Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

Good source though obviously less than what has actually happened, as it says there "the amount of equipment destroyed is significantly higher than recorded here."

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interesting how the UK is messaging Russia re the mercenaries sentenced to death by the DPR. I suspect they will be compelled to contact the DPR itself, but will they acknowledge its existence?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Interesting how the UK is messaging Russia re the mercenaries sentenced to death by the DPR. I suspect they will be compelled to contact the DPR itself, but will they acknowledge its existence?

So let's see.

You repeat Russian claims that the destruction of cities in the Donbas is due to Ukrainian actions.

You publish Russian Govt data on Ukrainian casualties and materiel losses.

You repeatedly follow the Russian line of calling foreigners fighting on the Ukrainian side "mercenaries".

And yet you take umbrage when I suggest that you're playing the Useful Idiot, parroting the Russian Govt line?

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

Yep, and as I said, and you ignored, the real figures are significantly higher than what it has. So there we have it, solid for what it is, but by its own admission, wildly inaccurate.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interesting how the UK is messaging Russia re the mercenaries sentenced to death by the DPR. I suspect they will be compelled to contact the DPR itself, but will they acknowledge its existence?

So let's see.

You repeat Russian claims that the destruction of cities in the Donbas is due to Ukrainian actions.

You publish Russian Govt data on Ukrainian casualties and materiel losses.

You repeatedly follow the Russian line of calling foreigners fighting on the Ukrainian side "mercenaries".

And yet you take umbrage when I suggest that you're playing the Useful Idiot, parroting the Russian Govt line?

Ukraine is currently blasting the poo out of Donetsk. Are you denying that?

I passed it on here for people to make of it what they will. So much on here is the Ukraine/NATO/BBC version which is clearly missing the Ukraine catastrophes. You gave me your verified but evidentlty inaccurate alternative.

Foreign fighters are mercenaries.

You are clearly Liz Truss.

[idler]

Mercenaries usually get paid.
Do you know if Ukraine are paying these fighters and if so how much?

[BillyStubbsTears]

This is grimly symbolic of the Russian approach.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1539260812371677185?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Their strategy now is simply to rain down cheap, shit accuracy rockets on the Ukrainian positions from 20 miles behind the front line. Then they send in a few troops in armoured vehicles. If they don't encounter any resistance, they move the front on. If they are wiped out because the shit accuracy rockets did a shit job, rinse and repeat.

Their much-lauded air strike forces have proved in battle to be hopeless. They have been totally unable to establish the air superiority needed to surgically isolate and defeat the defenders. So they resort to the brutal old method of carpet bombing - putting people and infrastructure through a grinder and spitting them out.

I wish I didn't swear as much as I do, because I'm struggling to find words to express my revulsion here. I can only repeat what my Russian friend said to me at the weekend - and I've never in my life heard him swear before. He said they are f**king savages. Both on the geo-political level, where their strategy is to bully whoever they can into being in their sphere of influence, not with the promise of a better tomorrow if they collaborate, but with the threat of extermination if they resist. And on the battlefield level, where they have a total disregard for the lives of combatants on both sides, and on the collateral damage that their disgusting war is doing.

On both counts, they are pulling us back into a dark, brutal past. They cannot be allowed to succeed.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

Yep, and as I said, and you ignored, the real figures are significantly higher than what it has. So there we have it, solid for what it is, but by its own admission, wildly inaccurate.

Do you understand the difference between upper bound and lower bound estimates?

[ravenrover]

And it appears that a lot of the munitions being used by Russia are banned Internationally

[danumdon]

This is grimly symbolic of the Russian approach.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1539260812371677185?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Their strategy now is simply to rain down cheap, shit accuracy rockets on the Ukrainian positions from 20 miles behind the front line. Then they send in a few troops in armoured vehicles. If they don't encounter any resistance, they move the front on. If they are wiped out because the shit accuracy rockets did a shit job, rinse and repeat.

Their much-lauded air strike forces have proved in battle to be hopeless. They have been totally unable to establish the air superiority needed to surgically isolate and defeat the defenders. So they resort to the brutal old method of carpet bombing - putting people and infrastructure through a grinder and spitting them out.

