Ukraine

[Bentley Bullet]

The trouble is, Belton, these people think that because they can convince themselves they can convince others.

[drfchound]

And you know this how? Seriously. I really do want to know. If you are right  the evidence must be available because you are clearly relying on it. If there is none then I will trust what my eyes and ears tell me from the evidence in front of us rather than what would then be emotional blether.

BobG

It’s obvious to anyone who can watch the video impartially. You, and others, clearly can’t.

I don’t ever watch PMQs and have just had a look at the tweeted video clip for the first time.
It is obvious that something has been said which has caused people to laugh just before Sunak begins to speak. Johnson is obviously laughing about whatever was said before and the smirk is going as Sunak begins to speak about Ukraine.
It is noticeable that whoever put the clip on here cuts it before it goes any further.

[ravenrover]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

[Colin C No.3]

Just seen a photograph on the BBC website of the group of NATO heads of state assembling in Brussels for talks on Ukraine.

They all LOOK like heads of state ready for business….bar one.

Boris Johnson stands in the front row looking as though he has spent the night sleeping on a couch in the same clothes he is wearing. Don’t get me started about his hair, gut & ill fitting suit.

He makes Michael Foot look like Daniel Craig.

[SydneyRover]

fatigues?

[Colin C No.3]

fatigues?

Fattyguest?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

Yugoslavia fell apart because of long standing internal ethnic tensions.

Ukraine is being devastated by an external aggressor who would very much like to extend his sphere of influence.

The two are not remotely similar. I have absolutely no idea why you mention the EU and our membership in that context.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

[selby]

  Hound, as I remember it Johnson had just sat down when Sunack stood up after just pointing out to Starmer the Labour Party itself had Hired and Fired staff recently as P&O had who Starmer had criticized the government about.
  The mirth followed the shooting of his own foot.

[belton rover]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

Billy. Either respond to me directly or not at all.
You utter prick.

[BillyStubbsTears]

So on Tuesday night, I was off on a walk before bed in the hills on the suburbs of Sheffield. Listening to a podcast about the development of Putin's nuclear strategy which was going on about the Escalate to De-Escalate strategy.

When I saw this.

https://fireballs.imo.net/members/imo_view/event/2022/1959#photo_box

Not many times in my life I've had a "Oh f**k, this is it!" moment, but just for a fraction of a second..

[Filo]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

Billy. Either respond to me directly or not at all.
You utter prick.

You do realise that when you’re blocked he can only see your posts that have been quoted don’t you

[wilts rover]

  Hound, as I remember it Johnson had just sat down when Sunack stood up after just pointing out to Starmer the Labour Party itself had Hired and Fired staff recently as P&O had who Starmer had criticized the government about.
  The mirth followed the shooting of his own foot.

There was about 20 minutes between Johnson 'answering' questions from Starmer and Johnson sitting down after answering questiosn from other MP's.

I would post a link to the lies he told whilst answering those questions, but as it will have no effect on his sycophants who appear to like him because he is a liar, tho it easy to find.

[belton rover]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

Billy. Either respond to me directly or not at all.
You utter prick.

You do realise that when you’re blocked he can only see your posts that have been quoted don’t you

We’ve had this conversation before, Filo.

[Filo]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

Billy. Either respond to me directly or not at all.
You utter prick.

You do realise that when you’re blocked he can only see your posts that have been quoted don’t you

We’ve had this conversation before, Filo.

I know, just making sure you understand

[BillyStubbsTears]

Can you explain his re-action then BR, it looks shocking to me and if that is seen around The World what are they going to think

My first sentence says his reaction is embarrassing.
My point, Raven, is that it has nothing to do with this thread.
By all means, let’s have a ‘Johnson is an embarrassment’ thread, but this thread should not be used for such pathetic, agenda suiting posts.

But Rich-ie is talking about the struggle in Ukraine while this embarrasing childish behaviour is happening so how is it nothing to do with this thread? Or is it just a continuation of the feud between BST and yourself?

Is Belton getting himself up into a lather about political agendas again?

The "agenda" I had by posting the video was to point out that our PM is such an embarrassing waste of skin that he couldn't stop himself from gurning at the opposition benches even while Sunak was talking about Ukraine.

The whole speech was supposed to be a serious statement of where our economy is in a global crisis. We are in the worst situation in Europe for 75 years. Johnson's Chancellor was just starting to speak about Ukraine and Johnson is sat there like a fat ugly schoolkid f**king well GURNING!

He hasn't got the self control to even attempt to look statesmanlike.

Billy. Either respond to me directly or not at all.
You utter prick.

You do realise that when you’re blocked he can only see your posts that have been quoted don’t you

I've said times many on here that choosing to ignore a couple of people on here was the best thing I ever did. Here's a perfect example of why.

[belton rover]

All that pretending to ignore other people on here has done is allowed you to be vile, condescending and arrogant to others. And you are quite clearly not acting like it’s the best thing you ever did.
Unless becoming increasingly obnoxious by the day, to more and more people, makes you happy.

Filo, no need to quote this - Billy WILL be reading it.

[drfchound]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

[belton rover]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

[i_ateallthepies]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

[belton rover]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Is there such a thing as rational knowledge?
You see, Hound asked and Billy obliged.
No ‘previous’ request was involved.

But thanks for your input.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Seems like this thread has gone the way of all threads in here. On this of all topics.

[Branton Red]

Billy

With respect I'm going to terminate this conversation on my side re Brexit. As I've already explained I don't think it's appropriate on this thread*. It is simply incorrect to compare the EU with the actions of Putin's Russia in Ukraine or elsewhere from either end of the Brexit debate. * Apart from in the narrower context on ability/speed of putting sanctions in place.

