Ukraine

[River Don]

Uh oh,

Erdogan says Turkey will limit Russian access to the Black Sea. How do they propose to do that???

And let's not forget Turkey is a NATO member. Erdogan apparently isn't happy with the western response. Not robust enough for his liking...

[DRFC_TID_93]

Uh oh,

Erdogan says Turkey will limit Russian access to the Black Sea. How do they propose to do that???

And let's not forget Turkey is a NATO member. Erdogan apparently isn't happy with the western response. Not robust enough for his liking...

Turkey own the straits around its country which Russia use to access the Black Sea. They have legal rights to close the straits during times of war, it wouldn't stop Russian ships returning to Russia via the straits, but would stop Russia send further ships through to Ukraine

[River Don]

Uh oh,

Erdogan says Turkey will limit Russian access to the Black Sea. How do they propose to do that???

And let's not forget Turkey is a NATO member. Erdogan apparently isn't happy with the western response. Not robust enough for his liking...

Turkey own the straits around its country which Russia use to access the Black Sea. They have legal rights to close the straits during times of war, it wouldn't stop Russian ships returning to Russia via the straits, but would stop Russia send further ships through to Ukraine

Right. And Russia says we're coming through anyway... What does Turkey do then?

[normal rules]

They may be able to prevent ships entering the med under the 1936 convention, but it won’t be allowed to stop ships returning to base in the Black Sea.
Turkey relies very heavily on Russian Imports so will have to play this card very very carefully. Especially as they are NATO members.

[River Don]

Finland, Russia's neighbour are going to break their policy of not sending weapons to war zones and supply rifles, ammo and antitank launchers to Ukraine.

The danger of this war escalating grows with each hour.

[River Don]

Ukraine are offering Russian soldiers full amnesty and CASH to surrender.

Never heard of anything likes this before.

[BobG]

Ukraine elected a comedian. And got a leader. We elected a leader. And got a comedian.

[DonnyOsmond]

Ukraine elected a comedian. And got a leader. We elected a leader. And got a comedian.

Ours isn't very funny though.

[Bentley Bullet]

Some of us wanted Abbott and Corbyn - We'd have been better with Abbott and Costello.

[BobG]

Erdogan has a lot of previous with Putin. He's been badly bullied more than once.  I  suspect revenge might be a motive here. Bloody dangerous if so.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just got back from a pro-Ukraine rally in Sheffield. Amazing turn out given that it was freezing and lashing down. Some humbling stories from speakers trying to contact family back home. And one inspiring Ukraining bloke speaking with barely suppressed anger, imploring people to write to MPs demanding that immigration restrictions be dropped to allow people in.

It's up to us if we care enough. Or we could just accept Patel saying "No". On behalf of a country that gave her parents succour when they needed it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Some of us wanted Abbott and Corbyn - We'd have been better with Abbott and Costello.

Well done. You've surpassed yourself again.

Nothing to offer on the biggest crisis in Europe in 75 years. Just more political point scoring. You must be very proud of yourself.

[BillyStubbsTears]

How many of us would be as brave as this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348

[Bentley Bullet]

Some of us wanted Abbott and Corbyn - We'd have been better with Abbott and Costello.

Well done. You've surpassed yourself again.

Nothing to offer on the biggest crisis in Europe in 75 years. Just more political point scoring. You must be very proud of yourself.

Have you read BobG's post, you clown?

[Filo]

Erdogan has a lot of previous with Putin. He's been badly bullied more than once.  I  suspect revenge might be a motive here. Bloody dangerous if so.

BobG

I’m sure Turkey shot down a Russian war plane a few years ago

[normal rules]

The international criminal court are opening an investigation citing they believe a threshold has been passed for them to consider war crimes.

[normal rules]

Putin will be the next saddam. Found hunkered down in an Eastern Siberian village cellar somewhere in years to come.

[Filo]

How many of us would be as brave as this?

https://mobile.twitter.com/GirkinGirkin/status/1498361635605561348

Probably  most of us given it was un crewed and being towed by a tractor

[wilts rover]

Interesting that the kleptocrats have started coming out calling for peace.

Deripaska, Lebedev, Friedman, all saying this has to stop.

Is it virtue signalling, or are they going (or are they even able) to put pressure on Putin.