I wish I didn't swear as much as I do, because I'm struggling to find words to express my revulsion here. I can only repeat what my Russian friend said to me at the weekend - and I've never in my life heard him swear before. He said they are f**king savages. Both on the geo-political level, where their strategy is to bully whoever they can into being in their sphere of influence, not with the promise of a better tomorrow if they collaborate, but with the threat of extermination if they resist. And on the battlefield level, where they have a total disregard for the lives of combatants on both sides, and on the collateral damage that their disgusting war is doing.

On both counts, they are pulling us back into a dark, brutal past. They cannot be allowed to succeed.

Very difficult for anyone to disagree with this, lets see what the cat drags in.

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST, indiscriminate targetting like this?

https://t.me/mod_russia_en/2321

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST, that youtube link is a weird example to use. The Ukraine troops would be in all those buildings. Seems the targetting was very accurate. Maybe you know which one they were hiding in?

From what I can see, your description is not what happens. Certainly not carpet bombing - where do you egt that from?

Hopeless air strikes? As you know, they are not using huge bombs, nor carpet bombing, so we're talking about generally speaking targetted strikes against very very well dug in positions.

Savages - I think you'll find most troops around the world are savage, it's the nature of the beast. Train a guy to be cold in the face of death and destruction and you get a psycho. Of course they are. But to bring us to Ukraine - what kind nurturing are you seeing in trrops shelling civilian areas of Donetsk, including a maternity hospital? One with no Russian troops in it. 100s of shells a day for weeks. Isn't that your definition of carpet bombing?

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

Yep, and as I said, and you ignored, the real figures are significantly higher than what it has. So there we have it, solid for what it is, but by its own admission, wildly inaccurate.

Do you understand the difference between upper bound and lower bound estimates?

Yup, but both are wrong. What do you think the true figures are? For Ukraine and Russia? Lets go with planes, tanks, and troops dead/injured/captured. O'm not saying I know, but from your angle of dismissing what teh Russian MoD say, and giving me your low estimate, which has to be noted isn't balanced, I guess you might be coming from somewhere?

[Bristol Red Rover]

And it appears that a lot of the munitions being used by Russia are banned Internationally

"a lot"? Like the cluster bombs? ie the ones that Ukraine is also using? And the one's that spread anti personel mines?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Mercenaries usually get paid.
Do you know if Ukraine are paying these fighters and if so how much?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60669763

So that's $1000 to $2000 a day plus bonuses. Maybe some on here would still class that as just covering food costs...

[BillyStubbsTears]

BST, that youtube link is a weird example to use. The Ukraine troops would be in all those buildings. Seems the targetting was very accurate. Maybe you know which one they were hiding in?

From what I can see, your description is not what happens. Certainly not carpet bombing - where do you egt that from?

Hopeless air strikes? As you know, they are not using huge bombs, nor carpet bombing, so we're talking about generally speaking targetted strikes against very very well dug in positions.

Savages - I think you'll find most troops around the world are savage, it's the nature of the beast. Train a guy to be cold in the face of death and destruction and you get a psycho. Of course they are. But to bring us to Ukraine - what kind nurturing are you seeing in trrops shelling civilian areas of Donetsk, including a maternity hospital? One with no Russian troops in it. 100s of shells a day for weeks. Isn't that your definition of carpet bombing?

You mean the "targeting" that basically had rockets falling in random places over a hectare area?

You don't HAVE to take umbrage at every criticism of Russia you know?

By the way, I'm talking about the senior military commanders and their political masters. Unless you think the grunts on the ground are choosing strategy?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

Yep, and as I said, and you ignored, the real figures are significantly higher than what it has. So there we have it, solid for what it is, but by its own admission, wildly inaccurate.

Do you understand the difference between upper bound and lower bound estimates?

Yup, but both are wrong. What do you think the true figures are? For Ukraine and Russia? Lets go with planes, tanks, and troops dead/injured/captured. O'm not saying I know, but from your angle of dismissing what teh Russian MoD say, and giving me your low estimate, which has to be noted isn't balanced, I guess you might be coming from somewhere?

Right. This is my absolutely final response to you, because I really should know better.

1) You are providing Russian MoD data with zero supporting evidence.

2) That is data of what they claim are Ukrainian losses.

3) I am linking to am independent source of evidence-based  RUSSIAN losses.

