Ukraine

[River Don]

I think the time is past now for Putin to be able to climb down, early on there was talk of looking at the Minsk agreement again.

Now he's too invested. Too much money, too many lives. He needs something to show for it.

[BobG]

Agreed RD. And that is the problem the West seems to be completely ignoring.
He has no way out except  'victory'.

So if he's going to die anyway it's not much of a problem, is it, to take out the opposition at the same time? This is the guy who has said publicly that he learned a huge life lesson from seeing what that cornered rat did all those years ago and who thinks the world has no right to exist without a pre-eminent Russia in it...

Has he been bluffing for 20 years? Do you wanna take the chance?

BobG

[SydneyRover]

So perhaps the Ukraine AF isn’t particularly active right now.

yes, limited capacity due to loss of planes and russia attempting to knock out all of its airports.

[Colin C No.3]

Still my fave plane though Filo. I got to watch the Russian pilots skid them all over the sky, tail slides included, about half a mile from my house for over 10 years. Fuel thirsty, noisy, polluting, not much electronics, but what a plane! I love 'em!

In fact, thinking about it the Ukrainians used to send 'em over too.

BobG

I can’t think of a more inappropriate post on such a thread.

Can’t you, filo & chums start another thread along the lines of “Two little boy’s had two little toys…..”?

[Sprotyrover]

Ha I see the US is hurting on banning Russian Oil, Petrol gone up to a whopping £2.30 a Gallon! Meanwhile Heating Oil here is £1.32 a litre gone up from 52 p a litre last September!

[BobG]

Colin.

Admiring a technical achievement of an enemy is not treason. It is a recognition of something that was once extremely admirable.

I try to keep my eyes open. I don't believe in the ostrich spproach

BobG

[Colin C No.3]

He’s not going to ‘climb down’ from this.

He has no ‘threat’ from any other possible leader in Russia.

The majority of the Russian people have ‘swallowed’ his propaganda spewed out constantly by RT.

The West won’t (& shouldn’t) ‘engage him directly’ in Ukraine, he would love that ‘excuse’ to bolster his ‘fake news’ at home & push his agenda to it’s ‘natural conclusion’ & turn his attentions to the Baltic States within NATO after finishing the Ukraine resistance off with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

After Ukraine, he has nowhere else to go. He knows his actions have already turned the West against him in a way he clearly underestimated. The sanctions will bite ever deeper into the Russian economy (despite the dragging feet feet of Bozo & Pritti Pathetic) & make Russia a pariah for decades to come.

He’s 70. For him it’s s**t or bust time. He holds the dice.

[SydneyRover]

''Vladimir Putin’s biggest mistake of the Ukraine war so far? Trusting the Western financial system''

''Over the seven years since Putin last invaded Ukraine (and annexed Crimea) in 2014, Russia's central bank has almost doubled its holdings of foreign currency and foreign bonds and gold, building up a reserve of US$630 billion at a considerable cost to the living standards of ordinary Russians.

It was a war chest that would enable Russia to continue to buy things that could only be bought in foreign currency, even if customers overseas refused to trade with it and supply it with that currency. It was Russia's insurance policy.

And although it could have been stored in Russia, much of it was kept in banks in the UK, Western Europe and the US, for easy access when it was needed to buy things on those markets.

Whatever his other suspicions of the West, Putin seemed to think its financial system wouldn't be turned off — not to a nation of Russia's size''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-09/putin-ukraine-russia-war-financial-system-sanctions/100892980

[BobG]

What a great man President Zelensky is.
.
If, when, this is over, he survives, he will be on the way to becoming more than Lech Walesa (I think I've  misspelled that. Apologies Lech), more than Vaclav Havel. He could end up being as near deified as only two such colossi have achieved in my 60 odd years on this planet.

What a man. I am in awe.

BobG

[River Don]

Agreed RD. And that is the problem the West seems to be completely ignoring.
He has no way out except  'victory'.

So if he's going to die anyway it's not much of a problem, is it, to take out the opposition at the same time? This is the guy who has said publicly that he learned a huge life lesson from seeing what that cornered rat did all those years ago and who thinks the world has no right to exist without a pre-eminent Russia in it...

Has he been bluffing for 20 years? Do you wanna take the chance?

BobG

He does have reasons not to take the opposition away with him, if that means the nuclear threat. He does have family, he does have daughters.

[SydneyRover]

In a nutshell

''https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-60668779''

come on Britain, don't allow Australia's similar pathetic response to refugees win out.

''Ukrainians could arrive in Australia from this weekend with government issuing 1,000 visas''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-03-03/more-than-1-000-visas-approved-for-ukrainians-coming-australia/100880278

[BobG]

I guess so RD. But groupthink must be rampant in the Kremlin. That's a wierd beast. He could (though I'm not saying he is) think he is saving them from a fate worse than death. My anecdote in the Gas Prices thread (No. 140) about NPower showed how just how farcical and counter logical decisions can be when under pressure and in an enclosed bubble. It's a possibility.

Another example was BT's bid for its 3G licenses. The focus was 'beat Vodafone'. Cabinet War Rooms, daily briefings to the Chief Exec. High powered actuaries, accountants, marketing blokes, strategic thinkers.  The works. In the end BT did well out of the auctions. Until it had to pay the bill. The company didnt have the money. That led to the Chief Exec being removed and the forced sale of Yellow Pages for well over a billion. No small mistake that... It badly affected profitability for ages and the balance sheet permanently. All the economic ratios went into a long lasting tailspin too. And that materially depressed the share price for a long time too.

Groupthink. Forget the bleeding obvious

BobG

[Donnywolf]

Ha I see the US is hurting on banning Russian Oil, Petrol gone up to a whopping £2.30 a Gallon! Meanwhile Heating Oil here is £1.32 a litre gone up from 52 p a litre last September!

