Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russian political commentator calling on national TV for Russia to up the ante on war crimes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1597868964922949634

Not really. More like telling the west to deal wth the problems it has created in interfering with Ukraine and creating this proxy war. For it to give genuine aid, actually take citizens in rather than leave them in a war zone it is fueling and throw sacks of rice at them.

I get that you try to ignore facts that you don't need to look at. I get that. You've been doing it throughout the war.

What I truly don't understand is you looking at something and totally whitewashing it.

Here's the man's exact words.

"What we need to make sure is that Ukraine is forced to send another 10-15 million refugees to Europe...Strikes on infrastructure should throw the life of the entire Ukrainian state into disarray."

That's a major Russian political commentator calling, on national TV, for Russia to commit one of the biggest war crimes in human history.

And you just "meh" it. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder how you became this person?

It's war, there are no rules.
The US, EU, NATO are responsible for pushing Russia into this. That clown Zelensky would be happy for us all to freeze to death on behalf of his pirate regime. How many British pensioners will die because of his proxy war because they can't turn on the heating.Meanwhile the US is coining it in on gas sales to europe.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/us-natural-gas-exports-europe-surge-energy-crisis-trader-profits-2022-8

Oh but there ARE rules in war.

The fact that you think "war" equates to "anything is acceptable" is not really surprising given your track record in here. But it is no less disgusting for that.

BST very able to see Russian crimes, unable to see stark Ukraine, US, NATO, UK ones. No surprise there, though to be fair he does believe the rules only came into play this year, he and the EU President.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Russian political commentator calling on national TV for Russia to up the ante on war crimes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1597868964922949634

Not really. More like telling the west to deal wth the problems it has created in interfering with Ukraine and creating this proxy war. For it to give genuine aid, actually take citizens in rather than leave them in a war zone it is fueling and throw sacks of rice at them.

I get that you try to ignore facts that you don't need to look at. I get that. You've been doing it throughout the war.

What I truly don't understand is you looking at something and totally whitewashing it.

Here's the man's exact words.

"What we need to make sure is that Ukraine is forced to send another 10-15 million refugees to Europe...Strikes on infrastructure should throw the life of the entire Ukrainian state into disarray."

That's a major Russian political commentator calling, on national TV, for Russia to commit one of the biggest war crimes in human history.

And you just "meh" it. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder how you became this person?

It's war, there are no rules.
The US, EU, NATO are responsible for pushing Russia into this. That clown Zelensky would be happy for us all to freeze to death on behalf of his pirate regime. How many British pensioners will die because of his proxy war because they can't turn on the heating.Meanwhile the US is coining it in on gas sales to europe.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/us-natural-gas-exports-europe-surge-energy-crisis-trader-profits-2022-8

Oh but there ARE rules in war.

The fact that you think "war" equates to "anything is acceptable" is not really surprising given your track record in here. But it is no less disgusting for that.

BST very able to see Russian crimes, unable to see stark Ukraine, US, NATO, UK ones. No surprise there, though to be fair he does believe the rules only came into play this year, he and the EU President.

What a f**king childish contribution to a very important discussion.

[wilts rover]

Russian political commentator calling on national TV for Russia to up the ante on war crimes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1597868964922949634

Not really. More like telling the west to deal wth the problems it has created in interfering with Ukraine and creating this proxy war. For it to give genuine aid, actually take citizens in rather than leave them in a war zone it is fueling and throw sacks of rice at them.

I get that you try to ignore facts that you don't need to look at. I get that. You've been doing it throughout the war.

What I truly don't understand is you looking at something and totally whitewashing it.

Here's the man's exact words.

"What we need to make sure is that Ukraine is forced to send another 10-15 million refugees to Europe...Strikes on infrastructure should throw the life of the entire Ukrainian state into disarray."

That's a major Russian political commentator calling, on national TV, for Russia to commit one of the biggest war crimes in human history.

And you just "meh" it. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder how you became this person?

It's war, there are no rules.
The US, EU, NATO are responsible for pushing Russia into this. That clown Zelensky would be happy for us all to freeze to death on behalf of his pirate regime. How many British pensioners will die because of his proxy war because they can't turn on the heating.Meanwhile the US is coining it in on gas sales to europe.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/us-natural-gas-exports-europe-surge-energy-crisis-trader-profits-2022-8

Oh but there ARE rules in war.

The fact that you think "war" equates to "anything is acceptable" is not really surprising given your track record in here. But it is no less disgusting for that.

