Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

I just watched an American made documentary about 'Putin's Road to War'. It's being broadcast over here on the PBS America network on Channel 84 on Freeview.

Although some will criticise it for using emotive photographs and videos, I was super impressed, and scared, by the history of the last 22 years of Putin. We forget a lot. But lay it out, historical fact after historical fact, and the picture it paints of Putin is downright nasty. It'll be repeated. It's worth an hour of anybody's time.

BobG

I haven't seen this yet. It's a US made docu, and from what I can see the writer is very firmly on the Democrat side of things. Nothing else he has done seems to challenge the US interference on the world. Do you think the perspective and spin here may be coming from a position of wanting to do down Putin?

What you have linked to is also 'US made'. He's American.

He's ex US military. He lives in Russia.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Countless interviews? You've been to Ukaine and interviewed folk? Respect!

[Bristol Red Rover]

Interviews with people in Mariupol focusing on the referendum. You may disagree, but I don't see that these people are actors. What is said goes with everything I've seen and heard directly, as opposed to 2nd and 3rd hand reports from Western/Ukraine media.

You can go back to hear what the previous guy said but this one, and the woman after describe clearly what happened there in the fighting.

https://youtu.be/UE2J0leMgdU?t=740

But you're just linking to a random YouTuber guy embedded in Russian forces. No different to those reports coming through from the other outlets who are part of the Western Conspiracy. The fact is there is a tonne of ethnic Russian people in many parts of Ukraine who have their own opinions and viewpoints. You are going to get that anywhere.

He's not "embedded" in Russian forces. When he does vids on the frontline he is effectively embedded, or protected if you like, by Russians. This vid, and many others are not on the frontline. He is independent, although does have a viewpoint. I've seen him interview people with a pro Ukraine viewpoint too.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Countless interviews? You've been to Ukaine and interviewed folk? Respect!

Pft....

So tell me where you get your info? You never say? From the Ukraine MoD pretty much it seems. Have you got property in Ukraine you're worried about? If so, that would be you and the US.

[turnbull for england]

If this is right then can't see the conscripts being exactly motivated https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1574456740959195137?t=bQGCmecwgABrdGo8dlcWhg&s=19

[BobG]

I struggle to understand how the publicly available record of a life of mendacity, violence, aggression, theft and appalling revenge can portray the point of view of anybody. It's all there. It's historical fact. The man is a beast. If he had 4 legs he would be put down. He should be.

BobG

[Bristol Red Rover]

I struggle to understand how the publicly available record of a life of mendacity, violence, aggression, theft and appalling revenge can portray the point of view of anybody. It's all there. It's historical fact. The man is a beast. If he had 4 legs he would be put down. He should be.

BobG

Not saying he's anything but what you say, but then on a monstrous abusive cuddly uncle level, so is Johnson, and then so many of the US leaders and their puppet handlers couched in their protective faux democracy and flag. There's not going to be a docu on them in the same vein is there?

And then, are you saying there's no spin put on it for extra desired effect?

[wilts rover]

I struggle to understand how the publicly available record of a life of mendacity, violence, aggression, theft and appalling revenge can portray the point of view of anybody. It's all there. It's historical fact. The man is a beast. If he had 4 legs he would be put down. He should be.

BobG

Not saying he's anything but what you say, but then on a monstrous abusive cuddly uncle level, so is Johnson, and then so many of the US leaders and their puppet handlers couched in their protective faux democracy and flag. There's not going to be a docu on them in the same vein is there?

And then, are you saying there's no spin put on it for extra desired effect?

There have been plenty of documentaries made on fascist or neo-colonical leaders wanting to take over a country. But you choose to take the side of the lastest version of Franco or Nixon rather than the invaded/legal government/local people.

We can all see you for what you are.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wonder how disgusted the grandkids of today's far right/left folk will be when they realise their gandparents' take on the biggest crime of the early 21st century in Europe was to repeatedly say "Yes Putin is not perfect, but America, America, America, America! NATO, NATO, NATO, NATO! EU, EU, EU, EU!"

Just like the useful idiots from the 1930s, 40s, 50s and 60s who concentrated on the failings in the West while ignoring the fact that Stalin and Mao were killing 100 million people.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I wonder how long it will be before news emerges of Russian people being oppressed in Georgia (again) so Russia say it's their duty to protect their people and invades in another land grab!?

[scawsby steve]

I wonder how long it will be before news emerges of Russian people being oppressed in Georgia (again) so Russia say it's their duty to protect their people and invades in another land grab!?

