Ukraine

[scawsby steve]

I know I might be talking a bit daft here, however I've a mate who used to be in the SAS, although I'm not supposed to know, and he's thinking the same.

Surely the Yanks must have something up their sleeves. Their intelligence on the ground all over the world is phenomenal, that's how they were able to capture Saddam Hussein, take his 2 sons out, and take out Bin Laden.

Surely if they were certain he was going to launch nuclear missiles, he could somehow be dealt with. 

[Bristol Red Rover]

Belarus making noises about invading Ukraine now, good luck with that Lukashenko, you only have 60k troops, Putin is playing you like the cowardly bully he is

It's most likely a ploy to tie up Ukraine troops in the West. On the other hand, there is a point where Russia will invade in the West to slow the arms being supplied to Ukraine.

A Russian invasion 'in the west' is a declaration of war on NATO. If Putin can't defeat Ukraine after 6 months how do you reckon he will get on with NATO?

The west of Ukraine is not anything to do with NATO.

[wilts rover]

Belarus making noises about invading Ukraine now, good luck with that Lukashenko, you only have 60k troops, Putin is playing you like the cowardly bully he is

It's most likely a ploy to tie up Ukraine troops in the West. On the other hand, there is a point where Russia will invade in the West to slow the arms being supplied to Ukraine.

A Russian invasion 'in the west' is a declaration of war on NATO. If Putin can't defeat Ukraine after 6 months how do you reckon he will get on with NATO?

The west of Ukraine is not anything to do with NATO.

Then why did you mention 'the west'. Belarus is north/north-east of Ukraine? It's where the Russian attack on Kyiv came from.

[wilts rover]

I know I might be talking a bit daft here, however I've a mate who used to be in the SAS, although I'm not supposed to know, and he's thinking the same.

Surely the Yanks must have something up their sleeves. Their intelligence on the ground all over the world is phenomenal, that's how they were able to capture Saddam Hussein, take his 2 sons out, and take out Bin Laden.

Surely if they were certain he was going to launch nuclear missiles, he could somehow be dealt with. 

Steve. We have been told for 60 years that the reason this country has nuclear weapons is because they are a deterent. Either they are - or they aren't and we have been lied to for 60 years. And if they can lie to us about something as important as that - what else can they lie about?

Ask your mate in the SAS what he thinks. (He should be wearing the insignia of his enroled unit but with a flash and brown beret - thats how you spot SAS - dont ask me how I know...)

[normal rules]

I know I might be talking a bit daft here, however I've a mate who used to be in the SAS, although I'm not supposed to know, and he's thinking the same.

Surely the Yanks must have something up their sleeves. Their intelligence on the ground all over the world is phenomenal, that's how they were able to capture Saddam Hussein, take his 2 sons out, and take out Bin Laden.

Surely if they were certain he was going to launch nuclear missiles, he could somehow be dealt with. 

Never underestimate the power of human intelligence.
Saddam Husseins ultimate demise would have been down to one or two very very brave people, who were very close to him. And are probably now languishing in their very own detached villa somewhere far far away from Iraq, on a lifetime pension from the US . Along with their families.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Belarus making noises about invading Ukraine now, good luck with that Lukashenko, you only have 60k troops, Putin is playing you like the cowardly bully he is

It's most likely a ploy to tie up Ukraine troops in the West. On the other hand, there is a point where Russia will invade in the West to slow the arms being supplied to Ukraine.

A Russian invasion 'in the west' is a declaration of war on NATO. If Putin can't defeat Ukraine after 6 months how do you reckon he will get on with NATO?

The west of Ukraine is not anything to do with NATO.

Then why did you mention 'the west'. Belarus is north/north-east of Ukraine? It's where the Russian attack on Kyiv came from.

Did you notice the topic here is titled "Ukraine"? Sure I could have said west of Ukraine to save people who are likely to fly off with the hysterical angles, but...

Belarus is where some of the Russian attack came from, not all. There are Russians stationed in Belarus now, and nearby there. It's a way of holding Ukraine troops in the west.

[BillyStubbsTears]

One thing is crystal clear after today. Putin is prepared to take offensive action which has precisely zero military effectiveness. In fact, no, not zero. It has negative military effect because all it does is strengthen resolve against Russia, inside and outside Ukraine.

And he does this purely from a bestial revenge reflex. To massage his own crumbling, worthless ego.

The man is truly scum. Anyone who blathers their way to justifying his actions has made their choice now.

[normal rules]

One thing is crystal clear after today. Putin is prepared to take offensive action which has precisely zero military effectiveness. In fact, no, not zero. It has negative military effect because all it does is strengthen resolve against Russia, inside and outside Ukraine.