You equate the two as "wrong". Which misses the point so badly, that you must either be incapable of processing information, or you're deliberately obfuscating.

Have fun. I'm out of this.

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST, that youtube link is a weird example to use. The Ukraine troops would be in all those buildings. Seems the targetting was very accurate. Maybe you know which one they were hiding in?

From what I can see, your description is not what happens. Certainly not carpet bombing - where do you egt that from?

Hopeless air strikes? As you know, they are not using huge bombs, nor carpet bombing, so we're talking about generally speaking targetted strikes against very very well dug in positions.

Savages - I think you'll find most troops around the world are savage, it's the nature of the beast. Train a guy to be cold in the face of death and destruction and you get a psycho. Of course they are. But to bring us to Ukraine - what kind nurturing are you seeing in trrops shelling civilian areas of Donetsk, including a maternity hospital? One with no Russian troops in it. 100s of shells a day for weeks. Isn't that your definition of carpet bombing?

You mean the "targeting" that basically had rockets falling in random places over a hectare area?

You don't HAVE to take umbrage at every criticism of Russia you know?

By the way, I'm talking about the senior military commanders and their political masters. Unless you think the grunts on the ground are choosing strategy?

No, I am seeing a few buildings getting direct hits.

[Bristol Red Rover]

It's evidence based. It doesn't claim anything it can't support. I wouldn't trust any other source. Especially one from a governemtn that has made misinformation a specialism.

Yep, and as I said, and you ignored, the real figures are significantly higher than what it has. So there we have it, solid for what it is, but by its own admission, wildly inaccurate.

Do you understand the difference between upper bound and lower bound estimates?

Yup, but both are wrong. What do you think the true figures are? For Ukraine and Russia? Lets go with planes, tanks, and troops dead/injured/captured. O'm not saying I know, but from your angle of dismissing what teh Russian MoD say, and giving me your low estimate, which has to be noted isn't balanced, I guess you might be coming from somewhere?

Right. This is my absolutely final response to you, because I really should know better.

1) You are providing Russian MoD data with zero supporting evidence.

2) That is data of what they claim are Ukrainian losses.

3) I am linking to am independent source of evidence-based  RUSSIAN losses.

You equate the two as "wrong". Which misses the point so badly, that you must either be incapable of processing information, or you're deliberately obfuscating.

Have fun. I'm out of this.

I recognise your source is independant, I also note it is using certain info. It may be that Ukraine is taking more pics of its successes? I don't know, neither do you. I also recognise the Russian Mod is going to only go one way with its reports. I already said that, aren't you reading?

You seem to cherry pick what you reply to, and tend to come back with info that is dressed heavily in bias, and rhetoric. You have clearly stated your intention to go with your bias. Your choice.

I started here posting other info from the western mainstream, as well as giving a different perspective from what is frequently western propaganda, or bias if you like. My aim is to look widely to try to understand. I'm not pro Russian, I'm against all imperialist actions. I have said this several times now....

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST here's your "random" targetting, a before and after. White circled are what I'd consider hits, one bang on, one immediately adjacent, and two very close, enough to cause damage. Then 6 circled in blue that look to be in the fields. 4 out of 10 aint bad.

Maybe you know Ukraine is more accurate? Accurate enough to have targetted a hospital with no troops in it.

Did you watch the vid I linked to?

[scawsby steve]

Now that Lithuania has p*ssed Putin off, he's talking again about using Sarmat.

Not looking good.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BRR.
Your desire to see the positive in everything Russia does has made you unable to use your eyes. Watch that video again. There are 14 rocket strikes. Spread over an area that I'd guess is maybe 200m right-left by 100m up-down. That's as far as we can see anyway - some of the strikes are right at the very edge of the screen and it's quite possible that others landed outside the field of view.

Which is precisely my point. That is indiscriminate laying down of non-precision munitions over a wide area. Picture that attack now in an urban area and multiply it by 50 or 100 or 1000. And picture the collateral damage done for every rocket that by fortune finds a target that it is meant for.

Go outside today, where you live. Pace out 200m X 100m. And count up how many houses there are. Pick a dozen at random and imagine those are the targets. Then imagine that indiscriminate rain of rockets pouring down.

Maybe, one day, you might start to question why you support this Russian bestiality, rather than unconditionally condemning it.

