Ukraine

[SydneyRover]

If I post something from a major usually reliable source I expect it to be correct and looking at when it was produced it pretty much was, my other grave error of course was the curtain fiasco and I did hold my hands up, but as you must remember well the matter under discussion was johnson and him breaking the law to which he been totally dishonest about and misled parliament so under the circumstances .........................

[BillyStubbsTears]

That's good to know gloster, I've never claimed to be perfect but so many expect me to be just that.

People would prefer you to check that what you post is actually correct before you jump in and post it

Given that you uncritically posted tweets on this matter from the FCO, you might want to go and have a look at the source of their figures.

https://t.co/t7qq0siQg5

Have a gander at how few of those entities have been sanctioned this year.

The overwhelming majority are ones from the 2014 invasion.

Hint: For each entry, look at the "Listed On:" date.

[SydneyRover]

''Russian oligarchs suspected of having links to Vladimir Putin could have their UK assets seized even before the British authorities have completed formal steps to impose sanctions, under far-reaching plans tabled for debate in parliament on Monday.

The move – put forward in an amendment to the economic crime bill by former Tory cabinet minister David Davis and backed by a cross-party group of MPs – would, if passed, amount to the toughest action yet to clamp down on illicit Russian cash in the UK.

On Friday the government made a number of moves to toughen the UK sanctions regime after widespread criticism that it has been slower to act than the EU and the US.

Undermining Boris Johnson’s claim that the UK has been leading the way on sanctions, ministers agreed that changes will be made to the economic crime bill to allow the UK to impose sanctions on any individual who has already been targeted by the EU or US''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/mps-seeking-fast-track-freeze-on-oligarchs-assets-before-formal-sanctions

[tyke1962]

''Russian oligarchs suspected of having links to Vladimir Putin could have their UK assets seized even before the British authorities have completed formal steps to impose sanctions, under far-reaching plans tabled for debate in parliament on Monday.

The move – put forward in an amendment to the economic crime bill by former Tory cabinet minister David Davis and backed by a cross-party group of MPs – would, if passed, amount to the toughest action yet to clamp down on illicit Russian cash in the UK.

On Friday the government made a number of moves to toughen the UK sanctions regime after widespread criticism that it has been slower to act than the EU and the US.

Undermining Boris Johnson’s claim that the UK has been leading the way on sanctions, ministers agreed that changes will be made to the economic crime bill to allow the UK to impose sanctions on any individual who has already been targeted by the EU or US''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/mps-seeking-fast-track-freeze-on-oligarchs-assets-before-formal-sanctions

Given the seriousness of this conflict and it's tentacles reaching our political system then why aren't Parliament sitting at the weekend .

Does this thing stop on a Friday afternoon and start again on Monday morning perhaps ?

Every day is vital , every hour is vital in these circumstances .

The bloody thing should have gone through last fecking weekend never mind this .

[wilts rover]

That's good to know gloster, I've never claimed to be perfect but so many expect me to be just that.

People would prefer you to check that what you post is actually correct before you jump in and post it

And that's a fair enough comment. In an age of disinformation its important to be as accurate as possible.

Which is why it is disappointing that it is impossible to find out exactly how many people/entities have been sanctioned. If Bloomberg can't find out then we are unlikely too. Anyone is free to make up there own mind up why this is.

What is abundantly clear is that it is not enough. The UK has laundered Putin's money for years. We are the source of the problem. Your bar chart showed that.

[Filo]

“ Putin signs new law to seize his own officials' money
Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law allowing funds to be seized from the bank accounts of officials if the sum of the deposits exceeded their declared incomes over three years and was shown to be illegal, state television said on Sunday.”



Turning on his own, it’s not going to end well for him I suspect

[DonnyBazR0ver]

BBC reporting from Russian sources that 3500 people arrested for demonstrating against the 'war'. Must have been a good turnout given the fear that Putin spread with the new law handing out 15 year sentences for spreading 'fake' news.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Brave, brave, brave folk.

[BillyStubbsTears]

We've known for years Putin's Russia was Orwellian in insisting that lies were truth.

