Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

First confirmed action of local Russian anti-Putin milita/freedom groups, the Russian Volunteer Corps and the Freedom of Russia Legion, attacking & defeating Russian troops in Russia.

That was how the end of WW1 began in Russia.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1660722675331768338

https://www.newsweek.com/putin-defectors-freedom-russia-legion-ukraine-belgorod-war-1801786

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/freedom-of-russia-legion-invasion-belgorod-2357297

Don't forget, Russia is running out of missiles and shells, in fact ran out in August. Now they're fighting with shovels. And Ukraine has not lost any territory,  is gaining it all the time. Russia doesn't have any army left, they all got shot or ran away. And Ukraine has HIMARS, Storm Shaddows, M777s, Bradley's,  Challengers, Leopards and now F16s.

I forgot to mention the Patriots 

It's already won this war 20 times over. Oh and everyone loves Zelensky, especially those pulling his strings.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Wagner are withdrawing before they get surrounded, the Russian troops replacing them will surrender or die

They're a PMC, job done, contract over. Chill time, be back for another city/operation soon.

[Bristol Red Rover]

What I get get by head round is how does it end ?

Regime change in Russia?
Nuclear war ?
Ukraine giving up crimea and donbass?
Russia giving up crimea and donbass?

All seem as unlikely as each other

All wars end in a negotiated peace. The fighting gives you more leverage as to gaining what you want in the negotiations.

Only Putin can end this one - because only he started it. What does he want and how long will he carry on in an attempt to get it? And how long will the Russian people let him try? Your answer to these questions is as good as mine.

Although there were a couple of attempts at peace last year, Turkey initiated,  and Israeli, both scuppered by a pumped up US, UK.

Not so sure Russia would concede nearly so much now as then, probably taking all east of the Dneiper, plus Odessa region as a minimum, then they'll be conditions re NATO, etc etc.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Putin had only two ways to win this war.

1) Hit Ukraine hard right at the start, overrun Kyiv and replace the Govt with a puppet.
Or
2) Hope that Europe would fold when he cut off gas and put pressure on Kyiv to surrender.

He f**ked up on both.

Once he'd committed to a massive invasion, together with obliteratiln of cities and the war crimes that would inevitably go with it, he could not be allowed to win.

Europe and the USA cannot allow that sort of action inside Europe to succeed or be seen to succeed.

Putin comes out of this badly weakened at best, having lost the aura of invincibility he once had. The most likely outcome from that position is that he will be got rid of by the likes of Prizhogin looking to replace him.

The nuclear threat was never remotely credible, especially once Xi had told him that it wasn't acceptable to even suggest it seriously.

It's just a matter of time now. His forces have exhausted themselves and been bled white at Bakhmut. When they are hit hard later this year, expect them to disintegrate.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Putin had only two ways to win this war.

1) Hit Ukraine hard right at the start, overrun Kyiv and replace the Govt with a puppet.
Or
2) Hope that Europe would fold when he cut off gas and put pressure on Kyiv to surrender.

He f**ked up on both.

Once he'd committed to a massive invasion, together with obliteratiln of cities and the war crimes that would inevitably go with it, he could not be allowed to win.

Europe and the USA cannot allow that sort of action inside Europe to succeed or be seen to succeed.

Putin comes out of this badly weakened at best, having lost the aura of invincibility he once had. The most likely outcome from that position is that he will be got rid of by the likes of Prizhogin looking to replace him.

The nuclear threat was never remotely credible, especially once Xi had told him that it wasn't acceptable to even suggest it seriously.

It's just a matter of time now. His forces have exhausted themselves and been bled white at Bakhmut. When they are hit hard later this year, expect them to disintegrate.

Hmmmm.... Invincible Ukraine is it? Seems the deaths and loss of equipment, failure of equipment is not looking good for Ukraine. The cost for the west is huge. So what to choose? Better health care, less extreme poverty, better education for millions in the UK or killing hundreds of thousands as part of some geopolitical power struggle on behalf of the elites. Let me think?

