Ukraine

[Axholme Lion]

Apologies if this has been covered.

I’m just intrigued how and when people think this might end?

Only Putin can end it. This will be when either:

a) he has wiped Ukraine off the map
b) Ukraine has become strong enough to start pushing him back from where he is now
c) the Russian troops refuse to fight and the Russians overthrow him

Only a) or b) seems likely at the moment and the west/NATO appear to be providing enough weaponry to stop a) but not to allow b). I think it will be going on a while yet - then c) gets more likely.

Or when what Russia sees as Russian territories, for whatever reason, are taken - 1/3 to 1/2 of what Ukraine was? At the mo, that appears to be approx Kharkiv downwards and a 50 to 100 mile strip over as far as Moldova.

Russia states a desire to "de nazify" Ukraine too. It is loaded with dodgy thigs, but then so is Russia. And most nations for that matter, including ours.

Then why did they head for Kyiv in the inital invasion?

Putin has said his goal is to wipe Ukraine off the map - its an illegal state and historically part of Russia. This is one of the few occassions when I do believe him. As for de-nazification you have already seen what he means by that - its Ukraine without Ukranians in it.

I stand by my first assesment - he wont be stopping until he has reached the Polish/Romanian borders unless he is forced to.

To take literally what someone says about their intentions can be a foolish way to live your life. They may say that for all kinds of reasons, I'm sure you have enough nouse to realise that.

As I said before, Ukraine means the edge, the border. It has historically been a region, not a place, of fluctuation between a great many different forces or nations. As a kind of buffer zone between Russia and Europe it was fullfilling a purpose, when that changed with NATO and the EU encouraging it into their fold by carrot for the mouth, and carrot for the ass, then the staus quo changed. The coup was the final part in that which burst the bubble. So when one of the forces involved says what was said, context is king.

Denazification - well, there is a strong element of Nazi culture within Ukraine, some of their hero's, some of it their mobster rulers, and some it in their government. And you know about the right wing nationalists who were given guns and tanks and sent to the Donbass. The background to the violent aggression I think that's what's being spoken about. I think removing that from Eastern and Southern Ukraine will most likely be as far as that goes. On balance, in itself, ignoring the warring to achieve that, it's a good thing. Playing it down is a bad thing, though most clearly what the West does. And then of course Russia taking over creates a new level of mobsters in those areas. An improvement maybe marginally, maybe not.

Seeing the above as part of a full takeover of Ukraine is just taking words too literally. Words on a bus if you like.

Russia headed for Kyiv to try it on, and to distract Ukraine troops from the other regions where it consequently very easily seized territory. I'm sure if the Ikraines had laid down their arms, Russia would have happily taken over. Did it, does it want control over the whole of Ukraine? I doubt it. It's a logistical nightmare. Taking a third to a quarter roughly in the areas it has done, plus Khakiv and over to Moldova would be perfect for Russia.

However, as this war progresses, Ukraine collapses ever quicker, there may be a time when taking the whole country is served on a plate for Russia.

Estonia with its partial blockade of Kaliningrad opens up a can of worms. I can see that being a far bigger source of world ending danger than Ukraine.

The baltic states like to play Billy Big Balls hiding behind NATO. Is it Latvia where they still have a commemoration day every year for the SS?

[Bristol Red Rover]

The baltic states like to play Billy Big Balls hiding behind NATO. Is it Latvia where they still have a commemoration day every year for the SS?

It is.

And I meant Lithuania in the previous post not Estonia!

[wilts rover]

You have evidence that it was a missile? I'm not saying it wasn't but quite possibly not.

Do you not have this information from your relentless searching for balanced sources? And your constant fact checking of Russian propoganda? If not - why not - it's easy to find:

CCTV showing the two missiles arriving. First one hits the shopping centre, second one a car plant:

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1541536257716764672


Offical announcement from Russian MOD on the attack on the Kremenchuk shoping cente:

they hit "a train with weapons from the West", after which a detonation occurred and a fire engulfed a non-functioning shopping center nearby.

https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1541707083195760640

Later changed to munitions being stored in a nearby machinery facory (that has not manufactured machinery since 1989 - it was a car plant) 'Detonation of the storaged munitions caused a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the facilities of the plant.'

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1541718651593695233


Satellite images show the destroyed shopping centre and car plant - with intact buildings in-between & no damage to the railway

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1541800890658684928


CCTV showing the first impact was the shopping mall - the second was the car plant

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1541801641766260737

[wilts rover]

The bombing was carried out by 52nd Guards Aviation Regiment (two Kh-22 missiles fired from Tu-22M3 long-range bombers):

https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1541505566056628226


These are the pilots who fired the missiles

https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1541693527104667648

[Bristol Red Rover]

You have evidence that it was a missile? I'm not saying it wasn't but quite possibly not.

