Ukraine

[Metalmicky]

So much for the mobilization of "reservists"....

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Putin-Forces-All-Energy-Workers-To-Register-For-Military-Draft.html

[SydneyRover]

I guess the 'new' middle class that can afford to are heading for the border

[Metalmicky]

Even if they’ve had absolutely no training prior to departure and are just shoved on a train, it is going to be at least a month before this fine body of men make it to the front line - wherever that line may end up being.... although considering their logistical competencies to date - I would suggest it may take considerably longer..

If they do arrive within this time scale, they will be arriving just as winter breaks.... so, in my opinion, their first consideration should not be getting shot, it should be dying of frostbite/exposure without sufficient kit or logistical support.

[Redroy]

A few of Putin's well trained, combat experienced 300,00 fighters here - https://twitter.com/francis_scarr/status/1573295980635643907?s=20&t=zjdU_oXQtEx-lxWxKS_nog. Class.

[Mike_F]

I'm genuinely getting a bit worried that we're closer to nuclear war than we've ever been.

Putin has the look of a lone wolf mass shooter about him right now. Doesn't matter if he goes down as long as he causes as much death and destruction as possible.

[BessieBlue]

One of the problems with Putin is the guff he utters and reality - you cannot rely on anything he says from denying Russia was behind the Salisbury poisonings to everything is going to plan. The nazis governing Ukraine is another piece of guff and the liberation of that country by Russia. There is a pattern with Putin - guess what it is?

[wilts rover]

Footage of how the referendums are being conducted - spoiler alert - they turn up at your house with a clipboard and machine gun

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1573342724077801475

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russia will never give up on its attempt to land grab eastern Ukraine. Ukraine will never want to give any of it up. There has to be a compromise here. Perhaps the people of Donbas will vot with their feet later this week . If they do. Let Russia have it . Both sides are going to have to concede something soon for all this to end . Let’s not think about the alternative .

They Ukrainians in Donbas have left their homeland. There are 9 million displaced people from there. Of course the sham referendums will indicate that there is a majority for union with Russia.

What you are saying is that we should all be complicit in allowing Russia that gain for their aggression.

And then what? What happens when Putin decides he's having the Baltics? Or Moldova? Or Poland?

There's a simple decision here. You stop Putin here and now. Or you let him dictate the future to Europe.

Seems you miss the point of the referenda. Its for implementing the new moves re increasing troops.

[Bristol Red Rover]

"The two gun story isn't relating to anything but your fantasy."

Really..... That, I am now convinced, sums up your knowledge of history Bristol. It didn't happen all the time, and it happened less and less as Allied manufacturing got to grips with the need, but happen it did - although on a different level to 8 men and 2 guns. Companies, regiments and even brigades. Prisoners released to walk,  unarmed, in front of troops sometimes too... to clear the minefields. They had Comrades pointing, and firing, guns at them too.

BobG

I was talking about his fantasy about the current situation Bob

[Metalmicky]

Not seen it yet, but made me laugh....

[BillyStubbsTears]

Russia will never give up on its attempt to land grab eastern Ukraine. Ukraine will never want to give any of it up. There has to be a compromise here. Perhaps the people of Donbas will vot with their feet later this week . If they do. Let Russia have it . Both sides are going to have to concede something soon for all this to end . Let’s not think about the alternative .

They Ukrainians in Donbas have left their homeland. There are 9 million displaced people from there. Of course the sham referendums will indicate that there is a majority for union with Russia.

What you are saying is that we should all be complicit in allowing Russia that gain for their aggression.

And then what? What happens when Putin decides he's having the Baltics? Or Moldova? Or Poland?

There's a simple decision here. You stop Putin here and now. Or you let him dictate the future to Europe.

Seems you miss the point of the referenda. Its for implementing the new moves re increasing troops.

Is
It
f**k

It's Putin's stupid bullying attempt to pass off the occupied provinces of Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaphorizya and Kherson as being part Mother Russia, so that any attack on them can theoretically be claimed to be an attack on Russian soil, justifying the use of nukes as defence.

It's what a deranged thug-bully would try to pull off to save face in the impending threat of a total defeat.