And he does this purely from a bestial revenge reflex. To massage his own crumbling, worthless ego.

The man is truly scum. Anyone who blathers their way to justifying his actions has made their choice now.

Agreed. And the pathetic spin from the Kremlin is Ukrainian anti aircraft devices have caused their missiles to be deflected to civilian targets

[wilts rover]

Belarus making noises about invading Ukraine now, good luck with that Lukashenko, you only have 60k troops, Putin is playing you like the cowardly bully he is

It's most likely a ploy to tie up Ukraine troops in the West. On the other hand, there is a point where Russia will invade in the West to slow the arms being supplied to Ukraine.

A Russian invasion 'in the west' is a declaration of war on NATO. If Putin can't defeat Ukraine after 6 months how do you reckon he will get on with NATO?

The west of Ukraine is not anything to do with NATO.

Then why did you mention 'the west'. Belarus is north/north-east of Ukraine? It's where the Russian attack on Kyiv came from.

Did you notice the topic here is titled "Ukraine"? Sure I could have said west of Ukraine to save people who are likely to fly off with the hysterical angles, but...

Belarus is where some of the Russian attack came from, not all. There are Russians stationed in Belarus now, and nearby there. It's a way of holding Ukraine troops in the west.

And if you haven't noticed both people on the forum and politicians 'in the west' have wondered about the war escalating 'to the west' outside of Ukraine. But if you want to be sarcastic and condescening about it that's up to you. It reinforces your point of view perfectly.

[Dutch Uncle]

One thing is crystal clear after today. Putin is prepared to take offensive action which has precisely zero military effectiveness. In fact, no, not zero. It has negative military effect because all it does is strengthen resolve against Russia, inside and outside Ukraine.

And he does this purely from a bestial revenge reflex. To massage his own crumbling, worthless ego.

The man is truly scum. Anyone who blathers their way to justifying his actions has made their choice now.

Agreed. And the pathetic spin from the Kremlin is Ukrainian anti aircraft devices have caused their missiles to be deflected to civilian targets

I have made this point somewhere before, but if Country A launches a missile at a target in Country B, and Country B's defences deflect it somewhere else, the damage is still entirely the responsibility of Country A who instigated the incident.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Wilts, the war was never going to go beyond Ukraine, though of course western propaganda is fixed on hyping that side of things up as prep to justify anything it chooses to do including spending biilions on the war and the poverty to it's populations that is coming from that.

The only possible threat is to the 3 baltic states, but then the NATO factor wuold be triggered. Russia may well be likely to win a war with Ukraine/proxy NATO countries, but woud be at best a few decades before it could then consider taking things further. It's not going to happen, it is propaganda and hysteria. I wasn't being sarcastic.

Also if you'd had properly read what I said you wouldn't have reacted as you did - I said Belarus deployment, and Belarus sabre rattling was to tie up troops in the West - I wasn't referring to Spain. There's sarcasm for ya!

[Bristol Red Rover]

One thing is crystal clear after today. Putin is prepared to take offensive action which has precisely zero military effectiveness. In fact, no, not zero. It has negative military effect because all it does is strengthen resolve against Russia, inside and outside Ukraine.

And he does this purely from a bestial revenge reflex. To massage his own crumbling, worthless ego.

The man is truly scum. Anyone who blathers their way to justifying his actions has made their choice now.

Can you list the targets and hits that Russia had today?

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

[BobG]

Presumably terrorist actions of course....

BobG

[wilts rover]

Military specific targets:

Just been told one of the victims of today’s bombings here in Kyiv was a young female paediatric haematologist, hit as she drove home from her hospital night shift. She has a 5 year old child. She cared for children with cancer. And Putin just killed her.

https://twitter.com/doctor_oxford/status/1579515347899932673

[BillyStubbsTears]

Something I noticed on videos right at the start of the war.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579164370445094915

Watch the lack of movement from Putin's right arm.

He's not a well man.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something I noticed on videos right at the start of the war.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579164370445094915

Watch the lack of movement from Putin's right arm.

He's not a well man.

Apparently he's only got one ball.

Seriously disturbing that you are still banging on in the same vein. This war is disgusting, you do have to step out of the propaganda pool you're in to see how there can be a solution where ordinary people stop getting slaughtered. Kinda first base for a socialist. Go back and see why it is happening, and then with that understanding know how it can be solved.

I spelt out my solution a long way back. You have persisted in saying nothing bar being enthiusiastic about demonising one side and justifying the slaughter. I say you, it's so many here doing similar, but I did think you had the nouse to see beyond big balls futility.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

Go on then. And what else?

[Filo]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

Go on then. And what else?

