Ukraine

[Filo]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

I think the "losses" on both sides figures for personel includes injured.

Notable that Ukraine tends to give generalised claims of numbers whereas Russia specifies the region and the TBG effected.

How either can claim to know of numbers of personel effected except in a few specific incidences is beyond me.

Whilst the Donbas situation slowly heads one direction, the sitiation in the south west is interesting with Ukraine talking up it's imminent assault there, and at the same time Russia appears to be gathering forces to attack towards Mykoaiv - something of a showdown.

No one is interested in your Putin love in anymore

[Bristol Red Rover]

No one is interested in your Putin love in anymore

Hey, just keep believing the propaganda you're reading and watching. There are two sides to this, and yes propaganda on both sides, but it seems you're simply sucking up to one side. Why is that?

And try speaking for yourself rather than making out you speak for everyone. Evidently a fallacy.

[Bristol Red Rover]

BST, Wilts - HIMARS. Seems pretty sound to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO-Qo5qw4U0

[wilts rover]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

[BillyStubbsTears]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

The Secretary General of the UN was almost in tears yesterday at the signing of this treaty. Said it was the most important agreement he'd ever facilitated.  Because without it, 400 million people in the Middle East and North Africa were at risk of famine.

It's THAT important.

Then within 24 hours, that Kitson in the Kremlin sends this message. It's obvious what he's saying. "This is what I think of the deal I've just signed. This is what I'll do if I get pressurised by you lot. Because at heart, I am a moral abomination and I WILL use the threat of famine as a weapon, just like Stalin did before me."

[Ldr]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

The Secretary General of the UN was almost in tears yesterday at the signing of this treaty. Said it was the most important agreement he'd ever facilitated.  Because without it, 400 million people in the Middle East and North Africa were at risk of famine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb8W4Q2nvEM

Unless Ive missed something there I'm calling more Billy Bullshit, are you capable of telling the truth about anything anymore. #ForumBoris

[BillyStubbsTears]

Happy to accept that I may be wrongly attri using this to Guterres. I heard someone say it on the radio last night and thought it was Guterres, but if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

Thanks for pointing that out Ldr. The vehemence with which you did it is a tad disturbing, as the substantive points are correct [1] but if it helps you sleep at night to be convinced that I'm deliberately lying, then fill your boots.

[1] Guterres's under Sec Gen for Trade said on the R4 PM programme yesterday that 20 countries depended on Ukraine for 50% of  their food imports. An American Prof of Crisis Relief said 400 million relied on Black Sea food imports. The UN Special Envoy said this deal was "unprecedented" and "extraordinary". All the substantive content is correct.

[Bristol Red Rover]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

[Axholme Lion]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

Ukrainian losses? We don't seem to hear much about from western propaganda sources do we?

[glosterred]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

Ukrainian losses? We don't seem to hear much about from western propaganda sources do we?

Why would we and indeed why should we the west is supporting those that have been invaded not those that have invaded

[wilts rover]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

No, I am equating lying with a liar. Putin said he would stop attacking Odessa - he attacked Odessa.

Putin said the troop movements in Belorus were just planned training and not a build up to invade Ukraine. He invaded Ukraine.

[Axholme Lion]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

Ukrainian losses? We don't seem to hear much about from western propaganda sources do we?

Why would we and indeed why should we the west is supporting those that have been invaded not those that have invaded

Don't you want to know?

[glosterred]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

Ukrainian losses? We don't seem to hear much about from western propaganda sources do we?

Why would we and indeed why should we the west is supporting those that have been invaded not those that have invaded

Don't you want to know?

Got to say I’m not overly interested in either side's losses as with each loss there is very likely someone’s death involved. But if I was to pick a side to whom I would be interested in seeing their losses, I’ve got to say that I would rather see the death or destruction of of an invader than I would of the invaded.

[Axholme Lion]

Ukraine’s military destroys Russian ammunition depot in southern Ukraine.

