Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Off Topic => Topic started by: Not Now Kato on March 13, 2021, 09:21:12 am
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https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/20210304STO99236/building-tomorrow-s-europe-eu-paves-way-for-conference-on-the-future-of-europe
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Shouldn’t this be in the ‘Benefits of Brexit’ thread?
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We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.
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power without glory
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Shouldn’t this be in the ‘Benefits of Brexit’ thread?
I don't think so. How does the EU looking to improve itself for the benefit of its member states benefit the UK? We've left.
It's a pity we couldn't be a major part of that change, but hey....
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en
Who will benefit from this proposal?
Businesses will benefit from a substantial reduction in cross-border VAT compliance costs. This will facilitate greater cross-border trade.
EU businesses will be able to compete on equal footing with non-EU businesses that are not charging VAT.
Member States will gain through an increase in VAT revenues of EUR 7 billion annually.
Of course, this only applies to Member States, and so Brexit loses yet again!
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We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom were conned into voting to leave the European Union, to their detriment!
Fixed that for you BB.
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Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.
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Every conference I’ve ever been too has been shit. The fewer the better, I say.
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Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.
that's a bit selby, bb.
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
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Every conference I’ve ever been too has been shit. The fewer the better, I say.
Guess the common denominator...
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Thanks for fixing that NNK, it could well be to the EU's detriment.
It certainly was to the EU's detriment, we were a major part of it as senior members. Difference is BB, we are just a small single island, they are far far bigger and will be able to weather the loss much better than we will; as trade figures are already showing.
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NNK, I look at it like this. We managed without being members of the EU before and we'll manage again. We've always been just a small island, and the rest of Europe has always been far bigger.
The trade figures showing now are Covid related and things can only get better in that respect, otherwise, we're all doomed irrespective of whether we're in the EU or not anyway.
A hypothetical question, but one that would answer the real issue of opinions over EU membership would be to ask the people of those countries that actually contribute to it in the form of a referendum.
I doubt the EU leaders would dare do that.
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NNK, I look at it like this. We managed without being members of the EU before and we'll manage again. We've always been just a small island, and the rest of Europe has always been far bigger.
The trade figures showing now are Covid related and things can only get better in that respect, otherwise, we're all doomed irrespective of whether we're in the EU or not anyway.
A hypothetical question, but one that would answer the real issue of opinions over EU membership would be to ask the people of those countries that actually contribute to it in the form of a referendum.
I doubt the EU leaders would dare do that.
BB, the world was a different place back then and some of us have moved on, others want to go backwards - I guess you're one of them? Globalisation has happened, we either need to be part of it or we'll be left behind - is the latter what you really want?
Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid, though the right wing media would have you believe otherwise. Why else would border contolls, (a major tenet of Brexit - control our own borders), be put back?
border checks have been pushed back : -
pre notification requirements/ export health certificates for animal origin not now required until October;
deferred declaration customs extended Jan 2022;
Safety and Security Declarations Jan 2022;
physical agrioood checks on imports Jan 2022;
live animal checks March 2022.
bugger all to do with Covid mate!
As to your rather silly hypothetical question, apart from ultra right wing organisations, I am not aware of ordinary folk in the EU wanting out. Why would anyone want to run a referendum that would be against the interests of ordinary folk? Oh, wait.....
I realise you voted to remain. I understand why you would want to support a democratic decision. But why, in God's name, you think what is happening is a good thing for this country is beyond me. Are you arguing against reason for the sheer fun of it? Or are you just another internet WUM?
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I never said leaving the EU was a good thing. What I've always said is since the vote we are all leavers and there are no Remainers in reality, only Remoaners.
Regarding your question of "Why would anyone want to run a referendum that would be against the interests of ordinary folk?" sounds like a statement that a communist leadership would ask.
Incidentally, the French opinion polls are more in favour of them leaving than ours were in 2016.
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We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.
To be honest BB, your above post should answer the question that NNK has given to the title of this thread.
That should be the end of it really.
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It is the answer, Hound, and it should be the end of it but as you know from experience over the last 4 or 5 years on here, they are not really questions, they are just new threads that are started with the intention to provoke.
I said years ago that it reminded me of that TV comedy the Office when David Brent and Finchy wouldn't accept they had lost the pub quiz and claimed it was a false result.
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It is the answer, Hound, and it should be the end of it but as you know from experience over the last 4 or 5 years on here, they are not really questions, they are just new threads that are started with the intention to provoke.
I said years ago that it reminded me of that TV comedy the Office when David Brent and Finchy wouldn't accept they had lost the pub quiz and claimed it was a false result.
Yes, that was quite funny wasn’t it.
I agree totally with that first paragraph of yours too.
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We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".
But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.
So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."
A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.
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Not. You really are going to have to start accepting what has happened if you are ever going to get out of this bitter mindset of yours.
I’ve accepted that my explanations of why I voted leave have fallen on completely deaf ears, and that I am now ignorantly and incorrectly labelled as an little Englander who hates Europe and Europeans by many people. And the evidence is my vote.
However your attack on a poster who voted to remain, but accepts the democratic procedure and then tries to deal with it with positivity and and encouragement, is quite scary. A WUM? Really?
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If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?
It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.
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We left the EU because On Thursday 23 June 2016 a referendum took place and the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union.
That's one reason but not THE reason.
Because that vote was merely an advisory referendum. The question asked being:
Should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?
Note use of the word 'should' and the lack of reference to any specific terms on which the UK should remain or leave.
However, the outcome of the advisory referendum was interpreted by successive Conservative administrations as being, initially, a directive to take us out of some EU institutions - what some call a 'soft' Brexit - and then, ultimately, to exit every EU institution and partition Northern Ireland for trade purposes - what some call a 'hard' Brexit.
Remember that. It was their interpretation. Not yours or mine.
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We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".
But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.
So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."
A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.
A start would be if you bad loser Remoaners accepted you lost and got on with it, instead of going on, and on, and on, and on. and on, and on, and f**king on about all the reasons why we should have stayed in the EU' and refusing point blank to shut the f**k up, accept it, and get on with it.
I find it quite amusing that on the football forum, people are told to f**k off and support Leeds if they slag the club off for, for instance, comparing the side now to the one under Sean O'Driscoll in the Championship. What makes it hilarious is it is often the very same people who on this forum slag the country off and talk about how great it was back in the EU.
I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told to f**k off and live in Germany?
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If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?
It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.
I said the 41% drop in exports was Covid related, not responsible for it.
If you are so convincingly right, why do you have to rely on misquotes to get your point across?
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The liberal elite going back and forwards to meet up with the EU leaders turning everyone against the EU fools that they were belittling everyone telling them they didn't know what they were doing
When the educated idiots didn't know how they were hurting their own
stance by going on about it.
And the educated idiots are still making the same mistakes, aren't you.
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If COVID is responsible for a 41% drop in our exports to the EU in January, how are we to explain the fact that exports to the rest of the world went up by 2%?
It's this insistence on ignoring inconvenient facts and batting away any adverse consequence of Brexit that sours the discussion. It is what you get when you come with your mind made up and aren't prepared to properly consider the evidence.
I said the 41% drop in exports was Covid related, not responsible for it.
If you are so convincingly right, why do you have to rely on misquotes to get your point across?
Misrepresentation.
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If BST was Prime Minister and not just the leader of the Britain Surrendering Together party, I wonder on how many occasions he would have had to resign for misrepresentation?
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We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".
But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.
So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."
A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.
A start would be if you bad loser Remoaners accepted you lost and got on with it, instead of going on, and on, and on, and on. and on, and on, and f**king on about all the reasons why we should have stayed in the EU' and refusing point blank to shut the f**k up, accept it, and get on with it.
I find it quite amusing that on the football forum, people are told to f**k off and support Leeds if they slag the club off for, for instance, comparing the side now to the one under Sean O'Driscoll in the Championship. What makes it hilarious is it is often the very same people who on this forum slag the country off and talk about how great it was back in the EU.
I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told to f**k off and live in Germany?
See?
You try to have a sensible discussion based on facts and there is simply no engagement. Just bitter, unpleasant rants.
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BST, it's a great analogy and one which you have chosen to ignore, as usual.
It is actually a light-hearted analogy, but despite that, it is absolutely accurate.
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BB.
You said the trade figures were "COVID related" and gave no indication that you thought anything else was a significant factor. If you think otherwise, maybe you ought to say so?
If you'd said "COVID may have played a minor role in making these numbers so bad but it's unarguable that the primary reason is the Brexit effect on imports and exports" I wouldn't have argued with you.
IS that what you meant? If it is, I withdraw what I said as it misrepresents your views. If it isn't, then I entirely stand by what I said.
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BST, remember the other day when I said the reason I write short posts is because you will scrutinize every word if you're struggling for a proper answer, and if you can find faults, or invent them in order to change the direction of the discussion, you will?
..........I rest my case!
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BB. This doesn't need to go on any longer. Do you believe COVID is primarily responsible for the Jan trade figures? Yes or no?
One word answer required.
If you say "no", I entirely acceot that I misrepresented your views (as you accuse me of doing).
If you say "yes", then I was correct in my interpretation of what you said.
Over to you.
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I believe Covid is related to it like I've already said. Related means connected, I could have used either word. Neither of them means responsible. I'm related to my wife's sister's son, I'm his uncle, but I'm not responsible for him. (Least I don't think so!).
Regarding your question, I can't say just Yes or No. Because I don't know! However, I do believe that Covid has played a part in the trade figures to some extent, unlike NNK, who categorically stated that it hasn't played any part at all.
Do you agree with NNK, or me?
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BB
Good. We are getting somewhere. Always takes a bit of effort but here we go.
If I interpret correctly this time, when you said "The trade figures are COVID related", you weren't saying that COVID was primarily responsible for the dire trade figures because you don't know how much of an effect there has been. In that case, I accept that I misrepresented your opinion.
Does leave me wondering why on earth you would bring up the COVID issue though. Given that our exports to the rest of the world actually rose in January while the exports to the EU dropped by nearly half. Only, that suggests to me that COVID was, at most a tiny effect in the numbers.
Which was the substantive point I was trying to make before you insisted on making this an argument about words.
And by the way, go back and read again what NNK said. You're misrepresenting him.
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I brought Covid up because I believe the trade figures were covid related.
NNK said the trade figures were "bugger all to do with Covid." Where have I misrepresented him?
He misrepresented me by saying I said that leaving the EU was a good thing.
Over to you....
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
Maybe one of the problems is the disorganised rabble of a tory government that couldn't run a raffle.
''Under Britain’s arrangements with the European Union, it is supposed to send other member states an alert when citizens of another European country are convicted of crimes in a British court.
But for five years, the Guardian reported, a British computer system failed to send the details of 75,000 such convictions to the offenders’ home countries, amounting to one in three of the required alerts.
The notification system is supposed to allow local European police agencies to monitor people convicted of serious crimes abroad and to prevent offenders from escaping their convictions by moving to another European Union country''
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/europe/uk-eu-75000-criminal-convictions.html
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
''Reality Check verdict: Labour's figures are about right. Latest statistics show that police officer numbers in England and Wales have fallen by 19,000 since 2010.
Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said 20,000 police officers in England and Wales had been lost from the force since 2010''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39779288
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
Maybe one of the problems is the disorganised rabble of a tory government that couldn't run a raffle.
''Under Britain’s arrangements with the European Union, it is supposed to send other member states an alert when citizens of another European country are convicted of crimes in a British court.
But for five years, the Guardian reported, a British computer system failed to send the details of 75,000 such convictions to the offenders’ home countries, amounting to one in three of the required alerts.
The notification system is supposed to allow local European police agencies to monitor people convicted of serious crimes abroad and to prevent offenders from escaping their convictions by moving to another European Union country''
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/world/europe/uk-eu-75000-criminal-convictions.html
Oh, so it's nowt to do with Tony Blair opening the floodgates to everyone and anyone then?
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How far back would you like to take to the debate to try and prove a negative, Disraeli?
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
''Reality Check verdict: Labour's figures are about right. Latest statistics show that police officer numbers in England and Wales have fallen by 19,000 since 2010.
Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said 20,000 police officers in England and Wales had been lost from the force since 2010''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39779288
How many new police officers have been recruited since Boris became PM?
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How far back would you like to take to the debate to try and prove a negative, Disraeli?
Well, to be fair to Boris Johnson, how about going as far back as when he became PM?
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So after all that traipsing round the houses, I assume we can agree that COVID had a very small negative effect on the trade figures, and the primary cause was import/export frictions due to border controls. Which may hopefully improve over coming months. Although the OBR predicts that over the long term, the effect will be to cost us £100bn per year of economic output.
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In the normal course of events within a debate, a party puts up a debating point and another party would agree or not and put up reasons as to why they did or didn't. You put up your argument and I have put up a couple of supported reasons as to why you may be incorrect. Instead of you taking these points and examining why they are contributing factors or not you bring in another factor irrelevant to the original point you made and then you bring in a second point outside the dates of your original argument ................ over to you.
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So after all that traipsing round the houses, I assume we can agree that COVID had a very small negative effect on the trade figures, and the primary cause was import/export frictions due to border controls. Which may hopefully improve over coming months. Although the OBR predicts that over the long term, the effect will be to cost us £100bn per year of economic output.
I don't know to what extent Covid has had on exports, but then I said that before you went around the houses trying to find something that you can argue about. I do know there was some controversy over the hold-up of lorry drivers requiring tests due to the new strain of the virus. To what extent that affected trade export I don't know, but that is an example of something that might have had more than a small effect.
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When can we expect to see the UK benefit from leaving then? In all this waffle and distraction, not just in this thread but any on Brexit, I cant see anyone refer to hard facts that show we are/will be better off?
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BJW it depends on what you mean by 'better off'.
If it's to do with immigration, then the UK now has greater control over the number of immigrants it can allow in.
If it's to do with the economy, the UK is no longer expected to be better off. In fact we can now expect to be worse off.
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BJW it depends on what you mean by 'better off'.
If it's to do with immigration, then the UK now has greater control over the number of immigrants it can allow in.
If it's to do with the economy, the UK is no longer expected to be better off. In fact we can now expect to be worse off.
Except those taking the one way dinghy across the channel.
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I can't for the life of me understand why they want to cross the channel to a place with no future such as the UK. Surely they are better off staying on that side of the channel where they can be part of the great wealth and generosity of the EU?
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We "managed" before we joined the EEC. Sure, we "managed".
But we went from being comfortably ahead of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium and Holland on economic performance in the early 50s to well being them in the early 70s. And then we outpaced most of those from 1975-2010.
So yeah, we can "manage" outside the EU. But every credible economic analysis says that "managing" equates to "being significantly poorer over the long term than we would have been if we'd stayed in."
A start would be if those supporting Brexit would at least acknowledge these facts.