[i_ateallthepies]

"Hmmmm.... Invincible Ukraine is it? Seems the deaths and loss of equipment, failure of equipment is not looking good for Ukraine. The cost for the west is huge. So what to choose? Better health care, less extreme poverty, better education for millions in the UK or killing hundreds of thousands as part of some geopolitical power struggle on behalf of the elites. Let me think?"

BRR getting the jitters already.. Putin's f*cked.

[wilts rover]

Putin had only two ways to win this war.

1) Hit Ukraine hard right at the start, overrun Kyiv and replace the Govt with a puppet.
Or
2) Hope that Europe would fold when he cut off gas and put pressure on Kyiv to surrender.

He f**ked up on both.

Once he'd committed to a massive invasion, together with obliteratiln of cities and the war crimes that would inevitably go with it, he could not be allowed to win.

Europe and the USA cannot allow that sort of action inside Europe to succeed or be seen to succeed.

Putin comes out of this badly weakened at best, having lost the aura of invincibility he once had. The most likely outcome from that position is that he will be got rid of by the likes of Prizhogin looking to replace him.

The nuclear threat was never remotely credible, especially once Xi had told him that it wasn't acceptable to even suggest it seriously.

It's just a matter of time now. His forces have exhausted themselves and been bled white at Bakhmut. When they are hit hard later this year, expect them to disintegrate.

Hmmmm.... Invincible Ukraine is it? Seems the deaths and loss of equipment, failure of equipment is not looking good for Ukraine. The cost for the west is huge. So what to choose? Better health care, less extreme poverty, better education for millions in the UK or killing hundreds of thousands as part of some geopolitical power struggle on behalf of the elites. Let me think?

Lucky the deaths, loss of equipment, failure of equipment and cost of the war to Russia isn't a problem then.

Of course we should just stand back and let fascist imperialists do what they want. Think of all that Russian money locked up in the City.

[BillyStubbsTears]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

[Sprotyrover]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

Have you got a link for the Casualty Rates? Russians do not disclose their figures

[Colin C No.3]

That single Soviet T-34 tank from the Stalin era that was rolled into Red Square as the highlight of the Moscow Victory Parade looked a fearsome piece of kit.

[Dutch Uncle]

That single Soviet T-34 tank from the Stalin era that was rolled into Red Square as the highlight of the Moscow Victory Parade looked a fearsome piece of kit.

Reminds of back in 1990 when Bush (Snr) and Gorbachov were constantly proposing new ever decreasing limits to NATO And Warsaw Pact tanks in Europe, and both sides eventually had to dispose of many tanks. The Americans removed all oil and other Pollutants and dropped them in the Baja California where apparently they have greatly benefited coral reefs. The Russians on the other hand put many up for sale for private buyers in the West, with adverts in newspapers, A T-34 would have cost £9000 to you or I       

[Colemans Left Hook]

that reminds me of this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD6qdzQvHhE

[Bristol Red Rover]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

What were the Ukraine deaths?

[Colin C No.3]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

What were the Ukraine deaths?

Go find out yourself Igor.

[BillyStubbsTears]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

What were the Ukraine deaths?

As ever. Totally missing the moral point.

But, to indulge you, Prizhogin himself considers this to be an absolute disaster. However many Ukrainian's they have killed (spoiler alert - anyone outside the Kremlin and the parts of the Internet you surf estimates they are a small percentage of the Russian losses) Prizhogin reckons it's been a disaster for Russia and an existential threat to Putin.

But at least you're no longer questioning the Russian losses, so there's hope for everyone. All you need to do now is to reflect on how disgusting the Russian strategy has been. I won't hold my breath.

[Bristol Red Rover]

20,000 Russian dead at Bakhmut. Almost beyond belief, the scale of the carnage they have experienced, to gain a few km of land.

Put it in perspective. The USSR forces had 15,000 deaths in ten years in the invasion and occupation of Aghanistan.

America had 36,000 deaths in the entire Korean War and 58,000 in the entire Vietnam War.