It won't happen because his military would do him in before authorising such an act of suicide.

But you keep telling yourself he has a strategy he's working to. Like the fascist dictator fanboy you are. 

[Bristol Red Rover]

Why do you look to the hysterical, and react in that way? It's almost like you're the successful prime target of western propaganda. Though to be fair there's many more on here drinking from the same cauldron.

It is about mobilising. If Ukraine doesn't attack the territories then Russia will have problems with its mobilisation, if not now then in the future. Sure the nuke option is there but they won't be using that. And really, if Ukraine wants to nuke, they will anyway. Just as the west would - not that you'd believe that as you are lost in a bubble.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I can see why he is doing what he is doing, which is actually what the Russian leaders are doing, this is far from just Putin. Nice for you to fall in line again with the western propaganda - Hitler has only got one ball eh! In terms of a chess game, he's trashing the west, not sure what the west will do when it's lost it's Ukraine pawn. Or maybe you can't see that?

[Filo]

Why do you look to the hysterical, and react in that way? It's almost like you're the successful prime target of western propaganda. Though to be fair there's many more on here drinking from the same cauldron.

It is about mobilising. If Ukraine doesn't attack the territories then Russia will have problems with its mobilisation, if not now then in the future. Sure the nuke option is there but they won't be using that. And really, if Ukraine wants to nuke, they will anyway. Just as the west would - not that you'd believe that as you are lost in a bubble.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I can see why he is doing what he is doing, which is actually what the Russian leaders are doing, this is far from just Putin. Nice for you to fall in line again with the western propaganda - Hitler has only got one ball eh! In terms of a chess game, he's trashing the west, not sure what the west will do when it's lost it's Ukraine pawn. Or maybe you can't see that?

You are deluded!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Nearly. I caught myself thinking you made a point 

[normal rules]

Russia will never give up on its attempt to land grab eastern Ukraine. Ukraine will never want to give any of it up. There has to be a compromise here. Perhaps the people of Donbas will vot with their feet later this week . If they do. Let Russia have it . Both sides are going to have to concede something soon for all this to end . Let’s not think about the alternative .

They Ukrainians in Donbas have left their homeland. There are 9 million displaced people from there. Of course the sham referendums will indicate that there is a majority for union with Russia.

What you are saying is that we should all be complicit in allowing Russia that gain for their aggression.

And then what? What happens when Putin decides he's having the Baltics? Or Moldova? Or Poland?

There's a simple decision here. You stop Putin here and now. Or you let him dictate the future to Europe.

Ok. Putin is pushed back, back to the Russian border, his armed forces are decimated, and Ukraine then attack beyond their borders into Russia. Then what?
Putin, backed into a corner. A failed conflict. An armed force a glimmer of what it once was. A global power a shadow of its former self. But it still has a nuclear option.
This is the doomsday scenario.
Putin. The cornered rat.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Ukraine won't put a toe over the border into true Russia.

[SydneyRover]

In this case Ukraine is the rat being cornered by putin.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Following the Russian moves, Ukraine appears to be further mobilising including recently preventing a lower age group leaving the territory.

Before these extra, there's approx 1 million Ukraines serving of which approx 700k are troops (the rest are police etc), and of them at least 100k dead or wounded. Yes BST, rough figures, but lets see yours before you criticise. With the recent Russian injection of troops, which is likely to be more than 300k, it's going to be roughly even in numbers, though the Russians are more experienced.

I have heard that the extra Ukraine mobilisation could be from 1 to 3 million. How well they can be armed will be the issue. And then will Russia respond with further call ups? Ultimately Russia has far far more available, but the further the call ups go, the lower the quality - just the same for Ukraine. The biggest part of this will be so many lower quality troops on both sides being slaughtered.

[glosterred]

Ukraine wouldn’t have needed to mobilise had Russia not invaded. Any country that is illegally invaded by their neighbours has every right to defend itself and mobilise its citizens to protect itself

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah but...NATO! EU!

[wilts rover]

Why do you look to the hysterical, and react in that way? It's almost like you're the successful prime target of western propaganda. Though to be fair there's many more on here drinking from the same cauldron.

