Ukraine

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.

There have been horrible events in the Donbas from BOTH sides.

But the violence was started by Russians, because their man in Kiev was drummed out for industrial scale corruption. Putin encouraged the uprising of ethnic Russians and supported it with arms and regular and special forces.


 Russia is to blame for that violence starting. Russia now using that as an excuse for an all out war on the whole state of Ukraine is a f**king abomination.

Here's an analogy. Imagine the Troubles in Northern Ireland had been played over a bigger canvass. Imagine if Ireland had sent in special forces to the border areas to support to Nationalists. And imagine if Ireland had then said that because the Loyalists were violent, they were going to invade the whole of the UK and replace the Govt with one which would bark when Dublin told it to.

Imagine if they had flattened Liverpool. Imagine if they had occupied Bedford and Wycombe, rounded up civillians raped 3 year olds, cut off the ears and eyelids of young men, then tied their hands and shot them.

What would be your context there?

[SydneyRover]

Or ...........

''Elizabeth continued her father’s legacy in Ireland. A bid for independence by Hugh O’Neill, Earl of Tyrone, was ultimately defeated by the Queen’s army, with a harsh post-war settlement impeding future uprisings from the Catholic majority.

All the while, plantations were being established throughout the country. Lands occupied by Irish landowners were confiscated, especially in Munster and Ulster. They were distributed to colonists, commonly known as planters, who came in large numbers from England, Scotland and Wales. The final official plantations sprung up under Oliver Cromwell’s English Commonwealth during the 1650s, when thousands of Parliamentarian soldiers were settled in Ireland ...........

https://www.history.co.uk/history-of-the-northern-ireland-conflict

Oops sorry took the conversation down a bit of a side road there, but I'm always conscious of where it all started.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Looks like the next phase of the Russians atrocities have started by targeting a railway station in the Donbass area with cruise missiles where hundreds of people were waiting to escape .

Shouldn't surprise us if they go for the hospitals next.

Putin must be desperate to provoke NATO countries into the theatre of war before he's well and truly wiped out by being outwitted, out fought and out of military resources to claim any sort of victory.

I was kinda hoping the Russians would withdraw, not come back and say "What military operation? No, wasn't us, didn't happen!" "Anyone who mentions the Special Military Operation could be jailed. It's all fake!".

[tommy toes]

I see that Ursula von der Leyen is to offer Ukraine fast track membership of the EU.
Presumably if this is taken up then the EU states will help to rebuild the country, once Putin has had enough.

Though how Putin will react if this goes through is anyone's guess.

[River Don]

War is shite and dehumanising, attrocities have always happened and always will. As for Russian WW2 attrocities, you have to put them alongside the attrocities committed by the Germans as they moved east. In the Ukraine, any attrocities by Russians also have to be put alongside those committed by the Ukrainians eg Odessa, Donbass. Western media bias - of course.

This is a war between the US and Russia, Ukraine is a pawn. You can judge who is responsible for what only if you are looking at the big picture. Nationalism of all kind is evil.

I thought it was the Russians who have taken it upon themselves to denazify Ukraine, replace the democratically elected 'drug addled'
nazi  president with a puppet regime and cleanse the country by razing the towns and killing all the citizens

It now appears they want to erase the Ukrainian identity and absorb the nation into a wider Russia.

At least that's what Putin seems to be telling us.

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is mad.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html?m=1

That's a website that is collating photographic evidence of destroyed, abandoned or captured Russian army vehicles.

They have clear evidence that 2750 have already been lost, including nearly 500 front line tanks.

I wonder how long Russia can go on with losses at this rate?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Really big number in that report has only just hit me. The total number of captured and abandoned military vehicles is pushing 1300. Of which, getting on for 250 are tanks. So Russian squaddies have been surrendering or fleeing from military vehicles in huge numbers.

[BobG]

How many more have they got they can call on?


A very imprecise question I know. But indications are all we're ever going to get in just about every field.

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Officially they have 12,000 tanks. But the analyses I've seen say that only 3,000 are operational and the other 9,000 are obsolete, rusting away in storage or being cannibalised for parts. So they've lost at least 12-15% of their front line tanks in 7 weeks. And are going to struggle economically to replace them. And of course they are going to lose a lot more in the upcoming Donbas battle . And they cannot bring every tank away from other areas where they must keep a presence. Some analysts are saying their armoured forces will be effectively depleted if they haven't won by the middle of next month.

[SydneyRover]

It must be unnerving to say the least sitting in a tank having seen scores of others with their turrets blown off.

[River Don]

Satellite pictures of an 8 mile long column of Russian vehicles on the road near Kharkiv have emerged.

They can't be making the same mistake can they?