A start would be if you bad loser Remoaners accepted you lost and got on with it, instead of going on, and on, and on, and on. and on, and on, and f**king on about all the reasons why we should have stayed in the EU' and refusing point blank to shut the f**k up, accept it, and get on with it.
I find it quite amusing that on the football forum, people are told to f**k off and support Leeds if they slag the club off for, for instance, comparing the side now to the one under Sean O'Driscoll in the Championship. What makes it hilarious is it is often the very same people who on this forum slag the country off and talk about how great it was back in the EU.
I wonder what their reaction would be if they were told to f**k off and live in Germany?
You really ought to think before you post an analogy that destroys your own argument BB!
Before Brexit I could go and support Leeds if I wanted to. Similarly I could go and support any club in the football pyramid.
Before Brexit I could freely go and live in Germany. Similarly I could freely go and live in any of the 27 member states.
After Brexit I can still go and support Leeds if I wanted to. Similarly I can still go and support any club in the football pyramid.
But after Brexit I can no longer freely and simply go an live in Germany. Nor can I freely and simply go and live in any of the 27 member states.
And when you use the word 'Remoaner' it shows how weak your arguments are!
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
BB, as BST has already pointed out, my 'bugger all' reference was about the changes to border controls which have indeed got 'bugger all' to do with Covid! They are all down to issues relating to Brexit which should have been addressed in the Transition Period - only this pathetic government used up the whole of that time to continue to negotiate for something it was never going to get instead of using it for what it was intended, a smooth TRANSITION between what we had and what we would be getting as a result of the negotiations!
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Shame you went to all that trouble explaining why my analogy destroyed my own argument with examples that had nothing to do with the analogy!
Hey ho! You Remoaners will try owt!
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
BB, as BST has already pointed out, my 'bugger all' reference was about the changes to border controls which have indeed got 'bugger all' to do with Covid! They are all down to issues relating to Brexit which should have been addressed in the Transition Period - only this pathetic government used up the whole of that time to continue to negotiate for something it was never going to get instead of using it for what it was intended, a smooth TRANSITION between what we had and what we would be getting as a result of the negotiations!
So, you were not saying that the effect on trade export had bugger all to do with Covid. You were saying that it did. In that case, I apologise for misrepresenting your view.
Now, how about you apologising for misrepresenting me when you said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
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I can't for the life of me understand why they want to cross the channel to a place with no future such as the UK. Surely they are better off staying on that side of the channel where they can be part of the great wealth and generosity of the EU?
Or maybe their family is already here and they want to re-unite with them for the first time since leaving their own war-torn countries?
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I can't for the life of me understand why they want to cross the channel to a place with no future such as the UK. Surely they are better off staying on that side of the channel where they can be part of the great wealth and generosity of the EU?
Or maybe their family is already here and they want to re-unite with them for the first time since leaving their own war-torn countries?
Because those from countries such as Eritrea, Iran, Afghanistan,Syria and Iraq know that the uk govt cannot deport them back to their home countries. Or any other country for that matter. Once they get here, they are here to stay.
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
BB, as BST has already pointed out, my 'bugger all' reference was about the changes to border controls which have indeed got 'bugger all' to do with Covid! They are all down to issues relating to Brexit which should have been addressed in the Transition Period - only this pathetic government used up the whole of that time to continue to negotiate for something it was never going to get instead of using it for what it was intended, a smooth TRANSITION between what we had and what we would be getting as a result of the negotiations!
So, you were not saying that the effect on trade export had bugger all to do with Covid. You were saying that it did. In that case, I apologise for misrepresenting your view.
Now, how about you apologising for misrepresenting me when you said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
I think you're twisting my words BB. I said "Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid, though the right wing media would have you believe otherwise.", so yes, Covid will have had an effect on trade figures, but it would only have been a minor one compared to the effects Brexit has had on trade. I then went on to point out a number of major changes to our border control measures being put back which could ONLY be put down to Brexit.
Now if you're saying that you accept Brexit is bad for this country then yes, I will accept that I misrepresented you and will apologise. Is that what you're saying?
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Shame you went to all that trouble explaining why my analogy destroyed my own argument with examples that had nothing to do with the analogy!
Hey ho! You Remoaners will try owt!
Perhaps you should try reading your own post, then mine again.
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
BB, as BST has already pointed out, my 'bugger all' reference was about the changes to border controls which have indeed got 'bugger all' to do with Covid! They are all down to issues relating to Brexit which should have been addressed in the Transition Period - only this pathetic government used up the whole of that time to continue to negotiate for something it was never going to get instead of using it for what it was intended, a smooth TRANSITION between what we had and what we would be getting as a result of the negotiations!
So, you were not saying that the effect on trade export had bugger all to do with Covid. You were saying that it did. In that case, I apologise for misrepresenting your view.
Now, how about you apologising for misrepresenting me when you said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
I think you're twisting my words BB. I said "Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid, though the right wing media would have you believe otherwise.", so yes, Covid will have had an effect on trade figures, but it would only have been a minor one compared to the effects Brexit has had on trade. I then went on to point out a number of major changes to our border control measures being put back which could ONLY be put down to Brexit.
Now if you're saying that you accept Brexit is bad for this country then yes, I will accept that I misrepresented you and will apologise. Is that what you're saying?
Brexit might be bad for this country, then again it might be good. It might turn out bad in some ways but good in others. I don't think it is the right time to accurately predict or assess what the future will bring especially during a pandemic.
Now, I will ask you again. Will you apologise for saying I said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
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No he didn't BB.
He he said the figures were "largely due to Brexit, not COVID" which is undeniably correct. He then gave a list of Brexit-related border/import-export restrictions and said "bugger all to do with Brexit". And they ARE bugger all to do with Brexit.
He said Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid. Then he gave his reasons in a quote that blamed border checks and summarised it by saying it was bugger all to do with Brexit.
That's how I interpreted it, and if he tells me he didn't mean that then I will withdraw it, although it is much easier to misinterpret that than it is his claim that I said leaving the EU was a good thing. That is blatant misrepresentation.
BB, as BST has already pointed out, my 'bugger all' reference was about the changes to border controls which have indeed got 'bugger all' to do with Covid! They are all down to issues relating to Brexit which should have been addressed in the Transition Period - only this pathetic government used up the whole of that time to continue to negotiate for something it was never going to get instead of using it for what it was intended, a smooth TRANSITION between what we had and what we would be getting as a result of the negotiations!
So, you were not saying that the effect on trade export had bugger all to do with Covid. You were saying that it did. In that case, I apologise for misrepresenting your view.
Now, how about you apologising for misrepresenting me when you said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
I think you're twisting my words BB. I said "Trade figures are largely down to Brexit and not Covid, though the right wing media would have you believe otherwise.", so yes, Covid will have had an effect on trade figures, but it would only have been a minor one compared to the effects Brexit has had on trade. I then went on to point out a number of major changes to our border control measures being put back which could ONLY be put down to Brexit.
Now if you're saying that you accept Brexit is bad for this country then yes, I will accept that I misrepresented you and will apologise. Is that what you're saying?
Brexit might be bad for this country, then again it might be good. It might turn out bad in some ways but good in others. I don't think it is the right time to accurately predict or assess what the future will bring especially during a pandemic.
Now, I will ask you again. Will you apologise for saying I said that l think what is happening is a good thing for this country?
Thank you for a more considered post BB, I withdraw my comment about you thinking Brexit is good for the country and apologise accordingly. It is also certainly true that Covid isn't helping at all.
Time will tell if it turns out to be good in any way, shape or form; and I genuinely hope that it will - though all the signs would indicate otherwise. But just as I hope people will post any positives as they occur, people should also respect the right of others to point out the negatives as they too occur - and to date there's been an awful lot of them.
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i reluctantly voted leave maybe 51/49% at the time. I had a postal vote so voted in advance and was in Rhodes when the vote was revealed.
I didn't want a federal Europe which is what I felt we were headed for.
I did expected an adult negotiated exit which would represent all or most voters if it went my way.
I ŵould be happy if anyone can tell me how me views have been fairly represented. The leave at any costs campaign have totally misrepresented my views. I am happy for anybody from either side to tell me where my views have been taken into consideration.
I would also rather have concrete answers or views rather than smart replies. Excuse the brevity but I am seriously p***** off today so don't want to waste any time.
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Idler.
You are precisely the example I've had in mind when I said the 2016 vote was flawed. "Leave" wasn't a defined thing. It encompassed a huge range of possible outcomes, of which leaving the CU and SM was one of the more extreme. I say to this day that if the choice had been between "Remain" and "Leave the SM and CU", the former would have won by 20%.
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I had used my postal vote when I talked to my 18 year old grandson who bave me a far better reason to remain than either Cameron or Obama. I can't remember what Bojo said at that time. I also felt pride and a sense of belonging when England played France after the Charlie Ebden outrage.
There again what do I know?
One thing for sure is that nobody reflected my views. Anybody who has been divorced knows that however painful it is closure is achieved by agreement and discussion. Not one top level instigator on the leave side has ever come up with a significant benefit of leaving and supplied proof. I am OK, money in the bank, no debt, no mortgage and money invested.
Apart from a bequest in my will how does that beenefit my grandchildren?
Long term they will probably be worse off.
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Idler.
It is far worse than them not being able to point to benefits.
I can point you to a dozen and more prominent Leave politicians who assured you (in ways ranging from Farage's weasel words to Hannan's categorical assurance) that leaving the SM wasn't what you were voting for.
I can point you to a dozen who insisted that predictions of problems in Northern Ireland were Project Fear.
Much as some folk want the line to be "You lost. Belt up and accept it," the point is that democracy dies away if politicians are allowed to tell what they know are lies at the time, and no-one cares afterwards.
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The vote and both campaigns should never have taken place, especially not the way they did. Both sides should take responsibility for the outcome.
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I had used my postal vote when I talked to my 18 year old grandson who bave me a far better reason to remain than either Cameron or Obama. I can't remember what Bojo said at that time. I also felt pride and a sense of belonging when England played France after the Charlie Ebden outrage.
There again what do I know?
One thing for sure is that nobody reflected my views. Anybody who has been divorced knows that however painful it is closure is achieved by agreement and discussion. Not one top level instigator on the leave side has ever come up with a significant benefit of leaving and supplied proof. I am OK, money in the bank, no debt, no mortgage and money invested.
Apart from a bequest in my will how does that beenefit my grandchildren?
Long term they will probably be worse off.
I'd be intersted in sensible suggestions/discussions on bequests to organisations that further democracy as I am apprehensive about what sort of future awaits the next generations. I support Transparency International and some news organisations.
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Belton
1) The vote happened for one reason and one reason only. To finish the generation-long civil war on the Right of British politics.
2) As for this bothsidesism take, I've asked you before for examples of lies from the Remain side and never had any response other than an article full of unsubstantiated opinions.
3) But ok, let's assume both sides lied. How many of the prominent Remain side from 2016 are still in front line politics? Whereas the people who lied to you knowingly and consistently from the Leave side now run the country. Looks like bothsidesism only goes so far.
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Billy. I said both sides are responsible for the outcome.
Stop misrepresenting me.
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Belton.
You have previously said that both sides lied. You haven't retracted that to my knowledge so I fail to see how I am misrepresenting your views.
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Billy. You have responded to a point of mine about responsibility for the result by, yet again, drudging up past, irrelevant discussion. If you wanted to continue that discussion instead of commenting on this one, then you could have at least made that clear.
Some advice: try to comment on the comments that a poster makes, rather than your pre conceived ideas about what you think the poster is saying.
I bet this all sounds familiar doesn’t it?
If you want to discuss how I think both sides lied (again) then we can. But right now, just to be clear, my point was that both sides are responsible for the outcome.
Do you want to discuss that?
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I responded to a post about how both sides acted in the referendum campaign by commenting on the widely held belief (your belief in your own words, not an idea that I have made up) that both sides lied. You made that point vehemently before and I assume that at least part of your "both sides are responsible" comment is based on your passionately held belief that both sides were responsible for the lies that besmirched the campaign.
My take is that one side's campaign was grounded in egregious lies, dishonesty and misinformation. The other side's wasn't, but because of that scenario, the Remain side were always at a huge disadvantage.
The Remain side's argument was "Yes the EU is flawed but on balance we are better off in it." That is an argument based broadly on truth, but it is very weak against a "We can take back control and there are no downsides and anyone who says there are is peddling Project Fear" approach.
If the Remain side had wanted a campaign based in a sober assessment of pros and cons, they could have campaigned in that way. But they didn't. They based their campaign on egregious lies (80 million Turks are about the get the right to move to the UK) misinformation (£350m/week) and and a message that there were no.plans for the sort of Brexit we ended up with.
If you can give equally egregious examples of the Remain side knowingly misleading the electorate, then please do.
Saying "both sides are to blame" in the context of what how the Leave campaign was run is akin to saying both sides are to blame for the result when someone gets assaulted because the victim didn't knock the aggressor out.
But I'll accept your take. And it still leaves open my final point earlier. If both sides were to blame, clearly one set of politicians paid a hefty price, while the other set now runs the country. One side got rid of their leaders. The other side empowered them.
By the way, we didn't previously "discuss" your belief that both sides lied in any meaningful sense of the word. You claimed they did. I asked for evidence. You posted an article shot through with errors and opinion and when I pointed some of those out you had a rant at me for not accepting evidence.
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Billy. I fear you protest too much.
Again, I said both sides were responsible for the outcome. If you want to talk about that, then please do.
Some more advice: give yourself a bit more time away from this forum. Perhaps tell yourself not to post after 11pm. You were obviously very tired when you wrote your last rant. I know you didn’t mean to write that Remain based their campaign on egregious lies, but a casual forum member might be a bit confused.
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
''Reality Check verdict: Labour's figures are about right. Latest statistics show that police officer numbers in England and Wales have fallen by 19,000 since 2010.
Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said 20,000 police officers in England and Wales had been lost from the force since 2010''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39779288
Police numbers from 2010-2020, 171,000 to 153,000 got any spare coppers guv'
Total police officer strength in the United Kingdom increased year on year
between 2003, when there were 155,000 officers, and 2010, when there
were just over 171,600. Since this peak, the number of police officers fell
each year up until 2018. Numbers have since recovered slightly and, at
31 March 2020, there were roughly 153,000 police officers operating
within the United Kingdom. This was a reduction of 1.2% compared to
2003 and of 10.6% from 2010.
file:///C:/Users/pauln/Downloads/SN00634.pdf
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more-than-4000-extra-police-officers-to-fight-crime-as-recruitment-continues
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Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
''Reality Check verdict: Labour's figures are about right. Latest statistics show that police officer numbers in England and Wales have fallen by 19,000 since 2010.
Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott said 20,000 police officers in England and Wales had been lost from the force since 2010''
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39779288
As usual bb- you haven't addressed my concerns which if you read the comment where I suggested that the decline in police numbers (during the period coinciding with tory rule) would have played a part in more criminals on the streets.
