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That is a specious argument Bristol. You cannot single out Ukraine as a special case. If Ukraine is a cause of fear for Moscow and military opportunity for western missiles for Washington, then Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Sweden, Finland, Britain, Germany and several others fall into the exact same category. There is nothing to distinguish a missile from Kiev from one from any of those other places. None of 'em can be intercepted and none of 'em are far enough away to give any meaningful warning.You are guilty of special pleading I'm afraid.Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 07:16:37 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2022, 01:14:09 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates. Parts of Russia, including Moscow, are closer from Ukraine.Just because NATO hasn't used Latvia as a missile base doesn't mean it won't use Ukraine now or in the future. Being closer can mean a lot, esp with hypersonic missiles.So, anyway, it seems you don't think the US would be bothered with Russian missiles in Cuba, or Chinese missiles in Tijuana or Ottawa. Weird. BobG
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2022, 01:14:09 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates. Parts of Russia, including Moscow, are closer from Ukraine.Just because NATO hasn't used Latvia as a missile base doesn't mean it won't use Ukraine now or in the future. Being closer can mean a lot, esp with hypersonic missiles.So, anyway, it seems you don't think the US would be bothered with Russian missiles in Cuba, or Chinese missiles in Tijuana or Ottawa. Weird.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates.
Missiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba.
That is a specious argument Bristol. You cannot single out Ukraine as a special case. If Ukraine is a cause of fear for Moscow and military opportunity for western missiles for Washington, then Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Hungary, Moldova, Sweden, Finland, Britain, Germany and several others fall into the exact same category. There is nothing to distinguish a missile from Kiev from one from any of those other places. None of 'em can be intercepted and none of 'em are far enough away to give any meaningful warning.You are guilty of special pleading I'm afraid.Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 07:16:37 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2022, 01:14:09 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates. Parts of Russia, including Moscow, are closer from Ukraine.Just because NATO hasn't used Latvia as a missile base doesn't mean it won't use Ukraine now or in the future. Being closer can mean a lot, esp with hypersonic missiles.So, anyway, it seems you don't think the US would be bothered with Russian missiles in Cuba, or Chinese missiles in Tijuana or Ottawa. Weird. BobG
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on November 06, 2022, 01:14:09 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates. Parts of Russia, including Moscow, are closer from Ukraine.Just because NATO hasn't used Latvia as a missile base doesn't mean it won't use Ukraine now or in the future. Being closer can mean a lot, esp with hypersonic missiles.So, anyway, it seems you don't think the US would be bothered with Russian missiles in Cuba, or Chinese missiles in Tijuana or Ottawa. Weird.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 06, 2022, 01:07:46 pmMissiles in Ukraine would be impossible to defend against.US troops in Ukraine would make Russia v uncomfortable, edgy.The same went for US re Cuba. Missiles from the UK, Italy, Germany and Netherlands would be impossible to defend against.If America wanted to put missiles in Ukraine, why haven't they put them in Estonia.America could put a million troops in Ukraine and still risk every city at home being destroyed if one of them put a toe end over the border.You are talking absolute nonsense over this.I accept that you won't accept that. Because if you did, the entire case you've been remorselessly pushing for months disintegrates.
Sorry have I missed something?How many British pensioners have frozen to death & where was this reported?
Quote from: SydneyRover on November 06, 2022, 10:29:11 pm''How Russian soldiers ran a 'cleansing' operation in Bucha''https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4 Frightening! I wonder if BRR will read it all?
''How Russian soldiers ran a 'cleansing' operation in Bucha''https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4
Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?
Just been watching the BBC documentary Mariupol: The Peoples Story............ it's a hard watch and I don't mind saying there were a few gulps and my eyes watered.... however, I recommend people watch and absorb some of the atrocities that Putin has committed....
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 12, 2022, 08:50:05 pmDepends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years? None of which would have happened if Russia had not illegally annexed parts of Ukraine or illegally invaded Ukraine.
The civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the Ukrainians
Quote from: ravenrover on November 11, 2022, 05:38:52 pmI wonder despite what Zelensky has said, whether pressure may now come to call a halt from NATO. If Putin now accepts that he can't take the whole of Ukraine and settles for the regions that "voted" to rejoin Russia then possibly the end game could be insight. China has called his bluff on nukes, his Generals are going to get all the blame, but he can still claim his special exercises have been a success. Just an optimistic thoughtNot a chance. Kherson "voted" to join Russia. Look at the celebrations there tonight.If Ukraine is still prepared to fight, Putin cannot and must not be allowed out if this with an inch of the land he has stolen.
