Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: DonnyBazR0ver on June 23, 2018, 01:21:20 am
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I've had a debate with a mate about Rovers finances. He's not a fan and views things from a distance. He thinks TB should be putting in more money because of his personal wealth.
I'm of the opinion that whatever TB and the other owners, is what it is and we have to make the best of it.
In his eyes, TB has to put more money in, or sell up if football is not his major interest.
I don't know what his major interests are but, do you think he should stop his funding and openly advertise the club for sale. Or in my mates words "Get out and let someone else do it"
So, the bottom line. Stick or sell?
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TB has put plenty of money in and continues to do so by all accounts. It's his money, we have no God given right to expect vast sums just because he has it in his locker.
As far as I'm aware the owners have said that if someone comes along with the funds and the future of the club at heart then they would sell. Until such a time as that happens I sincerely hope they stay as they are doing an excellent job.
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Stick.
I hate this notion that just because he is rich, he has to blow all his money on funding the club. Sustainability is far better for any club.
There are very very few chairman around the country who could walk away and wouldn't try and reclaim some money, having given it for the love of their club. Andy Holt maybe? Bramall has already wrote off significant sums of money, meaning the club owe him no debt. If Abramovic or the Sheikhs walked away Chelsea and City would be in serious trouble, even with their sizable income streams. If Bramall walked away, it'd be bad, but we could tide it over while looking for investment.
I can't even be bothered to list all the crooked owners that have wandered through football causing devastation, there are that many. We had Richardson ffs. I'm perfectly glad to have somebody who has the best interests of the club and community at the heart, and not someone who is thinking how to make any penny they can at the club's expense.
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Stick.
I hate this notion that just because he is rich, he has to blow all his money on funding the club. Sustainability is far better for any club.
There are very very few chairman around the country who could walk away and wouldn't try and reclaim some money, having given it for the love of their club. Andy Holt maybe? Bramall has already wrote off significant sums of money, meaning the club owe him no debt. If Abramovic or the Sheikhs walked away Chelsea and City would be in serious trouble, even with their sizable income streams. If Bramall walked away, it'd be bad, but we could tide it over while looking for investment.
I can't even be bothered to list all the crooked owners that have wandered through football causing devastation, there are that many. We had Richardson ffs. I'm perfectly glad to have somebody who has the best interests of the club and community at the heart, and not someone who is thinking how to make any penny they can at the club's expense.
Great post agree 100%
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My kids don’t think I give them enough money despite my obvious wealth. I’m trying to encourage and educate them to become self sufficient for when I’m no longer here.
Do you think I should stick or leave in the hope a future step-Dad (if one comes along) gives them the privileged lifestyle they assume they should expect?
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We are assuming there are masses willing to invest.
I am sure TB would welcome investment from the right person but they simply do not exist.
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My kids don’t think I give them enough money despite my obvious wealth. I’m trying to encourage and educate them to become self sufficient for when I’m no longer here.
Do you think I should stick or leave in the hope a future step-Dad (if one comes along) gives them the privileged lifestyle they assume they should expect?
Great post.
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Ah, a thread on the funding of the club, this makes for a refreshing change of discussion.
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Just wait until we take a trip down the time tunnel.
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Thankfully every supporter of this club is not like your mate, and mostly appreciate the owners we have.
Would he like owners like Man Utd or Spurs who take money out of the club, in Spurs case £15 million a year.
Ask your mate if he would be willing to put the same percentage of his earnings into the club every week small as it is in his eyes.
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I think it might help if people look at TB's way of running our club like this,Many fans think TB does not want to spend alot of money on the club,Wrong! I think TB wants to spend alot of money on Rovers,but he wants it to be spent wiser than in the past,and wiser than many other club owners do,and ultimately,wants us to get much more back for the money invested.An exegerated example,A= spend 30 million over 2 years sh]t or bust or b=spend 30 million over 10 years.Both options spend same amount,but option b giving stability over 10 years.