BST very able to see Russian crimes, unable to see stark Ukraine, US, NATO, UK ones. No surprise there, though to be fair he does believe the rules only came into play this year, he and the EU President.

BRR unable to see and excuser of Russian war crimes - but it's someone elses fault other than the perpetrator. It's always someone else's fault.

[wilts rover]

But the US...

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russian political commentator calling on national TV for Russia to up the ante on war crimes.

https://mobile.twitter.com/StratcomCentre/status/1597868964922949634

Not really. More like telling the west to deal wth the problems it has created in interfering with Ukraine and creating this proxy war. For it to give genuine aid, actually take citizens in rather than leave them in a war zone it is fueling and throw sacks of rice at them.

I get that you try to ignore facts that you don't need to look at. I get that. You've been doing it throughout the war.

What I truly don't understand is you looking at something and totally whitewashing it.

Here's the man's exact words.

"What we need to make sure is that Ukraine is forced to send another 10-15 million refugees to Europe...Strikes on infrastructure should throw the life of the entire Ukrainian state into disarray."

That's a major Russian political commentator calling, on national TV, for Russia to commit one of the biggest war crimes in human history.

And you just "meh" it. Do you ever look at yourself in the mirror and wonder how you became this person?

It's war, there are no rules.
The US, EU, NATO are responsible for pushing Russia into this. That clown Zelensky would be happy for us all to freeze to death on behalf of his pirate regime. How many British pensioners will die because of his proxy war because they can't turn on the heating.Meanwhile the US is coining it in on gas sales to europe.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/commodities/us-natural-gas-exports-europe-surge-energy-crisis-trader-profits-2022-8

Oh but there ARE rules in war.

The fact that you think "war" equates to "anything is acceptable" is not really surprising given your track record in here. But it is no less disgusting for that.

BST very able to see Russian crimes, unable to see stark Ukraine, US, NATO, UK ones. No surprise there, though to be fair he does believe the rules only came into play this year, he and the EU President.

What a f**king childish contribution to a very important discussion.

Try replying to the topic as well as not being a total twonk with you baby potty mouth, jeez! Where's the moods and bans?

Are you saying the rules apply to all or not?

[BillyStubbsTears]

The difference between us BRR this.

You don't know shit about my opinions on the rights and wrongs of previous conflicts.

I DO know what you think about this one. You have responded to a Russian commentator screaming for his country to commit a war crime on an almost unprecedented scale, with whataboutery.

That's truly and deeply disgusting.

Don't you dare try to claim the moral high ground.

[Dutch Uncle]

War crimes like NATO in Serbia and Libya? The US in Afghanistan, in Iraq. Not to mention Vietnam. Far worse was done in all those cases.

And you just "meh" the US etc instigating and fanning this proxy war. One that is progressively likely to kill multiples more. How many hundreds of thousands more deaths of Ukraine's are worth that?

Not to mention the escalation problems with Poland now considering sending its NATO boots in there.

In an effort to try and contextualise the extent of various military operations overstepping the marks laid down in the Geneva Convention, this excellent article lays out the questions that should be asked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63754808

Ask yourself the level of 'proportionality' involved in Russian 'operations' in Ukraine in terms of civilian suffering and death versus military gains and compare that with other conflicts.   

Vietnam (which was not NATO) was awful but it was nearly 50 years ago, was seen as a total failure, rightly condemned, and IMHO nothing else has come close since, the closest probably being in Syria

[mugnapper]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11494595/amp/Vladimir-Putin-fell-stairs-home-soiled-himself.html

Daily Fail with this gem

[Bristol Red Rover]

The difference between us BRR this.

You don't know shit about my opinions on the rights and wrongs of previous conflicts.

I DO know what you think about this one. You have responded to a Russian commentator screaming for his country to commit a war crime on an almost unprecedented scale, with whataboutery.

That's truly and deeply disgusting.

Don't you dare try to claim the moral high ground.

First, I know your language on these forums is one of the worst. Second, you tend to play the man, not the ball. Check yourself out. You can play the ball quite easily - kinda like a Louis Suarez of these boards.

Re the attacking of infastructure - that has always been the way in war. NATO, US, UK, and Russia are all guilty of this if it's a crime. Where we disagree it seems is that changing the rules and commentary on this mid game, as the UK and US have done, is hypocritical. That stands out and I find it bizarre that you don't acknowledge that.