I wonder despite what Zelensky has said, whether pressure may now come to call a halt from NATO. If Putin now accepts that he can't take the whole of Ukraine and settles for the regions that "voted" to rejoin Russia then possibly the end game could be insight. China has called his bluff on nukes, his Generals are going to get all the blame, but he can still claim his special exercises have been a success. Just an optimistic thought
It's worth noting how no HIMARS were used against the twenty thousand or so Russians crossing the river in Kherson, even managed to take back broken armour.Its also been suggested that HIMARS use is not only dependant on US authorisation (no doubt on that), but is actually manned by US troops. So the US didn't allow the HIMARS targeting of Russians. If so, then what was the full deal between Russia and the US? Is it limited to Kherson, or is there some end game deal fermenting?Given Ukraine had around 100k troops on the Kherson front, and Russia had about 20 to 30k, it has to be questioned why a heavily outnumbered Russia was allowed free withdrawal like this.It doesn't seem Zelensky had or has any say in all this. Just how much of a puppet is he? There's no current change on all other fronts bar Russians gaining a bit more in Donetsk.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 12, 2022, 09:23:59 pmIt's worth noting how no HIMARS were used against the twenty thousand or so Russians crossing the river in Kherson, even managed to take back broken armour.Its also been suggested that HIMARS use is not only dependant on US authorisation (no doubt on that), but is actually manned by US troops. So the US didn't allow the HIMARS targeting of Russians. If so, then what was the full deal between Russia and the US? Is it limited to Kherson, or is there some end game deal fermenting?Given Ukraine had around 100k troops on the Kherson front, and Russia had about 20 to 30k, it has to be questioned why a heavily outnumbered Russia was allowed free withdrawal like this.It doesn't seem Zelensky had or has any say in all this. Just how much of a puppet is he? There's no current change on all other fronts bar Russians gaining a bit more in Donetsk.Geobbels would be proud of you
I love it when BRR uses "it has been suggested". When we all know he means "Russian MoD says..." but he can't bring himself to say it.
Anyway BST, cut to the chase. Are you saying all I said was crap in that post, or do you agree with some, is some interesting? Chat, discuss perhaps, give some of your opinion based on this conflict not one from the olden days, take into account global politics, US, CHINA, Russia, Brazil, EU etc. Who is playing who, who is more desperate, who is expanding, who is shrinking, who is duping who. Just quit with the very tiresome microscopic attention deficit view pushed by the BBC and their fellow establishment mouthpieces.
Quote from: Filo on November 11, 2022, 03:11:25 pmThe civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the UkrainiansExcept most were evacuated.
Quote from: glosterred on November 12, 2022, 08:51:55 pmQuote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 12, 2022, 08:50:05 pmDepends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years? None of which would have happened if Russia had not illegally annexed parts of Ukraine or illegally invaded Ukraine. That makes it okay then?
Quote from: Not Now Kato on November 07, 2022, 10:19:18 amQuote from: SydneyRover on November 06, 2022, 10:29:11 pm''How Russian soldiers ran a 'cleansing' operation in Bucha''https://apnews.com/article/bucha-ukraine-war-cleansing-investigation-43e5a9538e9ba68a035756b05028b8b4 Frightening! I wonder if BRR will read it all?Yup I did. Terrible incident if that happened as told. There are questions around some of the bodies used being placed by Ukraines. That said, there's no doubt about some of the incidents.You also have to place all this in context when talking of war crimes. I don't doubt that there are serious crimes here, however Russia, the US, UK especially, and other NATO, EU countries are all engaged in a geo political Al game, and it is a game, that has caused the deaths of over 100k civilians and military. That is the biggest crime. Falling for the blatent specific incidents over and above the bigger picture is exactly what they want you to do. You then become guilty too.
I'm saying you have numerous times repeated flat out lies straight from the Russian MoD. You've never reflected on that and never retracted those posts or apologised. You just rinse and repeat. It would be farcical if the context wasn't so tragic.
Quote from: Bristol Red Rover on November 12, 2022, 11:19:33 pmAnyway BST, cut to the chase. Are you saying all I said was crap in that post, or do you agree with some, is some interesting? Chat, discuss perhaps, give some of your opinion based on this conflict not one from the olden days, take into account global politics, US, CHINA, Russia, Brazil, EU etc. Who is playing who, who is more desperate, who is expanding, who is shrinking, who is duping who. Just quit with the very tiresome microscopic attention deficit view pushed by the BBC and their fellow establishment mouthpieces.No idea what BST thinks but yup - right old load of b*llocks. Ukraine's tactic is to use the HIMARS to hit supply lines, logistic sites and ammo dumps thus making it impossible for Russia to hold ground. Russia's is to kill as many people as possible. I have been telling you this for weeks - that's why there has been no big set piece battle anywhere in the Ukrainian advance - and why it has been so successful.Funny how none of your youtube friends appears to be in Ukraine.