Disappointing as it is for us fans to accept,after being spoilt under J.R's eagerness to go for it,It's a definte Stick from me.
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Drover, that's fair enough, but the owners are not 'sticking', they are 'going for it', by declaring Championship football in the next couple of years.
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Stick , we will not find a better run club any where . Though investment is tied to sustainable returns , I’m sure if the situation made it imperative that an increase was necessary to achieve a goal ( excuse the pun ) it would be inplace without hesitation. DF left perhaps because he hadn’t provided the right situation to bring this in now and just didn’t want to wait until we were knocking at the door .
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Terry is 75 and the money he has is finite, he made the majority from selling Keepmoat and if he was to spend it the way some of our fans want it'd all be gone in a year or so and he'd be as poor as us. He wants the best for us and wants to long term see us stand up on our own two feet without the need for large investments. We should be lucky we've got someone who's so charitable with no hidden motives.
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Think this must be the way that society in general sees things ie wanting everything now be it goods or success.
We’ve contributed to this with our recent history
As much as I’d love to see us playing at a higher level I can still remember the despair I felt when we played our final game in the league at OBV before relegation into the conference and possibly oblivion.
Yes there are big bucks to be had in higher leagues but you can’t gamble everything on one shot at it, the owners are building something.
As in TB’s previous business (and let’s remember that Rovers is a business) you don’t throw a roof on a pile of bricks without making sure it’s structurally sound first
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I think that people of different ages also look at things in different ways.
The older fans remember life before instant credit and credited it cards and interest free loans.
You spent the cash in your pocket and saved what you could for things with the odd bit of hp thrown in. Now there are stores and loan firms promising paradise without explaining the implications. A totally different outlook on finance and good housekeeping?
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I believe we have some of the best, most reliable owners in the business. Thank goodness.
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Stick, im sure they would look at it if a potential buyer was around, but there isn't one at the minute and better the devil you know sort of thing
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Interesting to see what happens at cosmopolitan Barnsley just down the road. Foreign manager took them down, Chinese? owners is it?? When they came in Barnsley were at Boro, Leeds, Derby etc, wonder if the owners will be in the executive box (portakabin) at Accrington on a cold snowy February night?..at least our board are Donny and although maybe not as through and through as JR was I still think they do a grand job. I do remember the boards of old I liked Bernie Boldry but he was simply a Doncaster accountant, Ben Bailey- built my mum's house in Mexborough in the 60's just honest businessmen with few bob- which is why we flirted with re-election year on year in Div 4. Apart from the season before last we have never looked back since re-entering the FL so they have my 100% backing...
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Ah, a thread on the funding of the club, this makes for a refreshing change of discussion.
it is a debate, or dont you understand the word,what else is there to talk about this time of the year. Give the man a chance as it was what he was talkig to a friend about , not what he believes
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Ah, a thread on the funding of the club, this makes for a refreshing change of discussion.
it is a debate, or dont you understand the word,what else is there to talk about this time of the year. Give the man a chance as it was what he was talkig to a friend about , not what he believes
RedJ doesn't want debate he just wants 100% agreement. As long as you agree with him though.
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Not that at all, it's just f**king tedious reading thread after thread about it.
And yes I am aware you can not read them, but the majority of them turn out the same way don't they.
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I agree with people that are right and see other peoples opinions, that is what debating is all about not just wiping other peoples backsides. I am for the directors BUT i wont lick there arses like some
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Sorry to start another thread and I'm sick of regurgitating the same thing but was concerned that maybe those who no longer attend are maybe thinking the same.
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Stick, don't think many owners would have the patience to put up with impatient moaning gets like me, and a few others on here. :silly:
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Stick, don't think many owners would have the patience to put up with impatient moaning gets like me, and a few others on here. :silly:
I bet they'd be equally nauseated by some of the cap doffing sycophants on here too! :ohmy:
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Stick, don't think many owners would have the patience to put up with impatient moaning gets like me, and a few others on here. :silly:
I bet they'd be equally nauseated by some of the cap doffing sycophants on here too! :ohmy:
Aye, moaning gets or brown nosing gets?