It is about mobilising. If Ukraine doesn't attack the territories then Russia will have problems with its mobilisation, if not now then in the future. Sure the nuke option is there but they won't be using that. And really, if Ukraine wants to nuke, they will anyway. Just as the west would - not that you'd believe that as you are lost in a bubble.

I'm no fan of Putin, but I can see why he is doing what he is doing, which is actually what the Russian leaders are doing, this is far from just Putin. Nice for you to fall in line again with the western propaganda - Hitler has only got one ball eh! In terms of a chess game, he's trashing the west, not sure what the west will do when it's lost it's Ukraine pawn. Or maybe you can't see that?

'I'm no fan of Putin' - it's just a coincidence I happen to agree with everything he is doing, the way he is doing it defend his actions from any and all scrutiny and criticise anything those opposing him say.

[BobG]

I just watched an American made documentary about 'Putin's Road to War'. It's being broadcast over here on the PBS America network on Channel 84 on Freeview.

Although some will criticise it for using emotive photographs and videos, I was super impressed, and scared, by the history of the last 22 years of Putin. We forget a lot. But lay it out, historical fact after historical fact, and the picture it paints of Putin is downright nasty. It'll be repeated. It's worth an hour of anybody's time.

BobG

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interviews with people in Mariupol focusing on the referendum. You may disagree, but I don't see that these people are actors. What is said goes with everything I've seen and heard directly, as opposed to 2nd and 3rd hand reports from Western/Ukraine media.

You can go back to hear what the previous guy said but this one, and the woman after describe clearly what happened there in the fighting.

https://youtu.be/UE2J0leMgdU?t=740

[turnbull for england]

I wouldn't trust the bloke in the hoody to give me directions to a bus stop

[BillyStubbsTears]

Run that "everything I've seen and heard directly"  bit by me again BRR.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I just watched an American made documentary about 'Putin's Road to War'. It's being broadcast over here on the PBS America network on Channel 84 on Freeview.

Although some will criticise it for using emotive photographs and videos, I was super impressed, and scared, by the history of the last 22 years of Putin. We forget a lot. But lay it out, historical fact after historical fact, and the picture it paints of Putin is downright nasty. It'll be repeated. It's worth an hour of anybody's time.

BobG

I haven't seen this yet. It's a US made docu, and from what I can see the writer is very firmly on the Democrat side of things. Nothing else he has done seems to challenge the US interference on the world. Do you think the perspective and spin here may be coming from a position of wanting to do down Putin?

[Bristol Red Rover]

I wouldn't trust the bloke in the hoody to give me directions to a bus stop

Fair enough, and the others? The woman?

[Redroy]

Interviews with people in Mariupol focusing on the referendum. You may disagree, but I don't see that these people are actors. What is said goes with everything I've seen and heard directly, as opposed to 2nd and 3rd hand reports from Western/Ukraine media.

You can go back to hear what the previous guy said but this one, and the woman after describe clearly what happened there in the fighting.

https://youtu.be/UE2J0leMgdU?t=740

But you're just linking to a random YouTuber guy embedded in Russian forces. No different to those reports coming through from the other outlets who are part of the Western Conspiracy. The fact is there is a tonne of ethnic Russian people in many parts of Ukraine who have their own opinions and viewpoints. You are going to get that anywhere.

[Redroy]

I just watched an American made documentary about 'Putin's Road to War'. It's being broadcast over here on the PBS America network on Channel 84 on Freeview.

Although some will criticise it for using emotive photographs and videos, I was super impressed, and scared, by the history of the last 22 years of Putin. We forget a lot. But lay it out, historical fact after historical fact, and the picture it paints of Putin is downright nasty. It'll be repeated. It's worth an hour of anybody's time.

BobG

I haven't seen this yet. It's a US made docu, and from what I can see the writer is very firmly on the Democrat side of things. Nothing else he has done seems to challenge the US interference on the world. Do you think the perspective and spin here may be coming from a position of wanting to do down Putin?

What you have linked to is also 'US made'. He's American.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Run that "everything I've seen and heard directly"  bit by me again BRR.

Countless interviews. Following the path of destruction.

What have you heard and from where?