Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

[Iberian Red]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Could you point us in the direction where we could see this?

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's the Kremlin line.

Just like exactly one year earlier when the Russians lobbed a 1tonne anti-ship warhead into a shopping centre, and BRR did the "Reports are going around that..." thing that useful idiots do when they are spreading Kremlin propaganda. In that case, he spread reports that the missile had targetted a NATO munitions dump and the damage to the shopping centre was collateral. 100% wrong, but he never seems to stop and question whether he should trust his sources. So the only conclusion is that he's doing it deliberately.

It's a bit like that line from Trump. "A lot of people are saying..." before churning out a lie. It's designed to give plausible deniability. "Hey! *I*'m not saying it's true. Just saying that other people are doing."

[wilts rover]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Where exactly is this 'being said'?

[wilts rover]

BRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.

He is actually an old trot who believes everything the west, UK/US/NATO does in their foreign policy is wrong and we should look to appease Russia. As the old left did during the Cold War up to the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. And some continued to do afterwards because they couldn't believe what they were seeing either and refused to change the beliefs they had held all their lives.

End result is the same tho.

Off the mark, but stay with the narrative you need if that brings you comfort.

Not particularly. I give very little thought to your motivation. I reply to what I read, why you post it is irrelvant.

As I said above in response to Pies - the end result is the same.

[i_ateallthepies]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Ukrainians, eh?  You'd have thought by now they'd have worked out that the human shield thingy isn't really working.

[Bristol Red Rover]

BRR is this forum's very own Russian Bot.

He is actually an old trot who believes everything the west, UK/US/NATO does in their foreign policy is wrong and we should look to appease Russia. As the old left did during the Cold War up to the Hungarian Uprising in 1956. And some continued to do afterwards because they couldn't believe what they were seeing either and refused to change the beliefs they had held all their lives.

End result is the same tho.

Off the mark, but stay with the narrative you need if that brings you comfort.

Not particularly. I give very little thought to your motivation. I reply to what I read, why you post it is irrelvant.

As I said above in response to Pies - the end result is the same.

Try reading what you said, perhaps?

[TonySoprano]

US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine.
Wow

[ncRover]

Prigozhin back in Russia I see BRR. Putin must really be weakened in the eyes of the general Russian public.

[glosterred]

US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine.
Wow

Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russia

[Bristol Red Rover]

Prigozhin back in Russia I see BRR. Putin must really be weakened in the eyes of the general Russian public.

Difficult to know what the full story is there, but overall it does seem Prigozhin's power and influence has been controlled and used well? I think Russian people can probably see that, and so it's most likely Putin's standing has improved.

[Bristol Red Rover]

US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine.
Wow

Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russia

As has Ukraine, even according to that Guardian article.

Ukraine has also extensively used petal mines, fired into urban areas.

More concerning is the introduction of depleted uranium shells from Sunak.

[Bristol Red Rover]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Where exactly is this 'being said'?

Not in the Guardian or beeb, I wonder why? Here is one place https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurant

I saw a vid showing US serviceman, presumably ex serviceman, giving help after the strike. I'll post it if I find it again. Meanwhile, there's no doubt soldiers were there.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-veteran-killed-kramatorsk-ukraine/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/28/ukraine-russia-war-latest-vladimir-putin-yevgeny-prigozhin/

There's a vid in this link referencing soldiers https://sputnikglobe.com/amp/20230629/fact-check-what-was-real-spot-of-russias-strike-in-kramatorsk-1111542792.html

[wilts rover]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Where exactly is this 'being said'?

Not in the Guardian or beeb, I wonder why? Here is one place https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurant

I saw a vid showing US serviceman, presumably ex serviceman, giving help after the strike. I'll post it if I find it again. Meanwhile, there's no doubt soldiers were there.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-veteran-killed-kramatorsk-ukraine/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/28/ukraine-russia-war-latest-vladimir-putin-yevgeny-prigozhin/

There's a vid in this link referencing soldiers https://sputnikglobe.com/amp/20230629/fact-check-what-was-real-spot-of-russias-strike-in-kramatorsk-1111542792.html

Nowhere in any of those independent sources does it say what you claimed. Other than them reporting claims by the Russian Defence Ministry. The only soldiers killed in that attack were ones on leave.