Now it seems they are going full on Thought Police.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1500458582902460420

[wilts rover]

“ Putin signs new law to seize his own officials' money
Russian President Vladimir Putin signed a law allowing funds to be seized from the bank accounts of officials if the sum of the deposits exceeded their declared incomes over three years and was shown to be illegal, state television said on Sunday.”



Turning on his own, it’s not going to end well for him I suspect

That means he is running out of money to keep the war going. Interesting.

[River Don]

Russian special police are apparently stopping anyone out near significant sites asking to see their mobile phones. Anyone who refuses? Arrested.

Putin is very aware and frightened of popular dissent. I don't think he can stop the flow of information into the cities. These days it's like trying to stop the flow of water, it's always going to rain.

I've been trying to work out just why he has commited so heavily to this war. The best explanation I can find is Ukraine produces something like 12% of the worlds grain. Everything counts in large amounts. I think he wants that additional economic power.

[River Don]

If/when he shells Odessa it will not only be a crime against humanity, it will be a crime against culture too.

With each incremental step he is getting closer in infamy to Adolf Hitler.

[BillyStubbsTears]

1.5m refugees have left Ukraine.

How many visas do you think have been issued to allow refugees into the UK?

How about 50? One for every 30,000 refugees.

If you don't get disgusted at your own Govt for this, I'm struging to imagine what you wouldn't "meh" to.

[drfchound]

''Russian oligarchs suspected of having links to Vladimir Putin could have their UK assets seized even before the British authorities have completed formal steps to impose sanctions, under far-reaching plans tabled for debate in parliament on Monday.

The move – put forward in an amendment to the economic crime bill by former Tory cabinet minister David Davis and backed by a cross-party group of MPs – would, if passed, amount to the toughest action yet to clamp down on illicit Russian cash in the UK.

On Friday the government made a number of moves to toughen the UK sanctions regime after widespread criticism that it has been slower to act than the EU and the US.

Undermining Boris Johnson’s claim that the UK has been leading the way on sanctions, ministers agreed that changes will be made to the economic crime bill to allow the UK to impose sanctions on any individual who has already been targeted by the EU or US''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/06/mps-seeking-fast-track-freeze-on-oligarchs-assets-before-formal-sanctions

Excellent news.

[Ldr]

1.5m refugees have left Ukraine.

How many visas do you think have been issued to allow refugees into the UK?

How about 50? One for every 30,000 refugees.

If you don't get disgusted at your own Govt for this, I'm struging to imagine what you wouldn't "meh" to.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-invasion-extra-100-000-people-will-be-able-to-seek-sanctuary-in-uk-priti-patel-announces-12554193

But don’t let facts get in the way of BST doing his usual misleading people to make a political attack

[Ldr]

I should add I don’t know why you do it Billy, this government is despicable enough for you to attack legitimately

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Ldr. So I'll spell it out in f**king big letters.

There is a humanitarian disaster occuring NOW! Our government HAS GIVEN 50 visas.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Whilst you lot go all political again  there's a war on!

BST, are you forcing Ukrainian refugees to come here against their will? They have a choice of where they want to go and you can understand why the majority want to be nearer their own country and their loved ones, praying they can go back ASAP.

Meanwhile, first vids of protests in Russia now coming out.

https://youtu.be/fa8xPVRR2l4

[River Don]

Whilst you lot go all political again  there's a war on!

BST, are you forcing Ukrainian refugees to come here against their will? They have a choice of where they want to go and you can understand why the majority want to be nearer their own country and their loved ones, praying they can go back ASAP.

Meanwhile, first vids of protests in Russia now coming out.

https://youtu.be/fa8xPVRR2l4

I'm sorry Baz but this is b*llocks.

There are many people in the UK with links to Ukraine who want to open their homes to Ukrainian refugees.

But they are being prevented by officious rules being enforced by this government.

I voted for Brexit, one reason was because I wanted our government to have control of the borders. That does not mean I want the government to always say no at the border. I want them to decide.

In this case I want them to decide to allow Ukrainian refugees in. As I want them to honour our commitment to Hong Kong.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Of course I'm not "forcing all Ukrainians to come here." What I'm saying is that the EU is allowing refugees to settle wherever on the continent is most appropriate. Without visas. Without applications.

