Ukraine

[wilts rover]

One thing is for certain. Conflicts like this are so huge in terms of information, that Putin simply cannot manage it alone.
That means he has to have trusted confidants at his Side advising and directing their next moves.
And the more people he has in this chain, the more people will get to know his intentions. And that is where the weak links are, that international intelligence agencies will be exploiting.
We may not get to what what is actually going on in his head. But he will be discussing his intentions with others. He has to. One man does not control the whole military effort of a huge nation such as Russia.

But why would Putin be directing the military operation? That's what he has military leaders and chief's of staff for. He has never served in the military himself or ever really be known to speak about campaigns or tatics.

He is a political leader with political objectives - wipe Ukraine off the map. Exactly how they do that he will have left to the military. Putin's not going to be moving tanks around or ordering bombers out - he is going to be looking for the scapegoats when they haven't done what they said they could do in the time.

Have you forgotten the Security Council Meeting he had when they all looked scared to death

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/22/the-personal-politics-of-putins-security-council-meeting-a76522

[SydneyRover]

For anyone looking to make political points, the Golden Visa scheme.

Following labours success in saving the UK economy from the Global Financial Crisis labour launched the Golden Visa Scheme to boost the economy and maintain the gains, it ran for no more than 18 months before the country elected Cameron, the scheme has run right up to the point where Russia started it's invasion of the Ukraine, that would have been 12 years in May.

[drfchound]

Cheers for answering my question Syd.
Most unusual of you, but thanks anyway.
So it was the Labour government who instigated it and it ran until they lost the 2010 GE.
I wonder whether it would have continued through the next decade had they won in 2010.

What do you think would have happened?

[wilts rover]

The Golden Visa scheme was actually launced by the Tories in 1994 - Labour justed widened the criteria of an existing scheme in 2008.

It's not the scheme per-se that has been the problem. It is the checks or lack-off, despite numerous warnings and promises by successive Tory governments.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/07/golden-visa-oligarch-super-rich-british-citizenship-global

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60348046

[BillyStubbsTears]

He did it in Grozny. But that didn't matter because it was jihadis in Asia.

He did it in Aleppo. But that didn't matter because it was jihadis in Asia.

He's doing it this very moment to blonde, white Europeans.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/satellite-images-show-fires-severe-damage-residential-buildings-mariupol-2022-03-12/
He is evilness personified.

[SydneyRover]

The Golden Visa scheme was actually launced by the Tories in 1994 - Labour justed widened the criteria of an existing scheme in 2008.

It's not the scheme per-se that has been the problem. It is the checks or lack-off, despite numerous warnings and promises by successive Tory governments.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/07/golden-visa-oligarch-super-rich-british-citizenship-global

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60348046

thanks wilts

[wilts rover]

Cheers for answering my question Syd.
Most unusual of you, but thanks anyway.
So it was the Labour government who instigated it and it ran until they lost the 2010 GE.
I wonder whether it would have continued through the next decade had they won in 2010.

What do you think would have happened?

Way back in the mists of page 7 - if Corbyn and McDonnell had got in they would have scrapped it along with introducing other anti-money laudering regulation

https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=283806.msg1141203#msg1141203

[SydneyRover]

''The Shadow Chancellor has today called on Philip Hammond to introduce six measures, including the “Oligarch Levy”, to strengthen the UK’s hand in imposing effective sanctions on Russia and breaking up secretive offshore financial networks used by the oligarchs''

''Labour’s six-point plan to take on the oligarchs:

“Oligarch Levy” to tax secret offshore purchases of UK residential property

“Magnitsky Clause” to apply sanctions against human rights abusers

Tighten “Politically Exposed Person” regime

Extend the beneficial ownership register for Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories and end anonymous trusts

Implement Unexplained Wealth Orders to confiscate illegally-obtained wealth

Resource Companies House to properly investigate dubious company registrations''

Thanks wilts, and yet they are all the same .............. hmmmm

[drfchound]

The Golden Visa scheme was actually launced by the Tories in 1994 - Labour justed widened the criteria of an existing scheme in 2008.

It's not the scheme per-se that has been the problem. It is the checks or lack-off, despite numerous warnings and promises by successive Tory governments.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/07/golden-visa-oligarch-super-rich-british-citizenship-global

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60348046

Cheers wilts, that is much more clearly explained.

[tyke1962]

''Johnson's government refused to release the report to the public before the general election in December 2019.[

The Prime Minister approved its release on 13 December 2019, the day after the general election''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_Security_Committee_Russia_report#:~:text=%22The%20Russia%20report%22%20is%20the,the%202014%20Scottish%20independence%20referendum.