In fact the Aljazeera article quotes Russian 'sources' as claiming they never hit civilian targets - just after it notes that three Colombian civilians were injured in the attack.

So your source appears to be Russian State tv & the Russian Defence Ministry.

[glosterred]

US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine.
Wow

Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russia

As has Ukraine, even according to that Guardian article.

Ukraine has also extensively used petal mines, fired into urban areas.

More concerning is the introduction of depleted uranium shells from Sunak.

Depleted uranium, we’ve been there before, another weapon that the Russians already have in their arsenal. Seems you’re okay with Russians having it, but against anyone supplying the Ukrainian with it.

As for petal mines, the Russians have previous for this as they spread millions all over Afghanistan when they occupied that country. So again you seem happy that the Russians have and use these mines but against anyone who retaliates with the same weapons.

[Bristol Red Rover]

US sending cluster bombs to the Ukraine.
Wow

Why wow? Russia has been using them on populated areas for much of the war

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/06/what-are-cluster-bombs-biden-ukraine-russia

As has Ukraine, even according to that Guardian article.

Ukraine has also extensively used petal mines, fired into urban areas.

More concerning is the introduction of depleted uranium shells from Sunak.

Depleted uranium, we’ve been there before, another weapon that the Russians already have in their arsenal. Seems you’re okay with Russians having it, but against anyone supplying the Ukrainian with it.

As for petal mines, the Russians have previous for this as they spread millions all over Afghanistan when they occupied that country. So again you seem happy that the Russians have and use these mines but against anyone who retaliates with the same weapons.

Use of these mines is bad, very bad. I'm not defending anyone using them. I don't recall Russia usi g them in Ukraine? I may be wrong. That doesn't excuse Ukraine using them.

Russia also has a full set of nukes. I don't beive it has used them n Ukraine, nor depleted Uranium. I don't believe it intends to. Is Ukraine intending to use the ones from UK? Or at least ones it has left as there is more than a suggestion that one stockpile was hit.

[Bristol Red Rover]

For the record, here's three of the dozen or so people who were killed in that missile attack on the Kramatorsk city centre.

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1674001541450158081

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1675649895464566785

That's what Russian generals say makes them sing with delight.

That's what BRR and the Kremlin fan boys ignore.

It has been said Ukraine Generals, officers and foreign mercenaries were eating there, many of who were killed. Of course the beeb etc isn't going to say that. Is that true? I've seen pics of soldiers there. You have to question how Ukraine troops mix in with civilians all the time, including having artillery operating there, storing armoured vehicles in with civilians, weapon depots, and like this, soldiers congragating there.

I'm not in the slightest saying it's fair game, it's all evil, but using human shields is a level sicker.

Where exactly is this 'being said'?

Not in the Guardian or beeb, I wonder why? Here is one place https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/29/ukraine-says-suspect-directed-russia-missile-attack-on-restaurant

I saw a vid showing US serviceman, presumably ex serviceman, giving help after the strike. I'll post it if I find it again. Meanwhile, there's no doubt soldiers were there.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-veteran-killed-kramatorsk-ukraine/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/06/28/ukraine-russia-war-latest-vladimir-putin-yevgeny-prigozhin/

There's a vid in this link referencing soldiers https://sputnikglobe.com/amp/20230629/fact-check-what-was-real-spot-of-russias-strike-in-kramatorsk-1111542792.html

Nowhere in any of those independent sources does it say what you claimed. Other than them reporting claims by the Russian Defence Ministry. The only soldiers killed in that attack were ones on leave.

In fact the Aljazeera article quotes Russian 'sources' as claiming they never hit civilian targets - just after it notes that three Colombian civilians were injured in the attack.

So your source appears to be Russian State tv & the Russian Defence Ministry.

If military are mixing with civilians  don't believe that makes it a civilian target. That vid shows soldiers were hit. Just because they're not fighting doesn't mean they're not a target.