Do you not have this information from your relentless searching for balanced sources? And your constant fact checking of Russian propoganda? If not - why not - it's easy to find:

CCTV showing the two missiles arriving. First one hits the shopping centre, second one a car plant:

https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1541536257716764672


Offical announcement from Russian MOD on the attack on the Kremenchuk shoping cente:

they hit "a train with weapons from the West", after which a detonation occurred and a fire engulfed a non-functioning shopping center nearby.

https://twitter.com/Flash43191300/status/1541707083195760640

Later changed to munitions being stored in a nearby machinery facory (that has not manufactured machinery since 1989 - it was a car plant) 'Detonation of the storaged munitions caused a fire in a non-functioning shopping centre next to the facilities of the plant.'

https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/1541718651593695233


Satellite images show the destroyed shopping centre and car plant - with intact buildings in-between & no damage to the railway

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1541800890658684928


CCTV showing the first impact was the shopping mall - the second was the car plant

https://twitter.com/bellingcat/status/1541801641766260737

? So we see, just like I said. Not sure what your whining is about?

Hitting a car plant where the Russians say NATO weapons were being stored to send East. Makes sense as it's next to a railway, maybe their intell was wrong, maybe not. Or maybe NATO aren't supplying weapons, or maybe they are and are delivering them by helicopters right on the frontline in the East? 

Russians also currently say there were 4 hits when I've only seen 2. A bit disorganised in the reporting if there were only 2.

Difficult to see if there is any damage near the railway but probs not.

Last time I looked, cars were machines. Maybe yours is a vegetable these days? What I read is "road machinery plant".

Not sure why you are posting pics of the pilots. Relevant are the comanders who organised the mission. And then I haven't see you posting pics of soldiers shelling people in Donbass. Oh right, you're a corporal in the Billy Blinkers Brigade. "Nothing happening in the Donbass for the last 8 years bar the darn Ruskies stirring trouble and getting their come uppance from the Jolly Yellow Revolution Heros." 

[BobG]

Christ Almighty.... I really am struggling to credit what I am reading.

This is a none debate. This is 1930's Stalinist 'I said it so it is true' propaganda. We all know both sides have done and will do bad things. It's a f**king war. But we also all know who started that war - irrespective of 'who did what to who' beforehand. And, we can all follow the argument put forwards by Wilts. How do you explain, BRR, the lack of damage to the buildings between the destroyed shopping centre and the car plant and no damage to the railway?

But this is like arguing with a potato. It ain't never gonna accept potatoes can end up as chips.

BobG

[Bristol Red Rover]

Christ Almighty.... I really am struggling to credit what I am reading.

This is a none debate. This is 1930's Stalinist 'I said it so it is true' propaganda. We all know both sides have done and will do bad things. It's a f**king war. But we also all know who started that war - irrespective of 'who did what to who' beforehand. And, we can all follow the argument put forwards by Wilts. How do you explain, BRR, the lack of damage to the buildings between the destroyed shopping centre and the car plant and no damage to the railway?

But this is like arguing with a potato. It ain't never gonna accept potatoes can end up as chips.

BobG

You can keep your greasy chips on your shoulder.

Why are you asking me to justify that lack of damage?

[Filo]

Turkey agrees to Finland and Sweden joining NATO, over to mad Vlad to play the next card now!

[scawsby steve]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

[Filo]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

[ravenrover]

300k NATO troops to be put on high alert, mmmm!

[Nudga]

Ukraine will become the 33rd member. Very important number that.

[scawsby steve]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

I'm certainly not an apologist for Putin, but I take his cornered rat nuclear threat very seriously indeed, and I'd like to know what the 3 grinning musketeers intend doing about it.

I hope you realise that the first ones to get Sarmat will be us.

[Bristol Red Rover]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

And quite a few Ukraines fought for the Nazis, and helped them with murdering Jews, Gypsies, etc etc. Not to mention the current nationalist hero cults of Nazis, and the prevelence of Nazi insignia amongst a large section of Ukraine fighters. Russian propaganda? In that it's pumped up yes, but also v true.

[Filo]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

I'm certainly not an apologist for Putin, but I take his cornered rat nuclear threat very seriously indeed, and I'd like to know what the 3 grinning musketeers intend doing about it.

I hope you realise that the first ones to get Sarmat will be us.

The second he launches a Nuke Russia is finished, there will be Nuclear capable subs from  the UK and USA somewhere lurking under water ready to flatten Moscow the very second he launches an attack

And I never suggested you where an apologist, but can see that my post might have come across that way

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile reports from Russia:

In Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic, in a dermatovenerologic dispensary and a clilic, Ukrainian nationalists deployed firing and sniper positions, the approaches to the facility are mined;

In Chernigov, in the regional tuberculosis dispensary, Territorial Defence units deployed their HQs and ordnance depots;

In Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic, in the urban hospital, nationalists deployed firing positions, armoured equipment, large-calibre artillery and MRLS;

Ukrainian nationalist battalions are about to launch missile attacks from residential areas of Krivoy Rog at a hospital in Vysokopolye.

