Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of an independent neighbour. It is doing that by obliterating city after city on that nation's soil.

The other "nationalistic blag" is a desperate fight for the very survival of a people as a free, independent entity.

But yeah. Bothsides.

But yeah. Bothsides.

The black and white world of BST.

Ukraine is obliterating towns too, or are they using smart bombs aimed just at Russians?

Does the Ukraine nationalism include just the people supporting the Coup?

[River Don]

The tactics Russia is using to gain ground appear to be horrific.

Shell the target for 3 or 4 hours, then mount a ground attack looking for a breakthrough. When they all been killed start the shelling again.

It's like 1945, Putin is prepared to try to take this land with the blood of Russia's youth.

Kinda what Ukraine was doing to the Donbas before Russia officially joined in.

Not really, before invasion there was a kind of trench warfare with sporadic outbursts of fighting, taking some 14,000 lives over 8 years.

The Russian invasion escalated the scale of the conflict immensely.

[BillyStubbsTears]

#bothsides

[Ldr]

“Wisdom accepts that all things have two sides” - Carl Jung

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yep. They do. You're misunderstanding the concept of bothsidesism though which is not the same thing.

Accepting that there are always two sides doesn't mean lazily assuming a false equivalence.

[Ldr]

Very true

[River Don]

Talking of both sides

It's worth remembering the Donbas separatists had Russian backing all along, offering training and weapons, there's evidence the Russians were supplying manpower too.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Including the Russian SAM that brought down a Malaysian airliner.

[BessieBlue]

Russia has held more than an ambition to re-assimilate Ukraine into their collective for many years under Putin - well before Crimea. The intention is undoubtedly the same for Moldova - hence the partial occupation of that country.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Including the Russian SAM that brought down a Malaysian airliner.

Your analysis of that incident being?

[River Don]

Let me guess, it was actually the Ukrainians who shot down that aircraft to blame on the Russians.

Putin is a really good guy just deeply misunderstood, it's just all these really unfortunate things happen that the world blames on him. None of it is fair

[Darren]

Including the Russian SAM that brought down a Malaysian airliner.

Your analysis of that incident being?

Russian bot at work? Bloody hell, they get everywhere.

[wilts rover]

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of an independent neighbour. It is doing that by obliterating city after city on that nation's soil.

The other "nationalistic blag" is a desperate fight for the very survival of a people as a free, independent entity.

But yeah. Bothsides.

But yeah. Bothsides.

The black and white world of BST.

Ukraine is obliterating towns too, or are they using smart bombs aimed just at Russians?

Does the Ukraine nationalism include just the people supporting the Coup?

Which towns are Ukraine 'obliterating'?

[Bristol Red Rover]

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of

"Bothsides". The bone idle argument approach des nos jours.

Split the "nationalistic blag from both sides" into the differences between the two sides.

One side is blagging nationalistically about its historic right to obliterate the very existence of an independent neighbour. It is doing that by obliterating city after city on that nation's soil.

The other "nationalistic blag" is a desperate fight for the very survival of a people as a free, independent entity.

But yeah. Bothsides.

But yeah. Bothsides.

The black and white world of BST.

Ukraine is obliterating towns too, or are they using smart bombs aimed just at Russians?

Does the Ukraine nationalism include just the people supporting the Coup?

Which towns are Ukraine 'obliterating'?

Oh yeah, I forgot, Ukraine is only using pretty flags and flowers in there attempts to deal with Russians, or is it they have ultra smart bombs that don't damage buildings or civilians just Russian soldiers, or maybe they ask Russians to go into the fields to get blown up. Jeeze!

And Mariupol for one.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right BRR.

UKRAINE obliterated Mariupol?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Let me get this right BRR.

UKRAINE obliterated Mariupol?

You love to ask a lot of questions but infecund on the answering. But did expect you to get triggered by this one, so.... in the spirit of demonstrating answering.....

Fire went both ways, or did the Ukraines just shout at the Russians? Ukraine snipers hanging out in the buildings sometimes with their human shields taken at gun point, sometimes with volunteer ones (hmmmm....), sometimes without any. Russians should have done the decent thing and asked the Ukraines to step outside.

[wilts rover]

Ukraine obliterated Mariupol by firing rifles with human shieds.

That's not equivalence - it's just Kremlin propoganda - pure and simple.

[River Don]

Yes the Kremlin does put about these stories of Ukrainian Nazis using human shields.

But then we have actual footage of insanely heroic Ukrainian helicopter pilots flying at almost ground level to avoid anti-aircraft fire. Day after day shipping food and ammo in to Avostal and taking wounded away. That is an incredibly selfless act and some lost their lives doing it.

[Filo]

Let me get this right BRR.

UKRAINE obliterated Mariupol?

You love to ask a lot of questions but infecund on the answering. But did expect you to get triggered by this one, so.... in the spirit of demonstrating answering.....

Fire went both ways, or did the Ukraines just shout at the Russians? Ukraine snipers hanging out in the buildings sometimes with their human shields taken at gun point, sometimes with volunteer ones (hmmmm....), sometimes without any. Russians should have done the decent thing and asked the Ukraines to step outside.