[silent majority]

Seems the Russians have been lying again! No surprises, but it does put a certain persons opinion in the gutter where it deserves to be;

“Most of the people who were portrayed in such stories as ‘victims’ of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stand-ins, hired individuals. These characters repeated pre-memorized lines to themselves, trying to ‘squeeze out a tear.’ They were also instructed off-camera by the operator to speak ‘slower’ or to ‘repeat this moment again’,” told the former employee of RIA FAN.

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/

[Bristol Red Rover]

Seems the Russians have been lying again! No surprises, but it does put a certain persons opinion in the gutter where it deserves to be;

“Most of the people who were portrayed in such stories as ‘victims’ of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stand-ins, hired individuals. These characters repeated pre-memorized lines to themselves, trying to ‘squeeze out a tear.’ They were also instructed off-camera by the operator to speak ‘slower’ or to ‘repeat this moment again’,” told the former employee of RIA FAN.

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/

Ah,  that changes everything then. There's no victims of the armed forces of "Ukraine". Or what is it you're claiming exactly?

[silent majority]

Seems the Russians have been lying again! No surprises, but it does put a certain persons opinion in the gutter where it deserves to be;

“Most of the people who were portrayed in such stories as ‘victims’ of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were stand-ins, hired individuals. These characters repeated pre-memorized lines to themselves, trying to ‘squeeze out a tear.’ They were also instructed off-camera by the operator to speak ‘slower’ or to ‘repeat this moment again’,” told the former employee of RIA FAN.

https://euromaidanpress.com/2023/07/14/victims-of-donbas-genocide-were-paid-actors-prigozhins-fired-trolls-reveal/

Ah,  that changes everything then. There's no victims of the armed forces of "Ukraine". Or what is it you're claiming exactly?

Not at all, but the foundation of your argument has always been that the Ukraine were bombing civilians in the Donbas which justified the Russian position.

My friends and work colleagues in the Donbas region have always maintained that the stories of mass casualties caused by Ukraine were false, and here's the Russians actually admitting it.

I know, it doesn't suit your agenda. But I trust my friends on the ground to be more accurate than you.

[Bristol Red Rover]

That wasn't the foundation of what is your perception of my argument. My main argument is the western media narrative is far from the whole story. Also, that the build up to this war is long and complex, including Russia itching for taking Ukraine, including the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war,  wanting to have a go at Russia. The Donbas situation was fairly far down the road in all this.

Are you friends saying Ukraine forces,  many of them swastika sporting, was not killing people in Donbas? Where in Donbas are your friends?

[i_ateallthepies]

"the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war,  wanting to have a go at Russia"?  Your mate Vlad fell for that hook, line and sinker then didn't he.  What a plonker.

[BillyStubbsTears]

The idea that anyone in the West wanted this to be a major shooting war is just preposterous. Its the sort of intellectually bone idle diarrhoea shat out by far left idiots and Kremlin fan boys.

Europe didn't want this to be a shooting war because the result has been massive damage to the European economy.

The USA didn't want this to be a shooting war because their nightmare scenario is Putin getting hoyed out and the Russian state system collapsing - becoming Somalia with 7000 nukes.

It only takes a minute of sober thought to understand why it was in the interests of no country in the West for Russia to start this war. But still that shite comes pouring out.

[silent majority]

That wasn't the foundation of what is your perception of my argument. My main argument is the western media narrative is far from the whole story. Also, that the build up to this war is long and complex, including Russia itching for taking Ukraine, including the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war,  wanting to have a go at Russia. The Donbas situation was fairly far down the road in all this.

Are you friends saying Ukraine forces,  many of them swastika sporting, was not killing people in Donbas? Where in Donbas are your friends?

My friends and colleagues were based all over Ukraine, and I visited them all on a regular basis. But key sites were Kiev where our main office and factory was, and an office we had in Donetsk, again which I visited regularly. In 2012 I stayed with a friend and work colleague in his house in Donetsk, which was very welcoming, during the UEFA tournament.

