Ukraine

[SydneyRover]

I have a confidence that we have people within the service that are attempting to or have already cultivated relationships with persons who are siloviki.
The highest level of espionage.
Agents within the Kremlin close to the inner circle.
It’s something the UK have always been very good at.
Mi6 will have an awareness of what’s going to happen before it actually does.
They may even be in a position to steer and influence.
A lot of talk of Russian influence in London, but trust me, this works both ways.
We may not have uk billionaires owning great swathes of Moscow, but we will have something far, far more valuable.
Influential, powerful Russians on our payroll.

Maybe they should have told us about the invasion being planned. putin has had the banks build up their foreign currency reserves since Crimea to a massive level, noone joined the dots?

[drfchound]

I have a confidence that we have people within the service that are attempting to or have already cultivated relationships with persons who are siloviki.
The highest level of espionage.
Agents within the Kremlin close to the inner circle.
It’s something the UK have always been very good at.
Mi6 will have an awareness of what’s going to happen before it actually does.
They may even be in a position to steer and influence.
A lot of talk of Russian influence in London, but trust me, this works both ways.
We may not have uk billionaires owning great swathes of Moscow, but we will have something far, far more valuable.
Influential, powerful Russians on our payroll.

Maybe they should have told us about the invasion being planned. putin has had the banks build up their foreign currency reserves since Crimea to a massive level, noone joined the dots?

No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned.

[SydneyRover]

do you know for sure what day it is hound?

[drfchound]

do you know for sure what day it is hound?

Once again you prove you can’t engage in sensible conversation.

[normal rules]

Knowing something is going to happen is one thing.
Being in a position to do something about it is another.
Sometimes very high level intelligence simply cannot be acted on,  because to do so would put the source(s) at risk.
The British government spend huge amounts of money identifying, cultivating, acquiring and managing covert assets across the world . At all levels including government. They protect them to the enth degree. Even if it means sitting on very very significant intelligence.
Pick your fights. Timeliness.
It would not have gone un noticed that Russia was amassing foreign currency.
It was obviously deemed not necessary , justified or proportionate to react.
I am not privy of course to international levels of intelligence regarding Russia. But the process of international HUMINT gathering is exactly the same as Intel gathering that takes place covertly in every police force up and down the country at local level.
People in key positions who are motivated to share important information about those they work with and/or for. Recruited by those employed to harvest Intel on the given subject.
MI6 will have people in Russian government on the payroll.
Without doubt.
If they haven’t, then it would be pointless having an international security service.
We’ve been doing it for years.
They don’t stop wars. But they put the uk govt and others in a good position to be tactically and strategically aware of what’s coming.

[SydneyRover]

Are you saying that our intelligence force knew russia was readying for an invasion but didn't bother to tell us? they sure told everyone once the build up began.

[drfchound]

Knowing something is going to happen is one thing.
Being in a position to do something about it is another.
Sometimes very high level intelligence simply cannot be acted on,  because to do so would put the source(s) at risk.
The British government spend huge amounts of money identifying, cultivating, acquiring and managing covert assets across the world . At all levels including government. They protect them to the enth degree. Even if it means sitting on very very significant intelligence.
Pick your fights. Timeliness.
Unless you have been part of the Intel world, you perhaps would not understand this.
It would not have gone un noticed that Russia was amassing foreign currency.
It was obviously deemed not necessary , justified or proportionate to react.

This is exactly the point I was making NR.

[SydneyRover]

Knowing something is going to happen is one thing.
Being in a position to do something about it is another.
Sometimes very high level intelligence simply cannot be acted on,  because to do so would put the source(s) at risk.
The British government spend huge amounts of money identifying, cultivating, acquiring and managing covert assets across the world . At all levels including government. They protect them to the enth degree. Even if it means sitting on very very significant intelligence.
Pick your fights. Timeliness.
Unless you have been part of the Intel world, you perhaps would not understand this.
It would not have gone un noticed that Russia was amassing foreign currency.
It was obviously deemed not necessary , justified or proportionate to react.

This is exactly the point I was making NR.

And yet you just said this ................

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

[normal rules]

The whole intelligence gathering and espionage development scene around this conflict will be deliberate and calculated.
MI6 and CIA will be working 24/7.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey.