Russia could easily have gone for the infastructure earlier. They didn't because they partly at least didn't think they needed to. Even when they were struggling they didn't. That may have been to do with being economical with their munitions on attacking the power infastructure - obviously better to do that with winter near. But the rail and road infastructure could have been attacked far sooner, so why not? Maybe because of imprecise missiles? Maybe other reassons.

Now, one vid of a *commentator* is hardly newsworthy. Maybe you can explain how you think it is?

Moral highground? I never mentioned it. Apparently that's your personal issue. I only see you are blinkered and rigid in your comments on almost everything. That's a personal characteristic you have, which no doubt has it's positives in your life, but leaves itself bare to be called out in discussion.

[Bristol Red Rover]

War crimes like NATO in Serbia and Libya? The US in Afghanistan, in Iraq. Not to mention Vietnam. Far worse was done in all those cases.

And you just "meh" the US etc instigating and fanning this proxy war. One that is progressively likely to kill multiples more. How many hundreds of thousands more deaths of Ukraine's are worth that?

Not to mention the escalation problems with Poland now considering sending its NATO boots in there.

In an effort to try and contextualise the extent of various military operations overstepping the marks laid down in the Geneva Convention, this excellent article lays out the questions that should be asked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63754808

Ask yourself the level of 'proportionality' involved in Russian 'operations' in Ukraine in terms of civilian suffering and death versus military gains and compare that with other conflicts.   

Vietnam (which was not NATO) was awful but it was nearly 50 years ago, was seen as a total failure, rightly condemned, and IMHO nothing else has come close since, the closest probably being in Syria

Reasonable article but written in a way that focuses on the angle that Russia is on weight trying to demoralise the population.

It could have been more specific on the weights in previous conflicts.

It could have referred to the rail network in terms of both direct attacks and power attacks. This is undoubetly a significant part of the picture, as can be seen currently with large amounts of Ukraine armour stuck in Kherson.

[Filo]

The difference between us BRR this.

You don't know shit about my opinions on the rights and wrongs of previous conflicts.

I DO know what you think about this one. You have responded to a Russian commentator screaming for his country to commit a war crime on an almost unprecedented scale, with whataboutery.

That's truly and deeply disgusting.

Don't you dare try to claim the moral high ground.

First, I know your language on these forums is one of the worst. Second, you tend to play the man, not the ball. Check yourself out. You can play the ball quite easily - kinda like a Louis Suarez of these boards.

Re the attacking of infastructure - that has always been the way in war. NATO, US, UK, and Russia are all guilty of this if it's a crime. Where we disagree it seems is that changing the rules and commentary on this mid game, as the UK and US have done, is hypocritical. That stands out and I find it bizarre that you don't acknowledge that.

Russia could easily have gone for the infastructure earlier. They didn't because they partly at least didn't think they needed to. Even when they were struggling they didn't. That may have been to do with being economical with their munitions on attacking the power infastructure - obviously better to do that with winter near. But the rail and road infastructure could have been attacked far sooner, so why not? Maybe because of imprecise missiles? Maybe other reassons.

Now, one vid of a *commentator* is hardly newsworthy. Maybe you can explain how you think it is?

Moral highground? I never mentioned it. Apparently that's your personal issue. I only see you are blinkered and rigid in your comments on almost everything. That's a personal characteristic you have, which no doubt has it's positives in your life, but leaves itself bare to be called out in discussion.

Russia didn’t go for the infrastructure earlier because they thought they would annex the whole of Ukraine, so therefore the rebuilding costs would be on them, after their defeats in battle and withdrawals the realisation dawned on them that they won’t win the whole of Ukraine, so they decided to drop missile’s left right and centre and let someone else pay for the reconstruction

[scawsby steve]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11494595/amp/Vladimir-Putin-fell-stairs-home-soiled-himself.html

Daily Fail with this gem

Absolute Karma, seeing as he thought he was making us all sh*t ourselves with his constant nuclear threats.

[Filo]

Anyone who’s never shit themselves has never lived

[Bristol Red Rover]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11494595/amp/Vladimir-Putin-fell-stairs-home-soiled-himself.html

Daily Fail with this gem

Absolute Karma, seeing as he thought he was making us all sh*t ourselves with his constant nuclear threats.

I think you'll find the nuke threats were largely explanations of what would happen if the US upped the ante. On a much lesser level to what the US did with Cuba/USSR way back, although yhey were far more close to the trigger when it wasn't even a conflict as such.