Personally I like moaning
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I must admit I like moaning at people who moan about me moaning.
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Yeah I genuinely think there are more people moaning about people moaning, than there are actually people moaning.
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
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Shut up moaning !
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
d**khead.
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I sometimes wonder who the bellends around me at the KM who moan for the sake of moaning and absolutely love it when things go awry on and off the pitch. I now know who they are. It's Raggytash and his tedious Board kicking mates.
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
d**khead.
A very erudite response from a long distance brown noser who attends maybe one game a season.
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I sometimes wonder who the bellends around me at the KM who moan for the sake of moaning and absolutely love it when things go awry on and off the pitch. I now know who they are. It's Raggytash and his tedious Board kicking mates.
they probably moan cos they have paid there money to moan, same as you have paid your money not to
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
d**khead.
A very erudite response from a long distance brown noser who attends maybe one game a season.
Does that make him less of a fan?
As for raggytash and his mouthpiece words fail me, give us a few names or examples of these multi millionaires queueing up to buy the club? I think it has been said previously that TB would sell the club if the right investor came in, thankfully he has seen off the last 2 attempts wonder where we would be now if he hadn't heh raggy?
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
d**khead.
A very erudite response from a long distance brown noser who attends maybe one game a season.
Does that make him less of a fan?
As for raggytash and his mouthpiece words fail me, give us a few names or examples of these multi millionaires queueing up to buy the club? I think it has been said previously that TB would sell the club if the right investor came in, thankfully he has seen off the last 2 attempts wonder where we would be now if he hadn't heh raggy?
I think follower is probably a better description than fan.
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Whether the board are football fans or not they still own the club. Much the same as you may own your own home or car but you are not forced to look after it. My understanding is that the owners have penny shares in the club, and the board make up any losses from their own personal finances and award themselves the equivalent number of penny shares. That means we are never in debt as a club, but also means that whatever the board members put in gives them a bigger share of the club. Win, win.
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It's simple numbers. With 7,000 fans in the club, if we each donate £4,286 to the club we can raise £30 million and push for promotion. So how many fans will cough up £4,286? If not many, why should the board contribute massive sums either.
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The Rovers board is was it is and TB owns a large slice of the action. I agree with SM that earning your position is much better than instant gratification, many here moan about big clubs because they have more money. TB could possibly put more money in but that money may be invested in a business paying the wages of others.
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It's simple numbers. With 7,000 fans in the club, if we each donate £4,286 to the club we can raise £30 million and push for promotion. So how many fans will cough up £4,286? If not many, why should the board contribute massive sums either.
Why do we need £30 million?
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Irish syndicate, Sequentia Capital, were going to inject that sort of money to get us promoted. Whatever the exact figure, why should fans expect the board to contribute millions every year when they won't contribute thousands themselves? I don't know exactly what we need for promotion but £30 million should guarantee it.
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How much money do you think the fans contribute?
How much money do you think the board should contribute?
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A board with no ambition is just as bad as having no team, fair enough no debt, but likewise if that’s the case put the club up for sale where there’s investment, Baldwin’s the biggest yes man you’ll ever see!!
utter bobbins without foundation
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Irish syndicate, Sequentia Capital, were going to inject that sort of money to get us promoted. Whatever the exact figure, why should fans expect the board to contribute millions every year when they won't contribute thousands themselves? I don't know exactly what we need for promotion but £30 million should guarantee it.
The problem there is the amount talked about was just that - talked about. No funds were ever proven to exist, let alone likely to be injected into Rovers.
The VSC did it's job by questioning the proposed new owners about the details (including the proposed financing), in the VSC's role as a shareholder of looking after the best interests of Rovers. The response was a solicitor's letter threatening the VSC and individual board members. So forgive me for not sharing your belief that there was ever £30mill (or whichever figure was the latest to have been bandied about, it changed from time to time) in existence.