They haven't got the resources to finish the land grab they're on with now, Baz, let alone another one.

[normal rules]

Here we go. Russia have just announced they will annex 4 areas of Ukraine on Friday.
This changes things significantly.
As opposed to the current situation where Ukrainian aggression can be justified as defending Ukraine, Any future attacks on annexed areas will be seen as a direct attack on Russia. Paving the way for Putin to start reacting in a much more significant way.

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR

Russia annexed Crimea years ago. Ukraine has attacked multiple targets in Crimea without escalation happening. Putin will NOT use WMDs over Luhansk or Kherson.

[normal rules]

NR

Russia annexed Crimea years ago. Ukraine has attacked multiple targets in Crimea without escalation happening. Putin will NOT use WMDs over Luhansk or Kherson.

I hope, for the worlds sake, he doesn’t.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Here we go. Russia have just announced they will annex 4 areas of Ukraine on Friday.
This changes things significantly.
As opposed to the current situation where Ukrainian aggression can be justified as defending Ukraine, Any future attacks on annexed areas will be seen as a direct attack on Russia. Paving the way for Putin to start reacting in a much more significant way.

This is entirely for domestic consumption only within Russia.

Nobody outside of Russia will recognise  these areas as Russian territory. Tens of thousands of Russians are not buying it either!!

Yes, it gives Putin yet another way to justify further thuggery and now legitimise sending conscripts into these areas (which of course doing so before was unlawful)

Hopefully more shit will hit the Putin fan when these more recently mobilised troops become fertiliser.

[mugnapper]

I think you'll find N.Korea, Syria, Iran and maybe China will be falling over to recognise Russia's new territories.

[ravenrover]

Doubt that China will

[Bristol Red Rover]

NR

Russia annexed Crimea years ago. Ukraine has attacked multiple targets in Crimea without escalation happening. Putin will NOT use WMDs over Luhansk or Kherson.

The attacks in Crimea are not nearly the same category as the attacks on Russian territory in the other 4 areas. I doubt very much that Russia will use even small nukes but they will be stepping up with conventional means, as will Ukraine. Meanwhile, the US sits back and watches it's virtual Vietnam.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Here we go. Russia have just announced they will annex 4 areas of Ukraine on Friday.
This changes things significantly.
As opposed to the current situation where Ukrainian aggression can be justified as defending Ukraine, Any future attacks on annexed areas will be seen as a direct attack on Russia. Paving the way for Putin to start reacting in a much more significant way.

This is entirely for domestic consumption only within Russia.

Nobody outside of Russia will recognise  these areas as Russian territory. Tens of thousands of Russians are not buying it either!!

Yes, it gives Putin yet another way to justify further thuggery and now legitimise sending conscripts into these areas (which of course doing so before was unlawful)

Hopefully more shit will hit the Putin fan when these more recently mobilised troops become fertiliser.

Afghanistan, Cuba, North Korea, Kyrgyzstan, Nicaragua, Sudan, Syria, and Zimbabwe recognise Crimea as Russian.

Syria and N Korea recognise Donetsk PR and the Luhansk PR as independent states.
Belarus, Central African Republic, Nicaragua, Sudan and Venezuela support Russia's recognition of the Donetsk PR and the Luhansk PR as independent states. 62 countries don't recognise their independent statehood.

[Welling Rover]

As Russia doesn't fully control all the area they are going to annexe, does this mean Ukraine are already invading Russia. ?

[Filo]

NR

Russia annexed Crimea years ago. Ukraine has attacked multiple targets in Crimea without escalation happening. Putin will NOT use WMDs over Luhansk or Kherson.

The attacks in Crimea are not nearly the same category as the attacks on Russian territory in the other 4 areas. I doubt very much that Russia will use even small nukes but they will be stepping up with conventional means, as will Ukraine. Meanwhile, the US sits back and watches it's virtual Vietnam.

The other 4 areas are not Russian territory, they are trying to steal it

[BillyStubbsTears]

NR

Russia annexed Crimea years ago. Ukraine has attacked multiple targets in Crimea without escalation happening. Putin will NOT use WMDs over Luhansk or Kherson.

The attacks in Crimea are not nearly the same category as the attacks on Russian territory in the other 4 areas. I doubt very much that Russia will use even small nukes but they will be stepping up with conventional means, as will Ukraine. Meanwhile, the US sits back and watches it's virtual Vietnam.