We lost the office in Donetsk after the invasion, and again we lost the factory in Kiev within days of the new invasion during an air attack. We've since opened up again in Kiev but moved most of our senior management and their families in to Poland although quite a number have returned. Its quite emotional trying to have a Teams meeting when you know that some of the people on that call are sitting in an underground station!!

I've avoided your comments on here for quite some time, I don't enjoy arguing politics, but its very personal for me, I know these people, and your disdain for them is beyond belief.

PS - Lets not forget #MH17

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yet more signs of Russia's increasing loss of world importance.

Ukraine today took out the Kerch Bridge again.

Russia responded by saying it is pulling out of the agreement that let's Ukrainian wheat ships pass through the Black Sea on their way to feed Arabia and Africa.

China very diplomatically says "Get back in your cage Russia. WE tell you what to do."

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680908984604131328

Meanwhile. Expect the wheat shipments to continue under the protection of the Turkish navy. And since Turkey is in NATO, Russia will not dare attack their ships.

Putin's Russia is a pitiful mess.

[Filo]

Russia bombs the Grain terminals at Odessa, waiting for BRR to tell us now thats where Ukraine Army are hiding

[Iberian Red]

I'm sure his sources will be claiming that those nasty Ukrainians were disguising themselves as oversized mice.

[Bristol Red Rover]

That wasn't the foundation of what is your perception of my argument. My main argument is the western media narrative is far from the whole story. Also, that the build up to this war is long and complex, including Russia itching for taking Ukraine, including the US, NATO, UK wanting a proxy war,  wanting to have a go at Russia. The Donbas situation was fairly far down the road in all this.

Are you friends saying Ukraine forces,  many of them swastika sporting, was not killing people in Donbas? Where in Donbas are your friends?

My friends and colleagues were based all over Ukraine, and I visited them all on a regular basis. But key sites were Kiev where our main office and factory was, and an office we had in Donetsk, again which I visited regularly. In 2012 I stayed with a friend and work colleague in his house in Donetsk, which was very welcoming, during the UEFA tournament.

We lost the office in Donetsk after the invasion, and again we lost the factory in Kiev within days of the new invasion during an air attack. We've since opened up again in Kiev but moved most of our senior management and their families in to Poland although quite a number have returned. Its quite emotional trying to have a Teams meeting when you know that some of the people on that call are sitting in an underground station!!

I've avoided your comments on here for quite some time, I don't enjoy arguing politics, but its very personal for me, I know these people, and your disdain for them is beyond belief.

PS - Lets not forget #MH17

No disdain in general not at all. Ukraine is in the middle of a geo political move between the US,  mainly,  and Russia. Plus there are plenty of gangsters in Ukraine both pro Russian and pro West, who have helped flare up this situation for their own self interest, that you and your friends all surely know.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Russia bombs the Grain terminals at Odessa, waiting for BRR to tell us now thats where Ukraine Army are hiding

No, they're probs not hiding there unlike in cafes and schools in other areas. The bombing of those silos is a destruction of a port as a whole, so international ships will be less likely to go there and so less likely to spread the conflict if they had become embroiled. And it lessens the number of sea born military supplies coming into Ukraine's arsenal.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yet more signs of Russia's increasing loss of world importance.

Ukraine today took out the Kerch Bridge again.

Russia responded by saying it is pulling out of the agreement that let's Ukrainian wheat ships pass through the Black Sea on their way to feed Arabia and Africa.

China very diplomatically says "Get back in your cage Russia. WE tell you what to do."

https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1680908984604131328

Meanwhile. Expect the wheat shipments to continue under the protection of the Turkish navy. And since Turkey is in NATO, Russia will not dare attack their ships.

Putin's Russia is a pitiful mess.

Lots of US fanboy fantasy there from the tearful one.

Russia was pulling out of the grain deal before the crime bridge damage. It didn't serve them. Reports of military imports from ships later taking grain out doesn't help. Plus Odessa is a military target. Lots of reasons to stop the deal. Judge for yourself tho the big story there isn't wholly what's reported in western media - kinda obvious, but seems there's lots who follow only one side of reporting.