Operational Command “South” said it destroyed a Russian multiple rocket launcher, three armored personnel carriers, two heavy artillery, and six military vehicles. They also killed 93 Russian troops.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550627320188248066

This takes the Ukraine Armed Forces estimates of Russian losses to date to include:

39,240 troops
1.708 tanks
2.802 supply vehicles
3,929 APV's
864 artillery systems
253 MLR's

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1550735629704740864

Ukrainian losses? We don't seem to hear much about from western propaganda sources do we?

Why would we and indeed why should we the west is supporting those that have been invaded not those that have invaded

Don't you want to know?

Got to say I’m not overly interested in either side's losses as with each loss there is very likely someone’s death involved. But if I was to pick a side to whom I would be interested in seeing their losses, I’ve got to say that I would rather see the death or destruction of of an invader than I would of the invaded.

You would need to know if you want to know how long you can realistically carry on the fight until the inevitable happens.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

[Bristol Red Rover]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

No, I am equating lying with a liar. Putin said he would stop attacking Odessa - he attacked Odessa.

Putin said the troop movements in Belorus were just planned training and not a build up to invade Ukraine. He invaded Ukraine.

Did he say that about Odessa? I understood that military targets would be struck. If Ukraine has weapons, or military boats there, they are targets, surely?

Were grain exports hit?

[glosterred]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

[Dutch Uncle]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

Two questions:

If you were a port worker working on the grain cargoes would you go to work if missiles (which might or might not be accurate) were flying anywhere around the port?

Second if you were a cargo ship owner, captain or insurer would you allow a ship to enter a port with missiles flying around

The obvious answers are no, so a grain deal would seem to be scuppered regardless of whether grain was hit. No-one has trust or belief in the Russians over this deal.

On the other hand interesting, if I read correctly, that Putin seems first to have denied it was Russian missiles but said he would launch an investigation, and now unusually the Russians have admitted it was them. Maybe a lower level commander made the decision which would be unusual. Doesn't change the effects though.

[wilts rover]

22nd July - Russia concludes historic humanitarian peace agreement to allow grain shipments to leave the port of Odessa to ease acute food shortage in third world countries.

23rd Juy - Russia fires missile into Odessa port

https://twitter.com/Reevellp/status/1550817931059232769?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

False flag? NATO? 'Both sides'

You get into bed with a liar that's all you get. Lied to.

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

Two questions:

If you were a port worker working on the grain cargoes would you go to work if missiles (which might or might not be accurate) were flying anywhere around the port?

Second if you were a cargo ship owner, captain or insurer would you allow a ship to enter a port with missiles flying around

The obvious answers are no, so a grain deal would seem to be scuppered regardless of whether grain was hit. No-one has trust or belief in the Russians over this deal.

On the other hand interesting, if I read correctly, that Putin seems first to have denied it was Russian missiles but said he would launch an investigation, and now unusually the Russians have admitted it was them. Maybe a lower level commander made the decision which would be unusual. Doesn't change the effects though.

That's easy to explain Dutch. He denied it was a Russian missile until videos of a Russian missile came out (and they have probably recovered bits now) to prove he was wrong. Then when that lie has been debunked - come out with another one. It's what liars do - Johnson has made a career out of it.

[Axholme Lion]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

[Filo]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

[Axholme Lion]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

A sovereign country? It's debatable if it should even be considered as such.

[glosterred]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

A sovereign country? It's debatable if it should even be considered as such.

No it’s not debatable, it was a sovereign country in its own right, a country recognised by the UN. It was Russian (the invader) aggression against its neighbour, Ukraine (the invaded) that is the problem here. Sooner you and the rest of Putins mouth pieces realise and accept this the better for everyone, especially the sovereign country of Ukraine

[Axholme Lion]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

A sovereign country? It's debatable if it should even be considered as such.

No it’s not debatable, it was a sovereign country in its own right, a country recognised by the UN. It was Russian (the invader) aggression against its neighbour, Ukraine (the invaded) that is the problem here. Sooner you and the rest of Putins mouth pieces realise and accept this the better for everyone, especially the sovereign country of Ukraine

It would have been 'better for everyone' if the west hadn't instigated the over throw of the legitimate government.