That   last motorised queue was held up and steadily picked off by a few Ukraine special forces on quad bikes. Dodging cross country and picking off tanks at will with anti tank missle systems.

[BillyStubbsTears]

A more detailed take on what the Russian tank losses mean.

https://mobile.twitter.com/partizan_oleg/status/1513402516628996097

TL:dr. The losses are devastating to Russia's ability to keep the mechanised attack going.

Which could be very good news if it means Russia has to call off the attack.

Or it could be very, very bad news if Putin's response is to go non-conventional.

[River Don]

It looks like the Russians have used chemical weapons in Mariupol.

A grim new escalation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Got to hope to God that's not true, for the poor bas**rds in Mariupol and for all of our sakes.

[BobG]

Oh Christ I hope that's  wrong. The West can hardly ignore it if it's true. But where would that take us all...?

I'm  due to fly back at the end of this week. Maybe I should stay? It's  a nice country.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

fmd Axeholme, I thought you'd gone to Russia!

[SydneyRover]

''British #Ukraine Marine Aiden Aslin (AKA Cossack Gundî / Johnny) has had to surrender with his unit to Russian forces in Mariupol. They fought like hell for 48 days and have now run out of food and ammunition due to #Russia’s siege and destruction of the city.''

https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1513821127000395779?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1513821127000395779%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2Flive%2F2022%2Fapr%2F12%2Frussia-ukraine-war-latest-mariupol-mayor-says-more-than-10000-civilians-killed-zelenskiy-taking-chemical-weapons-threat-seriously

[ravenrover]

I fear we will never hear from or of these Ukranian forces again

[scawsby steve]

It looks like the Russians have used chemical weapons in Mariupol.

A grim new escalation.

That report was debunked on Sky News last night.

[danumdon]

It looks like the Russians have used chemical weapons in Mariupol.

A grim new escalation.

That report was debunked on Sky News last night.

Looks like the fog of war is descending all over this conflict. Was always going to be very difficult to get an honest appraisal of what is really going on over there but i hope its true and that this is a bogus report.

Trouble is now the west have to be seen to be taking closer order in this conflict, that being the case then all bets are off, who knows where this will end for us all.

The fighting in Mariupol looks like it may be coming to a head, i just hope the reports coming out of there are also not all correct,every report seems to show even more civilians killed, but i fear it will be worse than Bondarenka and Bouka.

[SydneyRover]

''Abramovich hit by multibillion-pound crackdown on assets in Jersey and France''

''However, the UK has not seized any of Abramovich’s UK properties, which include a £120m mansion on Kensington Palace Gardens just behind the royal palace. His family have amassed a UK property collection worth more than £250m, numbering about 70 homes, buildings and pieces of land. The UK is forcing him to sell Chelsea FC, which he bought in 2003 for about £140m''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/13/jersey-freezes-54bn-of-assets-linked-to-roman-abramovich

[BobG]

Two bits of good news tonight:

The Moskva has been severely damaged. Differing accounts of why but the thing is reported to be badly damaged and abandoned,

and

Justice Minister Lord Wolfson has resigned from the Government over both the behaviour of the PM and the governments' official responses to Partygate over the last several months. That's code for resigning because the government has consistently lied to every single one of us - including BB.

At last, a member of the government one can respect.


BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

500+ personnel on board. Could be horrific losses.

Moscow says the damage was caused by a fire and the ship was safely evacuated. I doubt we'll ever know.

[River Don]

The UK has just started supplying anti shipping missles.

It might just be a coincidence.

Edit. Ukraine is indeed claiming it hit it with two missles.

[Metalmicky]

Saw this earlier and thought I would share...

[glosterred]

Two bits of good news tonight:

The Moskva has been severely damaged. Differing accounts of why but the thing is reported to be badly damaged and abandoned,

and




BobG

There is somewhere in Ukraine a farmer getting his tractor ready to salvage that ship

[wilts rover]

The UK has just started supplying anti shipping missles.

It might just be a coincidence.

Edit. Ukraine is indeed claiming it hit it with two missles.

Report on the radio this morning said it was hit with missiles from Ukraine's own developed system - Neptune

described here

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/04/13/the-ukrainians-claim-they-damaged-a-russian-cruiser-be-skeptical/?sh=7ccb73b53971

[Nudga]

Saw this earlier and thought I would share...

He also had a short stay in the ICU but then had loads of parties.

[SydneyRover]

Saw this earlier and thought I would share...

He also had a short stay in the ICU but then had loads of parties.

Good point Nudga, it's a wonder he found time to fit ICU in!

[Nudga]

He's so brave, it's like nothing scares him, not covid, not war torn Kiev.