Your recent post claiming 4000 police hired, was that before or after the vote? which is the point in hand.
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So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?
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Thanks for pointing out my slip Belton.
As for the both sides argument, if you look at my post you'll see a reasoned argument for why I disagree. Odd that you consider that to be a rant, but there you go.
Of course, there is an argument that both sides are to blame for any outcome. If a kid is crossing the road and someone comes round the corner at 70mph and kills them, there's an argument that the kid is to blame for being there. But that's not really how sensible discussion goes is it? We look at degrees of blame.
So in this case, of course both sides were "to blame" for the referendum outcome. Beyond that statement of the meaningless, I don't know where you think the balance is. I gave you my reasoned opinion and you ignored it.
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What's your opinion of the EU's attitude and treatment of the UK since January Billy?
Do you think they are playing the game? and when we stop the money tree abruptly and cost them £20 Billion do you think they will be happy?
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So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?
Please point out where I wrote anyyhing of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?
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Phew. We got there eventually, Billy.
Now you’ve finally addressed my point, it seems we agree that both sides are responsible for the outcome. Though why you felt the need to respond in any way to something you consider meaningless, is pointless.
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So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?
Please point out where I wrote anyyhing of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?
Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
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Phew. We got there eventually, Billy.
Now you’ve finally addressed my point, it seems we agree that both sides are responsible for the outcome. Though why you felt the need to respond in any way to something you consider meaningless, is pointless.
All those words and no information content.
I guess Otto, Daimler and Diesel are partly to blame for every road fatality because they invented petrol and diesel engines. Odd that no-one ever used that defence in court when they run someone down.
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The EU referendum may well have become an attempt to settle an argument that had been raging in the tory party for a generation but that's not why it was instigated and the outcome was very clearly expected to be and meant to be a vote to remain. A remain vote to settle the question once and for all.
That's why the question of how the UK might leave was never properly defined as actually leaving was politically unthinkable. Leaving the answer unknown and undefined was meant to make the option much less credible. Cameron gambled the lot on the expected remain vote and lost and so resigned, despite saying he would not.
In truth Cameron didn't really want to hold an EU referendum at all. It was forced on him by the rise and rise of UKIP. Oh how the tory press congratulated him on 'shooting the UKIP fox.' when a referendum was promised.
I would say then that the reality is there was a grass roots public demand for a referendum and that was facilitated by the existence of an anti-EU party. UKIP.
Without UKIP the tories would never, ever have contemplated it because big business and their backers were very happy with the UK being in the EU.
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Personally I think the one big untruth of the remain side was that the EU was merely a group of friendly nations co-operation in a friendly club.
The reality is the EU is a longterm nation building project. Ken Clarke admits as much and was looking forward to the day when Westminster became little more than a county council. That was the truth remain didn't want to admit and the British government was not able to admit for decades.
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Phew. We got there eventually, Billy.
Now you’ve finally addressed my point, it seems we agree that both sides are responsible for the outcome. Though why you felt the need to respond in any way to something you consider meaningless, is pointless.
All those words and no information content.
I guess Otto, Daimler and Diesel are partly to blame for every road fatality because they invented petrol and diesel engines. Odd that no-one ever used that defence in court when they run someone down.
And still you try to pick a fight over something you profess not to care for.
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Remain should never have lost. They were arrogant and dismissive of Leave (and in turn of many of the people of the UK), until it was too late.
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Remain should never have lost. They were arrogant and dismissive of Leave (and in turn of many of the people of the UK), until it was too late.
Maybe not but at some point, someway the EU required the consent of the people of the UK. It had been put off after dodgy outcomes of votes in other EU nations on the issue. Gordon Brown could not just sign us up to it all away from the public gaze.
Frankly it was always going to be tricky selling it to the public and they knew it, the politicians had been putting off a vote for a longtime.
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Belton , they were thick as well Farage ran rings around them, and being seen as arrogant and next door to committing treason by constantly taking the route over to Brussels to court and suck up to the same EU leaders who had blanked Cameron quite openly and being interviewed on Waterloo Platforms of the Eurostar trains day after day, and not realising what it looked like to the man in the street who were hoping for some recompense for our continual putting in money for other countries to reap the benefit.
Educated idiots.
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Remain should never have lost. They were arrogant and dismissive of Leave (and in turn of many of the people of the UK), until it was too late.
And there's the nub. How are you supposed to have a sensible discussion with people shose entire campaign was based on misinformation, hiding of real intentions and straight up lying?
If you treat them as a serious set of proposals to be debated seriously, you are screwed because you've lost the basis of an evidence-based discussion and you are playing on the liars home turf.
If you call them out as liars you are accused of being arrogant and dismissive of them and anyone who believes the lies.
The Remain side mostly took the latter approach and certainly had an air of incredulity that they were even having to deal with the lies, they were so obvious and so egregious. That had simply never happened before in UK politics and yes, I can well see that someone telling voters they are being lied to may well come across as arrogant and dismissive. We are in a different world now of course and rejection of objective truth is pretty well established in certain wings of politics, whether it's Trump's 25,000 documented falsehoods or Johnson insisting in the 2019 election campaign that the WA he had signed which called for border checks in the Irish Sea didn't mean there wold be border checks in the Irish Sea.
The 2016 campaign was the start of that. As I said last night, it made for an impossible scenario. The Leave side consistently mislead the public into thinking that we could have all the benefits of being in the EU while "taking back control". That was absolute horseshit, but it allowed Leave to paint a glorious picture of the future and many, many people believed it, assisted by the tsunami of social media disinformation that Cummings directed at people who had been profiled as being susceptible to that.
Remain on the other hand could not in good faith campaign on any ticket other than "The EU is not perfect but it is better than the problems we'll have outside it." That is a dull, flat, grey campaign theme, but it is a truthful one. Clearly it wasn't enough.
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Remember that, in political terms, Remain v Leave was Tory on Tory! No one else called for a referendum.
Cameron/Osborne in one corner vs Johnson/Gove in the other. Everyone else was merely a pundit. Even Johnson and Gove ignored Farage in the run up to the vote. Labour's involvement was incidental because of Corbyn's dithering and lack of enthusiasm for the whole thing.
So when people say that both sides were to blame I can see what they mean because this was a game where both sides came from within one political party.
But the bigger point surely has to be this: It is the Conservative Party, and the Conservative Party alone, that has brought us to this point.
BB when you talk about winners and losers, it was never going to be you or I. It was only ever about the guy in Number 10!
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Remember that, in political terms, Remain v Leave was Tory on Tory! No one else called for a referendum.
But the bigger point surely has to be this: It is the Conservative Party, and the Conservative Party alone, that has brought us to this point.
BB when you talk about winners and losers, it was never going to be you or I. It was only ever about the guy in Number 10!
I would again make the point, that the Tory government didn't actually want a referendum at all.
When a referendum was called, the sole purpose was to secure the UK firmly within the EU.
The demand for a referendum came from outside the Tory party and in the end, they could not resist that demand. It was something a large part of the public wanted and it was a question the EU needed to have resolved.
Calling a referendum then was entirely legitimate. The way the whole thing was handled though, left a lot to be desired.
And the guy in no10?
He had to fall on his sword. His political career in tatters.
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So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?
Please point out where I wrote anyyhing of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?
Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK.
And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it.
Why does your argument resemble a colander bb ................. Australia was claimed under the false pretext of terra nullius therefore all those that came from the British Isles were foreigners/invaders, government officials, soldiers, british convicts all were one and the same.
''Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK''
So ...... because you and others that subscribe to the tory handmaiden's media and believe the same vote leavers ignored the massive lies printed about the NHS and Turkish immigration? and voted out mainly because of foreign criminals coming to Britiain yet you haven't got any proof to support whether these people were criminals before they arrived or whether they were actually born in the UK or where the hell they are supposed to be from?
A drink for anyone that can proove they have seen belton and bb in the same room :)
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BB to Sydney: "Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK."
Sydney to BB: "And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it."
BB to Sydney: "So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?"
Sydney to BB: "Please point out where I wrote anything of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?"
:facepalm:
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The remain leadership, Farage's bitch's.
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RD, the Conservative Government at the time may not have wanted a referendum, but the offer to provide one was theirs alone; a response to the threat that UKIP posed to many Conservative seats.
None of the other major political parties proposed a referendum (UKIP may have been vocal but it wasn't a major political party). Nor was there an overwhelming public clamour for a referendum in Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales or any of the major cities in England.
It was, in short, a device dreamt up by the Conservative Party to try and shore up their vote in the 2015 election.
The rest, as they say, is history.
And the only real winner in all of this is the current incumbent of no 10.
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H,
It may have been a 'device' to shore up the Tory vote but that's just democracy in action.
The Issue of the EU had risen from nowhere to be the key issue in elections. What was the Tory party supposed to do? Ignore it and accept defeat at a future general election? They had to respond.
What's more the 'device' was supposed to reiterate the UK commitment to the EU. It definitely wasn't designed as a mechanism to bring about Brexit.
In this case, our flawed democratic system was forcing an issue to be addressed. The system was actually working.
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The EU leadership are making political decisions on the Astra vaccine that will cost lives trying to deflect criticism away from their poor management of the situation.
The incidence of forming a blood clot is much higher taking the Pill yet they stop the vaccinations.
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RD.
I disagree on the purpose of the referendum. It was promised in 2013 for one reason alone. Cameron was worried about losing the 2015 election because UKIP was attracting Tory voters. He never actually expected to have to call it after 2015 because he expected to lose 2015 or at best be in Coalition with the LDs again who would block it. Then when he DID have to call it, Johnson chose to support Leave which he never believed in. Johnson never expected to win but he saw it as a path to No10 by being the darling of the massively Europhobic Tory membership.
The whole thing was about politics and personal ambition on the Right. What was best for the country was never on the agenda.
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Im not disputing Cameron had to offer a referendum to win back UKIP supporters but again, isn't that just democracy in action?
The political calculations may not have worked out as expected...
But t would have been very strange for the Tory party to risk defeat at a general election in order to shield the EU from British democratic opinion.
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BB to Sydney: "Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK."
Sydney to BB: "And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it."
BB to Sydney: "So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?"
Sydney to BB: "Please point out where I wrote anything of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?"
:facepalm:
LoL.
He will have to try to put that one down.
Cant wait.
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I see the gang is out playing tonight
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Brexit was a project designed by foreign billionaires to use British millonaires to turn the UK into a deregulated tax haven and money laundering centre, whilst weakening the EU at the same time.
They did this by persuading the British public that the problems casued by the Tories austerity policy were the fault of the EU.
It was siezed on by the British right as an opportunity to remake the country in their world view - which they have done successfully by siezing control of the Tory Party and booting out moral objectors such as Winston Churchill's grandson and Margaret Thatcher's private secretary and speechwriter.
Whatever you think you voted for - that's what you got and gave to the rest of us.
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I see the gang is out playing tonight
Disciples too.
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I see the gang is out playing tonight
You get down yer own end, Filo.
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Hang on Wilts,
There were millionaires on both sides of the argument, and the likes of Goldman were pumping cash into the remain campaign.
Is the vampire squid on the side of the little guy now?
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I see my little comment brought out a couple of nicely fitting hat wearers
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I see my little comment brought out a couple of nicely fitting hat wearers
So you are admitting to being a WUM now.
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I thought I’d get a few posts in while Bentley’s left the room.
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Filo taking over until Sydney gets out of his bed maybe.
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Im not disputing Cameron had to offer a referendum to win back UKIP supporters but again, isn't that just democracy in action?
The political calculations may not have worked out as expected...
But t would have been very strange for the Tory party to risk defeat at a general election in order to shield the EU from British democratic opinion.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one RD.
I can't accept that the Conservatives under Cameron proposed a referendum out of altruistic motives. It was a ploy to neuter the threat of UKIP, pure and simple.
So, more an example of cynical politics to my mind, rather than democracy in action. You could argue that, had it been more about democracy, then the Conservatives would have been way more specific about the referendum question they would pose.
The fact that it all backfired hugely for Cameron and Osborne might have more to do with divine retribution than democracy!
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H,
The Tory party was forced to offer a referendum to its supporters.
As BST points out they didn't expect to have to honour the promise.
Then, when they were forced to go through with it, they did all they could to win it. The prize would have lanced the boil of EU scepticism within Tory ranks for good.
There is no way the Tories were plotting a Brexit. If anything it was an opportunity to silence 'the bas**rds' for good.
Ultimately why were the Tory party expected to shield the EU from British public opinion? Indeed all the parties have toyed with offering referendums but only when they have been confident of an EU endorsement.
I just don't understand the outrage that the public was actually given a referendum when there was clearly a large body of opinion asking for it.
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Hang on Wilts,
There were millionaires on both sides of the argument, and the likes of Goldman were pumping cash into the remain campaign.
Is the vampire squid on the side of the little guy now?
That's interestig RD - you know who funded the Remain campaign.
Who funded Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage?
https://bakerstreetherald.com/
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RD.
No way in a million years would a Remain vote have lanced any boil.
1) Farage was already arguing that the vote was invalid because...reasons and there's no way the UKIP threat was going away if Remain had won.
2) You are forgetting that the Tory membership is intensely Eurosceptic, and Johnson had nailed his colours to that mast. No way was Johnson going away. He had/has too much ambition. He'd have kept on playing to the membership gallery with the same degree of mendacity as he did a generation ago when he was making up stories about bent bananas and Italian condoms.
You're giving Cameron way too much credit for thinking strategically. He never did. He was a political tactician who did what he needed to do to win (as with Austerity which I don't believe for a minute he ever had any strategic belief in, or if he did, the find at Oxford who gave him a First in PPE want firing). He played tactics with the Referendum as a trick to avoid losing in 2015. Then it came back and blew up in his face.
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Remember what Farage said 6 days before the vote, referring to a narrow Remain win.
"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."
In other circumstances, that would be worth the odd titter.
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BB to Sydney: "Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK."
Sydney to BB: "And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it."
BB to Sydney: "So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?"
Sydney to BB: "Please point out where I wrote anything of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?"
:facepalm:
LoL.
He will have to try to put that one down.
Cant wait.
great post hound
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BB to Sydney: "Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK."
Sydney to BB: "And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it."
BB to Sydney: "So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?"
Sydney to BB: "Please point out where I wrote anything of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?"
:facepalm:
LoL.
He will have to try to put that one down.
Cant wait.
great post hound
Thank you for the kind words.
Nice to be appreciated. :)
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even when you have your eyes closed we can still see you hound :lol:
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Did you audition for the Riddler role in Batman.
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BST
Should Cameron have ignore his intensely Eurosceptic membership, not offered a referendum and accepted defeat in the election in order to satisfy the assumption that Britain's membership of the EU should never be questioned?
