Ukraine

[River Don]

I think they attacked a Russian airfield a few miles over the border a few days after the outbreak, Wilts.

Edit. Here.

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/ukraine-reportedly-strikes-russian-airbase

[BobG]

Oh splendid... That is brilliant, vengeful, escalatory, dangerous. But then, it's war...

BobG

[SydneyRover]

Not sure if the Ukraine attacking military targets in Russia can be deemed an escalation but an expansion of the war theatre to spread enemy forces for sure.

[River Don]

I wouldn't say targeting military installations over the border is vengeful.

That ammunition is being stored there to use against people in Ukraine. It's no less a target than the supply ship they took out the other day

That airbase is a launchpad for attacks in Ukraine.

If they were bombing civilians in a neighbouring town it would be different

[River Don]

Just read a stunning article in the paper that claims Ukraine has more tanks now than when war began!

Apparently scavenging and fixing up lost Russian tanks and vehicles is a very successful tactic and it's all Soviet equipment they know how to use.

The articles goes so far as to claim Russia has become Ukraine biggest weapons supplier.

[Dutch Uncle]

I wouldn't say targeting military installations over the border is vengeful.

That ammunition is being stored there to use against people in Ukraine. It's no less a target than the supply ship they took out the other day

That airbase is a launchpad for attacks in Ukraine.

If they were bombing civilians in a neighbouring town it would be different

Agree fully with this as a person in the western world and is aware of what is going on.

Unfortunately it has the side-effect of providing Putin with an opportunity to falsely say to his people how justified he was to try and ‘liberate’ Ukrainians from the ‘extremists’

But as I said above that is a side effect. If the attacks have given Ukraine a better chance of resisting Russia’s aggression then that is IMHO more important to them.

[River Don]

Just read a stunning article in the paper that claims Ukraine has more tanks now than when war began!

Apparently scavenging and fixing up lost Russian tanks and vehicles is a very successful tactic and it's all Soviet equipment they know how to use.

The articles goes so far as to claim Russia has become Ukraine biggest weapons supplier.

It's not only hardware.

Apparently there is a thing called The Russian Freedom Legion. POWs realising they were used as cannon fodder, taking Ukraine citizenship and going back into battle for the other side.

[wilts rover]

Just read a stunning article in the paper that claims Ukraine has more tanks now than when war began!

Apparently scavenging and fixing up lost Russian tanks and vehicles is a very successful tactic and it's all Soviet equipment they know how to use.

The articles goes so far as to claim Russia has become Ukraine biggest weapons supplier.

Yes I have seen that on t'interweb - brilliant!

Thanks for the earlier answer btw.

[drfchound]

I see that Putin is claiming that he wasn’t aware of how badly his forces were doing in the quest to take Ukraine.
Apparently his advisors were scared to tell him the truth.
The sceptic in me suggests that he has started the process of telling the World that he wasn’t aware of the bombing of civilian areas too.
Using his get out of jail card perhaps.

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117

I used to work for an authoritarian boss who had employees terrified to contradict him. It was horrific. There were four mental breakdowns, two complete physical breakdowns and an attempted suicide in the 4 years I was there. When we had planning meetings with him, we would pitch the opposite idea of what we wanted so that he would condescendingly criticise us and chuck it out, giving us the result we really wanted.

I finally screwed up the courage to call him a liar to his face when he tried to stiff me for a job that had gone badly wrong because of changes he'd made to my plans. Facing him down was the emotionally hardest thing I've ever done. I was shaking and nearly retching when I left his office.

But I could go home, apply for a new job and hand in my notice. What the f**k do the head of the FSB or the armed forces do when faced with a boss like Putin?

[danumdon]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117

I used to work for an authoritarian boss who had employees terrified to contradict him. It was horrific. There were four mental breakdowns, two complete physical breakdowns and an attempted suicide in the 4 years I was there. When we had planning meetings with him, we would pitch the opposite idea of what we wanted so that he would condescendingly criticise us and chuck it out, giving us the result we really wanted.

I finally screwed up the courage to call him a liar to his face when he tried to stiff me for a job that had gone badly wrong because of changes he'd made to my plans. Facing him down was the emotionally hardest thing I've ever done. I was shaking and nearly retching when I left his office.

But I could go home, apply for a new job and hand in my notice. What the f**k do the head of the FSB or the armed forces do when faced with a boss like Putin?

Well i'm just happy he didn't break you and you managed to become the nice, pleasant , amiable and friendly chap we all like to have a chat with.

Seriously now, that does sound horrific and no one should have to deal with people like that in the workplace. Thankfully much stronger legislation is now in place to remove these types and allow people to have their ideas and work respected and treated fairly, hope the affects are over and you have moved on.

[BillyStubbsTears]

My ex-boss died before he got the public kicking he deserved over his responsibility for the Hillsborough disaster. My old line manager, a fine, decent, principled man who was broken by that bas**rd ended up in tears in the witness box at the Hillsborough Inquest, as he related what it was like working in that office.

Anyone with power who refuses to listen to criticism is a very, very dangerous person.

