Ukraine

[BillyStubbsTears]

Is Corbyn right....

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-nato-labour-ukraine-keir-starmer-b995271.html

No. His analysis on NATO is childishly simplistic. He's an embarrassment.

What does he think Putin would do next if the Baltic States weren't in NATO.

He claims to be a great anti-Imperialist, yet there's barely a word of criticism from him for naked imperialist aggression by Putin.

[SydneyRover]

If what is being reported is true his comments were a bit more nuanced but still idealistic by saying that alliances 'should be disbanded' but maybe the next question should have been under what circumstances. He supports the Ukraine's right to defend itself, he doesn't blame NATO for the war (and presumably not the EU either) He admires Zelenskiy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

He admires Zelensky...

...but we shouldn't send him armaments.

Corbyn is either a naive fool or is knowingly a Russian asset. I've never understood which, but either way it's a relief he is no longer a Labour MP.

[SydneyRover]

He seems to strengthen Starmers position every time he speaks

[Metalmicky]

What do you reckon MM? - No - he's a simplistic fool

Is the Ukraine right for wanting to join the EU? - I think so - but perhaps the EU doesn't want the Ukraine

[SydneyRover]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

[River Don]

He admires Zelensky...

...but we shouldn't send him armaments.

Corbyn is either a naive fool or is knowingly a Russian asset. I've never understood which, but either way it's a relief he is no longer a Labour MP.

Corbyn hasn't said he admire Zelensky. He said "he speaks well, I admire that.

It's not the same thing.

[SydneyRover]

He admires Zelensky...

...but we shouldn't send him armaments.

Corbyn is either a naive fool or is knowingly a Russian asset. I've never understood which, but either way it's a relief he is no longer a Labour MP.

Corbyn hasn't said he admire Zelensky. He said "he speaks well, I admire that.

It's not the same thing.

true, he admires the way he speaks

[Metalmicky]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

[mushRTID]

The latest video on Putin today, he’s looking a very ill man!

[wilts rover]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

Yes, totally correct what the Daily Mail reported about him that he was an apolgist for Putin for what he was saying about the war in Ukraine

- oh hang on a minute

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3581363/Boris-Johnson-blasted-apologist-President-Putin-No-10-Jack-Straw-slam-claim-EU-blame-starting-war-Ukraine.html

[DonnyBazR0ver]

The latest video on Putin today, he’s looking a very ill man!

He definitely needs medical attention!

[wilts rover]

Fascinating - due to Russian tank losses (inc Ukrainian farmers) plus supplies from the EU (ex-soviet kit so not US or UK) Ukraine now has more tanks in theatre than Russia (the worlds second largest army)

https://twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1517171266997960705

[drfchound]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

Well said MM.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I like the story about Ukraine now being supplied with 1000s of spare parts giving them another 20 flightworthy fighter jets.

Just a technicality all these spare parts of fuselage, wings, engines and missiles were already joined up!! Ha ha.

[SydneyRover]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

was it, where is your debate, you were intending to debate something about why you posted it?

[SydneyRover]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

Well said MM.

didn't get the Dot Cotton gig then"

[drfchound]

it was just a hand grenade into the thread then?

Hardly a hand grenade Sydney  (probably not a good analogy in a thread on a war BTW) ........ it was just another's point of view.

Well said MM.

didn't get the Dot Cotton gig then"

…..and that is your imaginative contribution to the “debate”.








 

[Dutch Uncle]

Is Corbyn right....

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jeremy-corbyn-nato-labour-ukraine-keir-starmer-b995271.html

No. His analysis on NATO is childishly simplistic. He's an embarrassment.

What does he think Putin would do next if the Baltic States weren't in NATO.

He claims to be a great anti-Imperialist, yet there's barely a word of criticism from him for naked imperialist aggression by Putin.

Have been meaning to reply to this for a while but was busy

Of course I strongly disagree with Corbyn’s analysis.

First of all the NATO Alliance was set up to prevent war. Leaving alone the idea that a divided Western Europe without Alliances would have been a very much more attractive target for Warsaw Pact/USSR forces prior to 1989, and so this fundamental reason for NATO being set up has been successful in avoiding that military conflict,  I would also suggest other possible wars have been prevented, most notably between Greece and Turkey had they not both been NATO members, and not impossible skirmishes between the UK and Spain over Gibraltar. These among many other possibilities.

NATO does not ‘build up forces’. The only military capability owned and operated by NATO is a fleet of E3A Airborne Early Warning aircraft. All other forces are owned by the NATO Nations. It is the Nations that make their own individual decisions on acquisition of new military forces and capabilities.   