Meanwhile here the numbers on Petrol station Forecourts spin like Las Vegas Fruit Machines - while some " Bandit" petrol station operators claim their boards are broken so they dont put people off coming in

[BigH]

Ha I see the US is hurting on banning Russian Oil, Petrol gone up to a whopping £2.30 a Gallon! Meanwhile Heating Oil here is £1.32 a litre gone up from 52 p a litre last September!

Meanwhile here the numbers on Petrol station Forecourts spin like Las Vegas Fruit Machines - while some " Bandit" petrol station operators claim their boards are broken so they dont put people off coming in

Just driving around locally at the weekend I noticed a 25p/litre price differential on diesel between forecourts. How can that be?

[Filo]

Ha I see the US is hurting on banning Russian Oil, Petrol gone up to a whopping £2.30 a Gallon! Meanwhile Heating Oil here is £1.32 a litre gone up from 52 p a litre last September!

Meanwhile here the numbers on Petrol station Forecourts spin like Las Vegas Fruit Machines - while some " Bandit" petrol station operators claim their boards are broken so they dont put people off coming in

Just driving around locally at the weekend I noticed a 25p/litre price differential on diesel between forecourts. How can that be?

Because some are profiteering by upping the price of old stock, and some are waiting for the new stock before increasing prices

[KeithMyath]

I paid 63p 2 weeks ago per litre of heating oil it's now £1.76;from the same company. It's reported that Russia sovereign debt is imminently about to drop to level D after going to C. B is classed as junk, D is classed as default. Bankrupt. It's pretty scary to see the effect of economics on a sovereign nation, thank God we didn't vote to remove that protection by leaving EU.. oh wait a minute

[BillyStubbsTears]

The f**king gall of this woman.

https://mobile.twitter.com/pritipatel/status/1501326628328071171

22000 visa applications from desperate, frightened people. 250/day being processed.

She doesn't f**king represent me. Nor the many principled Tory MPs who are up in arms about this.

[Ldr]

I’d be embarrassed to be represented by her

[BobG]

Which cretins elected her??

BobG

[Colin C No.3]

Which cretins elected her??

BobG

The constituants of Whitham in Essex.

[wilts rover]

Well Zelensky channelled Churchill and Shakespeare but he's not going to get his no fly zone.

And realistically I don't think we can even give him jet fighters because I don't think the Poles want to put their country in the direct firing line.

I think the push should be to get more of those drones that the Turks seem very willing to supply.

You may wish to re-think that RD given the news just announced - Poland to give all its MIG-29's, free of charge, to Ukraine and encourages all other NATO/EU countries with MIG's to do the same. US to backfill as required (presumably with US pilots initally until Polish are trained up.

Well that's a post which hasn't aged well - unfortunately and annoyingly.

Apparently it's nothing to do with the capacity of the Ukraine Air Force - it was their government who asked for them - it's the Americans who dont wish to be involved, presumably so as not to give Putin an excuse to say they have 'escalated' their involvement out of fear of reprisals.

Same reason the Poles wont provide them directly.

Neither government looking good their imho.

[albie]

Priti Patel.......the sort of person who would unplug your life support machine, in order to charge her mobile!

The incredible smirk in a nutshell!

[DRFCSouth]

Spray the jets in Ukrainian colours. Switch off the transponder & fly very low level over the border. Job done.

[albie]

Not just Patel, mind.

The UK is a pariah now on the matter of refugees;
https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1501487986957066240

A consensus of shame!

[drfchound]

Not just Patel, mind.

The UK is a pariah now on the matter of refugees;
https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1501487986957066240

A consensus of shame!

I wonder who they represent then.

[Not Now Kato]

Maria Butina, a member of the Russian Duma, on the Today Programme this morning.  Her interview, which is seriously worth listening to, starts around 1hour 50 minutes in....
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m00154cl
 
This is what the brainwashed, (and it demonstrates how the brainwashing propaganda is pushed), believe in Russia!  Ukraine, bombing their own cities, really?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Don't you just wish the Russian military would down tools and walk out of Ukraine, realising they've bitten off more than they can chew!

Heard reports that Belarus have backed out following resignations of their top military brass, so will not be coming to Putins aid.

You wonder if Putin will play silly games with the nuclear power plants and threaten to cut off the power and cooling systems, on the basis that if he can't have Ukraine, nobody else can.

An alleged leaked report coming out of Moscow suggests his advisors have told him, if he can't drag NATO into the war, they're f*cked and can't win.

[BobG]

He could easily get NATO in the war if he wants to. Send a battalion across a couple of borders so it can't be excused as an 'accident' and he'd be almost there.

BobG

[normal rules]

A leaked FSB report, unverified, but trusted as legit by ex fsb officers, claims Putins war has already failed.
My concern is if this is true, then how on earth will Putin come out of this with any scrap of integrity. With his own people. The proverbial captain on his sinking ship. The one he scuttled himself.
Millions of Russian youngsters now going to be deprived of western tech. No access to the www. Fast food outlets closing everywhere. Travel opportunities crushed . A black hole of an economy. Lost fathers,  brothers, uncles and sons to a needless conflict.
A country with so many land borders with Europe, shutting down.
An island. Distanced in every way shape and form of modern life as they know it.
Desolate.
Desperate.
Putins own words “ a world without Russia would not be worth living in “

This is what scares me the most. The cornered rat scenario.

[River Don]

He could easily get NATO in the war if he wants to. Send a battalion across a couple of borders so it can't be excused as an 'accident' and he'd be almost there.

BobG

Somehow I don't think he will entertain ideas of widening this conflict anymore. He can see how his military is performing in Ukraine, how long would his army last against combined high tech NATO forces?

He'd be waving the nuclear button around by the afternoon.