I don't think he could. He had to offer a referendum. It's what his membership wanted and it's what the polls were telling him he had to do.
And he did it half expecting he would never have to honour that promise.
And that's how FPTP democracy works. It's a two horse race and he had to make sure he could get enough of his half of the electorate onside. It's something the left are incapable of doing, the vote on that side is completely fragmented and they hardly ever win.
In all honesty I'm not disagreeing with either you or Big H. I just don't see his decision as being particularly underhand. He was just responding to a democratic demand.
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Hang on Wilts,
There were millionaires on both sides of the argument, and the likes of Goldman were pumping cash into the remain campaign.
Is the vampire squid on the side of the little guy now?
That's interestig RD - you know who funded the Remain campaign.
Who funded Aaron Banks and Nigel Farage?
https://bakerstreetherald.com/
Thanks for this link Wilts, this is partly why I think those that can should invest part of their 'estate' to ongoing democracy projects.
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BB to Sydney: "Sydney, maybe a big part of the reason the UK voted out was that it was becoming like Australia used to be, a penal colony for foreign criminals, the difference being that foreign criminals volunteered to come to the UK."
Sydney to BB: "And maybe the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010 to catch criminals played a big part in it."
BB to Sydney: "So you are saying a big part of the reason why foreign criminals came to the UK was because of the fact that there were/are 19,000 less police since 2010?"
Sydney to BB: "Please point out where I wrote anything of the sort bb, getting a bit desperate?"
:facepalm:
I don't see anywhere where you have proven your case that ''a big part of the reason people voted out was that it was becoming like Australia''
If the colander fits? baby shark do do di do ..............
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Did you audition for the Riddler role in Batman.
Do you mean because he uses riddles like the Riddler with his mystifying, misleading, puzzling conundrums that are difficult to understand?
I see where you're coming from but I prefer him as Skippy because he skips giving answers when he's in a corner.
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Did you audition for the Riddler role in Batman.
Do you mean because he uses riddles like the Riddler with his mystifying, misleading, puzzling conundrums that are difficult to understand?
I see where you're coming from but I prefer him as Skippy because he skips giving answers when he's in a corner.
Yeah I get that BB.
Perhaps we could put the two together, Ridskip might be appropriate.
The skip is taken away because it is full of rubbish.
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He does provide a good insight into the mind of a typical Guardian reader though!
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what's new flurry?
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Guardian readers should become a protected species there are so few of them.
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Guardian readers should become a protected species there are so few of them.
Yep, most of the ill informed read the likes of the Sun.
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Guardian readers should become a protected species there are so few of them.
Yep, most of the ill informed read the likes of the Sun.
Or listen to Talk Radio
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Guardian V TLOS
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I thought it was RT radio?
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Guardian readers should become a protected species there are so few of them.
I'd hazard a guess The Guardian has more readers now than it ever has because it's free online.
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Read being the most operative word, not so many cartoons I guess.
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Read being the most operative word, not so many cartoons I guess.
I’m not sure how tongue in cheek this is meant to be, Sydney, but dismissing and ridiculing people because they don’t read highbrow newspapers or listen to the ‘right’ radio stations is part of the reason this country isn’t what you want it to be.
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The Guardian is not highbrow, far from it, it's centre left and therefore appeals to those of the centre left and others that may want to read accurate well researched articles and from journalists that work by a code of ethics.
I would have thought that highbrow newspapers like the tele and the express and others would be the highbrow ones belton after all they appeal to the middle and upper middle professional classes.
And if you search back through the comments our resident mouthpiece for all things tory quoted from RT reasonably regularly which is kind of wierd as putin controls all russian media and they one of the uk's biggest threats.
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The Express is highbrow but The Guardian isn't?. .. Riiiiight.
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The Guardian is not highbrow because it appeals to the centre left?
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Not a popular suggestion was it.
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Must be doing well if they have to give it away. A paper to suit your reputation of cheap shots Syd.
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RT the radio kid, you must be concerned at going back to school aye?
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Just a hook needed, no bait required
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there's a pattern to your form selby, team loses ............. go to off topic act like a baby
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Getting to be a regular, your easy though.
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The EU, Norway, And the UK signed a fishing catch agreement for 2021 yesterday which agreed a catch worth £184 million to UK fishermen and gave them a larger catch % on certain species in the North sea and is designed to maintain fish stocks.
The agreement will be agreed yearly.
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Does this put UK fishers in a better position than last year selby?
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According to the report yes with higher % of catching certain popular species and the sustainability of such as Cod stocks, and higher income in money terms.
Syd it is to everybody's benefit for sensible agreement, The EU need to accept it or they will shove us into being a very problematic state just off shore, especially the financial industry in London.
If things carry on as they are I can see the government giving them much more free reign.
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sustainability of fish stocks appear to be the main gain from this agreement, can't quite follow your last bit selby
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Just a hook needed, no bait required
You remind me of the small boy sat on a railway bridge with a fishing rod. A passer-by, taking pity on the child who obviously had problems and, to humour him, asked "How many have you caught then lad?".
The boy replied "You're the third!".
The passer-by smiled, knowingly, and walked away thinking to himself 'There are some people you just can't help'.
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
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The EU, Norway, And the UK signed a fishing catch agreement for 2021 yesterday which agreed a catch worth £184 million to UK fishermen and gave them a larger catch % on certain species in the North sea and is designed to maintain fish stocks.
The agreement will be agreed yearly.
Where do you think the extra fish will be sold Selby?
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Fish shops
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Fish shops
Nothing less than I expected! You never disappoint, we are struggling to sell what we catch now heaven knows what will happen when there is even more to sell
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The EU, Norway, And the UK signed a fishing catch agreement for 2021 yesterday which agreed a catch worth £184 million to UK fishermen and gave them a larger catch % on certain species in the North sea and is designed to maintain fish stocks.
The agreement will be agreed yearly.
Where do you think the extra fish will be sold Selby?
Is there a larger catch or will it be balanced out by the reduction in other species? I think this is a good idea for sustainability but I haven't read that UK fishers will be better off overall.
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
Here's a recipe for your cabbage Selby, genuinely.
Remove the outer leaves and stork. Finely shred the cabbage and boil until almost cooked then drain and set aside. Finely dice an onion and gently fry in a small amount of olive oil until golden brown with a teaspoon full of sugar. Turn up the heat and add the cabbage. Fry, stirring regularly for two to three minutes then add a little salt and grate half a nutmeg over the cabbage/onion mix, stir and put in a serving dish. Add a knob of butter on top and serve. Works well with roast pork, roast potatoes and carrots.
Trust me, the best way to serve cabbage ever. Enjoy. :)
p.s. This also works exceedingly well with spinach, though you don't boil the spinach, just fry with the onions after they are cooked. Great with a nice steak served with chips and pepper sauce.
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Your taste in food far exceeds your taste in politics, NNK. I could almost accept an invitation for a meal, providing I could retire once the pleasantries were finished.
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
Here's a recipe for your cabbage Selby, genuinely.
Remove the outer leaves and stork. Finely shred the cabbage and boil until almost cooked then drain and set aside. Finely dice an onion and gently fry in a small amount of olive oil until golden brown with a teaspoon full of sugar. Turn up the heat and add the cabbage. Fry, stirring regularly for two to three minutes then add a little salt and grate half a nutmeg over the cabbage/onion mix, stir and put in a serving dish. Add a knob of butter on top and serve. Works well with roast pork, roast potatoes and carrots.
Trust me, the best way to serve cabbage ever. Enjoy. :)
p.s. This also works exceedingly well with spinach, though you don't boil the spinach, just fry with the onions after they are cooked. Great with a nice steak served with chips and pepper sauce.
The only time I ever eat spinach, NNK, is when I want to beat Bluto up.
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The only time I ever eat spinach, NNK, is when I want to beat Bluto up.
Is Bluto the Tory foe of Popeye....?
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Ker ker ker ker ker ker ker
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
Here's a recipe for your cabbage Selby, genuinely.
Remove the outer leaves and stork. Finely shred the cabbage and boil until almost cooked then drain and set aside. Finely dice an onion and gently fry in a small amount of olive oil until golden brown with a teaspoon full of sugar. Turn up the heat and add the cabbage. Fry, stirring regularly for two to three minutes then add a little salt and grate half a nutmeg over the cabbage/onion mix, stir and put in a serving dish. Add a knob of butter on top and serve. Works well with roast pork, roast potatoes and carrots.
Trust me, the best way to serve cabbage ever. Enjoy. :)
p.s. This also works exceedingly well with spinach, though you don't boil the spinach, just fry with the onions after they are cooked. Great with a nice steak served with chips and pepper sauce.
I think you would be totally shocked to find a stork amongst the leaves of your cabbage NNK.
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Your taste in food far exceeds your taste in politics, NNK. I could almost accept an invitation for a meal, providing I could retire once the pleasantries were finished.
Thank you for the complement BB, especially as my taste in politics is considered by others to be very good indeed. ;)
And I'd be more than happy to discuss politics with you over a pint any time, (politics should never be discussed over a meal - best way to ruin good food!).
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
Here's a recipe for your cabbage Selby, genuinely.
Remove the outer leaves and stork. Finely shred the cabbage and boil until almost cooked then drain and set aside. Finely dice an onion and gently fry in a small amount of olive oil until golden brown with a teaspoon full of sugar. Turn up the heat and add the cabbage. Fry, stirring regularly for two to three minutes then add a little salt and grate half a nutmeg over the cabbage/onion mix, stir and put in a serving dish. Add a knob of butter on top and serve. Works well with roast pork, roast potatoes and carrots.
Trust me, the best way to serve cabbage ever. Enjoy. :)
p.s. This also works exceedingly well with spinach, though you don't boil the spinach, just fry with the onions after they are cooked. Great with a nice steak served with chips and pepper sauce.
The only time I ever eat spinach, NNK, is when I want to beat Bluto up.
You should try it more often Steve, it's very good for you - especially the way I recommend it be cooked, will give you even bigger muscles. :P
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You don't remind me of much at all Kato although ar lass did say can I pick a cabbage up on my way home.
Here's a recipe for your cabbage Selby, genuinely.
Remove the outer leaves and stork. Finely shred the cabbage and boil until almost cooked then drain and set aside. Finely dice an onion and gently fry in a small amount of olive oil until golden brown with a teaspoon full of sugar. Turn up the heat and add the cabbage. Fry, stirring regularly for two to three minutes then add a little salt and grate half a nutmeg over the cabbage/onion mix, stir and put in a serving dish. Add a knob of butter on top and serve. Works well with roast pork, roast potatoes and carrots.
Trust me, the best way to serve cabbage ever. Enjoy. :)
p.s. This also works exceedingly well with spinach, though you don't boil the spinach, just fry with the onions after they are cooked. Great with a nice steak served with chips and pepper sauce.
I think you would be totally shocked to find a stork amongst the leaves of your cabbage NNK.
That, of course, would be a 'flight of fancy' Hound :laugh:
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Just putting it out there - don't want a 'telling off' from the OT hierarchy....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56496888
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The EU's stance on taking over private bio companies exports and dictating to them who and when they do legitimate business could be their biggest mistake yet as far as attracting business to the EU is concerned in the future.
They are looking what they are, a nasty piece of work we are well out of who are self advertising their own faults to the world.
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Just putting it out there - don't want a 'telling off' from the OT hierarchy....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56496888
Did being in the EU stop them investing MM?
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The whole world except Guardian and The Independent readers are starting to see just what the EU is morphing into.
The Spanish must be getting a little desperate for the British to visit Benidorm opening it up for them while at the same time banning inter state / department travel so at the same time banning someone from Madrid going there.
Is it a trap to start our third lock down, a cunning plan perhaps, sod the San Miguel for a couple of years John Smiths for ever.
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Just putting it out there - don't want a 'telling off' from the OT hierarchy....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56496888
Did being in the EU stop them investing MM?
I doubt it Syd...... although I don't know if the path would have been so easy.
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The whole world except Guardian and The Independent readers are starting to see just what the EU is morphing into.
The Spanish must be getting a little desperate for the British to visit Benidorm opening it up for them while at the same time banning inter state / department travel so at the same time banning someone from Madrid going there.
Is it a trap to start our third lock down, a cunning plan perhaps, sod the San Miguel for a couple of years John Smiths for ever.
I think you're right Selby - many EU resorts will be desperate for Brits to return.... and in some areas I expect their entire societal substructure depends on it.
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Just putting it out there - don't want a 'telling off' from the OT hierarchy....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56496888
Did being in the EU stop them investing MM?
In case you missed it ,,,,,,, from the article
''Khaldoon Khalifa Al Mubarak, group chief executive of Mubadala, said: "Mubadala is already a long-term investor in UK innovation and growth, and our new partnership now provides a platform to allocate stable capital to priority sectors as part of a future-focused investment relationship."
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The whole world except Guardian and The Independent readers are starting to see just what the EU is morphing into.
The Spanish must be getting a little desperate for the British to visit Benidorm opening it up for them while at the same time banning inter state / department travel so at the same time banning someone from Madrid going there.
Is it a trap to start our third lock down, a cunning plan perhaps, sod the San Miguel for a couple of years John Smiths for ever.
There are many fantastic places to see and visit within the British Isles without risking bring further strains of covid into the country and at the same supporting British businesses. Win,win. Leave the sunbeds for the Germans for a couple of years.
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On the morning of the Brexit result, I remember thinking that this was the worst self inflicted wound any country had ever committed.
Nothing since has made me change my mind.
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Foxbat, on that morning I was actually very surprised that the vote had gone in favour of leave.
The main reason for my surprise was that people I worked with and people connected with my work didn’t really have much in the way of reasons to leave apart from controlling immigration.
However, it is done now and we have to crack on with making things work.
I don’t get the constant need that some people have to moan about it.
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Wounds heal. And very often tell a story of resilience and overcoming adversity that eventually makes someone, or something, better and stronger than it was before
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Yep, agreed Belton.
We only have the here and now and there is no point in banging on about what might have been if the vote had gone the other way.
People posting links to this that and the other are just wasting their time.
It won’t change anything.
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Hound.
My take? If one simply shrugs one's shoulders at the most untruthful and deliberately deceitful political campaign in our lifetimes, one isn't really a supporter of democracy.
My opinion is that we have a responsibility to point out what was promised and what actually happened. That isn't a refusal to accept what happened. It's a fundamental requirement in a properly functioning democracy.
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
I saw a yougov poll today which showed more people regret leaving the EU than supported it. I think you may be waiting quite a while.
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Again Wilts, regretting it shouldn’t mean not accepting it or refusing to be a part of what could be a promising new era.
That attitude is selfish and childish.
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Ker ker ker ker ker ker ker
Ker Stammer.
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
I saw a yougov poll today which showed more people regret leaving the EU than supported it. I think you may be waiting quite a while.
