Ukraine

[Filo]

"shit arguments". Rather than moving to potty mouthisms you could point out the cost to the economy of the fuel crisis caused by the half baked sanctions, the cost of so many other aspects of this war to the economy and individuals,  the cost of Boris Johnson going over to Kyiv to scupper the peace process.

The cost has been massive,  and that cost goes on and on. Its a militarist, establishment, killing people argument you put BST,  you're siding with war and aggression not peace.

Remind who the aggressor is, who invaded a sovereign Country?

Who was killing who within their own country?

So you don’t want to remind us who the aggressor is?

[Bristol Red Rover]

"shit arguments". Rather than moving to potty mouthisms you could point out the cost to the economy of the fuel crisis caused by the half baked sanctions, the cost of so many other aspects of this war to the economy and individuals,  the cost of Boris Johnson going over to Kyiv to scupper the peace process.

The cost has been massive,  and that cost goes on and on. Its a militarist, establishment, killing people argument you put BST,  you're siding with war and aggression not peace.

Remind who the aggressor is, who invaded a sovereign Country?

Who was killing who within their own country?

So you don’t want to remind us who the aggressor is?

Complex isn't it. Lots of internal politics, and murder. If you want to only look at external then you have a bunch of people and organisations and nations. The war was already in full swing way before any external troops interfered.

[glosterred]

"shit arguments". Rather than moving to potty mouthisms you could point out the cost to the economy of the fuel crisis caused by the half baked sanctions, the cost of so many other aspects of this war to the economy and individuals,  the cost of Boris Johnson going over to Kyiv to scupper the peace process.

The cost has been massive,  and that cost goes on and on. Its a militarist, establishment, killing people argument you put BST,  you're siding with war and aggression not peace.

Remind who the aggressor is, who invaded a sovereign Country?

Who was killing who within their own country?

So you don’t want to remind us who the aggressor is?

Complex isn't it. Lots of internal politics, and murder. If you want to only look at external then you have a bunch of people and organisations and nations. The war was already in full swing way before any external troops interfered.

It started firstly in 2014 when RUSSIA first invaded. There is only one country that is an obstacle to peace in the Ukraine and that is RUSSIA.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Just when you thought you couldn't be shocked by the barbarity of the Russians.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1670136975108587524

[Ldr]

Some Americans believed in the immediate post war period that a sensible foreign policy would be to obliterate the ussr in a nuclear attack. Not too sure that’s too insane atm

[silent majority]

Prighozin tells the truth about 2014 and the misinformation that they have been putting out ever since;

Kills BRR's argument for him;

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672177488535977984

Prigozhin released today a new interview going over the current state of affairs as well as looking back at the events preceding the start of the "SMO". In this first bit, he explains that the Donbas was plundered by Russians since 2014 and the 2022 war began for reasons very different from those advertised to the public.

[BillyStubbsTears]

May well be nothing but there are rumours flying arounfcthe Wagner has instigated a coup attempt.

[wilts rover]

A lot more than rumours - on Tass. Rostov-on-Don under martial law and all citizens told to stay inside.

Follows a massive Russian rocket attack on the Wagner training base.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672312279646314496

https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1672341031369560064

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672343773907484674
https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1672343803158577152
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672329766152675332

[BillyStubbsTears]

I'm convinced Dmitri Peskov played for Rotherham in about 1986. That ratty tache. From choice...

[BillyStubbsTears]

A lot more than rumours - on Tass. Rostov-on-Don under martial law and all citizens told to stay inside.

Follows a massive Russian rocket attack on the Wagner training base.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672312279646314496

https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1672341031369560064

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672343773907484674
https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1672343803158577152
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672329766152675332

This man usually has his finger on the pulse.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1672339254335221761

[Sprotyrover]

How many Wagner fighters were there, ? Surely Saterlite Technology will analyse the conflict. Between the Russian regular Forres and Wagner.it may even be a ploy to lure the Ukrainians into a Salient and Ambush, surely Russia has troops behind Wagner and a ton of Tanks Artillery and AirPower!

[wilts rover]

Prosecutor General's Office of Russia- "Investigation Department of the FSB of Russia legally and reasonably initiated a criminal case against Prigozhin E.V. under Article 279 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation on the fact of organizing an armed rebellion."

Definately real. How realistic - we wait to see.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1672355444365377537

[BillyStubbsTears]

FSB has launched a case against Prigozhin for "organizing an armed rebellion"

[wilts rover]

How many Wagner fighters were there, ? Surely Saterlite Technology will analyse the conflict. Between the Russian regular Forres and Wagner.it may even be a ploy to lure the Ukrainians into a Salient and Ambush, surely Russia has troops behind Wagner and a ton of Tanks Artillery and AirPower!

Prigozhin says he has 25 000 and asked them all to mobilise (seems a bit of an overestimate to me). Unverified reports of a 50km Wagner convoy moving on Rostov (which seems widely over optimistic to me).

This is all behind the lines near Bakmut & on the Russian border. Miles away from where Ukraine is attacking and no chance they will ever go over the border to Rostov.

[Bristol Red Rover]

A lot more than rumours - on Tass. Rostov-on-Don under martial law and all citizens told to stay inside.