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Irish syndicate, Sequentia Capital, were going to inject that sort of money to get us promoted. Whatever the exact figure, why should fans expect the board to contribute millions every year when they won't contribute thousands themselves? I don't know exactly what we need for promotion but £30 million should guarantee it.
A quick point of order. SC claimed they had £30m but when due diligence was done they didn't have that. They didn't have a penny.
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Strange lot, that SC. For a company with all that money and a bunch of hot shot investors running it, they had a website designed by a 12 year old, full of odd stories about nothing in particular,m. I’ve just gone to have a look at it again this morning. Its certificate has expired. And there’s no record on the internet of SC ever having done any significant business either before they were interested in us, or afterwards.
It’s almost as if...
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What was JR thinking bringing them to the table? I like to think he just saw the hope of taking us on to a level he couldn't and got clouded by that, but I must admit I lost a bit of respect for him over all of that. Kudos to those who pulled the curtain back and revealed the truth about those shysters.
Don't get me wrong though, JR still has loads of goodwill in the bank for all he's done for this club over the years, so I'm not trying to slate him. I'm eternally grateful for him but the Sequentia stuff was a step too far.
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Strange lot, that SC. For a company with all that money and a bunch of hot shot investors running it, they had a website designed by a 12 year old, full of odd stories about nothing in particular,m. I’ve just gone to have a look at it again this morning. Its certificate has expired. And there’s no record on the internet of SC ever having done any significant business either before they were interested in us, or afterwards.
It’s almost as if...
https://web.archive.org/web/20141218073033/http://sequentiacapital.com/ (https://web.archive.org/web/20141218073033/http://sequentiacapital.com/)
That one? It was different back in 2013 and I couldn't remember what year it was.
Apparently it started redirecting to custosholdings.com which said it was an investment company in the Cayman Islands and that now directs to charisconsultancy.co.uk (http://charisconsultancy.co.uk)
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Doesn't seem shady at all.
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Would the board have gone through with the deal if the VSC hadn't intervened and pointed out the inadequacies of Sequentia?
By the way, this is not intended as a mischievous question, I'd just like to know more of that period in Rovers history.
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And off we go down the time tunnel.
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DF didn't mention anything about the budget in his resignation message, and I've not seen anything anywhere else where he has mentioned it. If I've missed it, can you point me to where he has?
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Would the board have gone through with the deal if the VSC hadn't intervened and pointed out the inadequacies of Sequentia?
By the way, this is not intended as a mischievous question, I'd just like to know more of that period in Rovers history.
The VSC couldn't really point out anything more than that it's questions had been ignored. As it eventually turned out that the money was completely illusory it's very difficult to know what fairy stories were told to the Directors at the time, nor how much they were believed.
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Some interesting questions from a few. Its hardly the right thread, or the right time to answer most of these though.
I've said it before and I'll repeat it here, this is still not the right time to elaborate on the happenings of that particular period. That sequence of events has not concluded.
I'm glad that the solicitors are no longer planning to make me bankrupt and take my house off me though!!!
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Glyn_Wigley
“DF didn't mention anything about the budget in his resignation message, and I've not seen anything anywhere else where he has mentioned it. If I've missed it, can you point me to where he has?”
https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/doncaster-rovers-did-not-get-much-credit-for-promotion-from-league-two-andy-butler-1-9218064
Paul Goodwin of the DFP says quite clearly it was a budget issue:-
"The Scot said he had “no alternative” to walk away after failing to see eye to eye with the board about the playing budget required to push Rovers into play-off contention."
Or did he make it up and the DFP are not to be relied on?
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Glyn_Wigley
“DF didn't mention anything about the budget in his resignation message, and I've not seen anything anywhere else where he has mentioned it. If I've missed it, can you point me to where he has?”
https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/doncaster-rovers-did-not-get-much-credit-for-promotion-from-league-two-andy-butler-1-9218064
Paul Goodwin of the DFP says quite clearly it was a budget issue:-
"The Scot said he had “no alternative” to walk away after failing to see eye to eye with the board about the playing budget required to push Rovers into play-off contention."