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

[BillyStubbsTears]

You missed the road junction and the pavement Filo. Clearly military assets.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Something I noticed on videos right at the start of the war.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579164370445094915

Watch the lack of movement from Putin's right arm.

He's not a well man.

Apparently he's only got one ball.

Seriously disturbing that you are still banging on in the same vein. This war is disgusting, you do have to step out of the propaganda pool you're in to see how there can be a solution where ordinary people stop getting slaughtered. Kinda first base for a socialist. Go back and see why it is happening, and then with that understanding know how it can be solved.

I spelt out my solution a long way back. You have persisted in saying nothing bar being enthiusiastic about demonising one side and justifying the slaughter. I say you, it's so many here doing similar, but I did think you had the nouse to see beyond big balls futility.

What a bizarre response to the specifics of my post.

[normal rules]

A little comforting perhaps. If believed.

“Lavrov also said that those who continually speculate about a nuclear war allegedly being caused by Moscow should realise their responsibility for what they are saying, and that Putin has "repeatedly said that in our nuclear doctrine we regard this as an exclusively retaliatory measure".

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yeah but that's not true.

The whole Escalate to De-Escalate strategy has them pre-emptively using a nuke to scare off the opponents.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something I noticed on videos right at the start of the war.

https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1579164370445094915

Watch the lack of movement from Putin's right arm.

He's not a well man.

Apparently he's only got one ball.

Seriously disturbing that you are still banging on in the same vein. This war is disgusting, you do have to step out of the propaganda pool you're in to see how there can be a solution where ordinary people stop getting slaughtered. Kinda first base for a socialist. Go back and see why it is happening, and then with that understanding know how it can be solved.

I spelt out my solution a long way back. You have persisted in saying nothing bar being enthiusiastic about demonising one side and justifying the slaughter. I say you, it's so many here doing similar, but I did think you had the nouse to see beyond big balls futility.

What a bizarre response to the specifics of my post.

Usual hollow response.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

Go on then. And what else?

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

Several power stations and other electrical facilities, to the point of Ukraine stopping electricity export. More of this today.
Azov and Gallicia Brig, SBU HQ in Kiev.
Mobile towers.
Rail centres.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

Go on then. And what else?

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

Several power stations and other electrical facilities, to the point of Ukraine stopping electricity export. More of this today.
Azov and Gallicia Brig, SBU HQ in Kiev.
Mobile towers.
Rail centres.

And..

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

And a pavement and a road junction.

If I shoot three murderers and 10 children, I've still shot 10 children.

Your logic is beyond reprehensible.

[BillyStubbsTears]

And by the way. The analogy I just gave is more than meeting you halfway. It's accepting that Russia trying to destroy power and communications systems is justified as an act of war. It isn't. It is an act of terrorism by an aggressive invader, aimed at pauperising the Ukrainian people.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Do we start with the park or the apartment buildings?

Go on then. And what else?

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

Several power stations and other electrical facilities, to the point of Ukraine stopping electricity export. More of this today.
Azov and Gallicia Brig, SBU HQ in Kiev.
Mobile towers.
Rail centres.

And..

Three schools
One kindergarten
Two social hubs
Six cultural institutions
Five medical facilities
Two administrative buildings

And a pavement and a road junction.

If I shoot three murderers and 10 children, I've still shot 10 children.

Your logic is beyond reprehensible.

How many children are you saying died in the schools and playgrounds?
Who was in the admin buildings?
Who was in the medical faciities?
Who was in the social hubs?

Oh, I missed your hatred of those that fired antipersonnel mines into Donetsk. Those that shelled the bus station in Donetsk, etc etc.
#billyblinkers

[Bristol Red Rover]

And by the way. The analogy I just gave is more than meeting you halfway. It's accepting that Russia trying to destroy power and communications systems is justified as an act of war. It isn't. It is an act of terrorism by an aggressive invader, aimed at pauperising the Ukrainian people.

Power plants are valid. As are railroads and bridges. It is aimed at ending the war sooner than otherwise would happen ie saving lives, something you would like? Zelensky could easily have avoided this whole debacle, but he's a bit thick, and anyway has his strings tied to Washington and London and Brussels. He could still end this but is opting to throw hundreds of thousands of lives away for absolutely nothing while he prances around in his green t shirt.

Putin too could push for peace, though is Zelensky open to negotiation? Apparently not. And anyway. he'd need to negotiate withh the US and NATO, not the puppet. The US is not wanting peace, neither are those that fund NATO.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Zelensky could have avoided this.

Zelensky could have avoided this only by prostrating himself and his country at the feet of a fascist despot.

He could have avoided this in the same way that Britain could have avoided WWII, by doing what Hitler wanted.