Follows a massive Russian rocket attack on the Wagner training base.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672312279646314496

https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1672341031369560064

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672343773907484674
https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1672343803158577152
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672329766152675332

Interesting. I'm sure all will become clear. That first tweet has a vid that looks v fake. Yes, there does appear to be some tension between Wagner and the mainstream Russian military, tho no sign of anything more than has been for months. Dunno about the military presence in that Russian Town - could be any number of reasons.

Meanwhile, I wonder how far you think NATO will escalate things assuming Ukraine is not achieving much with its massive counter attack?

[BillyStubbsTears]

I wondered how long it would be before BRR told us everything was under control and anyway...NATO.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Meanwhile, here's the head of the entire Russian armed forces in Ukraine looking like he's pissed up, slurring an entreaty to Wagner troops.

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672357331663765504

But yeah. NATO.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Seriously though BRR...where DO you formulate these ideas?

Yes, there does appear to be some tension between Wagner and the mainstream Russian military, tho no sign of anything more than has been for months.

For Christ's sake man. The FSB has launched action against Prigozhin for inciting armed rebellion! "Some tension"? "Nothing more than it's been for months"?

Do you have any awareness of how you are sounding here?

[Colin C No.3]

Sorry to interrupt BST’s & BBR’s ‘personal war’ here but, could we actually be seeing the tide turning against Putin in a way inconceivable 18 months ago?!

Is ‘the rat’ being ‘chased’ into that dark corner where this time there is no escape?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Nothing personal here. I'd tell any Kremlin fanboy who was spouting shite that they were spouting shite.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Nothing personal here. I'd tell any Kremlin fanboy who was spouting shite that they were spouting shite.

So Yankee fanboy, are you thinking that vid is genuine?

I think it's far too reactive to come to any sense of what's currently happening re Wagner. But let's speculate away... What is the motivation  of Prigozhin? Maybe he's been cornered with the Russian MOD tightening its grip on his freedoms,  taking over the Wagner forces. Maybe he's been bought out by the US? Ukraine appears to be struggling militarily. The US is increasingly desperate for a way out of this conflict without losing face. One way they are accustomed to is regime change. Right now, this would fit perfectly, though very very desperately.

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/06/24/wagner-chief-says-he-is-inside-rostov-army-hq-controls-citys-military-sites-a81617

[Filo]

We could be seeing the start of a Russian Civil War, it will probably depend on how quick Wagner moves, get to Moscow in the next 24 hours and things could get tasty in Russia and on the Frontline in Ukraine as military structures of the Russians crumble

[wilts rover]

A lot more than rumours - on Tass. Rostov-on-Don under martial law and all citizens told to stay inside.

Follows a massive Russian rocket attack on the Wagner training base.
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672312279646314496

https://twitter.com/tassagency_en/status/1672341031369560064

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672343773907484674
https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1672343803158577152
https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672329766152675332

Interesting. I'm sure all will become clear. That first tweet has a vid that looks v fake. Yes, there does appear to be some tension between Wagner and the mainstream Russian military, tho no sign of anything more than has been for months. Dunno about the military presence in that Russian Town - could be any number of reasons.

Meanwhile, I wonder how far you think NATO will escalate things assuming Ukraine is not achieving much with its massive counter attack?

Meanwhile back in Putin propoganda land - it's fake and even if it isn't its all NATO's fault.

Thread here showing video of Prigozhin troops in control of Rostov-on-Don and moving onto Voronezh (halfway to Moscow).

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672480621539590145

This of course is fantastic news for Ukraine. However it should be concering for the rest of us. A civil war anywhere never goes well for the people in that country or the neighbouring ones. A civil war in a country with a massive nuclear arsenal - definately not a good thing.

[Filo]

Putin has fed the Dog for years, and now the Dog has turned on him, never trust a Dog

[BillyStubbsTears]

I did wonder last night if Prigozhin had just cracked after the attack on his own forces by the Russian regulars. Wondered if he had blundered into a trap.

But the speech from Putin is mad.

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1672501207863115776

No "We have this under control and will easily take down the ten bob insurrectionists."

It looks like he's genuinely shitting it and is appealing for the army to stay onside.

Although of course, NATO may have faked the video. And the Wagner forces running up the motorway from Rostov.

[i_ateallthepies]

We could be seeing the start of a Russian Civil War, it will probably depend on how quick Wagner moves, get to Moscow in the next 24 hours and things could get tasty in Russia and on the Frontline in Ukraine as military structures of the Russians crumble

Rostov is something like 600 miles from Moscow, Filo, an army can't cover that distance in 24hrs unless they're all on transport and I suppose they will meet with resistance along the way.

[Filo]

Also rumours that Lukashenko has fled Belarus

[Sprotyrover]

Well Saterlite Intelligence is the key, as it was in the Falklands war for us, if there is a withdrawal of troops from the front line and a concerted advance by Wagner towards Moscow that will be evident and the Ukraine can capitalise, just been on News that Wagner has captured Voronets, 300 miles south of Moscow also reports of regular Army units either assisting Wagner or, standing aside for them!

[Sprotyrover]

Re my last, Regular Units joining up with Wagner or standing aside!