[drfchound]

Knowing something is going to happen is one thing.
Being in a position to do something about it is another.
Sometimes very high level intelligence simply cannot be acted on,  because to do so would put the source(s) at risk.
The British government spend huge amounts of money identifying, cultivating, acquiring and managing covert assets across the world . At all levels including government. They protect them to the enth degree. Even if it means sitting on very very significant intelligence.
Pick your fights. Timeliness.
Unless you have been part of the Intel world, you perhaps would not understand this.
It would not have gone un noticed that Russia was amassing foreign currency.
It was obviously deemed not necessary , justified or proportionate to react.

This is exactly the point I was making NR.

And yet you just said this ................

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

Yes it is very straight forward.

No one knew what the British Intelligence people knew.

I don’t think that the general public would have been privy to that information, do you think they would have been.

[SydneyRover]

The whole intelligence gathering and espionage development scene around this conflict will be deliberate and calculated.
MI6 and CIA will be working 24/7.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey.

You'd better take it up with hound, he says this

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

[SydneyRover]

hmmm ............... known knowns and unknown knowns

[drfchound]

The whole intelligence gathering and espionage development scene around this conflict will be deliberate and calculated.
MI6 and CIA will be working 24/7.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey.

You'd better take it up with hound, he says this

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

You are embarrassing yourself now SR.

[normal rules]

Richard Moore, head of MI6 stated last month that they knew that Russia had been planning this for months. They also knew of a Russian plot to have Zelensky assassinated.

[SydneyRover]

The whole intelligence gathering and espionage development scene around this conflict will be deliberate and calculated.
MI6 and CIA will be working 24/7.
Slowly slowly catchy monkey.

You'd better take it up with hound, he says this

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

You are embarrassing yourself now SR.

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''
Modify message

''This is exactly the point I was making NR''

[drfchound]

Richard Moore, head of MI6 stated last month that they knew that Russia had been planning this for months. They also knew of a Russian plot to have Zelensky assassinated.

Sydney seems to think that that information should have gone out on News at Ten. 

[drfchound]

Are you saying that our intelligence force knew russia was readying for an invasion but didn't bother to tell us? they sure told everyone once the build up began.

.

Syd. You said the above. Do you think that the intelligence people should have made this common knowledge.

[SydneyRover]

Are you saying that our intelligence force knew russia was readying for an invasion but didn't bother to tell us? they sure told everyone once the build up began.

.

Syd. You said the above. Do you think that the intelligence people should have made this common knowledge.

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.
Do you know for sure that we didn’t know that an invasion was being planned''

[drfchound]

The question was directed to you, so do you or did you know?

[SydneyRover]

The question was directed to you, so do you or did you know?

''No one has any idea of what the UK intelligence people know or knew.

[SydneyRover]

hound

'See ya.  Waste of time.''

hooray

[SydneyRover]

''US and allies to deny 'most favoured nation' status to Russia, Biden says
President Joe Biden announced that the US, along with the G7 and European Union, will take steps to revoke the “most favoured nation” status designation to Russia, known as permanent normal trade relations in the US.

Biden said the move would hold the Russian president Vladimir Putin, “even more accountable for his aggression against Ukraine.”

the Guardian

How will Russia survive and for how long? where will they get their food and basic necessities from? Will china be able to sustain them to allow for a 'completion' of the invasion? (they will never fully control the Ukraine)

Russian imports of foodstuffs and agricultural raw materials amounted to nearly 34 billion U.S. dollars in 2021. Over the observed period, the highest figure was recorded at over 43 billion U.S. dollars in 2013. Between 2014 and 2015, the imports dropped by more than 13 billion U.S. dollars.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1006520/russia-foodstuffs-and-agricultural-imports/

[BillyStubbsTears]

Putin is now arresting (not sacking, arresting) leaders of the FSB for failed intel that led him to war.

As some smart folk have said, he went into this war completely misunderstanding what would happen. Now he's venting his wrath on his secret services.

I wonder what they are planning in return?

[BobG]

It might be worth reading my post about the Lusitania Syd. Post 33 in the DFP thread.

The whole point of secret services is just that. They are secret. In the case of the Lusitania for a helluva lot of people that secret still stands today - more than 100 years later. Of course they're not going to publicise more than is strategically useful. And in any event,  their role is principally to advise their polítical masters. What they  then do with the Intel is the question we should ALL be asking... I've made it plain times many that our polítical leaders were appraised of the nature of Putin 10 years ago and more.