Where was that poll from, Wilts, and what date? I have seen a YouGov poll that says different, but it's linked in the Daily Express so not allowed as evidence on this forum.
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If someone sold you a toilet and instead of working normally shit rose up and covered your feet and the bathroom floor would you complain about it or make the best of it?
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It depends whether I was entitled to a refund or not.
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I don't think anyone can help you then
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Okay, I’ll just get on with things then.
What was your point again?
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not trolling are you?
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According to reports today they were gutted at the BBC studios that on that first morning they had to cancell their Champaign for Remain party.
It was worth it just to spoil their bloody party. Probably explains why they have been so arsie since, all that champaign being drunk by the winners.
That's what you get when you are losers, and now their jobs are being culled, always happens to losers who chose to voice their support for the wrong side especially in politics.
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Ha ha. If you’re quick, Sydney, you’ll catch Billy up.
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whereas you will rarely catch anyone
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Just chuck a hook in with no bait he always goes for it Belton, must be the water in Aus.
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whereas you will rarely catch anyone
You’d have to hit a ball first.
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look at those that support and agree with you belton, your coterie ........... that should tell you something at least.
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Hound.
My take? If one simply shrugs one's shoulders at the most untruthful and deliberately deceitful political campaign in our lifetimes, one isn't really a supporter of democracy.
My opinion is that we have a responsibility to point out what was promised and what actually happened. That isn't a refusal to accept what happened. It's a fundamental requirement in a properly functioning democracy.
Irrespective of what your opinion is though, we are out of the EU and we have to make the best of what we have.
It doesn’t matter what you point out about what was promised, it didn’t materialise so constantly moaning won’t change things.
It isn’t about shrugging the shoulders either, it is about being realistic about where we are now.
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Just chuck a hook in with no bait he always goes for it Belton, must be the water in Aus.
Back fishing on the railway bridge again selby? And this time with your apprentice.
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and what are supporters or fence sitters refusing to do hound, they are not admitting that it's a crock that there are no tangible benefits and very likely will be none, maybe if they admitted what is the new reality we could in fact all move on
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Told Ya, he can't resist, last word Syd, and the big catch follows with Kato, the biggest in the pool, you can chuck him back though too old and grisly.
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Okay, I’ll just get on with things then.
Get on with what exactly belton?
Like lots of Brexiters you're full of sound-bites, but no substance or direction. So, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside" one.
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Told Ya, he can't resist, last word Syd, and the big catch follows with Kato, the biggest in the pool, you can chuck him back though too old and grisly.
It must be difficult to get your message out in a vacuum selby
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Hound.
At the risk of sounding like I'm moaning, allow me to give an example of where we are now.
Back in November, my company won its biggest contract for nearly 8 years. Time-critical stuff that we have to deliver to a major customer. As part of the set up, we need to buy £60k worth of high tech equipment from UK suppliers. When I put the project plan together in November, the suppliers were all quoting me 2-4 week delivery time.
This past fortnight I've been putting in orders for this equipment. The lead times have gone up to 9-12 weeks. Reason? Have a wild stab in the dark.
So today I've had a very difficult meeting with my customer where I've had to explain that we cannot meet their timescales. And the customer is now reviewing the contract.
So forgive me if I get a tad tetchy when folk complain about people moaning about Brexit instead of getting on with it.
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Told Ya, he can't resist, last word Syd, and the big catch follows with Kato, the biggest in the pool, you can chuck him back though too old and grisly.
Keep pushing selby, keep pushing....
(https://i.imgur.com/0mHm7gi.gif)
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Hound.
At the risk of sounding like I'm moaning, allow me to give an example of where we are now.
Back in November, my company won its biggest contract for nearly 8 years. Time-critical stuff that we have to deliver to a major customer. As part of the set up, we need to buy £60k worth of high tech equipment from UK suppliers. When I put the project plan together in November, the suppliers were all quoting me 2-4 week delivery time.
This past fortnight I've been putting in orders for this equipment. The lead times have gone up to 9-12 weeks. Reason? Have a wild stab in the dark.
So today I've had a very difficult meeting with my customer where I've had to explain that we cannot meet their timescales. And the customer is now reviewing the contract.
So forgive me if I get a tad tetchy when folk complain about people moaning about Brexit instead of getting on with it.
So tell me what you can do about that situation.
My guess is probably not much.
I can understand your frustration but you just have to get on with things and deal with it the best that you can.
That potential heart attack isn’t worth it.
Edit.
Can any of your competitors offer a faster delivery than 9-12 weeks?
If not then your customer will have to wait as he can’t go anywhere else can he.
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Okay, I’ll just get on with things then.
Get on with what exactly belton?
Like lots of Brexiters you're full of sound-bites, but no substance or direction. So, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside" one.
I never made you any promises.
I’ve never said there are/will be no downsides. I’ve never said there will be considerable upsides.
Your confusing me with someone else. That is the first thing you need to understand and overcome: a’Brexiter’ isn’t a political party or a single entity.
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"If a man dies when he's hung, keep on hanging him until he gets used to it."
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So that’s it then Glyn. We might as well just all kill ourselves.
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If you want to interpret it that way, I'm not going to stop you.
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What does it mean to you?
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Thanks for your advice Hound.
You are right. I can't do much about it. We are just victims of the "teething problems" that Gove grinningly dismissed.
Regarding competition, that is not the point. It is a time-critical piece of work. If it can't be delivered on time, it is pointless. So at best it looks like we are forking out for unnecessary overtime and turning away other work to clear the decks for this one.
Issues like this are affecting hundreds, probably thousands of other companies. We are all doing our best to "get on with it". Excuse me if I don't appreciate being told to do so by people who aren't having to deal with the situation they have chosen for us.
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You have my sympathy.
But, perhaps a football forum’s off topic section’s not the place to be then. Clearly, there aren’t enough business educated posters on here to understand you.
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Thanks for that advice Belton. It's very helpful.
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What does it mean to you?
To me it means exactly what someone like you says when they say 'get on with it and make it work'.
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Okay, I’ll just get on with things then.
Get on with what exactly belton?
Like lots of Brexiters you're full of sound-bites, but no substance or direction. So, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside" one.
I never made you any promises.
I’ve never said there are/will be no downsides. I’ve never said there will be considerable upsides.
Your confusing me with someone else. That is the first thing you need to understand and overcome: a’Brexiter’ isn’t a political party or a single entity.
I didn't say you did belton, I said the Leave Campaigns did. You must remember, those promises you clearly must have believed or you wouldn't have voted leave. And you must still believe those promises as you're not calling them out as lies!
So, if you believed them then, and you believe them now, you must have some understanding of how they could be delivered, (us remainers pointed out at the time either how they couldn't, [no disruption, NI/Republic border etc], or that they already could while being a member of the EU, [control of our borders, sovereignty etc], otherwise how could you have voted for them? How could you still support them as you do by saying get on with it?
Again then, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside".
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Just a general point - to nobody in particular....... but is it OK to refer to yourself as a 'remainer' any more - as this option seems to have left the table...? #justasking
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MM, we are all leavers. There are no Remainers, only Remoaners.
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or the 3 wise monkeys
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The country needs to move on. Which ever we you or i voted makes no difference in dealing with the here and now.
I wonder if the staunch remainers, those who still delude themselves by thinking the referndum was a fix, as they love the EU so much are happy to wait their turn in the EU vaccine queue (sponsored by Billy Smarts)?
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MM, we are all leavers. There are no Remainers, only Remoaners.
By the same token BB we were all remainers in 1974 but that didn't stop certain people and factions working to overturn that result for over 40 years.
You must expect a similar response when this vote was a much closer result than the previous one which was eventually reversed.
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Idler, it is totally democratic to fight on for a cause that you firmly believe in, but how can democracy work if after every vote the losers claim it is their democratic right to overrule it and demand a re-vote?
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You are fighting an old battle BB. The argument about the second vote ended nearly 18 months ago. You are the only one bringing that up now.
We have all accepted that we left the EU. We are now dealing with the consequences. Some people seem to prefer not to hear about them, but they are happening nonetheless.
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''Brexit: UK lost 'significant' access to EU policing data under deal, report warns''
this is pretty bad for the law n' order party?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56529359
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You are fighting an old battle BB. The argument about the second vote ended nearly 18 months ago. You are the only one bringing that up now.
We have all accepted that we left the EU. We are now dealing with the consequences. Some people seem to prefer not to hear about them, but they are happening nonetheless.
I'm fighting an old battle! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
https://youtu.be/9w1y-kMPNcM
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whatever the link is I suppose it's all you have
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Idler, it is totally democratic to fight on for a cause that you firmly believe in, but how can democracy work if after every vote the losers claim it is their democratic right to overrule it and demand a re-vote?
[/quote
Sorry BB out shopping. Forage stated that he would fight on if he lost a close vote. That must encourage losers to take the same view.
I can accept losing a vote although I did reluctantly vote leave in my postal vote. I was very much 50/50 at the time and probably would have just voted stay if voting on the day.
What I can’t accept is the abject failure of anyone in government to make a coherent argument of why we are now better off out whilst getting rid of any benefits of the SM or CU.
I never for one minute thought that we would crash out as incompetently as we did and I wouldn’t have voted for this shambles.
It’s like going into hospital with a big toe problem and then coming round later to find that this was cured by them amputating your whole leg.
Back to the shopping now.
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Okay, I’ll just get on with things then.
Get on with what exactly belton?
Like lots of Brexiters you're full of sound-bites, but no substance or direction. So, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside" one.
I never made you any promises.
I’ve never said there are/will be no downsides. I’ve never said there will be considerable upsides.
Your confusing me with someone else. That is the first thing you need to understand and overcome: a’Brexiter’ isn’t a political party or a single entity.
I didn't say you did belton, I said the Leave Campaigns did. You must remember, those promises you clearly must have believed or you wouldn't have voted leave. And you must still believe those promises as you're not calling them out as lies!
So, if you believed them then, and you believe them now, you must have some understanding of how they could be delivered, (us remainers pointed out at the time either how they couldn't, [no disruption, NI/Republic border etc], or that they already could while being a member of the EU, [control of our borders, sovereignty etc], otherwise how could you have voted for them? How could you still support them as you do by saying get on with it?
Again then, tell us, what are you going to 'get on with' that will deliver the promises of the leave campaigns? And how are you going to deliver those promises? Let's make it easy and start with the "there'll be no downsides to leaving the EU, only a considerable upside".
Apologies, Not. I mis read.
However, you don’t appear to have listened to a single word from me about my decision to vote, but I’ll try again. I was appalled by the behaviour of both the remain and leave campaigns. If remain had done anything like a competent job, I believe I would have voted to remain. Leave lied, about many things. I have never said any different. Remain just told everyone not to vote leave. It was incompetence beyond belief. I am no more or less responsible than you for dealing with what happens next, while ever we are both living in Britain.
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Idler, it is totally democratic to fight on for a cause that you firmly believe in, but how can democracy work if after every vote the losers claim it is their democratic right to overrule it and demand a re-vote?
[/quote
Sorry BB out shopping. Forage stated that he would fight on if he lost a close vote. That must encourage losers to take the same view.
I can accept losing a vote although I did reluctantly vote leave in my postal vote. I was very much 50/50 at the time and probably would have just voted stay if voting on the day.
What I can’t accept is the abject failure of anyone in government to make a coherent argument of why we are now better off out whilst getting rid of any benefits of the SM or CU.
I never for one minute thought that we would crash out as incompetently as we did and I wouldn’t have voted for this shambles.
It’s like going into hospital with a big toe problem and then coming round later to find that this was cured by them amputating your whole leg.
Back to the shopping now.
Farage stated his intent to fight on against EU membership had he lost, but if he had lost, the default position of the UK being members of the EU would not have changed. Things would have carried on as normal, meaning the remain voters would have democratically got their wish instantly.
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Again Wilts, regretting it shouldn’t mean not accepting it or refusing to be a part of what could be a promising new era.
That attitude is selfish and childish.
The word 'could' doing a lot of work in that sentence Belton, 'could' be a lot of other things other than a promising new era. Which is exactly why people should not be silenced in debating it.
Of course if you feel anyone is doing that in a selfish and childish manner then you are of course entirely within your right to point that out. Just as you would to someone gloating over the result and refusing to move on in a selfish and childish manner...
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
I saw a yougov poll today which showed more people regret leaving the EU than supported it. I think you may be waiting quite a while.
Where was that poll from, Wilts, and what date? I have seen a YouGov poll that says different, but it's linked in the Daily Express so not allowed as evidence on this forum.
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Again Wilts, regretting it shouldn’t mean not accepting it or refusing to be a part of what could be a promising new era.
That attitude is selfish and childish.
The word 'could' doing a lot of work in that sentence Belton, 'could' be a lot of other things other than a promising new era. Which is exactly why people should not be silenced in debating it.
Of course if you feel anyone is doing that in a selfish and childish manner then you are of course entirely within your right to point that out. Just as you would to someone gloating over the result and refusing to move on in a selfish and childish manner...
You what, Wilts?
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
I saw a yougov poll today which showed more people regret leaving the EU than supported it. I think you may be waiting quite a while.
Where was that poll from, Wilts, and what date? I have seen a YouGov poll that says different, but it's linked in the Daily Express so not allowed as evidence on this forum.
Yougov 10th March BB - you can find it here:
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1375130362595012608
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I can't find the poll you're referring to. All I can find is the bit that says we now have the highest % of voters since April to say that we were right to leave.
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That’s all fair enough, but that doesn’t mean we can’t move on either. Too many people wallowing in self pity.
I saw a yougov poll today which showed more people regret leaving the EU than supported it. I think you may be waiting quite a while.
Where was that poll from, Wilts, and what date? I have seen a YouGov poll that says different, but it's linked in the Daily Express so not allowed as evidence on this forum.
Yougov 10th March BB - you can find it here:
https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1375130362595012608
Worth noting there are still a proportion who don't know, so actually less than 50% of those polled stated that. This a problem with polls such as that.
Some other interesting ones;
View of the EU (more unfavourable than favourable)
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2021/03/22/e0986/1
Also another that shows net the handling of brexit by the government is dealt to be bad by a higher proportion than good (48 Vs 41)
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I can't find the poll you're referring to. All I can find is the bit that says we now have the highest % of voters since April to say that we were right to leave.
Well if you can't find the results of a poll that appears when you click a link, then I'm afraid I can't help you.
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I can't find the poll you're referring to. All I can find is the bit that says we now have the highest % of voters since April to say that we were right to leave.
Well if you can't find the results of a poll that appears when you click a link, then I'm afraid I can't help you.
Well, I clicked on the link and I couldn't find it! Maybe it's been removed because its not true?
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Nothing to grin at aye? these stories are real and they are from business people. 'Someone said the other day' ............. well they were not wrong there.
