Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

The civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the Ukrainians

Except most were evacuated.

LOL

You think not?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine. And that scenario was stirred by the US. You have to ask why. One reason being suggested is that the US is wanting to reduce the power and wealth of its competitors and increase its wealth and influence.

Re Russia, that's obvious. Ukraine is merely a pawn in that. V surprised that you can't see that.

The less discussed aspect is the EU. The war has severely affectedthe EU,  and Europe in general. The taking out of the gas pipeline has exacerbated this, as well as being an attempt, failed, to reduce Russian income. The US is making money selling expensive gas to Europe. Europe is now more expensive to produce goods, hence the US will increase its industry. Clearly a desired effect for the US.

[ravenrover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

[Bristol Red Rover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine.

And Transnistria?
And the Baltics?
And Finland?
Poland?
Georgia?
Azerbaijan?

Shall I go on?

A less intelligent person than you could be forgiven for not understanding Putin's imperial expansionism. With you, it feels more like choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit what you want to be true.

[wilts rover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine. And that scenario was stirred by the US. You have to ask why. One reason being suggested is that the US is wanting to reduce the power and wealth of its competitors and increase its wealth and influence.

Re Russia, that's obvious. Ukraine is merely a pawn in that. V surprised that you can't see that.

The less discussed aspect is the EU. The war has severely affectedthe EU,  and Europe in general. The taking out of the gas pipeline has exacerbated this, as well as being an attempt, failed, to reduce Russian income. The US is making money selling expensive gas to Europe. Europe is now more expensive to produce goods, hence the US will increase its industry. Clearly a desired effect for the US.

Rubbish - and victim blaming.

Russian expansionism was stirred by Putin wanting to recreate the Soviet Union and emulate Peter the Great. And excused by the type of people who refused to believe Stalin created gulags and repressing the Hungarian uprising was necessary.

[Not Now Kato]

When this war finally ends, which it will; there needs to be some serious repercussions.
 
I doubt even BRR would try to defend this….
 
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/11/13/7376139/
 

[SydneyRover]

''US to buy South Korean howitzer rounds to send to Ukraine''

''......... Other defense officials confirmed the broad outlines of the contract and said it would help with stockpile pressures, specifically involving the howitzer ammunition, which Ukrainian forces have been using at a high rate. Last week a defense official briefing reporters said Ukraine was burning through as many as 7,000 rounds of ammunition a day, while Russia was firing as much as 20,000 rounds daily .........''

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-business-south-korea-government-and-politics-15569a7bfdb6c53404cfce5f0df1c28f

[ravenrover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

[BillyStubbsTears]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

I fear you're wasting your time. BRR doesn't trust the UN. He DOES uncritically trust lies spewed out by the Russian MoD though. Strange, but there you go...

[glosterred]

The civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the Ukrainians

Except most were evacuated.

LOL

You think not?

No I don’t, I think it was a rigged vote

[Bristol Red Rover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine.

And Transnistria?
And the Baltics?
And Finland?
Poland?
Georgia?
Azerbaijan?

Shall I go on?

A less intelligent person than you could be forgiven for not understanding Putin's imperial expansionism. With you, it feels more like choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit what you want to be true.

Transnistria is as good as Russian. Also would be surprising if Russia doesn't take land including Odessa up to there. The rest is safe as far as can be seen. But US propaganda will of course push your fear.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine. And that scenario was stirred by the US. You have to ask why. One reason being suggested is that the US is wanting to reduce the power and wealth of its competitors and increase its wealth and influence.

Re Russia, that's obvious. Ukraine is merely a pawn in that. V surprised that you can't see that.

The less discussed aspect is the EU. The war has severely affectedthe EU,  and Europe in general. The taking out of the gas pipeline has exacerbated this, as well as being an attempt, failed, to reduce Russian income. The US is making money selling expensive gas to Europe. Europe is now more expensive to produce goods, hence the US will increase its industry. Clearly a desired effect for the US.

Rubbish - and victim blaming.

Russian expansionism was stirred by Putin wanting to recreate the Soviet Union and emulate Peter the Great. And excused by the type of people who refused to believe Stalin created gulags and repressing the Hungarian uprising was necessary.

Open your eyes. Even if there is some truth in what you say, and I personally can see some of that as Russians motive though realistically, that doesn't fit with what will happen. You fell differently, I see that. What I find strange is your stark denial of US motives and ambitions, especially as its power is undeniably shrinking, or at least under pressure.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

Killed by who?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

I fear you're wasting your time. BRR doesn't trust the UN. He DOES uncritically trust lies spewed out by the Russian MoD though. Strange, but there you go...

Ha, not true. Though it's obvious you regurgitate Zelensky, Biden, their MoDs, their prescribed version of events.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The civilian population that apparently voted nearly 100% to be Russian coming onto the streets in joy welcoming the Ukrainians

Except most were evacuated.

LOL

You think not?

No I don’t, I think it was a rigged vote

Probably,  but we're talking evacuation,  not vote.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Why are the Baltic States less at risk than Ukraine?

Why is Georgia not at risk, given Putin has already invaded once?