Sydney I'm not going to even make a case for the fact the Tory Party is absolutely swimming in dirty Russian money .

The Russian money was called out years ago by Jeremy Corbyn and nobody listened .

My point is the left that I come from may not win elections but history tends to be on our side .

Dependency on imports , Scargill told you so .

We aren't electable but don't whinge to me .

it was you that posted this not five minutes ago Tyke?

''Unless you want the Russian way and elect a Labour government''

There are your Labour governments and there's mine Sydney which is where we differ .

Whilst you see a red rosette as everything is in order I seriously question that .

A point you continually prove the case .

I'm comfortable with my old school left wing views .

History cannot ever be re-written and the left have always told you what the possibilities were .

The prominent players told you so .

Electable , not a chance .

But there you are .

[SydneyRover]

''Johnson's government refused to release the report to the public before the general election in December 2019.[

The Prime Minister approved its release on 13 December 2019, the day after the general election''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_and_Security_Committee_Russia_report#:~:text=%22The%20Russia%20report%22%20is%20the,the%202014%20Scottish%20independence%20referendum.

Sydney I'm not going to even make a case for the fact the Tory Party is absolutely swimming in dirty Russian money .

The Russian money was called out years ago by Jeremy Corbyn and nobody listened .

My point is the left that I come from may not win elections but history tends to be on our side .

Dependency on imports , Scargill told you so .

We aren't electable but don't whinge to me .

it was you that posted this not five minutes ago Tyke?

''Unless you want the Russian way and elect a Labour government''

There are your Labour governments and there's mine Sydney which is where we differ .

Whilst you see a red rosette as everything is in order I seriously question that .

A point you continually prove the case .

I'm comfortable with my old school left wing views .

History cannot ever be re-written and the left have always told you what the possibilities were .

The prominent players told you so .

Electable , not a chance .

But there you are .

just in case it has slipped your mind we are discussing the Russian invasion of the Ukraine and the events that led to them having the confidence to think they would be virtually unopposed

[SydneyRover]

The uk doubled the size of its battle group in Estonia a full 8 days before Russia crossed the Ukrainian border.
Now, if you know how long it takes logistically and practically to get main battle tanks and all of their logistical support  across Europe, this was weeks in the planning. And started way way before February.

Agreed NR, but that shouldn't have precluded having a list of sanction targets at the ready to implement directly and for them to have clear lines of communications ready for the inevitable flood of refugees we know will result from a war of terror. Why did the government have to be urged and shamed into doing this?

And of course why do we have to put up with the constant lies from johnson about having the toughest sanctions when clearly this was untrue?

This is directed at anyone who cares to read and think about it.

[River Don]

£350 a month for a spare room for a refugee is surprisingly generous for this government.

Perhaps they are begining to grasp what a PR disaster this been.

[SydneyRover]

yes a surprising but good move RD

[BillyStubbsTears]

But as I've said before.

Start by requisitioning the penthouse flats in London that Russian kleptocrat Tory donors have bought as investments and that they keep empty.

What more symbolic action could a UK Govt take.

And don't come with the shite about property laws. Take the apartments. Give them to refugees. And challenge the kleptocrats to take legal action.

And if they do, change the law.

[SydneyRover]

But as I've said before.

Start by requisitioning the penthouse flats in London that Russian kleptocrat Tory donors have bought as investments and that they keep empty.

What more symbolic action could a UK Govt take.

And don't come with the shite about property laws. Take the apartments. Give them to refugees. And challenge the kleptocrats to take legal action.

And if they do, change the law.

Good point, no easier way to find out who the real owners are by commandeering them for the war effort, if noone claims them all well and good they can be converted into public housing over time.

[bpoolrover]

But as I've said before.

Start by requisitioning the penthouse flats in London that Russian kleptocrat Tory donors have bought as investments and that they keep empty.

What more symbolic action could a UK Govt take.

And don't come with the shite about property laws. Take the apartments. Give them to refugees. And challenge the kleptocrats to take legal action.

And if they do, change the law.

Good point, no easier way to find out who the real owners are by commandeering them for the war effort, if noone claims them all well and good they can be converted into public housing over time.

you could do that but how do you expect the refugees to run the expensive apartments, how will they pay the council tax ect.?

[SydneyRover]

Presumably the £350 per room/month could go direct to refugees or sell the properties and use the money to help pay for them.

[SydneyRover]

Warning this will make uncomfortable reading for some .............