Or did he make it up and the DFP are not to be relied on?
That's The Star's interpretation. I still haven't seen anything directly attributable to DF. What's the DFP got to do with it?
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Oops, The Star not DFP, but I read anything I can find about Rovers from any source.
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You said you haven't seen anything anywhere. So I have given you a reputable source. Do you want a personal statement from DF himself? No pleasing you.
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Well it isn't a quote, is it? so he hasn't said anything himself about the budget.
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Well it isn't a quote, is it? so he hasn't said anything himself about the budget.
Exactly. For all I know this reputable journalist has done what they usually do and used a short cut and read this forum with loads of people saying it's the budget (without any basis) and reported it as fact. It wouldn't be the first time.
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You said you hadn't seen it written anywhere so I gave you a source. Not all reporting is direct word-for-word quotes. So in your opinion all reporting is untrue unless it comes only from the Rovers official site. God, we would have nothing to talk about if we only relied on what little they tell us.
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Ah yes the only place that can publish quotes in the entire world is the Rovers website.
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Or this site according to some
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You said you hadn't seen it written anywhere so I gave you a source. Not all reporting is direct word-for-word quotes. So in your opinion all reporting is untrue unless it comes only from the Rovers official site. God, we would have nothing to talk about if we only relied on what little they tell us.
No, anywhere where DF is directly quoted, which is what I said I haven't seen in my original post. I still haven't seen that. It must be out there for other people to attribute it to him, so knock yourself out and show me. Unless it isn't, of course. Why should I believe The Star's idea of what's happened?
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You said you hadn't seen it written anywhere so I gave you a source. Not all reporting is direct word-for-word quotes. So in your opinion all reporting is untrue unless it comes only from the Rovers official site. God, we would have nothing to talk about if we only relied on what little they tell us.
No I didn't, read my post again. I've seen it written lots of times - it was bandied about as the truth all over here within half an hour of his resignation message - but nowhere have I seen DF say it.
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Or this site according to some
And by that you mean you when you made it up just now that people think that.
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All I want is confirmation that DF has said it. Not that other people think he said it.
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Glyn, you really are a habitual whinger. I did the work for you and gave you a link to The Star article. If you care enough why don’t you email Paul Goodwin at the The Star and just ask him your question? That’s the intelligent thing to do.
There was a thread on here about league one budgets so I email the source, got an answer, and posted the reply on the same thread. The budget figures came from a FIFA football game. I thought that was the sensible way forward to stop all the arguments.
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You thought that the sensible way to stop arguments was to post information that the people got from a game?
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You are twisting my words. I merely investigated and explained where the stats came from on the thread. I did not start that thread. The original poster was working from stats that came from a game and was posted in an article he was quoting.
You really have nothing better to do than try to wind people up, Sorry, you lose again.
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I agree, Rig, but some won't believe the budget was a factor because the source was not the official Rovers site. I had mixed views on Ferguson, but it is probably better for the club that he has moved on and we can try a new style of management.
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Glyn, you really are a habitual whinger. I did the work for you and gave you a link to The Star article. If you care enough why don’t you email Paul Goodwin at the The Star and just ask him your question? That’s the intelligent thing to do.
I said I haven't seen anywhere that DF had said that the budget was why he resigned. You might have done some work but you didn't show me that either. Why should I ask Paul Goodwin anything? You brought him into this, not me. And he's not the one that's spread the rumour all over this forum as soon as DF resigned as if it was fact when as far as I can see there is no evidence for it anywhere. Journalists have printed stories based on crap they've read on this forum before and I don't doubt they'll keep on doing it to fill their space up. Just because it's in a paper doesn't mean it's the truth - do you believe everything The Sun prints?
I don't doubt that it could very well be that the budget is part - or even the sole - reason DF left. What I am pointing out is that I have seen no direct evidence that that was the reason DF left. It just looks like a lot of people, especially those that 'habitually whinge' about the budgets, have added two and two together and merely think they've got four.