''Brexit: UK cheese firm boss in despair over minister's export advice
Co-founder of Cheshire Cheese Company told by environment minister to look at US and Canada markets rather than EU''
''''Spurrell has been been left with a £250,000 hole in his export trade with Europe but said Prentis told him in a meeting on Tuesday there was nothing she could do to ease the barriers because the extra paperwork, including health certificates for each consignment of cheese, were mandatory under EU rules.
Sales of his £25 to £30 pack of cheeses to individuals were growing and he had planned a £1m warehouse in Macclesfield to fulfil orders.
But under the new rules each parcel needs to be accompanied by a health certificate costing £180, making low-value sales unviable''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/27/brexit-uk-cheese-firm-boss-in-despair-over-ministers-export-advice
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Novavax vaccine is going to be manufactured in the North East of England, The company reluctant to sign contracts with the EU due to their dealings in contract talks with other Bio companies. Another high tech company situated in the UK.
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And a plant in Barnard Castle, oh the irony!
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Novavax vaccine is going to be manufactured in the North East of England, The company reluctant to sign contracts with the EU due to their dealings in contract talks with other Bio companies. Another high tech company situated in the UK.
Are Spain and Portugal not in the EU anymore?
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My take on this is that throughout most of the pandemic, Johnson and his government have performed like a set of incompetent, blundering, embarrassing clowns.
Now, however, we're all getting vaccinated, whereas most of the poor souls in Europe aren't, because the EU's performance with the Astra Zeneca vaccine has been such as to make them look like a set of incompetent, blundering, embarrassing clowns.
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My take on this is that throughout most of the pandemic, Johnson and his government have performed like a set of incompetent, blundering, embarrassing clowns.
Now, however, we're all getting vaccinated, whereas most of the poor souls in Europe aren't, because the EU's performance with the Astra Zeneca vaccine has been such as to make them look like a set of incompetent, blundering, embarrassing clowns.
The bright spot in a shit show, the Vaccination programme has and is a massive success, thanks to leaving the roll out to organisations that know what they are doing, the NHS, instead of getting a party donor to do it and making a few quid on the side
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That's because the Tory Party are there to protect and fund the NHS Filo. The funding methods set up the last time Labour were the custodians with their mates has gone a long way to nearly bankrupting some health authorities.
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wouldn't have a bit of spare proof would you guvnor?
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And of course with elections in the offing......... vaccines from Teeside will be very welcome so will a new hospital in Donny and 65,000 new homes in Wales, as long as they are not the same as the 200,000 thousand promised by the tories in 2015 ................... not a single one built.
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And of course with elections in the offing......... vaccines from Teeside will be very welcome so will a new hospital in Donny and 65,000 new homes in Wales, as long as they are not the same as the 200,000 thousand promised by the tories in 2015 ................... not a single one built.
We don't need any new houses thank you. For every new house we increase the danger of flooding and kill off more wildlife by making them homeless.
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You can tell that some people don’t know about how many houses are being built.
There are plenty of houses being built in Hatfield alone.
HAWA.
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I suppose the watchdog is wrong hound? you are certainly wrong.
''Successive Conservative governments have failed to deliver a single new “starter home” despite promising to build 200,000 by 2020, Whitehall’s spending watchdog has found''
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/05/tories-broke-pledge-on-starter-homes-in-2015-manifesto-report-says
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You never mentioned starter homes.
Moving the goalposts.
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If you kept up about what your own party is doing you'd know a bit more hound but you don't care to know.
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Maybe moving the goalposts is in the Australian rules Hound!
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the two Rennies coverong for each other
''You can tell that some people don’t know about how many houses are being built.
There are plenty of houses being built in Hatfield alone.
HAWA.
Well I'll go to our ouse ............ if I could afford one.
''Government scrapping affordable starter homes ‘deplorable’, say MPs ... Report says initiative strung along 85,000 young people waiting for discounted housing''
''election promises by men of integrity''
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Never mind quoting links.
Just man up and admit you didn’t mention starter homes.
It is ok for you to be wrong.
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man up and admit you don't have a clue hound and just want to whine and cry when your party is called out
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man up and admit you don't have a clue hound and just want to whine and cry when your party is called out
Take your ball home lad.
No one wants to play with you anyway.
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Tell us all about any tory promises to build 200,000 other houses? it's a big number surely their number 2 fan would remember it?
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LoL.
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it's the tory party that laugh at the nouveau riche hound when they throw them a bone.
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You still make me laugh so much.
Gotta go now.
Enjoy talking to yourself now.
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You can tell that some people don’t know about how many houses are being built.
There are plenty of houses being built in Hatfield alone.
HAWA.
this is the funny bit hound
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-51577853
Stats.
Lots of new homes. My last house was built 2015 (I bought it new), my current was built 2013, I bought it In 2019. I'm hoping in future to build my own, whether I want that hassle remains to be seen.
But there are plenty being built. A huge number in Doncaster right now. We actually got a consultation note for new houses just last week close to us in an area I don't think is a good idea to build, but there are new estates all over round here right now.
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was it one of the 200,000 starter homes promised at a discount price bfyp?
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No, but they did implement help to buy and stamp duty reductions (without the help to buy policy I wouldn't have been able to buy a house).
It doesn't matter how a house as built or funded, I'd argue public/government funding isn't the way forward at all.
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I was talking about election promises and not to believe anything johnson and his cronies put out there before these elections. 65,000 homes in Wales and a kite flown about Doncaster Hospital.
''Tories fail to build any of 200,000 starter homes promised in 2015, says watchdog
National Audit Office says no starter homes have been built despite election pledge''
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/05/tories-broke-pledge-on-starter-homes-in-2015-manifesto-report-says
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There are far too many house being built in Doncaster. Hatfield, Balby (near Morrisons), Auckley, Blaxton.
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600 being built in Goole because of the influx of workers expected to come with the new industries being centred there.
Syd can add them to the estimated 1000 new offices reported that EU finance companies are moving to London because of Brexit if he can find the link.
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600 being built in Goole because of the influx of workers expected to come with the new industries.
It's all wrong. Ruining small towns and villages, everywhere will look the same.
They're building houses on the old IH site on Wheatley hall road, at least it's former industrial land i suppose. There's a Costa as you drive in, who wants to live somewhere like that where the big brands have moved in before the houses.
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600 being built in Goole because of the influx of workers expected to come with the new industries.
It's all wrong. Ruining small towns and villages, everywhere will look the same.
They're building houses on the old IH site on Wheatley hall road, at least it's former industrial land i suppose. There's a Costa as you drive in, who wants to live somewhere like that where the big brands have moved in before the houses.
Said a bloke who moved out to a small village...
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Wilts, AL might have bought the oldest house in the village for all we know.
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Back on topic.
Does someone from the 'we have left, now move on' brigade wish to have a word with the people from the shellfish industry who are threatening to sue the government for misleading them and causing their businesses to fold. It appears they haven't got the memo. I am sure they would appreciate it.
Let us know what they say...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/31/uk-shellfish-farmers-threaten-legal-action-over-ban-on-exports-to-eu
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Wilts, AL might have bought the oldest house in the village for all we know.
Might have. Might be the one my ancestors used to live in as I have a lot of links to Butterwick. But its clearly one less house for local people to live in now he has bought it - and he ain't local. Where are they going to live if incommers are buying up their houses and they are not allowed to build new ones?
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Mmm, maybe someone moved away.
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The Banking Industry in London are doing well out of it.
Recruitment for bankers is at a three year high.
Vacancies in the sector rose 19.4% year on year the highest since July 2019.
Bank shares have bounced back in value since January 2021 and are being allowed to pay
dividends again.
The pound has risen in value v the Euro since January.
Anybody stuck with Euros for this years summer holidays should be getting rid of them ASAP.
And the EU don't want anything to do with us so don't go and support their economy, there are plenty of welcoming countries that will be pleased for you to go to.
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I think Wilts said 'on topic' not 'gone tropic' selby
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Can't think why anyone would turn there nose up to fresh shellfish ..............
''Water firms discharged raw sewage into English waters 400,000 times last year
Data published for first time by Environment Agency shows 27% increase on previous year''
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/31/water-firms-discharged-raw-sewage-into-english-waters-400000-times-last-year
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Shellfish bas**rds.
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they should mussel up
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A point on that made before, clean the water up and the problem goes away.
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yes that
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Wilts, AL might have bought the oldest house in the village for all we know.
Might have. Might be the one my ancestors used to live in as I have a lot of links to Butterwick. But its clearly one less house for local people to live in now he has bought it - and he ain't local. Where are they going to live if incommers are buying up their houses and they are not allowed to build new ones?
No i'm not local. I moved from Westwoodside. :lol: My house is approx 1950s.
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There are far too many house being built in Doncaster. Hatfield, Balby (near Morrisons), Auckley, Blaxton.
Where do you expect people to live AL?
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There are far too many house being built in Doncaster. Hatfield, Balby (near Morrisons), Auckley, Blaxton.
Where do you expect people to live AL?
He's said several times before that he doesn't expect people to live.
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There are far too many house being built in Doncaster. Hatfield, Balby (near Morrisons), Auckley, Blaxton.
Where do you expect people to live AL?
Not in houses built on green fields ruining what little countryside we have left. The area around Auckley has been ruined by overdevelopment. I know there will always be the odd house here and there but it has gone out of control. I suppose at least the Wheatley Hall Road/IH land is recycled from old industrial use. Every extra yard of concrete laid increases the chance of flooding, where do all the wild life go when we have taken their habitat away? I have a concrete driveway which i will be taking up and relaying as gravel along with planting hedges and shrubs instead of fencing. There's plenty of room in towns to build, what about all the department stores which are becoming empty that could be modified?
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
https://theconversation.com/think-your-country-is-crowded-these-maps-reveal-the-truth-about-population-density-across-europe-90345
https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/documents/upload/wtd10.pdf
We have one of the highest population densities and lowest amount of trees and woodlands in europe. Why would we want to make that worse? You struggle to go in the countryside anywhere without the view being blighted by wind turbines. We need to save these areas from the greed of developers otherwise we will end up with everywhere looking the same with seas of plastic houses with costas and mcdonalds every 500 yards. The countryside is different to towns and should only be modified steadily.
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
https://theconversation.com/think-your-country-is-crowded-these-maps-reveal-the-truth-about-population-density-across-europe-90345
https://www.parliament.uk/globalassets/documents/documents/upload/wtd10.pdf
We have one of the highest population densities and lowest amount of trees and woodlands in europe. Why would we want to make that worse? You struggle to go in the countryside anywhere without the view being blighted by wind turbines. We need to save these areas from the greed of developers otherwise we will end up with everywhere looking the same with seas of plastic houses with costas and mcdonalds every 500 yards. The countryside is different to towns and should only be modified steadily.
Whilst I agree with you mostly - especially with regard to McDonald's and Costa's; I actually think that wind turbines are quite nice to look at - and at least where there is a turbine, you won't find a housing estate.....
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I have always said that a builder wanting to build on green field sites should be made to also build a percentage on brown field sites before permission is granted.
In Bradford house builders have now built or are building in every green field between Thackley and Shipley.
This is because the council didn't keep up to date with their planning regulations. The house builders appealed when planning was denied and they won the appeal as there was a ten year gap from the date that the council should have made sure building shouldn't take place on this land and the builders trying again.
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The environment secretary, George Eustice, is facing a threat of legal action from shellfish farmers over claims that the government has misled the industry over its post-Brexit arrangements with the EU.
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If our waters are so dirty why are we letting foreign fishing boats fish within the limits, ban them all if they are too dirty for our shell fishermen to fish in surely they are too dirty for any other EU country's boats to fish in.
After all it is their pollution findings we will be following, hold them to them and don't let them do any fishing.
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If our waters are so dirty why are we letting foreign fishing boats fish within the limits, ban them all if they are too dirty for our shell fishermen to fish in surely they are too dirty for any other EU country's boats to fish in.
After all it is their pollution findings we will be following, hold them to them and don't let them do any fishing.
Because we sold them our quotas and gave them permission. That's why.
Just because they fish in our waters doesn't mean they land them in the EU either. They're probably selling our mucky fish to us to eat.
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I have always said that a builder wanting to build on green field sites should be made to also build a percentage on brown field sites before permission is granted.
In Bradford house builders have now built or are building in every green field between Thackley and Shipley.
This is because the council didn't keep up to date with their planning regulations. The house builders appealed when planning was denied and they won the appeal as there was a ten year gap from the date that the council should have made sure building shouldn't take place on this land and the builders trying again.
Well that seems to have stopped that debate idler.
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If our waters are so dirty why are we letting foreign fishing boats fish within the limits, ban them all if they are too dirty for our shell fishermen to fish in surely they are too dirty for any other EU country's boats to fish in.
After all it is their pollution findings we will be following, hold them to them and don't let them do any fishing.
Because that's what Boris Johnson agreed to.
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Sussex business cuts dozens of jobs after losing 90% of trade to Brexit .A Sussex company has had to let dozens of employees go after losing almost all of its business to Brexit.
“To work this hard and then have to hand over 90 per cent of our business to Europe. These are real people, real jobs, real lives and real taxes and they are all things we have lost in this process.”
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I think that stories like that were, and are still, inevitable.
There might of course be others in which people and businesses benefit from us leaving.
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I think that stories like that were, and are still, inevitable.
There might of course be others in which people and businesses benefit from us leaving.
Well, here's the place for someone to let us know about them.
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Dream over - Thousands of British expats at risk of being deported from Spain.
So they don't need us more than we needed them then, who knew:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1415577/Brexit-news-latest-eu-vaccine-block-astrazeneca-uk-john-redwood-boris-johnson
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Daily Express? How come you lefties can use it as evidence, but us ordinary sensible folk can't?
Anyway, regarding the story, Let's hope we do the same thing in the UK.
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As long as you put your hand up for farm work and shifts at the local hospital.
''Philippine nurses 'became part of the NHS family' in Wales
Philippine nurses 'became part of the NHS family' in Wales
Close
Nurses who were recruited from the Philippines due to a nursing shortage say they have "no regrets" after 20 years in north Wales.
About 100 nurses came in 2001 and took up positions across the three main hospitals.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-wales-56610658
you may not find this story in the express
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.................. this is a bit ruff
''Brexit: Scottish dog food firm relocates to France due to export red tape
Owner says he decided ‘enough was enough’ after encountering more and more trade barriers''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/01/brexit-scottish-dog-food-firm-relocates-to-france-due-to-export-red-tape
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.................. this is a bit ruff
''Brexit: Scottish dog food firm relocates to France due to export red tape
Owner says he decided ‘enough was enough’ after encountering more and more trade barriers''
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/apr/01/brexit-scottish-dog-food-firm-relocates-to-france-due-to-export-red-tape
Scottish dog food.