Handy for western propaganda to further tar Russia and provide income to washing powder manufacturers.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Anyone who’s never shit themselves has never lived

 
So true!

[normal rules]

Talks of peace talks appearing. Wether they do or not will remain to be seen.
Russia will not give up the Donbas otherwise the whole saga will be seen as a total abject  failure.
Ukraine won’t want to concede any land at all.
No compromise from either side.
No peace.
Ever.

[i_ateallthepies]

At least until Putin is toppled.

[SydneyRover]

To the majority of the general public in Russia it won't matter a bit what putin wins or loses cos they'll never know while the state controls the media.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I suspect things will end late next year with Russia driven out of everywhere but Donbas and Crimea. They will keep those areas. There will be no Western support for Ukraine engaging in military activity to takeover those two areas.

Putin will have caused the deaths of maybe 200,000 people, hundreds of billions of dollars of damage in Ukraine and the long term devastation of the Russian economy, to end up where he started on the ground. And he'll be a much diminished figure, out on a leash by Xi Jingpin for the rest of his life.

A bully, a thug, a fool, a coward and a failure.

[normal rules]

A long hard winter in store for millions of Ukrainians. And Russians. In fact for many in Europe too.

[Bristol Red Rover]

A long hard winter in store for millions of Ukrainians. And Russians. In fact for many in Europe too.

Even more so if the cap on the price of Russian oil results in higher fuel prices.

[Bristol Red Rover]

There's a big question mark over Ukraine being able to keep up with its current rate of artillery fire, a rate well below Russia already. That's including taking into account Western supplies, which are limited.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The big question mark coming from...?

[wilts rover]

There's a big question mark over Ukraine being able to keep up with its current rate of artillery fire, a rate well below Russia already. That's including taking into account Western supplies, which are limited.

[BillyStubbsTears]

A long hard winter in store for millions of Ukrainians. And Russians. In fact for many in Europe too.

Even more so if the cap on the price of Russian oil results in higher fuel prices.

You going to talk us through how the price cap results in significantly higher oil prices for Europe?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russia sell less oil.

[Bristol Red Rover]

The big question mark coming from...?

One eg from a while back, https://amp-abc-net-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/101515370?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16701257215808&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.abc.net.au%2Fnews%2F2022-10-08%2Fus-running-out-of-ammunitions-to-send-to-ukraine-war%2F101515370

And then there's the hundred Soviet pion self propelled 203mm guns where there's a limited stockpile of ammo, unless Russia provides more.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I suspect things will end late next year with Russia driven out of everywhere but Donbas and Crimea. They will keep those areas. There will be no Western support for Ukraine engaging in military activity to takeover those two areas.

Putin will have caused the deaths of maybe 200,000 people, hundreds of billions of dollars of damage in Ukraine and the long term devastation of the Russian economy, to end up where he started on the ground. And he'll be a much diminished figure, out on a leash by Xi Jingpin for the rest of his life.

A bully, a thug, a fool, a coward and a failure.

Except the US instigated all this.

[ravenrover]

A long hard winter in store for millions of Ukrainians. And Russians. In fact for many in Europe too.

Even more so if the cap on the price of Russian oil results in higher fuel prices.

I thoght we were importing Russian oil through 3rd party countries

[wilts rover]

I suspect things will end late next year with Russia driven out of everywhere but Donbas and Crimea. They will keep those areas. There will be no Western support for Ukraine engaging in military activity to takeover those two areas.

Putin will have caused the deaths of maybe 200,000 people, hundreds of billions of dollars of damage in Ukraine and the long term devastation of the Russian economy, to end up where he started on the ground. And he'll be a much diminished figure, out on a leash by Xi Jingpin for the rest of his life.

A bully, a thug, a fool, a coward and a failure.

Except the US instigated all this.

Not what Putin said. He blamed Lenin and Khrushchev for giving away land to create a false state that had been Russian 'from time immemorial':

Putin claimed that modern Ukraine was created by the Russian communists and that Vladimir Lenin and his associates started this process right after the 1917 revolution in a brutal way, by dividing Russian lands. He specifically added: “Nobody asked the millions of people living there what they thought".

"And in 1954, Khrushchev took Crimea away from Russia for some reason and also gave it to Ukraine. In effect, this is how the territory of modern Ukraine was formed."

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/02/22/putin-speech-ukraine-war-history-russia/

If you are going to spout Putin's propoganda at least be accurate about it.