Ukraine

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hands up from me by the way. I said at the start that I couldn't see any endgame that didn't leave Russia in control of the Donbas. Looking like I massively over estimated Russia's ability and under estimated Ukraine's will.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Normal media outlets are not keeping up with how rapidly this is developing.

Here's maps from the Russian side indicating the scale of the Ukrainian offensive.

https://mobile.twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1568542670200397825

For a sense of the size of that, top to bottom of that map is about the distance from Donny to Newcastle.

[BobG]

The Skripals were not the first 'dissidents' to be poisoned in the UK and of course there maybe more we don't know of. The price of free speech.

''Bulgarian dissident Georgi Markov ‘shot’ by killer poison pellet from an umbrella''

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/bulgarian-dissident-georgi-markov-shot-by-killer-poison-pellet-from-an-umbrella/news-story/1263538e609b4927ebd103bc8f3ac3c2

'Wet work' sub contracted to the Bulgarians. On Waterloo Bridge if memory serves.

BobG

[River Don]

The UK press are all still in full on Queen news...

While it looks very much like Russian forces are getting routed. All the information on the war in the papers is hidden away and by the look of it quite a bit out of date.

[BillyStubbsTears]

To be fair, the mainstream media are all out of date as soon as they go to press on this issue. Things are changing a lightning speed.

But yes, it's fascinating that, while a battle is going on that is going to shape the rest of this century, our main news provider is focussed on sepia-tinged memories of a bygone Britain.

[River Don]

I won't link to it because it's The Express that have a report that Putin is furious after one of his generals online, drunk, told him to f... Off.

Obviously this can't be verified but I do hope it's true.

[BobG]

That has made me smile RD! Even if it's not true it's still funny

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ahh. My mistake. It was all a plan by the Russians to "relocate"

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1568605179594903553

[BillyStubbsTears]

Sounds like Ukraine has taken back Donetsk airport which they lost control of in 2015.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I think we're seeing the effect of hundreds of Ukranian Troops returning from training on various weapon systems in a number of NATO countries and now putting those systems and equipment to full use.

I wouldn't believe however we've seen the end of Russian atrocities for one minute. They appear to be in disarray, out of control and capable of anything from surrendering, laying down arms, discarding uniforms and running away to pillaging anything they can lay their hands on whilst they retreat. Further random missile strikes may follow once their troops are out of the way.

The higher ranks seem to be the first to scarper leaving the front line troops to fend for themselves. More cannon fodder.

We can only hope the news filtering back to Russia will lead to anger and uprising.

[SydneyRover]

Ahh. My mistake. It was all a plan by the Russians to "relocate"

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1568605179594903553

Let's hope the next media release is 'our job is done and we're going home'

[ncRover]

Hands up from me by the way. I said at the start that I couldn't see any endgame that didn't leave Russia in control of the Donbas. Looking like I massively over estimated Russia's ability and under estimated Ukraine's will.

I had similar thoughts. This is now amazing news, hopefully the news keeps us up to date!

https://twitter.com/dangerkidsbooks/status/1568622184435949568?s=46&t=mdk_xOjYhZez4aEOD-gMtg

[BillyStubbsTears]

Reports are that Russia has responded to the crushing defeat on the battlefield by firing a salvo of $13m KH-101 missiles at the main power station serving Kharkhiv.

Animals. Absolute animals.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

As one liberated Ukranian said

"What they did not destroy, they stole, she says, including forks and spoons, and the shoes from a pensioner's feet"

Entirely expected, once the troops retreat leaving their ammunition and armour behind, sometimes being left to walk by their generals, nicking civilian cars to make their escape, the missiles follow

Quite ironic they can hit a power station with precision, having hit hundreds of civilian buildings  by accident.

Can only hope Putin and his generals are brought to account by the Russian people for atrocities against their own, nevermind the nation of Ukraine.

[BobG]

[quote author=DonnyBazR0ver link=topic=283806.msg1185911#msg1185911

Quite ironic they can hit a power station with precision, having hit hundreds of civilian buildings  by accident.

[/quote]

THIS!

BobG

[Filo]

The Ukraines are at the border with Russia, Belgorod is 25 miles away well within range of missile strikes, perhaps the Russians should receive some missile back

[Filo]

Updates from the Russia apologists seem to have disappeared the last few days, are they on the run as well

[BillyStubbsTears]

Some of the experts in Moscow are getting the message.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1569070513909022720

The bit from 3:30 is classic.