Aka Haggis.
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It's quite offal really but then when it was invented so were a lot of meals
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There will be winners and losers in the post Brexit fallout.... it will ultimately calm down and life will go on with people and businesses adjusting accordingly. Barriers to free trade are not as easy and businesses will need to adapt and overcome these going forward - eventually these will ease and processes will become easier.
I dare say that when we went into the EEC (1973?) there were lots of boxes to tick and hurdles to get over also during the transition period... some folk will recall this time better than me. I bet there were winners and losers then and the same will happen as we reset the trade arrangements now.
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There will be winners and losers in the post Brexit fallout.... it will ultimately calm down and life will go on with people and businesses adjusting accordingly. Barriers to free trade are not as easy and businesses will need to adapt and overcome these going forward - eventually these will ease and processes will become easier.
I dare say that when we went into the EEC (1973?) there were lots of boxes to tick and hurdles to get over also during the transition period... some folk will recall this time better than me. I bet there were winners and losers then and the same will happen as we reset the trade arrangements now.
Not really. Entry into the EEC (and later the Single Market) was designed to reduce and eventually do away with hurdles and box ticking - which it did. I cannot think of anybody who would have been losers then apart from shipping agents who couldn't charge for filling out documentation that wasn't needed any more. We as a country have decided we want it back again, and nobody can say it's come as a surprise - every non-EU country has had to cope with the exact same documentation, rules and regulations for all the time that we were in the EU; and we've now decided to join them as a non-EU country and enjoy the documentation, rules and regulations just as much as they do.
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There will be winners and losers in the post Brexit fallout.... it will ultimately calm down and life will go on with people and businesses adjusting accordingly. Barriers to free trade are not as easy and businesses will need to adapt and overcome these going forward - eventually these will ease and processes will become easier.
I dare say that when we went into the EEC (1973?) there were lots of boxes to tick and hurdles to get over also during the transition period... some folk will recall this time better than me. I bet there were winners and losers then and the same will happen as we reset the trade arrangements now.
Well yes, if you call businesses loosing customers and closing or moving as 'adjusting accordingly'.
And who wins when you put barriers and rules in place to make life more difficult. Clearly there are now going to be more elderly Brits staying in this country and putting more strain on the NHS and all that costs rather than retiring to Spain and using their's. Who has won there - not the taxpayer.
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Government to pay £250m to participate in EU Horizon programme - is this the first rumblings of re-joining the EU by stealth
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/apr/01/uk-pledges-extra-250m-for-hi-tech-research-collaboration-with-eu
Sorry but couldn't find this story in the Daily Express, funny that as they like to tell us positive Brexit news...
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Daily Express? How come you lefties can use it as negative evidence, but us ordinary sensible folk can't use it as positive evidence?
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is there an echo in here, I'm sure I heard that yesterday too
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Brexit: Scottish dog food fir
m relocates to France due to export red tape.
The founder of a Scottish dog food business has told how Brexit forced him to move to France after his exports to the EU were halted because of th
e new trade barriers in place since 1 January.
Antoon Murphy said he was left with no other option than to relocate or face losing the business.
.
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Yep, there sure is an echo.
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Daily Express? How come you lefties can use it as evidence, but us ordinary sensible folk can't?
Anyway, regarding the story, Let's hope we do the same thing in the UK.
You can use the Daily Express as much as you want providing you dont mind anyone sensible pointing out the reality behind its right-wing propoganda and readers.
I don't mind how many probems other British people have so long as we can be cruel to foreigners - seems to be the view of this one...
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Ah, I see! So us ordinary sensible folk can use it as evidence, just like you do, but if it doesn't support your lefty views it isn't true and will be pointed out by someone sensible. Who are you going to rely on to do that?
Have you advertised for the vacancy yet?
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Ah, I see! So us ordinary sensible folk can use it as evidence, just like you do, but if it doesn't support your lefty views it isn't true and will be pointed out by someone sensible. Who are you going to rely on to do that?
Have you advertised for the vacancy yet?
Feel free to post all the stories the Daily Express has published into how the UK and British people have benefitted from leaving the EU and then we will see who judges them best. You can be the final arbitrater if that helps.
In your own time...
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
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Some proper through the looking glass stuff going on in the Scottish independence debate.
SNP who were against Brexit because of the problems of leaving the Single Market are saying they'll be fine being separate from the rest of the UK.
Tory ministers who insisted there'd be no major problems for the UK after leaving the SM are prophesying economic doom for Scotland if it leaves the UK single market.
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
Well you would help a government with a slogan of 'Build, Build, Build', who promised to change planning law to allow more building on greenfield sites and are funded by property developers get into power. Did you think it would be 'Build, Build, Build' somewhere else maybe?
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Just imagine the turn around in opinions if all the planning permissions on the same sights were for council houses. The lefties would love it and all those already in private houses in the area would be against it.
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especially if this minister and this developer were involved selby
''Robert Jenrick says decision to save developer £40m was 'perfectly fair'''
https://www.cityam.com/robert-jenrick-says-decision-to-save-developer-40m-was-perfectly-fair/
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
Well you would help a government with a slogan of 'Build, Build, Build', who promised to change planning law to allow more building on greenfield sites and are funded by property developers get into power. Did you think it would be 'Build, Build, Build' somewhere else maybe?
Wilts, just remind me where I have helped the government.
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well hound any time anyone on the forum criticises this government you put on the pads.
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Against my better judgement SR, I will ask you how that is helping the government.
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Your undying support does not usually allow for a debate around the facts where the failure of the government are discussed in logical way, you do have plnty of help in this matter I have to say.
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Your undying support does not usually allow for a debate around the facts where the failure of the government are discussed in logical way, you do have plnty of help in this matter I have to say.
1. How does that help the government, you didn’t say.
2. How do I have pinty (plenty I assume) of help.
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Not sure I can help you further hound
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Great.
Not having an answer to my question has probably shut you up.
Anyway, I went against my better judgement by letting you suck me in there but hey ho, I suppose it gave you a rush so I will sleep better for knowing you had someone to talk to tonight.
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If bst picked and poked at everything you wrote or made fun of you I could understand you not being happy about it but his posts which are mostly accurate and factual both here and the football forum seem to wind you up, is it jeasousy, what is your problem?
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I am not jealous of him in any way.
Why would I be?
I don’t know him.
I am sure he is more than capable of sticking up for himself and when you began this latest attack on my posts by defending your leader it was against a perfectly viable and factual post I made which bst himself has since acknowledged that I did no wrong to him.
He and I have differing views on many things and don’t need you to be the self appointed referee.
Now kindly find someone else to troll.
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you didn't answer the question hound
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There's a blind boil on the end of your nose Syd wants lancing it has been getting up your nose for nearly five years now buddy.
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thanks for the advice buddy, I know when people start with the insults they've already lost
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you are the serial loser Syd, youn havn't won a lot since 2010, now that's a long run.
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remind me again how old you are selby?
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Just imagine the turn around in opinions if all the planning permissions on the same sights were for council houses. The lefties would love it and all those already in private houses in the area would be against it.
Interesting comment that. It came up on a few new housing areas where the so called affordable homes mix with much more expensive homes. I'm not sure that's a dynamic that works, as it doesn't quite look right in some ways.
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remind me again how old you are selby?
My guess would be 10. But I may well be wrong, he could be much younger.
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you really have had a bad run you two, Have you won any with the wife over the last ten years? I bet that's why you come on here when your not doing the housework.
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VW shedding 5000 jobs with more to come
-
Man charges after 30 petrol boms were thrown at police on outskirts of Belfast.
The arrest follows 5 nights of rioting in loyalist areas in Belfast and Derry blamed in part on loyalist disquiet over the UK government's Brexit agreement and it's Northern Ireland Protocol:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56631894
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56623901
Back to 1972, thanks Selby.
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Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away from the cartel.
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'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?
A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.
-
'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?
A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.
A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.
-
Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away from the cartel.
nothing to do with johnson stabbing may in the back then?
-
or johnson waiting to the last possible moment to drive the worst deal he could possibly get?
-
Look inwards Wilts, for five years you re moaners have enthused the EU to raise every obstacle in the UK's way and cheered on here when they have done it showing your true colours to have a reasonable and equal standing separation from the EU, and you are still doing it.
Shame on you and your kind, not accepting a democratic vote and accepting the result, it spoilt your Champaign for Remain party that night and you still haven't got over it.
The EU will pay in the near future, with a big economic hit, and more countries moving away from the cartel.
Look inwards Selby. You won - get over it. Tell us about the great country we have become and ignore the riots.
But no, you wont. You will tell us about any problems in the EU which we are no longer part of.
Because it was never about improving the UK was it Selby. All it was about was being cruel to foreigners.
-
Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?
-
'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?
A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.
A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.
The whole length of Wagons Way from the units to the new bridge over the railway is former pit land, in fact most of it is the former site of what was known locally as the red tip. I’m guessing you friend is a showman?
-
Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?
like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles
-
'What little countrside we have left'?
Aye, right.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096
Glyn to contra this, where I live which is on the edge of town more and more green space is disappearing by the day and the uptick in houses with little additional infrastructure isn't the right approach. If you look on the map between edenthorpe and armthorpe where the link road goes is all fields. In 5 years that will all be housing.
Places like Wheatley hall road are perfect for housing (though it does mean yet more traffic lights). I'd also wonder why we aren't building upwards a little more to save our green spaces?
Quite right bfyp.
The land on both sides of that link road from Sainsbury’s to the M18 has approved plans for development.
The new link road from the services at J5 that goes into Stainforth is also earmarked for industrial development and housing.
All that land was greenfield and woodland.
I’m happy to stand corrected, but having driven a few times on that link road from Stainforth to the M18, isn’t virtually all of it on the site of the former pit at Stainforth, which makes it brownfield rather than greenfield, and therefore a valid place to build?
A few hundred council houses on that wouldn’t go amiss..oh sorry, not enough profit in it for our patriotic property developers.
A good argument BVB but I don’t think that any of that land was pit land.
If indeed any of it was it would have been a very small part of it.
I have a friend who owns a plot of land on Waggons Way and they have repeatedly been turned down in their attempts to build a private house on it.
The whole length of Wagons Way from the units to the new bridge over the railway is former pit land, in fact most of it is the former site of what was known locally as the red tip. I’m guessing you friend is a showman?
Cheers Filo, i wasnt totally sure about that first bit to the new bridge over the railway.
However, the rest of the road, from the bridge to the motorway services and the link from the roundabout onto Bootham Lane and onto Station Road is the majority of the new road.
None of that, as far as i am aware, was brownfield.
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Even the Labour party have accepted that to fight the corner of rejoining the EU is electoral suicide for them, and the dunderheads on here still harp on boring everyone with their inane views which even their lords and gods have chucked overboard.
Lemmings have got nothing on them.
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Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?
There is a bit of a discussion among Rovers supporters on the main forum at the moment on why Rovers aren't winning. I see several people giving their various bits of expert knowledge on it but I just concentrate on the facts and outcomes at hand. That's all I am qualified at.
Some strange comments on the posts after this one, from people who ought to know better that I wish to totally disassociate myself from.
But thats what you get when you participate in a culture war. A culture war. Probably best not to encourage it if you ask me.
-
Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?
like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles
just in case you missed this BB
-
We have removed some posts from this thread and will continue to do so where we feel posters are resorting to personal slanging matches. Thanks.
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We have removed some posts from this thread and will continue to do so where we feel posters are resorting to personal slanging matches. Thanks.
You would do well to have a word with posters clearly trying to bait a response
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I totally agree Filo.
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BJW, did I ever, EVER say there were any positives up to this point regarding Brexit, other than democracy had prevailed?
Now, while you're here perhaps you can tell me why lies concerning the contents of my private messaging haven't been addressed, as I requested?
-
Wilts, have you ever pondered the reason why you and people with the same opinion as you never win anything?
like the dog that caught the car, you've won brexit and don't know what to do with it, come on bb give us something positive about this omnishambles
I'll give you it instead. We're all getting vaccinated.
How's the omnishambles in France going?
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you seem to forget SS I wasn't chasing it?
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''Health Secretary Matt Hancock has claimed Brexit allowed the UK to approve a Covid vaccine more quickly than other European Union (EU) countries.
"We do all the same safety checks and the same processes, but we have been able to speed up how they're done because of Brexit," he said in an interview with Times Radio.
And the Leader of the House of Commons, Jacob Rees-Mogg, tweeted: "We could only approve this vaccine so quickly because we have left the EU."''
''The EU - through the European Medicines Agency (EMA) - has yet to approve a coronavirus vaccine.
But the idea that Brexit enabled the UK to press ahead and authorise one is not right.
It was actually permitted under EU law, a point made by the head of the UK's medicines regulator on Wednesday''
https://www.bbc.com/news/55163730
you'd think hancock would know more about this?
-
The government explained its refusal to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme earlier this year by saying that it could secure doses more quickly itself. Others, however, claimed that Brexit will actually make the rollout of the UK’s vaccination programme more difficult. Who was right?
The UK could have followed the same course of vaccine action if it were still an EU member, but as staying in the EU’s medicines regulator was Labour’s policy and Keir Starmer's own personal choice, it can be claimed that the UK could have been in a far worse position now under Labour.
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dunno, dunno who said that
-
This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
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This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Excellent thread. I do have two small comments which do not affect the overall logic and conclusions.
First, as an aside, the current rioting has not been triggered by Brexit, rather the refusal to prosecute any Sinn Fein political members for a mass funeral of an IRA man at a time of strict limits (8 people i think) at other funerals. These same political figures had laid down that very law. However the underlying tensions on Brexit had already hugely stoked Unionist anger with the GB-NI border appearing - the very last thing they wanted, and seen by them as a first step to being cut off from the UK, then a border poll and secession of NI to Ireland.
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
The GFA was a wonderful way of giving both sides what they wanted - unfettered access to Ireland for Republicans who could more or less feel they were in Ireland anyway (hence their remain vote for the status quo), and unfettered access to GB for Unionists guaranteeing their staying within the UK. Ironically the Unionists voting Leave may well be voting to bring about what they fear most.
This Government has disgracefully sold out Northern Ireland on the altar of 'taking back control'. Ironic that in my lifetime they are the government least capable of controlling anything at all, be it economics, borders or pandemics.
Edit: This is a very important quote:
'Leaving the customs union and the single market makes a border either between NI and GB or between NI and RoI inevitable.'
Denied by all Leave Politicians at every single opportunity.
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DU.
I get that line about the Sinn Fein funeral issue being the proximate cause, not least because Arlene Foster was screaming about it repeatedly yesterday in fire and brimstone tones (before quietly saying that of course she didn't condone violence...)