Russia should have done the decent thing and not invaded a Sovereign Country Mr Lavrov

[BillyStubbsTears]

Let me get this right BRR.

UKRAINE obliterated Mariupol?

You love to ask a lot of questions but infecund on the answering. But did expect you to get triggered by this one, so.... in the spirit of demonstrating answering.....

Fire went both ways, or did the Ukraines just shout at the Russians? Ukraine snipers hanging out in the buildings sometimes with their human shields taken at gun point, sometimes with volunteer ones (hmmmm....), sometimes without any. Russians should have done the decent thing and asked the Ukraines to step outside.

#bothsides

[River Don]

The Guardian chief economics correspondent is making the point that Russia is winning the economic war. I think he's probably right.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/02/russia-economic-war-ukraine-food-fuel-price-vladimir-putin

[BillyStubbsTears]

RD.
Larry Elliott regularly provides us with strong evidence of his lack of understanding of basic economics. He's been doing it over Brexit for years. He's doing it here.

He's arguing.
1) Russian gas and oil has been sidelined on world markets.
2) As a result, world supply has been reduced.
3) As a result of THAT, the price has gone up.
4) Russia has capitalised on that by selling its oil and gas to China.

Cause: Western sanctions
Effect: Russia gets richer.

A cursory look at that exposes the total lack of logic in his argument. How can the price of oil go up because of Russian oil being excluded from the market, if Russian oil is actually being sold.

Elliott isn't an economist. He's a far-Left polemicist regularly chucking rocks at The West.

[River Don]

The price of oil can go up if Russia limits supply.

They can't make as much as they were selling it to the Europeans but they can still make money selling it to alternative sources can't they? (They are giving good deals to the chinese and Indians)

Its partly to do with geography, I guess Russia can more easily pump to China and India than Europe can ship supplies from the Middle East and North America.

Both sides are suffering but which is suffering more?

[wilts rover]

According to this Russian output has been dropping, as has the crude oil price and is expected to drop further after OPEC's announcement today.

Dunno, its not my area of expertese - but they can't both be right.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/02/energy/oil-prices-opec-russia/index.html

[River Don]

If as that suggests OPEC ramps up its production of hydrocarbons then inflation will be limited.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The price of oil can go up if Russia limits supply.

They can't make as much as they were selling it to the Europeans but they can still make money selling it to alternative sources can't they? (They are giving good deals to the chinese and Indians)

Its partly to do with geography, I guess Russia can more easily pump to China and India than Europe can ship supplies from the Middle East and North America.

Both sides are suffering but which is suffering more?

Russia cannot by definition make more money by selling less because the price has gone up because they are selling less. It's totally illogical.

[River Don]

The price of oil can go up if Russia limits supply.

They can't make as much as they were selling it to the Europeans but they can still make money selling it to alternative sources can't they? (They are giving good deals to the chinese and Indians)

Its partly to do with geography, I guess Russia can more easily pump to China and India than Europe can ship supplies from the Middle East and North America.

Both sides are suffering but which is suffering more?

Russia cannot by definition make more money by selling less because the price has gone up because they are selling less. It's totally illogical.

I'm not suggesting they are making more money.

Just that they are still able to have an income.

Russia's income is reduced no doubt.

At the same time the west is suffering too.

[SydneyRover]

this is from April 14

https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-oil-sales-up-despite-massive-sanctions-2022-4#:~:text=Despite%20massive%20sanctions%20from%20the,with%20China%2C%20and%20soaring%20prices.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The price of oil can go up if Russia limits supply.

They can't make as much as they were selling it to the Europeans but they can still make money selling it to alternative sources can't they? (They are giving good deals to the chinese and Indians)

Its partly to do with geography, I guess Russia can more easily pump to China and India than Europe can ship supplies from the Middle East and North America.

Both sides are suffering but which is suffering more?

Russia cannot by definition make more money by selling less because the price has gone up because they are selling less. It's totally illogical.

I'm not suggesting they are making more money.

Just that they are still able to have an income.

Russia's income is reduced no doubt.

At the same time the west is suffering too.

RD.
In not saying you are saying Russia is making more money because of the sanctions. But that's precisely what Elliott is saying.

"the sanctions have had the perverse effect of driving up the cost of Russia’s oil and gas exports, massively boosting its trade balance and financing its war effort."

No-one who writes nonsense like that should ever be listened to on the subject of economics again.

If Russia is making more money from oil, it is because other factors have driven up the price of their oil. They cannot, by definition, make more money from selling oil because some countries refuse to buy their oil.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yes the Kremlin does put about these stories of Ukrainian Nazis using human shields.

But then we have actual footage of insanely heroic Ukrainian helicopter pilots flying at almost ground level to avoid anti-aircraft fire. Day after day shipping food and ammo in to Avostal and taking wounded away. That is an incredibly selfless act and some lost their lives doing it.

They may or may not refer to them as Nazis - the ones with Nazi tattoos probs are Nazis - but the point is Ukraines did and do use human shields. Desperate measures to stay alive for them. Its not so much Kremlin news as deliberately not western media news as it doesn't fit the propaganda narrative of goodies v baddies. Really, did you even believe that trash at primary school?