Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

RD, ignoring what I post and playing Fox News sensationalism isnt communication as we know it, nor is it going to help you understand.

[BessieBlue]

I don't think BRR likes being analysed RD.

His/her mission in life is to peddle Putin guff but when you challenge him/her on these matters there is plenty of evasion and no substance.

[Metalmicky]

I don't think BRR likes being analysed RD.

His/her mission in life is to peddle Putin guff but when you challenge him/her on these matters there is plenty of evasion and no substance.

you missed out they/them - to cover all bases....

[wilts rover]

Quote: "someone who conveniently takes one side of an argument, sticks religiously to it, and ignores anything contrary to his dictate"

Can you think of any other frequent poster on this thread BRR, who does the above?

Are you agreeing with what I said with BST?

I'm always interested in all angles, and have been stating the ones that tend not to be on the side of the one sided western media narrative for balance.

As a very obvious example, many here referred to Russia running out of ammo from the early days, over a year ago, as per the Western media narrative/propaganda - that hasn't happened has it? Indeed Ukraine's lack of ammo is more of an issue. Resupplies for Ukraine are cited, but not the crucial detail of them being mainly in the distant future. One reason why the US has escalated things with supplying from its stocks of cluster shells - there wasn't an alternative.

For balance I provide one side of an argument.

Hmmmm....

I referred to one sode where it was said Russia would run out of shells, missiles etc a year ago (or so), and the obvious is that they haven't. What point are you making?

See also the post re Forbes - I gave the link to tanks destroyed etc. Make your own conclusion, including whether or not Forbes is promoting a misleading pro western perspective or not.

The point I am making is that you are not providing balance in your posts - despite you saying you are providing balance in your posts.

Balance in the discusson here.

Yet you criticise other people for giving the opposite view to you? Surely now you should be asking everyone to give the opposite view to you? For balance.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Yet you criticise other people for giving the opposite view to you? Surely now you should be asking everyone to give the opposite view to you? For balance.

It's called discussion.

The BBC already asks you, effectively so,  to have an unquestioning anti Russian pro Ukraine, pro US, pro UK, pro NATO etc etc stance.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I don't think BRR likes being analysed RD.

His/her mission in life is to peddle Putin guff but when you challenge him/her on these matters there is plenty of evasion and no substance.

Oh but I love analysis! So if you have something to say, do be specific rather than vague with no substance.

And on that, in analysis it's well known that what you say in a reactive situation is mostly about your own issues, as you demonstrate it seems?

[danumdon]

I don't think BRR likes being analysed RD.

His/her mission in life is to peddle Putin guff but when you challenge him/her on these matters there is plenty of evasion and no substance.

Oh but I love analysis! So if you have something to say, do be specific rather than vague with no substance.

And on that, in analysis it's well known that what you say in a reactive situation is mostly about your own issues, as you demonstrate it seems?

The irony is strong in this one, he managed to say all that without even batting an eyelid!!

[SydneyRover]

''Rustem Umerov: who is Ukraine’s next defence minister?''

''Umerov was born in Soviet Uzbekistan, the country his family had been exiled to under Stalin, and moved back to Crimea in Ukraine as a child when the Tatars were allowed to return in the 1980s and 1990s .......

....... Since annexing the peninsula in 2014, Russia has persecuted Crimea’s Tatars, who account for 12-15% of its 2 million residents. Most continue to support Ukraine.

Umerov’s appointment is a clear signal that Kyiv is determined to expel Russia and its occupying forces from Crimea, defence ministry sources suggest. Some of Ukraine’s western allies including the US are privately sceptical about the feasibility of this ambition .............

......... The Crimean Tatars were once the biggest ethnic group in Crimea. Successive rulers in Moscow persecuted them, beginning with Catherine the Great in the late 18th century, and including Stalin, who in 1944 ordered the deportation of the entire Tatar population. After Vladimir Putin’s illegal takeover of Crimea, harassment, arrests and disappearances of Tatars resumed''

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/04/rustem-umerov-who-is-ukraine-new-next-defence-minister

[Bristol Red Rover]

First dead Challenger report - could well be more. Next up Russians will capture one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTZdc37qZig

[i_ateallthepies]

Can't possibly be true, BRR, BBC are reporting it.