[Filo]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

And quite a few Ukraines fought for the Nazis, and helped them with murdering Jews, Gypsies, etc etc. Not to mention the current nationalist hero cults of Nazis, and the prevelence of Nazi insignia amongst a large section of Ukraine fighters. Russian propaganda? In that it's pumped up yes, but also v true.

My point was more to the fact that Russia are habitual liers

[Bristol Red Rover]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

I'm certainly not an apologist for Putin, but I take his cornered rat nuclear threat very seriously indeed, and I'd like to know what the 3 grinning musketeers intend doing about it.

I hope you realise that the first ones to get Sarmat will be us.

The second he launches a Nuke Russia is finished, there will be Nuclear capable subs from  the UK and USA somewhere lurking under water ready to flatten Moscow the very second he launches an attack

And I never suggested you where an apologist, but can see that my post might have come across that way

What a weird angle to suggest. The second anyone launches a nuke we're all finished.

[Bristol Red Rover]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

And quite a few Ukraines fought for the Nazis, and helped them with murdering Jews, Gypsies, etc etc. Not to mention the current nationalist hero cults of Nazis, and the prevelence of Nazi insignia amongst a large section of Ukraine fighters. Russian propaganda? In that it's pumped up yes, but also v true.

My point was more to the fact that Russia are habitual liers

The same as every major nation on earth then, Ukraine, US, UK up there topping the charts too.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Turkey agrees to Finland and Sweden joining NATO, over to mad Vlad to play the next card now!

I wonder what Turkey was offered for making that decision?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Meanwhile reports from Russia:

In Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic, in a dermatovenerologic dispensary and a clilic, Ukrainian nationalists deployed firing and sniper positions, the approaches to the facility are mined;

In Chernigov, in the regional tuberculosis dispensary, Territorial Defence units deployed their HQs and ordnance depots;

In Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic, in the urban hospital, nationalists deployed firing positions, armoured equipment, large-calibre artillery and MRLS;

Ukrainian nationalist battalions are about to launch missile attacks from residential areas of Krivoy Rog at a hospital in Vysokopolye.

Ok yes, he's Ukranian but have a listen.

 https://youtu.be/g-YKRc_b7CE

We all recall Russia denying the shooting down of MH17.

It's just a catalogue of "Nope, wasn't us. It was them!"

"OK, so it was us. What are you going to do about it!"

 

[wilts rover]

Christ Almighty.... I really am struggling to credit what I am reading.

This is a none debate. This is 1930's Stalinist 'I said it so it is true' propaganda. We all know both sides have done and will do bad things. It's a f**king war. But we also all know who started that war - irrespective of 'who did what to who' beforehand. And, we can all follow the argument put forwards by Wilts. How do you explain, BRR, the lack of damage to the buildings between the destroyed shopping centre and the car plant and no damage to the railway?

But this is like arguing with a potato. It ain't never gonna accept potatoes can end up as chips.

BobG

You can keep your greasy chips on your shoulder.

Why are you asking me to justify that lack of damage?

Because that lack of damage proves the Russian version of events cannot be true. Yet you parrot it without contradiction.

Just like one of the links I gave you leads you to the evidence that the factory hit changed use from a road machinery plant to a car plant in 1989. That you could have found out yourself if you were interested in 'balance' and 'accuracy'.

I posted details of who dropped the missiles because in an earlier post you said you wanted evidence of those missiles being fired.

Now you dont - is it the wrong kind of evidence?

[wilts rover]

Meanwhile reports from Russia:

In Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic, in a dermatovenerologic dispensary and a clilic, Ukrainian nationalists deployed firing and sniper positions, the approaches to the facility are mined;

In Chernigov, in the regional tuberculosis dispensary, Territorial Defence units deployed their HQs and ordnance depots;

In Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic, in the urban hospital, nationalists deployed firing positions, armoured equipment, large-calibre artillery and MRLS;

Ukrainian nationalist battalions are about to launch missile attacks from residential areas of Krivoy Rog at a hospital in Vysokopolye.

Have you ever heard of false flag attacks?

[Filo]

Meanwhile reports from Russia:

In Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic, in a dermatovenerologic dispensary and a clilic, Ukrainian nationalists deployed firing and sniper positions, the approaches to the facility are mined;

In Chernigov, in the regional tuberculosis dispensary, Territorial Defence units deployed their HQs and ordnance depots;

In Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic, in the urban hospital, nationalists deployed firing positions, armoured equipment, large-calibre artillery and MRLS;

Ukrainian nationalist battalions are about to launch missile attacks from residential areas of Krivoy Rog at a hospital in Vysokopolye.