''The Tories claim we are worse than we are – and it’s the Ukrainians who suffer''

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/12/tories-claim-we-are-worse-than-we-are-and-its-ukrainians-who-suffer

[wilts rover]

Leaked documents from Russian Army show invasion of Ukraine was approved on 18th January with plan for the campaign to last 2 weeks from 20th February to 6th March.

Its now Day 18/19 and the Russians are fighting a campaign they hadn't planned for. How long can that continue?

https://twitter.com/LatestAnonPress/status/1502763321463869441

[drfchound]

Leaked documents from Russian Army show invasion of Ukraine was approved on 18th January with plan for the campaign to last 2 weeks from 20th February to 6th March.

Its now Day 18/19 and the Russians are fighting a campaign they hadn't planned for. How long can that continue?

https://twitter.com/LatestAnonPress/status/1502763321463869441

Interesting though wilts that there are now leaked documents from the Russian Army.
Could some dissent now be coming along.

[SydneyRover]

Leaked documents from Russian Army show invasion of Ukraine was approved on 18th January with plan for the campaign to last 2 weeks from 20th February to 6th March.

Its now Day 18/19 and the Russians are fighting a campaign they hadn't planned for. How long can that continue?

https://twitter.com/LatestAnonPress/status/1502763321463869441

After a bit of a google this story first surfaced on the 2/3, which was a surprise as it didn't make headlines wilts. I would have though more would have been made of it then.

''Ukraine revealed secret battle plans left behind by Russian troops and claimed they show Russia planned a 15-day war''

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/ukraine-revealed-secret-battle-plans-left-behind-by-russian-troops-2022-3

[BillyStubbsTears]

The guy who runs Guido Fawkes tells us in his own words how he became mates with a Russian spy, and how he got funding from the Russian Embassy.
https://mobile.twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1502704515556024322

Which might be nothing.

Except...oh yeah.

When the journalist Carole Cadwalladr started digging into Russian influence in our elections, Guido suddenly started doing literally dozen of abusive hit jobs on her.

It's all happened in plain sight. We are too f**king stupid to realise it.

[Ldr]

So if the Tories are funded by the Russians, and Labour are funded by the Chinese (at least one is, more wouldn't surprise) WHO IS ACTUALLY WORKING FOR US?

[BillyStubbsTears]

ONE idiot in the Labour party took Chinese money. He's nowhere near the front bench and hopefully will be deselected.

The Tory party takes Russian money on an industrial scale. They run auctions for kleptocrats to buy dinner time with senior ministers. They take multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds donations.

But in some bone idle minds, the two are equal.

We probably don't have the sophistication to operate as a democracy.

[Ldr]

Billy chill, its an facetious observation. It does make you wonder though who is working for us and who is not

[BillyStubbsTears]

With respect, it is hardly the time for being facetious.

One of out major political parties has been in hock for a decade to kleptocrats from a country that is carpet bombing innocent civilians two and a half hours away. The other one is not. That is a bald fact.

One of our major parties is headed by a man who has very close social ties to the son of a KGB colonel, and has elevated him to the House of Lords. The other leader of a major party has no record of fraternising with powerful people from a hostile state. That is a bald fact.

At some point, people need to open their eyes and look at what is happening in plain view.

[wilts rover]

Leaked documents from Russian Army show invasion of Ukraine was approved on 18th January with plan for the campaign to last 2 weeks from 20th February to 6th March.

Its now Day 18/19 and the Russians are fighting a campaign they hadn't planned for. How long can that continue?

https://twitter.com/LatestAnonPress/status/1502763321463869441

Interesting though wilts that there are now leaked documents from the Russian Army.
Could some dissent now be coming along.

Lets hope so hound. I have read that the reason Belarus have yet to join in with any significant numbers is that when they were ordered to do so the soldiers refused to go and the officers had to be replaced by Russian ones:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/belarusalert/belarusian-military-reluctant-to-join-vladimir-putins-ukraine-war/

https://charter97.org/en/news/2022/3/5/457699/

[wilts rover]

From 2007 onwards the Russian government paid the Daily Telegraph (reputedly c£500000 per year) to run a more pro-Russian and anti-Europe line.

This included money to the star correspondent for the Telegraph, one Alexander Johnson, who began blaming the EU for the Russian invasion of Crimea.

Long thread here:

https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1502763923812065287

and here

https://twitter.com/archer_rs/status/1503004574604574721

[River Don]

I'm struggling to understand what this war is all about... Other than Vlads ego.

Basically Russia plays by the same rules as the west now. Only more corrupt. If that's the system Putin wants to promote he was having far more success and much more cheaply buying people off and paying bribes.