[selby]

  I have just read a report where Russian intercepted  signals are reporting Ukrainian forces pushing down the sides of the Russian advance in some areas and the Russian advance forces are in danger of being surrounded.
  If they are surrounded they will come in for some of their own medicine and will be bombarded.
  Also the manpower reserves they have are of very poor quality as far as being recognised as a good fighting unit.

[BobG]

That, I suspect, rather supports Billy's observation that the Russians indiscriminately bombard from a long way away, send in some expendables to find out if they've sufficiently damaged the Ukrainians and repeat as required.What else can you use 'very poor quality' troops for? The Russians even have history doing this. They've even used this sort of recruit to clear minefields for the real soldiers behind them.

BobG

[ravenrover]

And it appears that a lot of the munitions being used by Russia are banned Internationally

"a lot"? Like the cluster bombs? ie the ones that Ukraine is also using? And the one's that spread anti personel mines?

Missing out Phosphorous and Thermobaric. Cluster bombs on civilians are illegal

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR.
Your desire to see the positive in everything Russia does has made you unable to use your eyes. Watch that video again. There are 14 rocket strikes. Spread over an area that I'd guess is maybe 200m right-left by 100m up-down. That's as far as we can see anyway - some of the strikes are right at the very edge of the screen and it's quite possible that others landed outside the field of view.

Which is precisely my point. That is indiscriminate laying down of non-precision munitions over a wide area. Picture that attack now in an urban area and multiply it by 50 or 100 or 1000. And picture the collateral damage done for every rocket that by fortune finds a target that it is meant for.

Go outside today, where you live. Pace out 200m X 100m. And count up how many houses there are. Pick a dozen at random and imagine those are the targets. Then imagine that indiscriminate rain of rockets pouring down.

Maybe, one day, you might start to question why you support this Russian bestiality, rather than unconditionally condemning it.

I saw 4 hits in 10. I've seen vids with miuch worse results than that. Just strange you chose to highlight a vid with obvious hits. Anyway, yes, war weapons are indiscriminate, multiple rocket launchers (the weopon you referenced) are pretty much designed for that. Ukraine too. Though as I said, Ukraine shelling, carpet bombing, Donetsk is deliberate targetting of civilians - a war crime in the present way of thinking. As is the Ukraine tactic of using human shields - eg Mariupol, and the factory they're trapped in in the NE, and in the areas NW of Donetsk. They do choose a lot of schools and hospitals to hang out in.

Eyes blinded? I think you need to look in the mirror, but then you can't see.

"Pace out 200m X 100m. And count up how many houses there are. Pick a dozen at random and imagine those are the targets. Then imagine that indiscriminate rain of rockets pouring down. " a bit randomly vague there. Stick to what you referenced, 7 properties in that area. 10 rockets. 4 hits. pretty good - as far as evil killing machines go.

[Bristol Red Rover]

  I have just read a report where Russian intercepted  signals are reporting Ukrainian forces pushing down the sides of the Russian advance in some areas and the Russian advance forces are in danger of being surrounded.
  If they are surrounded they will come in for some of their own medicine and will be bombarded.
  Also the manpower reserves they have are of very poor quality as far as being recognised as a good fighting unit.

Look at the battle maps. That's not happening as far as i can see, but maybe in a few small places. What you can see are about 5k Ukrainian troops totally trapped in two areas. More in other areas.

Russian reserves may be poor quality. Ukrainian probs much, much worse, and far more poorly equipped. Just saying it how it appears to be.

[Bristol Red Rover]

And it appears that a lot of the munitions being used by Russia are banned Internationally

"a lot"? Like the cluster bombs? ie the ones that Ukraine is also using? And the one's that spread anti personel mines?

Missing out Phosphorous and Thermobaric. Cluster bombs on civilians are illegal

Ukraine has used cluster bombs too. But it actually directly targets civilians (eg Donetsk), and uses them as human shields (eg Mariupol, Sieverodonetsk currently, NW of Donetsk currently). Russia may do do, but far less so - we'd have heard otherwise.

[selby]

  BRR, I think I will believe a British Generals reading of the situation and live and  recordings of Russian officers opinions before the statements and conclusions people like yourself gather from BBC news casts and Facebook.