Re Boris. Firstly I'm not an apologist for the man in general. His record and actions as PM are appalling in many areas. This includes his decision re the Russia report you highlight. However this is IMO a wild accusation at the democratically elected PM which needs to be challenged.

A rational explanation is that Boris was well aware of what the outcome of the enquiry would be i.e. Russia interfered to whatever degree to encourage UK citizens to vote Tory in 2019. If this was revealed in a high profile investigation it would be all over the press, would undermine the legitimacy of the Tory Government and give Labour a great big stick with which to beat the Tories with esp (as unfortunately has been the case) Putin behaved atrociously sometime in the future.

Therefore his actions, typical of him as a weak/disreputable individual, was to try to suppress this information from coming out.

This is a far more rational and plausible explanation which fits much better with the nature of the man.

[drfchound]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Seems like this thread has gone the way of all threads in here. On this of all topics.

Agreed Bst.
Look back to see where the change started.
Someone linked a tweet and suggested that Johnson was laughing about the situation in Ukraine.
The tweet was selectively started at a point where Johnson was laughing at what had just been said, then as he was smirking at whatever he had found funny, Sunak began talking about Ukraine.
Johnson stopped smiling and suddenly the clip was ended.
It as engineered very well as a put down and you couldn’t see through that, or wilfully knew what it was about anyway, and decided to use it to further politicise the thread, this thread of all others, to suit your own anti government agenda.
It is so obvious to see.
Some posters have repeatedly asked others to stop politicising the thread but some others choose not to listen.

[Branton Red]

All good points Branton.

And here's another nonsene conspiracy theory from the former UK Defence Attache to the Kremlin in the papers today. Saying that they warned the government about Putin years ago but the chose to ignore them because they valued the Russian money coming into Londongrad (and the Tory Party's pockets) more:

https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1506539085669748744/photo/1

MI5/the security service dont conspire to remove Tory prime ministers btw, only Labour ones. They have a long history of that.

Thanks Wilts. Re your link I don't view this as conspiracy at all. The West in total inc the UK have turned too much of a blind eye to Putin's behaviour pre the Ukraine invasion and continued to trade with Russia and therefore support the Russian Government/military whether UK banks or German energy companies.

UK banks sadly have a long history of accepting business from foul individuals from despotic regimes who have enriched themselves at the cost of their citizens - not just those from Russia either. Hopefully this will now change - though I shan't hold my breath.

[drfchound]

All good points Branton.

And here's another nonsene conspiracy theory from the former UK Defence Attache to the Kremlin in the papers today. Saying that they warned the government about Putin years ago but the chose to ignore them because they valued the Russian money coming into Londongrad (and the Tory Party's pockets) more:

https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1506539085669748744/photo/1

MI5/the security service dont conspire to remove Tory prime ministers btw, only Labour ones. They have a long history of that.

Thanks Wilts. Re your link I don't view this as conspiracy at all. The West in total inc the UK have turned too much of a blind eye to Putin's behaviour pre the Ukraine invasion and continued to trade with Russia and therefore support the Russian Government/military whether UK banks or German energy companies.

UK banks sadly have a long history of accepting business from foul individuals from despotic regimes who have enriched themselves at the cost of their citizens - not just those from Russia either. Hopefully this will now change - though I shan't hold my breath.

Excellent post Branton.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Branton.
I'm not comparing the EU with Putin's Russia. I'm saying lots and lots of Brexit supporters did compare the EU with dictatorships. And I'm saying that weakening the EU was an explicit policy goal of the man who has started the first peer to peer national war in Europe since 1945.

Regarding Johnson, you suggest he is aware of Russian interference in our elections and has chosen to ignore it for reasons of political benefit. Yes I can accept that. But that IS him working in collusion with Russia. Colluding in as much as both of them have a vested interest in the same outcome, not necessarily both of them cooking up a plan over vodka in a dacha. You are suggesting that a UK PM has chosen not to have his security services investigate an attack by a hostile power and he has done that for personal and political gain then he is precisely a Russian asset (and as I've said before, "asset" is a much more accurate term than "agent" which I used before - thanks to Wilts for bringing the better term into the discussion) .

Finally, it wasn't the 2019 election that Russia is believed to have infiltrated. The Russia Report was written before that election. I'd tell you which election it was but I fear it would challenge your decision to walk away from this interaction. And I respect that, so I won't say.

[belton rover]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Seems like this thread has gone the way of all threads in here. On this of all topics.

Exactly your intention, it seems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

News from the FCO about Russian cyber attacks.

Se the bit about the "raft of malign Russian attacks."

And note that it doesn't say anything in that list about attacks on our elections and democratic processes. Despite the Russian Report presenting detailed prima facie evidence that that had happened.

[Bentley Bullet]

Bolton, you should be deeply honoured if he did decide all by himself to block you.
At least I asked him to block me.

I know, Hound. Yet he insists he ‘chose’ to block you.

Belton, it is entirely possible to chose to do something even if someone has previously asked for it to be done.  Or are you just incapable of rational thought?

Seems like this thread has gone the way of all threads in here. On this of all topics.

Agreed Bst.
Look back to see where the change started.
Someone linked a tweet and suggested that Johnson was laughing about the situation in Ukraine.
The tweet was selectively started at a point where Johnson was laughing at what had just been said, then as he was smirking at whatever he had found funny, Sunak began talking about Ukraine.
Johnson stopped smiling and suddenly the clip was ended.
It as engineered very well as a put down and you couldn’t see through that, or wilfully knew what it was about anyway, and decided to use it to further politicise the thread, this thread of all others, to suit your own anti government agenda.
It is so obvious to see.
Some posters have repeatedly asked others to stop politicising the thread but some others choose not to listen.

I Agree Hound. The constant politicising of the Ukraine invasion is quite disgusting.