[glosterred]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

A sovereign country? It's debatable if it should even be considered as such.

No it’s not debatable, it was a sovereign country in its own right, a country recognised by the UN. It was Russian (the invader) aggression against its neighbour, Ukraine (the invaded) that is the problem here. Sooner you and the rest of Putins mouth pieces realise and accept this the better for everyone, especially the sovereign country of Ukraine

It would have been 'better for everyone' if the west hadn't instigated the over throw of the legitimate government.

Seems the Russians are trying to do the same now

[Bristol Red Rover]

If it hit grain silos that would be bad, but what was hit? What was the target? Or are you just equating port with grain silo like western media, because that's simple weak flakey propaganda.

Two questions:

If you were a port worker working on the grain cargoes would you go to work if missiles (which might or might not be accurate) were flying anywhere around the port?

Second if you were a cargo ship owner, captain or insurer would you allow a ship to enter a port with missiles flying around

The obvious answers are no, so a grain deal would seem to be scuppered regardless of whether grain was hit. No-one has trust or belief in the Russians over this deal.

On the other hand interesting, if I read correctly, that Putin seems first to have denied it was Russian missiles but said he would launch an investigation, and now unusually the Russians have admitted it was them. Maybe a lower level commander made the decision which would be unusual. Doesn't change the effects though.

If Ukraine is storing weapons at the port, they make it a target. Just like how they constantly install artillery and so on adjacent to civilians. Maybe propaganda but from what I'm seeing Russia does tend to refrain from artillery attacks in those human shield situations, whjich arguably is one of the reasons Ukraine perseists, alongside them knowing they get good publicity for more western weapons any time civilians are affected.

Having warships near other ships is likely to result in problems too.

So no, if I were a worker I'd not be wanting to risk my life with weapons being stored nearby, and likewise having a ship, I wouldn't want it going to a port which is a military target. I'd also be wary of going there if it's surrounded by mines which it is.

I suspect plans for targetting went ahead as usual. Putin may well have intended them to stop or pause but the word didn't get through so the action caught him by surprise - I doubt he has his finger on or off every missile in this conflict. Maybe he was cynical, but that doesn't really add up.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Invader v invaded - if it were only so simple. I've made my thoughts on that clear already. I also made my thoughts clear on regime change from external interference. Whilst the US and its friends make that a regular part of their worldwide "policing" the shit usually hits the fan, the case of Ukraine being up there with the worst messes.

#billyblinkersbrigade

Invader v invaded it is that simple, none of what is happening now would not be happening if Russia (the invader) hadn’t illegally invaded Ukraine (the invaded). Everything else is secondary to the fact that Russia (the invader) invaded.

#BRRPutinsMouthPiece

What were they supposed to do? Allow Ukraine to join NATO and have there forces sat on their doorstep? US/NATO/EU all share the responsibility for this. It's not a case of goodies v baddies.

Ukraine as a sovereign  country can choose whoever they want to join, not be bullied by another country, Russia are paranoid

They can, but explain the coup. That was not even solely an internal coup, and it was far from democratic.

Ukraine is bullied from two sides not one. There is no doubt about that whatsoever. even more relevant is that the US has been planning this for decades.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Seems the Russians are trying to do the same now

So the US etc instigating regime change was okay?

[Bristol Red Rover]

That's easy to explain Dutch. He denied it was a Russian missile until videos of a Russian missile came out (and they have probably recovered bits now) to prove he was wrong. Then when that lie has been debunked - come out with another one. It's what liars do - Johnson has made a career out of it.

Lies... or confusion? I'll give you the beneft of the doubt here and accept your apology. Or maybe you can show where I said that?

I note you weren't able to reply to what I asked you about this incident.

[glosterred]

Seems the Russians are trying to do the same now

So the US etc instigating regime change was okay?

Have I ever said it was? Neither is the illegal invasion of a sovereign country. Two wrongs don’t  make a right