The Kitson of a presenter talking about whether they should "Do something to Ukraine to sober these people up." Not difficult to interpret what THAT means.

Then the response that in measured terms tells him that Russia has lost.

The final two sentences at the very end of the video would be nerve tingling in a thriller movie, nevermind being played out for real.

[SydneyRover]

Openly stating on Russian tv the Ukraine cannot be defeated .................

[BillyStubbsTears]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/1564408136378843136

This aged well.

At some point you have to ask if Fox News is actually a Kremlin organisation.

[Dutch Uncle]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Acyn/status/1564408136378843136

This aged well.

At some point you have to ask if Fox News is actually a Kremlin organisation.

Fox is in Trump’s pocket, and Trump gives every impression of being beholden to Putin, remember Trump hailing Putin’s declaring independent breakaway states in Donbas as ‘genius’

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I wonder how Russian state TV would chew on this one.

It appears, with all the abandoned military hardware and ammunition following this counteroffensive, the biggest arms supplier to Ukraine is.....Russia!!

[Panda]

I wonder how Russian state TV would chew on this one.

It appears, with all the abandoned military hardware and ammunition following this counteroffensive, the biggest arms supplier to Ukraine is.....Russia!!

That's good news then. Maybe now the UK Government can spend a bit more on destitute UK citizens and less on weapons for another country.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder how Russian state TV would chew on this one.

It appears, with all the abandoned military hardware and ammunition following this counteroffensive, the biggest arms supplier to Ukraine is.....Russia!!

That's good news then. Maybe now the UK Government can spend a bit more on destitute UK citizens and less on weapons for another country.

Once again, you need to look at the big picture. If we stopped supporting Ukraine and allowed Putin to walk all over them, do you think we'd be in a better long term position?

What you're saying is akin to someone saying they'll save money on house insurance to spend more on food, when their next door but two neighbour is trying to burn down next door but one's house.

[Panda]

It's not akin to anything.

More money spent on UK please and less on Ukraine. Either go in and help end the war, now - not in 12 months / years but now. Or don't and focus on Britain a lot more.

[BobG]

'Go in and help end the war'. Really? If that means send in troops, I suspect you will be in a minority of one with that view Panda. What consequences would you anticipate if Britain did follow your advice?

BobG

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why does it have to be either/or?

What specifically is wrong with an approach that is clearly beating Putin without going all in?

And as I keep saying, if you stop supporting Ukraine now because the economic cost is too high (it isn't - it's peanuts in the big scheme of things) where do you think Putin stops? If he realises that he can squeeze our balls over gas and we'll back off, you reckon he won't do it again and again?

[Metalmicky]

"More money spent on UK"........ I see our new WUM is trying to be edgy (and relevant) like in other threads.

Meanwhile.............. there are some very disturbing atrocities happening in the liberated towns and villages...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/bodies-left-to-rot-as-people-describe-burying-neighbours-life-in-a-liberated-village-after-russians-retreat/ar-AA11ILtg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d746d80b8885498f9bcd336888e406e8

[Mike_F]

I've struggled to find much news of the war in Ukraine over the last few days. Reading the last couple of pages of this thread gives great cause for optimism that we may soon see an end to the conflict.

Putin's message of condolence to the UK in the wake of the Queen's death has been well publicised; I doubt that this is coincidental if he needs to grasp at any faint chance of building bridges after his failed invasion.

It's also very encouraging for Europe and the UK that Russia's invasion left most of Ukraine relatively unscathed as I would hope and expect that this will mean wheat and sunflower harvests are much better than we may have feared.

[Panda]

"More money spent on UK"........ I see our new WUM is trying to be edgy (and relevant) like in other threads.

Meanwhile.............. there are some very disturbing atrocities happening in the liberated towns and villages...

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/bodies-left-to-rot-as-people-describe-burying-neighbours-life-in-a-liberated-village-after-russians-retreat/ar-AA11ILtg?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d746d80b8885498f9bcd336888e406e8

Yeah. I live in the UK mate. Not Ukraine. If we want to help Ukraine then fine. Do it properly otherwise row back and focus on us in Britain. That WUM enough? Whatever the f**k WUM means?