[glosterred]

First dead Challenger report - could well be more. Next up Russians will capture one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTZdc37qZig

And the crew survived.

[BillyStubbsTears]

First dead Challenger report - could well be more. Next up Russians will capture one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTZdc37qZig

And the crew survived.

Which is entirely the aim with Western armoured vehicles. You can replace platforms far more easily than you can replace trained crew. The Russian tanks by contrast have been awful at protecting crew. And many, many, many times more of them than Ukraine ones have been destroyed.

You'd think BRR would comment on that, given his commitment to the truth.

[Sprotyrover]

I have never heard anybody claim that the Challenger 2 was invincible, but it does seem to be the best tank in the world. It’s a pity we stopped making them , there’s a market out there,

[glosterred]

From Twitter/X   BBC’s Jonathon Beale

Challenger 2 in #Ukraine hit a mine - which immobilised it. Mine explosion caused a fire in rear fuel tank - at which point crew evacuated. Immobilised empty #Challenger2 was then targeted by #Russia Lancet drone - all according to western Def source

[Bristol Red Rover]

Which is entirely the aim with Western armoured vehicles. You can replace platforms far more easily than you can replace trained crew. The Russian tanks by contrast have been awful at protecting crew. And many, many, many times more of them than Ukraine ones have been destroyed.

You'd think BRR would comment on that, given his commitment to the truth.

A bit over characteristically excitable there BST, even with the pro western propaganda you feed off.

...and then you talk about truth?

Notably, no evidence yet of the crew having survived, not that I doubt that.

With around half of the supplied Leopards dead, or returned to their cages, Ukraine had to throw in the Challengers for this desperate final throw of the dice in the "Greatest ever Ukraine counter attack".

So far for maybe 50k losses of troops, and a huge loss of armour, Ukraine has gained a few fields overall. Next up a mobilisation of the diseased, 17 year olds, and men who left the Ukraine to avoid fighting and being slaughtered. The strategy has to be questioned.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I have never heard anybody claim that the Challenger 2 was invincible, but it does seem to be the best tank in the world. It’s a pity we stopped making them , there’s a market out there,

Different tanks suit different condistions. Like the Abrahm and to a lesser extent the Leopard, the Challenger is very heavy which makes it difficult to cross small bridges for example. Getting stuck deeper in the coming mud will probably rule it out of the battlefield for longer than the Russian tanks.

[TonySoprano]

First dead Challenger report - could well be more. Next up Russians will capture one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTZdc37qZig

Hope they're gonna pay for it

[i_ateallthepies]

"So far for maybe 50k losses of troops, and a huge loss of armour"

Is this evidence, BRR or just your perverted wishful thinking?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Great leader, Putin is, no?

https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1699083248083636489

Quiz question. Which other psychologically fragile, low grade thug took over a shattered empire and told them stories about Jews being to blame?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Great leader, Putin is, no?

https://twitter.com/irgarner/status/1699083248083636489

Quiz question. Which other psychologically fragile, low grade thug took over a shattered empire and told them stories about Jews being to blame?

Ukraine has been well known for it's anti semitism over the years. It's well evidenced and documented. More recently there is a lot of evidence of Nazi lovers in the Ukraine forces, and beyond. You know this.

So Putin was saying how the US puppet in power was partly used as a cover up attempt on this. Seems fair enough to me as a perspective to look at. I didn't hear anything against Jews.

But then you are someone who saw Corbyn as a raging anti semite. Nuff said.

Actually one of the points here when you post what you did is that you create a fog of what anti semitism is, including linking Putin to Hitler in this case. There is no comparison, your argument is twisted, much like the twisted arguments against Corbyn and many others. You play the special case to Jews whereby you don't treat them equally. THIS breeds real anti semitism. It's perverse and shameful.

[Bristol Red Rover]

"So far for maybe 50k losses of troops, and a huge loss of armour"

Is this evidence, BRR or just your perverted wishful thinking?

It's what I can gather from what is seen - eg many Ukraine units withdrawn from the front to restock with the new conscripts after losing battle capability, like with half of a force of 4000 lost, plus half their armour. it's happened a lot.

What numbers do you think are being lost where troops are being pumelled by Russian artillery and drones as they relentlessly push their way across the same few fields to try and satisfy their western sponsors?

Yes, Russia has lost many too at times, notably in taking Bakhmut, but especially over the last 3 months, Ukraine has thrown so many in fruitless attacks. Russian tactics are more to keep their troops in safer more protected situations, hence their tactic of stepping back a few hundred yards when tropps are vulnerable. Of course they still have losses, but the tendancy is that Ukraine is losing far more than Russia, armour and manpower. 50k losses in 3 months is a ball park figure but not far off.

[i_ateallthepies]

So, facts aren't remotely important to you.  Just your twisted wishlist.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Have you noticed?


When Russia first started chucking missiles into civilian areas, their useful idiots like BRR immediately jumped in and spewed out the Kremlin line that it was a precision attack on a NATO munitions dump. Like a ventriloquist dummy with Putin's hand up their arse.

Now, everyone is so brutalised and numbed by what Russia does on a daily basis that the useful idiots don't have the energy to keep jumping in with their lines.

This was today.

 https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1699403565419155738

[Iberian Red]

That's absolutely horrific!
Nobody can defend that barbaric murder,unless it's like some kind of perverse porn for them.
Let's see what he has to say.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Have you noticed?


When Russia first started chucking missiles into civilian areas, their useful idiots like BRR immediately jumped in and spewed out the Kremlin line that it was a precision attack on a NATO munitions dump. Like a ventriloquist dummy with Putin's hand up their arse.

Now, everyone is so brutalised and numbed by what Russia does on a daily basis that the useful idiots don't have the energy to keep jumping in with their lines.

This was today.

 https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1699403565419155738

Never one admission or condemnation of one of the many Ukraine *deliberate* attacks on civilians from Billy Blinkers.

On those recent civilian deaths, I don't know the full story, neother does Billy, though he'll leap to his reactive conclusions as usual. One story I heard, and evidenced by reflections in that vid, and where people are looking immediately before the explosion (ie probs tracking the incoming) suggests the missile was coming from the western direction, ie from Ukraine. Google this and you will find info.
eg https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1699450596149878983

Why would that be? For one, Ukraine has no track record of caring for its people. This was immediately before the final part of the US sec of state's visit. Ukraine desperate to get all the help from the West it can, and the US also wantng to keep public opinion on it's side.

[Bristol Red Rover]

So, facts aren't remotely important to you.  Just your twisted wishlist.

Vague

[River Don]

I have never heard anybody claim that the Challenger 2 was invincible, but it does seem to be the best tank in the world. It’s a pity we stopped making them , there’s a market out there,

It's the rifled gun isn't it, that means it uses none standard ammo? Acurate but different, which is a logistical nightmare. In this kind of attritional warfare you can't afford such complexity.

Also the very good but heavy armour makes it slow. I wonder if they shouldn't have traded off more protection for manouverability?

I'm basically talking out of my arse here having only read a couple of articles online. I'm happy to be put right.

[Not Now Kato]

https://www.minusrus.com/en?__cf_chl_tk=YJhP7Wlif36HSzGsUQIuLw06l2uWZQE3ADfxDqESZu0-1677656834-0-gaNycGzNCvs

[Bristol Red Rover]

https://www.minusrus.com/en?__cf_chl_tk=YJhP7Wlif36HSzGsUQIuLw06l2uWZQE3ADfxDqESZu0-1677656834-0-gaNycGzNCvs

More Russian manpower, tank, artillery losses than they have. Interesting.

[River Don]

https://www.minusrus.com/en?__cf_chl_tk=YJhP7Wlif36HSzGsUQIuLw06l2uWZQE3ADfxDqESZu0-1677656834-0-gaNycGzNCvs

More Russian manpower, tank, artillery losses than they have. Interesting.

Russia naturally has the weight of numbers. Maybe is scale enough?

But then they are up against a much larger foe. The entire West. I see the rubble *sorry ruble is still crumbling....