We are making it far, far more difficult. And we have so far accepted 50 people out of 1.5m refugees. And there are multiple stories of us having turned people away at the border. Including one 74 year old widow whose daughter is in London, who was told at Paris airport that she wouldn't be allowed into the UK, but would have to stay in France, where she knew no-one and spoke not a word of the language.

There are stories of refugees making it to Calais, only to find there is no visa office there so they cannot travel to meet up with UK based family.

It is all so unnecessary, but so typically, nastily ungenerous of this Home Secretary, whose family was given refuge in this country when they were chucked out of Uganda 50 years back.

[Ldr]

I'm not sure what you're getting at Ldr. So I'll spell it out in f**king big letters.

There is a humanitarian disaster occuring NOW! Our government HAS GIVEN 50 visas.

And I’ll spell it out, you want ppl to believe that restricts us taking in refugees so you can make political capital

[BillyStubbsTears]

And THAT, Ldr, sums up how rotten to the core any discussion is. Genuine, gut felt criticisms of national policy can be just dismissed because of the supposed political views of the person making the criticisms.

No effort to actually engage with the substantive issue. Just a "you have an agenda" dismissal.

Actually though you ARE right. I DO have an agenda. I want us to be run by politicians who have a shred of f**king morality and responsibility about them. Since you think they are all the same anyway, you yawn and turn your back while we are showing the nasty, vindictive side of our nature to the world on this issue.

[Ldr]

And THAT, Ldr, sums up how rotten to the core any discussion is. Genuine, gut felt criticisms of national policy can be just dismissed because of the supposed political views of the person making the criticisms.

No effort to actually engage with the substantive issue. Just a "you have an agenda" dismissal.

Actually though you ARE right. I DO have an agenda. I want us to be run by politicians who have a shred of f**king morality and responsibility about them. Since you think they are all the same anyway, you yawn and turn your back while we are showing the nasty, vindictive side of our nature to the world on this issue.

I refer you to post #1065

You are above misleading

[River Don]

I just want our government to be decent f**king human beings. Is it too much to ask for?

I'm not interested I political principles, ideology or point scoring. I want us to do the decent thing.

This is a very imperfect world and I think we have to understand this. There are no perfect solutions or ideal ways of doing things. We must always adapt. That is the great strength of humanity. It's ability to adapt.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And *I* refer you to the fact that whatever Patel claims a) we are still requiring refugees to apply for visas b) we are frequently making it impossible for them to do so and c) We have accepted only 50 refugees into the country so far whe the rest of the EU is dealing with 1.5m.  The last one being my original point.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Amen RD.

There is no excuse whatsoever for us not waiving visa requirements for anyone with a Ukraine passport.

[Ldr]

And *I* refer you to the fact that whatever Patel claims a) we are still requiring refugees to apply for visas b) we are frequently making it impossible for them to do so and c) We have accepted only 50 refugees into the country so far whe the rest of the EU is dealing with 1.5m.  The last one being my original point.

Since your so fond of them Billy I'll throw you an analogy, from a post on the main board recently where a child had been hit by the ball in shooting practice.

What you have just done is come on here expressing complete outrage about a child getting hit

And neglected to give the full picture about the fuss made, shirt given etc

You have moved from balanced commentator to having more spin than any Tory politician or back in the day Mandleson, everything is written via a prism of emotion not fact

[BillyStubbsTears]

I've presented 4 facts.

1.5million Ukrainians are now refugees. We've given 50 of them visas. There are 27 countries in Europe giving them visa free access. We refuse to be one of those.

Now, you are within your rights to do your usual "meh" and say "who really cares? We'll all die one day."

Me? I have higher standards for my country.

[tyke1962]

We have to treat this conflict on its own merits and welcome every Ukrainian refugee with open arms .

If the current genocide doesn't convince you then I don't really know what to say in all honesty .

My position is this , letting any Tom Dick and Harry in to this country is another debate altogether .

The Ukrainian refugees need shelter  , hope and a future and we need to step up considerably .

It is what it is .

[rich1471]

People are trying to escape a war ,not to just allow them into the country is a disgrace and make me embarrassed to be English at times ,in Poland people are inviting them into there homes to live with them so they have a roof over their heads and leaving pushchairs at railway stations for people with children to use,this is not the fault of Ukrainian people we should be doing what ever is needed to help no IFS no but.