Why is Poland not at risk when there is the Kaliningrad enclave as an ongoing issue?

Transnistria is not "as good as Russian". It is a part of a sovereign state that is not Russia. (Your nonsense about Russia taking it and Odessa is funny, mind. Have you been living under a rock for the past week? After fleeing over the Dneister, there's more chance of Russia invading Cleethorpes than taking Odessa anytime soon.)

Are you really trying to claim that if Ukraine rolls over and let's Putin have them as a vassal state, that's the end of his imperialist expansion?

Really?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

I fear you're wasting your time. BRR doesn't trust the UN. He DOES uncritically trust lies spewed out by the Russian MoD though. Strange, but there you go...

Ha, not true. Though it's obvious you regurgitate Zelensky, Biden, their MoDs, their prescribed version of events.

I've got a line on BRR Bingo.

Again.

Instead of trotting out the same guff every time, do you want to quote me anything I've said that is regurgitation of what Zelensky or Bisen have said?

I'm guessing you have plenty of examples, given how often you've used that line. Off you toddle and find some.

[ravenrover]

Depends whose or what figures you are reading. What are you going by? I suppose you're aware of Ukraine shelling Donetsk and killing civilians for the last 8 years?

As you say let's cut to the chase, your answer to my question is?

Dont know. Depends what figures you're using. What are you using? Seems you have drawn a conclusion.

Can't bring yourself to do it, shame

So you don't know either. Fog of war eh!

The Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) verified a total of 6,490 civilian deaths during Russia's invasion of Ukraine as of November 6, 2022. Of them, 403 were children ...... mmm
I'll let you prove I'm wrong from your sources

Killed by who?

I'm going to have a wild guess at Russia, over to you

[ncRover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine.

And Transnistria?
And the Baltics?
And Finland?
Poland?
Georgia?
Azerbaijan?

Shall I go on?

A less intelligent person than you could be forgiven for not understanding Putin's imperial expansionism. With you, it feels more like choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit what you want to be true.

BRR look in to South Ossetia in Georgia. It’s basically Russian-run after the invasion last decade. Russia will now micromanage all the information that reaches the people of that “state”.

Perhaps countries like Georgia join NATO out of self-defence?

[wilts rover]

Here's the REALLY big question to those who think Ukraine shouldn't fight, and the Western democracies shouldn't support them.

What happens then?

History doesn't stop.

Expansionist dictators would take a lesson from that capitulation. And the lesson would be that they are free to bully, intimidate, invade and absorb weaker neighbours.

I know some of the Putin fanboys would be fine with much of Europe being under the heel of a fascist dictator. AL in here has said we should have left Hitler to do what he wanted in Europe.

But I wonder if the #bothsides folk ever stop and think what the world looks like in 50 years time, if Putin (and more importantly, Xi) are not told firmly and unequivocally that the West will not stand by and watch expansionist dictators do what they want?

I agree, tho realistically, Russia isn't going anywhere bar Ukraine. And that scenario was stirred by the US. You have to ask why. One reason being suggested is that the US is wanting to reduce the power and wealth of its competitors and increase its wealth and influence.

Re Russia, that's obvious. Ukraine is merely a pawn in that. V surprised that you can't see that.

The less discussed aspect is the EU. The war has severely affectedthe EU,  and Europe in general. The taking out of the gas pipeline has exacerbated this, as well as being an attempt, failed, to reduce Russian income. The US is making money selling expensive gas to Europe. Europe is now more expensive to produce goods, hence the US will increase its industry. Clearly a desired effect for the US.

Rubbish - and victim blaming.

Russian expansionism was stirred by Putin wanting to recreate the Soviet Union and emulate Peter the Great. And excused by the type of people who refused to believe Stalin created gulags and repressing the Hungarian uprising was necessary.

Open your eyes. Even if there is some truth in what you say, and I personally can see some of that as Russians motive though realistically, that doesn't fit with what will happen. You fell differently, I see that. What I find strange is your stark denial of US motives and ambitions, especially as its power is undeniably shrinking, or at least under pressure.

Open yours.

Russia illegally invaded a sovereign independent country, twice, due to the richest man in the world wanting to expand his empire and erradicate a country he doesn't believe should exisit (not what I think - but what Putin has said) and all you can do is talk about the US.

Open your eyes.

[mushRTID]

2 Russian missiles have apparently landed in Poland killing two.

[wilts rover]

Just about to post the same Mush. Emergency NATO meeting called.

[Donnywolf]

Ruskies will say a) made up by West or b) False flag op by Ukraine to try to get NATO involved

[Filo]

There are currently 4 Typhoons and a stratotanker patrolling the East Coast of the UK, along with a Hercules

[wilts rover]

Apologies not NATO (yet). G20 leaders and Polish Security Council meeting.

[Dutch Uncle]

I think it very likely NATO HQ will be very busy right now, and a number of national MOD’s

[Filo]

Drag Lavrov out of the G20 and string him up at the nearest petrol station forecourt

[DonnyBazR0ver]

Wouldn't surprise me if the stray? missile strike on Poland came from Belarus territory.