Have you ever heard of false flag attacks?

I think it depends on who is false flagging

[normal rules]

All this is starting to look really grim for the world now. Yet, all those world leaders at the G7 the other day, led by those 3 w*nkers, Johnson, Biden, and Macron, thought it hilarious to joke and laugh about Putin's bare chested horse riding caper.

The way that Russia is getting hemmed in by Nato now, is making it more likely that World War 3 and nuclear conflict is the most probable endgame in all this.

Possible Armageddon, and that lot seem to think it's funny.

Putin has only himself to blame for Sweden and Finland wanting to join NATO, make no mistake if Ukraine would have kept the nukes when the Soviet Union dissolved, Putin would not be anywhere in Ukraine now, he lied when he offered security to Ukraine for giving them up, he lied when he said they had no intentions  of invading Ukraine just before he did, the apologists for him can say all they want in his defence, but they are habitual liers, they even jumped into bed with the Nazis in WW2 with the molotov Robbentrp pact!

I'm certainly not an apologist for Putin, but I take his cornered rat nuclear threat very seriously indeed, and I'd like to know what the 3 grinning musketeers intend doing about it.

I hope you realise that the first ones to get Sarmat will be us.

The second he launches a Nuke Russia is finished, there will be Nuclear capable subs from  the UK and USA somewhere lurking under water ready to flatten Moscow the very second he launches an attack

And I never suggested you where an apologist, but can see that my post might have come across that way

The second any nuke is launched, by anyone in this total f**k up, we are all finished. 20 minutes and kiss goodbye to London. Followed by every single strategic site they have pre plotted into their computer firing sequences. Nothing left habitable in the uk. We would literally disappear from the map. And we have nothing to stop it.

[SydneyRover]

Can we have the email address for your neighbour BRR?

[wilts rover]

2 people killed, 6 injured by Russian shelling in Kharkiv Oblast in 1 day.

2 civilians were killed, 1 injured by shelling of Tsyrkyny village northeast of Kharkiv. Five people were injured by shelling in the southeastern part of Kharkiv.

Source: Governor Oleh Syniehubov.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1541890541989814275

[Bristol Red Rover]

Christ Almighty.... I really am struggling to credit what I am reading.

This is a none debate. This is 1930's Stalinist 'I said it so it is true' propaganda. We all know both sides have done and will do bad things. It's a f**king war. But we also all know who started that war - irrespective of 'who did what to who' beforehand. And, we can all follow the argument put forwards by Wilts. How do you explain, BRR, the lack of damage to the buildings between the destroyed shopping centre and the car plant and no damage to the railway?

But this is like arguing with a potato. It ain't never gonna accept potatoes can end up as chips.

BobG

You can keep your greasy chips on your shoulder.

Why are you asking me to justify that lack of damage?

Because that lack of damage proves the Russian version of events cannot be true. Yet you parrot it without contradiction.

Just like one of the links I gave you leads you to the evidence that the factory hit changed use from a road machinery plant to a car plant in 1989. That you could have found out yourself if you were interested in 'balance' and 'accuracy'.

I posted details of who dropped the missiles because in an earlier post you said you wanted evidence of those missiles being fired.

Now you dont - is it the wrong kind of evidence?

The version where they said that it caught fire? Yep, though I don't believe I posted that, certainly not saying it was the truth. I was waiting for info to come through. And it has. Yes you posted some links.

Pilots - fair enough, but you see my points there.

Parotting - Kettle pot black there, and some.

Car plant, road machinery plant.... think you're lost in irrelevance. There were reports of heavy weapons being stored there. That's the story. If so, why are they storing heavy weapons next to civilians? Duh! But then they have missile factories in Kyiv next to homes, and place their artilerry in hospitals etc etc. That's a story innit.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Meanwhile reports from Russia:

In Bakhmut, Donetsk People's Republic, in a dermatovenerologic dispensary and a clilic, Ukrainian nationalists deployed firing and sniper positions, the approaches to the facility are mined;

In Chernigov, in the regional tuberculosis dispensary, Territorial Defence units deployed their HQs and ordnance depots;

In Seversk, Donetsk People's Republic, in the urban hospital, nationalists deployed firing positions, armoured equipment, large-calibre artillery and MRLS;

Ukrainian nationalist battalions are about to launch missile attacks from residential areas of Krivoy Rog at a hospital in Vysokopolye.

Have you ever heard of false flag attacks?

I'd always be suspicious of this, not least because it comes from the Russian MoD. I'm just passing on this info. I have seen fairly convincing vids of Russians taking over such buildings where there is a lot of evidence of Ukraines being based there.

We'll see what happens.

[SydneyRover]

Post the videos and the links BRR so everyone can assess the ''fairly convincing evidence''