It can be said in some sense that NATO actually helps avoid too much build up of some forces. Via the NATO Defence Planning Process, NATO analysts assess the future threats say 10 years out, and which of these might happen simultaneously, and what pool of military forces might be desirable to counter these threats. Then NATO and the NATO Nations enter a negotiation process whereby Nations are encouraged to take a NATO wide view and spend their national defence budgets in line with the overall picture. This may mean for example that instead of every single nation acquiring all possible capabilities that one nation acquires e.g. fewer tanks and artillery pieces and acquires a chemical decontamination capability or a mobile hospital or engineering equipment, or acquires fewer attack aircraft and more Reconnaissance or Transport Aircraft, or acquires fewer Frigates and more Search and Rescue Helicopters or Minesweepers. This can potentially avoid too much of a build-up of attacking capabilities.         

Of course many nations additionally acquire military capabilities for requirements outside of the NATO context, for example the US has huge military capabilities in the Pacific which not are in any way part of NATO agreed defence plannning.

[turnbull for england]

Thanks Dutch, always nice to have a learned  post on such matters.

[normal rules]

I see the uk embassy is reopen Kyiv next week.
I was wondering, if Russia dropped a cruise missile on this building, would it be classed as an attack on a NATO country?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I see the uk embassy is reopen Kyiv next week.
I was wondering, if Russia dropped a cruise missile on this building, would it be classed as an attack on a NATO country?

America accidentally bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade by mistake during the action against Serbia. The Chinese were furious but the was no suggestion is was a casus belli. I'm sure that, even if Russia deliberately targeted a NATO embassy, ever step possible would be taken to not interpret that as a casus belli.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Propaganda or news not being allowed by the BBC and other pro western media? There's lots of similar reports and interviews including very recent ones.

https://rumble.com/vzakjb-april-1-2022.html

[BillyStubbsTears]

Corbyn today in the Morning Star.

"There must be an immediate ceasefire in Ukraine, followed by a Russian troop withdrawal and agreement between Russia and Ukraine on future security arrangements."

Lovely. Except, what do you do when Putin says "And who the f**k are you exactly?" and continues reducing cities to rubble?

You criticise countries supporting Ukraine preventing itself from being overwhelmed.
"But instead of urging peace, most European nations have taken the opportunity to ramp up arms supplies, feed the war machine and boost the share prices of weapons manufacturers."

And this. Good God he is truly as thick as mince.

"There are 1,800 nuclear warheads in the world primed and ready for use. One “tactical” weapon would kill hundred of thousands, a nuclear bomb would kill millions. It cannot be contained or its effects limited."

I really don't want to minimise the horror of nuclear weapons, but Corbyn doesn't appear to understand what a tactical nuclear weapon is.

The thought that hexwas foisted upon us as Labour leader is horrific. The memory of that is like a receding nightmare. Let him spend the rest of his days writing this fourth form nonsense for people who are already convinced.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/now-let-us-talk-peace

[SydneyRover]

Well putin for one certainly didn't want him in power

[Colemans Left Hook]

Just a few irrelevant words ...... before our "experts" continue the thread

I have never played the boardgame "Risk" and no nothing at all about what it is all about - but Mrs Coleman apparently played it in the 1970's and she has always reminded me in the boardgame ... she was always told to "get/hold"  or whatever of Ukraine for its "resources" full stop.

finally after about 50 years I today decided to google " the board game risk ukraine" to see what it is all about  and maybe learn something - alas not

and found amongst other things this

https://slate.com/business/2014/02/ukraine-in-risk-it-really-is-weak.html


ironically some US bloke has a 30 year old "AMERICAN VERSION" risk board game where Ukraine seems to have taken over Russia  (ha ha !!)

https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/u4h6qc/my_30_year_old_risk_game_at_home_has_ukraine/


 that's what i would call a result


now back over to the 'xsperts

[SydneyRover]

From your link .............

''My (30 year old) Risk game at home has Ukraine instead of Russia
OCRemoved - Rule 6
Sorry, this post has been removed by the moderators of r/mildlyinteresting.
Moderators remove posts from feeds for a variety of reasons, including keeping communities safe, civil, and true to their purpose.''

[SydneyRover]

It's funny old world, corbyn reminds me of my first year junior school self thinking that as the world grew and we all gained knowledge all the problems would be solved in the not too distant future.

corbyn is barred from office for honest and naive and johnson should have been barred for being a lying f**k and a spiv.

[drfchound]

Hindsight eh Syd.
When he was Labour leader you backed him to the hilt.
As did some others on here.

[SydneyRover]

Hindsight eh Syd.
When he was Labour leader you backed him to the hilt.
As did some others on here.

not wanting another lazy corrupt racist tory government lazy is a little different though aye Dot?