I'll be honest, I still don't really know if Putin controls the kleptocrats, or they control him.

Bit of both. No one makes money in Russia without the permission of Putin (they have to give a certain percentage to him like a proper gangsta organisation). But it is they who actually control and launder the money for him, hold regional political posts etc, so it is they who keep him in power. Once it starts hurting them personally...

[wilts rover]

Based on the conversation Macron has had with mad vlad today I’d do this.
Tell him NATO and EU guarantee Ukraine’s neutrality. Stop the war as a result.
Wait till he croaks it and then move the goalposts.
Bide time, save lives.

Putin isn't interested in Ukraine being neutral. He doesn't believe Ukraine should exist as a country - he wants it to be part of greater Russia. He said so last week.

[wilts rover]

Uh oh,

Erdogan says Turkey will limit Russian access to the Black Sea. How do they propose to do that???

And let's not forget Turkey is a NATO member. Erdogan apparently isn't happy with the western response. Not robust enough for his liking...

Turkey own the straits around its country which Russia use to access the Black Sea. They have legal rights to close the straits during times of war, it wouldn't stop Russian ships returning to Russia via the straits, but would stop Russia send further ships through to Ukraine

Right. And Russia says we're coming through anyway... What does Turkey do then?

Sink a couple of old cargo wrecks in the shipping lane.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Some of us wanted Abbott and Corbyn - We'd have been better with Abbott and Costello.

Well done. You've surpassed yourself again.

Nothing to offer on the biggest crisis in Europe in 75 years. Just more political point scoring. You must be very proud of yourself.

Have you read BobG's post, you clown?

Yes. And he's also contributed to the wider debate. You have given zero.

[BobG]

BB. I really do admire your wit, your panache and your conviction. But this is a little bit serious man.  Please. Give over, on this thread at least, from the point scoring. I know you will now point to my humorous post 696 above as the very same thing. But it isn't.  It really isn't.  It makes a deadly, deadly serious point about the inadequacies of our 'leader' now on display to the entire world. I tried to make it humorous to highlight the message. You have now reinforced that very point with your ill timed and ill considered response

BobG

[BobG]

BB. Another point. As you know I am in Colombia. Although my Spanish isn't  the best, almost every time I meet someone for long enough to have a conversation, they raise the subject of BJ. And then they laugh their heads off. I am not lying here BB. I am British just like you. I try to defend this country.  And then I get laughed at too. Boris Johnson is nothing more than a great big, fat joke here.

How can you defend what is patently indefensible???

BobG

[Bentley Bullet]

Some of us wanted Abbott and Corbyn - We'd have been better with Abbott and Costello.

Well done. You've surpassed yourself again.

Nothing to offer on the biggest crisis in Europe in 75 years. Just more political point scoring. You must be very proud of yourself.

Have you read BobG's post, you clown?

Yes. And he's also contributed to the wider debate. You have given zero.

I don't go out of my way to offer an opinion on here so much these days, other than to comment when the inevitable political point-scoring presents its ugly face.
........... And when it does, and I respond, YOU accuse ME of it!
..........Another inevitability!

[Bentley Bullet]

BB. I really do admire your wit, your panache and your conviction. But this is a little bit serious man.  Please. Give over, on this thread at least, from the point scoring. I know you will now point to my humorous post 696 above as the very same thing. But it isn't.  It really isn't.  It makes a deadly, deadly serious point about the inadequacies of our 'leader' now on display to the entire world. I tried to make it humorous to highlight the message. You have now reinforced that very point with your ill timed and ill considered response

BobG

And I was making a deadly, deadly serious point about the inadequacies of what the alternative would have been in Corbyn and Abbott.

[BobG]

You really can't even see an olive branch can you BB?

BobG

[scawsby steve]

BobG,

We all know what a clown Johnson is, but what on Earth has that to do with what's happening in Ukraine?

[Bentley Bullet]

You really can't even see an olive branch can you BB?

BobG

It's called conviction, Bob.

[BobG]

But your position is hypothetical  It was, and is, impossible for those two to lead any government. Whereas rhe point of my post above is that we really do have a comedian leading rhis country now. You comment on fantasies BB. The rest of the contributors to this thread comment on realities.

BobG