[BobG]

Exactly! Every team, everywhere, really should have an awkward sod, an ornery cuss, to challenge the onset of groupthink, of 'fearthink'  Although they've had some pretty serious man management failures, when it comes to sainthoods the Catholic Church is still the best at this. They call it the 'Devils Advocate'.

BobG

[BobG]

Another link, apposite word, for those interested in the complicity of sections of the UK political establishment with the actions of Russia over the last decade

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1509414334828589059?s=20&t=JqVrY4DktjeVbfoYHn7ktQ

BobG

[SydneyRover]

Another link, apposite word, for those interested in the complicity of sections of the UK political establishment with the actions of Russia over the last decade

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1509414334828589059?s=20&t=JqVrY4DktjeVbfoYHn7ktQ

BobG

Looks like we have the best run and funded donkey sanctuary in Europe.

[River Don]

Ukraine has managed to hit another target in Russia early this morning.

A couple of helicopters have managed to attack an oil depot at Belgorod, 25 miles over the border. Again another strategic target that can be seen as a defensive action.

They seem determined to carry the fight to the Russians. The danger here is one of these missions could go wrong, accidentally hitting a civilian site.

[Filo]

Ukraine has managed to hit another target in Russia early this morning.

A couple of helicopters have managed to attack an oil depot at Belgorod, 25 miles over the border. Again another strategic target that can be seen as a defensive action.

They seem determined to carry the fight to the Russians. The danger here is one of these missions could go wrong, accidentally hitting a civilian site.

In my opinion, after Russia attacking Ukraine, any target in Russia is fair game for the Ukrainians

[River Don]

I agree Filo but as Dutch points out, such attacks might be used for propaganda purposes. It could be used to justify the war to the Russian population, evidence Ukraine genuinely is a threat.

On the other hand it does demonstrate to the Russians it's more than just a special military operation.

[Dutch Uncle]

Thanks RD. I may have missed it but so far Ukraine has not claimed responsibility yet. Helicopters could potentially fly very low 40km into presumably heavily defended Russian airspace, but it is a high risk mission. Then again we have seen that the Russian soldiers on the ground have not performed very well.

The worry raised is that it might be a false flag Russian incident, and that would suggest the Russians might be preparing to escalate e.g. chemical or biological or tactical nuclear (probably artillery) weapons. I really hope not.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I missed this last week. Christ, this is powerful.
https://twitter.com/jackeparrock/status/1507386974851805194?cxt=HHwWlMC98fKdqOspAAAA

It's really not before time that someone finally called out Orban's Hugary. Orban has been a fascist cuckoo in the European nest for a decade. Putin's man right where he needed one. It's taken Zelensky to stare him in the eyes and tell him what he is.

[BobG]

What a man....

Russia is creating the next leader of  absolute worldwide stature. I hope they enjoy what they have done.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

General Election in Hungary today.

This is Zelensky's contribution.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-polytics/3447117-zelensky-to-orban-we-saw-no-effort-to-stop-war.html

Let's see if the Hungarian people really DO want to be ruled by a Putin-supporting fascist when the chips are down.

[SydneyRover]

He's very impressive with impeccable timing and knows exactly which buttons to press.

[ravenrover]

Reports of horrendous finds in relieved towns war crimes at their worst

[BillyStubbsTears]

Reports of horrendous finds in relieved towns war crimes at their worst

None of which should be surprising. Either as deliberate policy from a nationalist thug/bully, or as the deranged panicked reactions of terrified barely adult conscripts, these sort of horrors were inevitable.

[Filo]

Reports of horrendous finds in relieved towns war crimes at their worst

None of which should be surprising. Either as deliberate policy from a nationalist thug/bully, or as the deranged panicked reactions of terrified barely adult conscripts, these sort of horrors were inevitable.

Why Mad Vlad should never again be accepted on the World Stage, sanctions must be kept until he’s overthrown and executed for War Crimes

[wilts rover]

Russia is confirmed to have lost over 400 tanks since the beginning of the invasion. As they began with 1200 thats over a 1/3rd of their armour gone - amazing.

https://twitter.com/oryxspioenkop/status/1510632351050899456

[BobG]

Does anyone know if that loss of 400 tanks from 1,200 is the ENTIRE Russian stock of battleworthy tanks or was that 1,200 just what they sent to Ukraine? I confess I thought they'd have a lot more than 1,200.

BobG

[BobG]

General Election in Hungary today.

This is Zelensky's contribution.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ukrinform.net/amp/rubric-polytics/3447117-zelensky-to-orban-we-saw-no-effort-to-stop-war.html

Let's see if the Hungarian people really DO want to be ruled by a Putin-supporting fascist when the chips are down.

Ha ha ha!! That'll knock his Christmas card from Orban on the bonce for sure. Two men. Both exceptional. From opposite ends of the entire human spectrum. I can only think of Nicolas Maduro as equalling, or excelling tbh, the sheer self interested nastiness of Orban.

BobG

[normal rules]

Orban wins again. Promising cheap fuel from Russia.
Still refusing to supply weapons.
Interesting to see how the EU, and NATO view this continuing.