It is polítics that has led us to where we are today. Not secret services.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

It might be worth reading my post about the Lusitania Syd. About 1340 from memory.

The whole point of secret services is just that. They are secret. In the case of the Lusitania for a helluva lot of people that secret still stands today - more than 100 years later. Of course they're not going to publicise mire than is strategically useful. And in any evento, their role is principally yo sdvifse their poitical masters. What they do with the Intel is the question we should ALL be asking... Ive Made it plain times many that our polítical leaders were appraised of the nature of Putin 10 years ago and more.
.It is política that has les us tov where we are today. Not secret services.

BobG

I did read your comment and am fully across the role of the service. If you look at the comments above it looks as though some appear to want to claim insider knowledge rather than what is gleaned from the papers. My point is if the service were fully across all this information, why wasn't it passed onto the government? more likely they did know and did pass it on and are exposed yet again as lazy, greedy and incompetent and have to be dragged kicking and screaming into properly helping refugees and sanctioning their sponsors. As you say or imply all this should have been ready to go not death by a thousand cuts.

As with my comment before same thread asking why these oligarchs are now being sanctioned, because nothing has changed in the past couple of weeks, they have been aiding and abetting a dictator and murderer. 

[BobG]

Sorry Syd. I haven't a clue what you are on about. But please just bear in mind thst the principal function of all 3 of Britain,'s secret services is to inform and advise our politicians.  With occasional exceptions they are extremely good at it.

You have no grounds whatever to rubbish what they have done wrt Putin. In fact, I'll tell you. You are plain wrong. It is polítics, not spies, that has brought us to where we are today

BobG

[SydneyRover]

It might be worth reading my post about the Lusitania Syd. About 1340 from memory.

The whole point of secret services is just that. They are secret. In the case of the Lusitania for a helluva lot of people that secret still stands today - more than 100 years later. Of course they're not going to publicise mire than is strategically useful. And in any evento, their role is principally yo sdvifse their poitical masters. What they do with the Intel is the question we should ALL be asking... Ive Made it plain times many that our polítical leaders were appraised of the nature of Putin 10 years ago and more.
.It is política that has les us tov where we are today. Not secret services.

BobG

I did read your comment and am fully across the role of the service. If you look at the comments above it looks as though some appear to want to claim insider knowledge rather than what is gleaned from the papers. My point is if the service were fully across all this information, why wasn't it passed onto the government? more likely they did know and did pass it on and are exposed yet again as lazy, greedy and incompetent GOVERNMENT and have to be dragged kicking and screaming into properly helping refugees and sanctioning their sponsors. As you say or imply all this should have been ready to go not death by a thousand cuts.

As with my comment before same thread asking why these oligarchs are now being sanctioned, because nothing has changed in the past couple of weeks, they have been aiding and abetting a dictator and murderer.

I don't want a 'forever' debate about this BG but if you could show where I rubbished them?

ah I had edited it and missed the word government out, apologies for any confusion.

[BobG]

Most of this page Syd

BobG

[SydneyRover]

A lot of blame for what the west is now facing rests squarely at the feet of this government that have refused to accept Russian interference and refuse to make inquiries about it, all the while accepting money for political gain and allowing wholesale laundering of proceeds through the British financial system which if is examined I would would think would dwarf what has been spent on property in London. (the latter is speculation)

Why wouldn't putin feel safe in scaling things up the mayor of london playing tennis for money with his henchmen?

A another point, why the government is confused, being urged on to do more about 'boat people' but now not doing enough, according to the UN convention on refugees which britain signed up to a refugee is a refugee.

[SydneyRover]

Most of this page Syd

BobG

Put simply, NR who knows all about the security services tells us we have men in putin's uppermost circles, therefore unless the security services exist for their own amusement must have passed all this forward to our government, therefore our government would know about all things russia from the invasion of Ukraine to dirty money and have sat on their hands and watched and waited for it to happen all the while doing nothing.

It's either one or the other.

''Party funding linked to Russia – how much have Tories benefited?''

''The industrialist Alexander Temerko, also a UK national, has donated £357,000 since Johnson took office. He is a minority shareholder and co-owner of a company called Aquind. Its majority investor is the Russian-born oil tycoon Viktor Fedotov.

Another big Tory donor in the Johnson era is the businessman Mohamed Amersi, who has given £258,000 over the period.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories