Ukraine

[Bristol Red Rover]

Huh?

[silent majority]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

[BessieBlue]

There is nothing wrong with the BBC - the politicians in this country don't like the BBC for goodness sake.

On the other hand anything that comes out of Russia has to be taken with a pinch of salt!!

[silent majority]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

[SydneyRover]

Interest rates in russia 15%, it must be good to have control?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

[glosterred]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

Can you provide a link to this information so we can verify what you said is true?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

Can you provide a link to this information so we can verify what you said is true?

   
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/11/02/russia-downed-17-ukrainian-mig-29s-in-10-days-two-dozen-left/

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/mig29-ukraine-russia/

[silent majority]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

Can you provide a link to this information so we can verify what you said is true?

   
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/11/02/russia-downed-17-ukrainian-mig-29s-in-10-days-two-dozen-left/

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/mig29-ukraine-russia/

And both those bastions of independent journalism use the statements from the Russian Ministry of Defence and actually can't agree with each other. That's your evidence?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/06/the-ukrainian-air-force-lost-62-planes-in-2022-so-far-in-2023-it-has-lost-just-seven/?sh=5aef0d8241b3

[silent majority]

Has anybody watched the film '20 days in Mariupol'?

Proper journalism, and particularly heartbreaking.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

Can you provide a link to this information so we can verify what you said is true?

   
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/11/02/russia-downed-17-ukrainian-mig-29s-in-10-days-two-dozen-left/

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/mig29-ukraine-russia/

And both those bastions of independent journalism use the statements from the Russian Ministry of Defence and actually can't agree with each other. That's your evidence?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/06/the-ukrainian-air-force-lost-62-planes-in-2022-so-far-in-2023-it-has-lost-just-seven/?sh=5aef0d8241b3

Forbes wouldn't be western based would it?

The thing is only a v few western news outlets publish anything but unavoidable reports on Western failings. All across the front Ukraine's are stepping back, as reported by all mapping sources. In a few areas they're making v slight gains and in the process in all of these they're losing huge amounts of troops and armour.

Current Ukraine mobilisation is focused on women and 18 to 20 year olds.

Back to the planes - markedly less stormshadow launches since I said about their losses.

[silent majority]

Something not reported in pro Ukraine media - Ukraine lost 24 aircraft in the last 6 days, mainly mig 29s. Russia using a new anti aircraft missile that can reach 400km, reportedly already upgraded to 600km.this, with the progressive destruction of Ukraine air defence seems to suggest that Russian air superiority is nearing the stage where they can have relative freedom over East and Central Ukraine. Meanwhile Ukraine's ability to use the Storm Shadow bombs will be severely restricted, likely to mean Crimea is not nearly so easy to strike.

The reason it’s not being reported is that there is no evidence to support those claims.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Because the BBC always deals in fact, isn't a propaganda machine? And because Ukraine reports its losses?

You state the opposite is true. Any evidence for that?

Why bring the BBC into this, I never mentioned them?

BBC/MSM...

You said the "opposite is true".  What are you saying, and where do you get that from?

Can you provide a link to this information so we can verify what you said is true?

   
https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/2023/11/02/russia-downed-17-ukrainian-mig-29s-in-10-days-two-dozen-left/

https://defencesecurityasia.com/en/mig29-ukraine-russia/

And both those bastions of independent journalism use the statements from the Russian Ministry of Defence and actually can't agree with each other. That's your evidence?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2023/08/06/the-ukrainian-air-force-lost-62-planes-in-2022-so-far-in-2023-it-has-lost-just-seven/?sh=5aef0d8241b3

Forbes wouldn't be western based would it?

The thing is only a v few western news outlets publish anything but unavoidable reports on Western failings. All across the front Ukraine's are stepping back, as reported by all mapping sources. In a few areas they're making v slight gains and in the process in all of these they're losing huge amounts of troops and armour.

Current Ukraine mobilisation is focused on women and 18 to 20 year olds.

Back to the planes - markedly less stormshadow launches since I said about their losses.

Yes, I keep forgetting about that fine upstanding Russian propaganda machine and their reputation for fair and unbiased reporting!!! How silly of me.

[Bristol Red Rover]

You miss my overall point. Western mainstream media is generally so far off the mark with the real situation. Russian media can be too. Most who follow only western media are under the illusion that Ukraine is doing well. It clearly isn't, something that can be seen from well evidenced mapping and understanding possible strategies from well evidenced incidents. Along with this there is the issue of the potential of Ukraine/US funding of the war v Russian funding. Again, western media gives an unrealistic view unless you follow the details.

In this case, can you explain why storm shadow use has practically stopped, or entirely stopped? Seems odd given its occasional success. Admittedly, proportionally more appear to have been shot down so it could be a progressively expensive, prohibitive, option.

[i_ateallthepies]

You miss my overall point. Western mainstream media is generally so far off the mark with the real situation. Russian media can be too. Most who follow only western media are under the illusion that Ukraine is doing well. It clearly isn't, something that can be seen from well evidenced mapping and understanding possible strategies from well evidenced incidents. Along with this there is the issue of the potential of Ukraine/US funding of the war v Russian funding. Again, western media gives an unrealistic view unless you follow the details.

In this case, can you explain why storm shadow use has practically stopped, or entirely stopped? Seems odd given its occasional success. Admittedly, proportionally more appear to have been shot down so it could be a progressively expensive, prohibitive, option.

Given that Poo-Tin's expectation was that Russian tanks would be rolling into Kiev after about four days I think you're a bit off the mark there, BRR... Nothing changes.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Ah,  your version of Ukraine doing well is that its still standing? Standing, like a one legged cow? Or are you going with the latest blatant BBC propaganda that Russia is running out of missiles? Ouch.

[i_ateallthepies]

I'll stick with my own reading of it, thanks.  Thus far, nothing you've said on this topic has the remotest connection with reality.

[BessieBlue]

The peddler of Putin guff is continuing to peddle said guff - shameful.

[Bristol Red Rover]

I'll stick with my own reading of it, thanks.  Thus far, nothing you've said on this topic has the remotest connection with reality.

Bit of a wild swipe of a statement there. I wonder what it is you're reading that you feel is bringing you contact with reality?

Same goes for anyone else reading this.

[River Don]

I just don't get it Bristol, what is it about Putin you admire? What is it about modern Russia that's so attractive? Why should Ukraine want to remain a part of it?

[ncRover]

You miss my overall point. Western mainstream media is generally so far off the mark with the real situation. Russian media can be too. Most who follow only western media are under the illusion that Ukraine is doing well. It clearly isn't, something that can be seen from well evidenced mapping and understanding possible strategies from well evidenced incidents. Along with this there is the issue of the potential of Ukraine/US funding of the war v Russian funding. Again, western media gives an unrealistic view unless you follow the details.

In this case, can you explain why storm shadow use has practically stopped, or entirely stopped? Seems odd given its occasional success. Admittedly, proportionally more appear to have been shot down so it could be a progressively expensive, prohibitive, option.

It’s simple - Western culture values objective truth more than Russian culture, and the contrast is particularly stark at the establishment and media level.

“The term "political correctness" first appeared in Marxist-Leninist vocabulary following the Russian Revolution of 1917. At that time, it was used to describe strict adherence to the policies and principles of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, that is, the party line. The phrase was later used in the 1930s to describe dogmatic adherence to ideology in authoritarian regimes, such as Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia.”

Since then Russia has only lasted 8 years without an authoritarian anti free speech leadership relatively speaking (1991-1998)

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I ask this question, largely to Bristol.

Russia has achieved what?  Deaths of thousands of its people, thousands of Ukrainian citizens, tonnes of cities/towns destroyed, Nato growth, western defence spending increased, assets siezed, oligarchs thrown out of the west, currency devalued and economy tanked.  Remind me again about the success they're having because I must be missing it?

[turnbull for england]

I ask this question, largely to Bristol.

Russia has achieved what?  Deaths of thousands of its people, thousands of Ukrainian citizens, tonnes of cities/towns destroyed, Nato growth, western defence spending increased, assets siezed, oligarchs thrown out of the west, currency devalued and economy tanked.  Remind me again about the success they're having because I must be missing it?

It's worth adding the environmental impact on this list too, what's been released into the atmosphere /ground  as a direct result of Putin's action  must be beyond measure

[Bristol Red Rover]

I just don't get it Bristol, what is it about Putin you admire? What is it about modern Russia that's so attractive? Why should Ukraine want to remain a part of it?

First of all you have to consider how Ukraine has been used by the west, mainly the US with the UK as lap dog. The US thought it could win this war easily, or at least stress Russia to the point of collapse - epic fail on both counts as far as can be seen. And then you can ask why Ukraine would want to be part of Russia, part of the US empire or remain as it was with feet in both camps, something that was possible up until Johnson interfered, after the invasion when a peace agreement was being processed, with promises that haven't materialised - sound familiar?

Back to the media you are using in forming your opinions, what are you using? Yes, Russian propaganda is strong, as is the case with many countries. The Western propaganda is effective in the west, but actually doesn't hold up in the "truth" stakes either.

As I have said many times, I'm not pro Russian, far from it. I'm not pro western either. Most on this board are because they have swallowed the western propaganda.

This war is geopolitics, empires battling it out. Empires all run by similar mafia type organisations. Some more sophisticated, sugar coated that others, plus there are simply different characteristics of peoples where different systems work.

[ravenrover]

Not pro Russian or pro West?
Just a wind up merchant then?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Not pro Russian or pro West?
Just a wind up merchant then?

Take me through your thought process there, sweet bean.

[ravenrover]

My post asks the question you could try answering it, but never mind cherub

[SydneyRover]

Russian expansionism?

''Opinion: Will the Kremlin’s war soon expand to a second front in Georgia?''

https://kyivindependent.com/opinion-will-the-kremlins-war-soon-expand-to-a-second-front-in-georgia/

[Bristol Red Rover]

My post asks the question you could try answering it, but never mind cherub

Clearly answered you. Or are you a wind up merchant? That was the bean point, soothing your paranoia.

To help you, you asked 2 questions. The answer to the  first was already clear in my post. The second question was a blind leap of yours, straight to an insult, missing out the bleedin obvious which is that I'm not pro either external oppressive force.

[ncRover]

What unbiased sources of information would you accept BRR?