Russia has thrown away 20,000 lives in a meat grinder that they are going to end up running away from. Just horrific.

What were the Ukraine deaths?

As ever. Totally missing the moral point.

But, to indulge you, Prizhogin himself considers this to be an absolute disaster. However many Ukrainian's they have killed (spoiler alert - anyone outside the Kremlin and the parts of the Internet you surf estimates they are a small percentage of the Russian losses) Prizhogin reckons it's been a disaster for Russia and an existential threat to Putin.

But at least you're no longer questioning the Russian losses, so there's hope for everyone. All you need to do now is to reflect on how disgusting the Russian strategy has been. I won't hold my breath.

Still feeding from the crumbs of Western propaganda I see.

True levels of casualties poss never will be known, at least for some time. But dies seem that Ukraine's suffered way more, pouring endless battalions into the kill zone, mainly to prop up the instruction from the Zelensky dictate to hold Bakhmut whatever. Crazy stuff.

[Bristol Red Rover]

"... and the Russians are dying,  this is the best money we have ever spent".

War is evil, messed up, sick, but this guy takes it to another level. A yank gangster, no surprise is it. Someone who's behind that "defensive alliance" they're part of.

https://youtu.be/R8ejPbK99B0
About 25 secs in.

[Colin C No.3]

"... and the Russians are dying,  this is the best money we have ever spent".

War is evil, messed up, sick, but this guy takes it to another level. A yank gangster, no surprise is it. Someone who's behind that "defensive alliance" they're part of.

https://youtu.be/R8ejPbK99B0
About 25 secs in.

Remind me again. Who started this war?

[Filo]

"... and the Russians are dying,  this is the best money we have ever spent".

War is evil, messed up, sick, but this guy takes it to another level. A yank gangster, no surprise is it. Someone who's behind that "defensive alliance" they're part of.

https://youtu.be/R8ejPbK99B0
About 25 secs in.

Which side keeps threatening nukes and who’s nut jobs want to nuke England?

[BillyStubbsTears]

NATO!

EU!

Duh!

[Bristol Red Rover]

So it's okay to have a desire to kill people of another nation? That desire by such as this guy has nothing to do with a war. Its been a desire of many, in the US especially, to engage Russia like this for decades. And engage via proxies rather than losing American lives.

Who started it? Is it about who pulled the first trigger, is it about who riled the trigger puller? Bunch of greedy elites on both sides started it,  ordinary folk lured into doing their dirty business for them. Others lured into cheering them on from the sidelines. Mostly the poor all over losing out financially,  health wise. Not sure why most here are in favour of all that, mainly by being in the Billy blinkers brigade I suppose.

[Bristol Red Rover]

NATO!

EU!

Duh!

Whoosh....

[Filo]

Russia bombs Kyiv Russia calls its servicemen hero’s, Ukraine allegedly bombs Moscow, Russia calls Ukraine terrorists, figure that one out

[i_ateallthepies]

BRR will explain it for us, Filo.

[Filo]

BRR will explain it for us, Filo.

I look forward to the next figment of his imagination

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russia bombs Kyiv Russia calls its servicemen hero’s, Ukraine allegedly bombs Moscow, Russia calls Ukraine terrorists, figure that one out

What does Ukraine call its bombing servicemen? And what does it call Russia's?

[BillyStubbsTears]

#bothsides

Do you REALLY want to do this equating thing?

[Filo]

Russia bombs Kyiv Russia calls its servicemen hero’s, Ukraine allegedly bombs Moscow, Russia calls Ukraine terrorists, figure that one out

What does Ukraine call its bombing servicemen? And what does it call Russia's?

Irrelevant, the aggressor is crying because they are getting back what they have been doing for over a year

[Bristol Red Rover]

Your logic there justifies NATO/Ukraine war crimes. Why so caught up in promoting the fake virtues of one side? Isn't that just a bit arse licky?

[i_ateallthepies]

Because you're so even handed in your assessment of this conflict, BRR.