Russia doesn't have any territory in the other areas. Ukraine has territory that has been invaded by Russia. Interesting insight into your position though.

Run it by me how Russia "steps up the conventional means"? Their number 1 problem all through this venture has been a chronnic inability to maintain logistic support to the front line. What's the magic means by which they suddenly step that up?

Their second biggest problem  has been maintaining a supply of munitions from the motherland. There are credible estimates that in 7 months, Russia has used up the entire output of its munitions supply system from the past several years. They don't have the production capacity to maintain that, nevermind  substantially increase it.

And even assuming these two problems could be overcome, the HIMARS that Ukraine now have have proved ideal for taking out ammo stores anywhere remotely close to the front line.

There's no obvious way out of that problem for Russia. They can't ramp up conventional weapons attack. They will have a bloated, ineffective conscript army they can't supply. That's no way to fight a modern war.

[Bristol Red Rover]

A logistical problem that has seen them out gunning Ukraine by around a factor of ten.

Where is your info from about the availability of weapons and inability to manufacture, and buy, more? How does this complare to Ukraine?

Ukraine has a bloated conscript army too. Russia has far more resources than Ukraine. Far more conscripts available.

Not sure why you are so passionately one sided in this, except for you swallowing pro west/US propaganda, which is mainly put out by the Ukraine MoD.

[i_ateallthepies]

A logistical problem that has seen them out gunning Ukraine by around a factor of ten.

Where is your info from about the availability of weapons and inability to manufacture, and buy, more? How does this complare to Ukraine?

Ukraine has a bloated conscript army too. Russia has far more resources than Ukraine. Far more conscripts available.

Not sure why you are so passionately one sided in this, except for you swallowing pro west/US propaganda, which is mainly put out by the Ukraine MoD.

Jesus Christ on a bike!  Do you not see the irony in what you have written there?.

[Dutch Uncle]

The best assessment I have seen of the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/28/opinions/how-close-putin-nuclear-war-de-bretton-gordon/index.html

I don't believe he will either, but I do think chemical weapons are a very real possibility, especially if some 'deniability' can be scraped from a 'nearby' chemical plant.

[Bristol Red Rover]

A logistical problem that has seen them out gunning Ukraine by around a factor of ten.

Where is your info from about the availability of weapons and inability to manufacture, and buy, more? How does this complare to Ukraine?

Ukraine has a bloated conscript army too. Russia has far more resources than Ukraine. Far more conscripts available.

Not sure why you are so passionately one sided in this, except for you swallowing pro west/US propaganda, which is mainly put out by the Ukraine MoD.

Jesus Christ on a bike!  Do you not see the irony in what you have written there?.

I'm not on ether Russia or Ukraine's side, I've made that clear. But it will come across that I am favouring Russia to someone reading and digesting solely a perspective from Ukraine MoD, as is evidently reguritated by all the newspapers and TV and websites you're being fed by.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The best assessment I have seen of the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/28/opinions/how-close-putin-nuclear-war-de-bretton-gordon/index.html

I don't believe he will either, but I do think chemical weapons are a very real possibility, especially if some 'deniability' can be scraped from a 'nearby' chemical plant.

And for balance, do you think Ukraine may try chem weapons? They are already shelling with the illegal anti personel mines in massive numbers.

[Dutch Uncle]

The best assessment I have seen of the possibility of Putin using nuclear weapons:

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/28/opinions/how-close-putin-nuclear-war-de-bretton-gordon/index.html

I don't believe he will either, but I do think chemical weapons are a very real possibility, especially if some 'deniability' can be scraped from a 'nearby' chemical plant.

And for balance, do you think Ukraine may try chem weapons? They are already shelling with the illegal anti personel mines in massive numbers.

Honest question - do you know that Ukraine has chemical weapons? Do you have a source? I have not seen a source which says so, and a quick google search says they do not have any programs

[ravenrover]

A logistical problem that has seen them out gunning Ukraine by around a factor of ten.

Where is your info from about the availability of weapons and inability to manufacture, and buy, more? How does this complare to Ukraine?

Ukraine has a bloated conscript army too. Russia has far more resources than Ukraine. Far more conscripts available.

Not sure why you are so passionately one sided in this, except for you swallowing pro west/US propaganda, which is mainly put out by the Ukraine MoD.

Russia conscripts not wanting to fight v Ukraine Conscripts wanting to fight
Can you see the anomaly there?

[SydneyRover]

Russia appear to be showing that they are only willing to take on unarmed civilians