But that has come in an atmosphere of increasing belligerent behaviour among Unionists who are understandably pissed off about being lied to over the GB/NI border. To be honest, Foster yesterday sounded like a politician trying to re-direct that anger away from the Brexit cause that she supported.
You're bang on about the importance of that quote. It is simple logic that has been denied over and again by Johnson's cabal. Further down the thread, Yates sums it up like this:
"The Leave narrative switched from 'we will never allow a NI-GB border and there will only be one between I/NI if the EU put one up' to 'this protocol thing has been forced on us by the EU we must get rid of it or not apply it'."
Lies and deception every step of the way. And now this is where we are.
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Absolutely BST. Totally agree.
-
It's a trajedy already made, who will ever forget this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7NFfUOJwDE
in vino veritas
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This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.
Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...
-
This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.
Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...
No I disagree. It wasn't inevitable. There could have been other forms of Brexit that would have meant there was a lesser effect of Brexit on NI.
What made it likley was Johnson's hard Brexit - and then his lying about it. As soon as he told the DUP no British PM would ever put a border in the Irish Sea, then agreed a deal to put a border in the Irish Sea, then told people he hadn't - there was going to be trouble.
I heard Peter Hain on the radio just now say Brexit had poured petrol on the flame of the troubles. And that funeral was the match.
What it needs now are wise heads and calm politicians on all sides. We have Boris Johnson and Brandon Lewis.
-
This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.
Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...
No I disagree. It wasn't inevitable. There could have been other forms of Brexit that would have meant there was a lesser effect of Brexit on NI.
What made it likley was Johnson's hard Brexit - and then his lying about it. As soon as he told the DUP no British PM would ever put a border in the Irish Sea, then agreed a deal to put a border in the Irish Sea, then told people he hadn't - there was going to be trouble.
I heard Peter Hain on the radio just now say Brexit had poured petrol on the flame of the troubles. And that funeral was the match.
What it needs now are wise heads and calm politicians on all sides. We have Boris Johnson and Brandon Lewis.
Wilts - what is being said above is that leaving the SM/CU meant a border somewhere (Ire/NI or GB/NI) was inevitable, not every kind of Brexit. Of course a softer Brexit remaining in the SM/CU avoids this issue. And we have been lied to at every twist and turn of the last 5 years.
And what Peter Hain says is exactly right in every aspect IMHO.
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This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.
Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...
No I disagree. It wasn't inevitable. There could have been other forms of Brexit that would have meant there was a lesser effect of Brexit on NI.
What made it likley was Johnson's hard Brexit - and then his lying about it. As soon as he told the DUP no British PM would ever put a border in the Irish Sea, then agreed a deal to put a border in the Irish Sea, then told people he hadn't - there was going to be trouble.
I heard Peter Hain on the radio just now say Brexit had poured petrol on the flame of the troubles. And that funeral was the match.
What it needs now are wise heads and calm politicians on all sides. We have Boris Johnson and Brandon Lewis.
Wilts - what is being said above is that leaving the SM/CU meant a border somewhere (Ire/NI or GB/NI) was inevitable, not every kind of Brexit. Of course a softer Brexit remaining in the SM/CU avoids this issue. And we have been lied to at every twist and turn of the last 5 years.
And what Peter Hain says is exactly right in every aspect IMHO.
Correct - that's precisely what I meant Dutch..... without any spin.
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The problem absolutely was the UK Govt deciding that a 52/48 vote was a mandate for a hard Brexit, including leaving the SM and CU, and steadfastly refusing to engage with the inevitable problem that meant for NI.
This really ought to make anyone's blood boil. The combination of pig-headed arrogance and pig-ignorant stupidity.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Seanmatty123/status/1380096890407116804
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This is a long thread but it sums up perfectly the NI situation. How peace came. Who was virulently against the GFA (plot spoiler - Michael Gove). Why and how Brexit has destabilised peace. Why it is going to be damned hard to out the violence genie back in the bottle.
https://mobile.twitter.com/t0nyyates/status/1380067048491978755
Second, the 56-44% vote to remain is a little more subtle than a majority seeing the consequences of Brexit. Nationalist/Republicans voted 80-20 to remain while Loyalist/Unionists voted 60-40 to leave. Some of those 60% Unionists would automatically vote against whatever Republicans want, and but the 'enlightened' 40% were enough to give an overall majority for remain.
Totally agree with this - it feels like it was inevitable that there would be trouble when 'leave' was voted for - but it also seems that some were just looking for the opportunity to re-engage old hostilities...... I can't see this ending well either way.
Agree that Arlene Foster sometimes morphs into Paisley with her wailing...
No I disagree. It wasn't inevitable. There could have been other forms of Brexit that would have meant there was a lesser effect of Brexit on NI.
What made it likley was Johnson's hard Brexit - and then his lying about it. As soon as he told the DUP no British PM would ever put a border in the Irish Sea, then agreed a deal to put a border in the Irish Sea, then told people he hadn't - there was going to be trouble.
I heard Peter Hain on the radio just now say Brexit had poured petrol on the flame of the troubles. And that funeral was the match.
What it needs now are wise heads and calm politicians on all sides. We have Boris Johnson and Brandon Lewis.
Wilts - what is being said above is that leaving the SM/CU meant a border somewhere (Ire/NI or GB/NI) was inevitable, not every kind of Brexit. Of course a softer Brexit remaining in the SM/CU avoids this issue. And we have been lied to at every twist and turn of the last 5 years.
And what Peter Hain says is exactly right in every aspect IMHO.
Correct - that's precisely what I meant Dutch..... without any spin.
Then I agree with both yourself & DU.
I haven't read that that thread but I just wanted to emphasis that it is not leaving the EU or Brexit per se which has caused recent problems, for fishermen, seafood exporters or in Ireland - it's Johnson's answer to it and subsequent deal.
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It's far deeper than Johnson.
The NI problems were inevitable once May blithely announced in her Lancaster House speech that the Brexit vote meant we had to leave the SM and CU. And she did that because she knew anything less would tear the Tory party apart.
And that's the core of the issue. Whether it is through ignorance or deliberate choice, a generation of senior Tories have put career and party success above the effect on the country.
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Billy, I know you don't believe me or at least others on here don't, but I was one of the 48% and absolutely refute your idea that that is not a mandate to leave, in fact since that date I have changed my stance and would definitely vote to leave if a another vote was taken and believe that many more would do the same especially after the shameful way the EU are acting towards the UK since the vote.
Overturning that vote would have caused a lot more trouble than the resulting problems and in my mind could well have ended up in civil unrest in some parts of the country.
Far from making people like yourself's blood boil it could well have ended up with blood spilt.
As far as NI is concerned the EU have used the situation there for their own selfish means, and may come to rue the day if the bombs start flying about in Brussels.
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Selby.
1) On the mandate, go back and read what I wrote.
2) On the EU "using the NI situation", just turn off Talk Radio, engage your brain and tell me which part of the following sentence you disagree with.
"When the UK Govt chose, unilaterally, to leave the SM and CU, with Ireland staying in the SM and CU, the only possible outcomes were a trade border between NI and Ireland or a trade border between GB and NI."
Once you've accepted the correctness of that sentence, then ask yourself where on earth you got this childish certainty that "the EU have used the situation for their own selfish means" .
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Billy, I know you don't believe me or at least others on here don't, but I was one of the 48% and absolutely refute your idea that that is not a mandate to leave, in fact since that date I have changed my stance and would definitely vote to leave if a another vote was taken and believe that many more would do the same especially after the shameful way the EU are acting towards the UK since the vote.
Overturning that vote would have caused a lot more trouble than the resulting problems and in my mind could well have ended up in civil unrest in some parts of the country.
Far from making people like yourself's blood boil it could well have ended up with blood spilt.
As far as NI is concerned the EU have used the situation there for their own selfish means, and may come to rue the day if the bombs start flying about in Brussels.
It wasn't the EU who promised the DUP there would be no border in the Irish Sea - and then put a border in the Irish Sea. For his own selfish ends.
Six days it took for the Prime Minister of the UK to make a comment on serious rioting in a UK city. 55 UK police officers injured, a bus hijacked and burnt out, petrol bombs and fireworks. Six days and all he can do is one tweet telling them to stop being naughty. Get over there you lazy ***** start acting like a Prime Minister and sort your mess out.
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Sure you really want Johnson over there sorting it out?
His usual strategy for sorting out a mess he's caused by deception and lying is divorce.
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indeed, from the earlier twitter link ..............
https://mobile.twitter.com/syrpis/status/1154286327699005440
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Sorry Billy, you and the disciples can stamp your feet and bang your head against a brick wall all you want that percentage not to be in the EU is getting wider every day, partly because of people like you and the disciples harping on and on how great life was under the EU and nobody listening its become just a noise in the background buddy.
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dunno, dunno anyone that said that
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Sorry Billy, you and the disciples can stamp your feet and bang your head against a brick wall all you want that percentage not to be in the EU is getting wider every day, partly because of people like you and the disciples harping on and on how great life was under the EU and nobody listening its become just a noise in the background buddy.
Can anyone else hear a constant droning noise already?
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Looking at the coverage it seems to be early teens causing all the trouble. Would they be old enough to remember the earlier Troubles and would they understand the effect of Brexit?
It looks to me like pent up anti social behaviour rather than full on rioting
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Selby.
Once again, you're arguing like a child.
We are talking now about the CONSEQUENCES of Brexit that are unfolding before your eyes. If you would open them.
I'll ask again. Do you accept that the presence of a border between GB and NI, or one between NI and Ireland was inevitable once WE, Britain, our Govt had chosen to interpret the 2016 vote as a mandate for leaving the SM and CU?
No need for your playground blather. Just a straight yes or no. Be grown up enough to engage with the consequences, rather than just throw stupid insults around.
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Looking at the coverage it seems to be early teens causing all the trouble. Would they be old enough to remember the earlier Troubles and would they understand the effect of Brexit?
It looks to me like pent up anti social behaviour rather than full on rioting
It is widely accepted that these youths are being manipulated by older more sinister figures.
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OT from Ireland talk (and this thread), but there is a horse running in the 14.20 at Aintree (about 5 mins) called Belfast Banter.... what's the chances of that running well...?
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OT from Ireland talk (and this thread), but there is a horse running in the 14.20 at Aintree (about 5 mins) called Belfast Banter.... what's the chances of that running well...?
Only bloody won didn't it - had a small E/W at 12/1, so I'm now £14 richer......... love the Irish I do :rolleyes:
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Looking at the coverage it seems to be early teens causing all the trouble. Would they be old enough to remember the earlier Troubles and would they understand the effect of Brexit?
It looks to me like pent up anti social behaviour rather than full on rioting
It is widely accepted that these youths are being manipulated by older more sinister figures.
Billy Hutchinson, former Loyalist paramilitary, now leader of the PUP, interviewed on Channel 4 last night
https://www.channel4.com/news/politicians-must-prove-violence-doesnt-work-says-unionist-leader-in-northern-ireland
Naomi Long, Minister in NI Executive on same programme:
https://www.channel4.com/news/i-hoped-children-would-never-see-it-again-ni-justice-minister-on-belfast-violence
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Funny how on the coronavirus thread we have got to over 350 pages of the same people slagging off the governments reaction to the pandemic some next to having a break down, and on this thread not championing the same government for saving thousands of lives getting us out of the EU with their absolutely pathetic and poor response to administering the vaccine programme in the Eu which is shambolic and is causing lives to be lost.
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Selby can you explain saving lives? 127k dead!
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If things carry on in Europe the way they are going quite a few countries on population overtook us by Christmas head to head on population and quite a few are quickly catching us up now, and that is if they report on the numbers the same like for like way we do, which in some instances I doubt and am sceptical of, France for one.
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Funny how on the coronavirus thread we have got to over 350 pages of the same people slagging off the governments reaction to the pandemic some next to having a break down, and on this thread not championing the same government for saving thousands of lives getting us out of the EU with their absolutely pathetic and poor response to administering the vaccine programme in the Eu which is shambolic and is causing lives to be lost.
Which EU vaccination is that Selby? I was under the impression that individual countries were carrying out their own vaccintion programmes?
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Wilts, Italy has once again gone in front of us with the number of deaths per million population this week, Bulgaria, Slovenia, Belgium, Hungary, Poland are in a number of countries on the continent and in the EU that have and still are dealing with the pandemic poorly conveniently not commented on on here when pointing the finger at our leadership.
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Ah but of course our shower did everything they could, but to do what?
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Apparently, someone I know who lives in Austria claims that the media there is keeping a very low profile on the success of the UK vaccine roll-out.
Hmm, I thought. There are a few of us here in the UK who are doing that too!
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Apparently, someone I know who lives in Austria claims that the media there is keeping a very low profile on the success of the UK vaccine roll-out.
Hmm, I thought. There are a few of us here in the UK who are doing that too!
They probably report the situation in the UK about as often as the UK media report the situation in Austria.
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Apparently, they reported on the situation in the UK frequently when our daily death rates were high, prior to the vaccine roll-out, but have kept a low profile since.
.....Just like a few of us here in the UK are doing!
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Well Wilts, if they do it as individual countries there is quite a few who are not very good at it, but what they seem to be excellent about is stamping their feet and moaning at us about the fact that it is the Kent variant from the UK that is causing them problems.
Another thing we have been better at making than them and after all the Lord did say share, which it looks like we have done.
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Some of the posters on here should really have a good look inside the mind of your average Mr Joe Loyalist in NI before they start throwing accusations around at people who voted leave in a democratic referendum
Give this set of lunatics one inch and they will drive every Catholic out of Ulster within the day and that's just the DUP never mind the meat heads in the Shankhill .
The power share broke down in Storemont years ago .
It's gone on for over 300 years .
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I was sure the subjugation of Ireland started around the 12th century
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Some of the posters on here should really have a good look inside the mind of your average Mr Joe Loyalist in NI before they start throwing accusations around at people who voted leave in a democratic referendum
Give this set of lunatics one inch and they will drive every Catholic out of Ulster within the day and that's just the DUP never mind the meat heads in the Shankhill .
The power share broke down in Storemont years ago .
It's gone on for over 300 years .
What stage of grief is denial?
The Leave approach to Northern Ireland seems to have gone through the following stages:
1) Dismiss any predicted problems as "Project Fear".
2) Claim there will be some technological solution to the border issue.
3) Get really mad that as trivial a problem as the Irish border could be holding up Brexit.
4) Insist that no British Prime Minister would ever sign an agreement that put a border between GB and NI.
5) Sign an agreement that puts a border between GB and NI.
6) Insist that the agreement does not require a border between GB and NI.
7) On Brexit Day, impose a border between GB and NI.
8) Scream at the EU for the disgraceful way they have handled the Irish border problem.
9) Agree with the Unionists that the fact there is a border between GB and NI is a major problem that needs to be rectified.
And now, Tyke has
10) Blame it all on the Northern Irish for always fighting anyway.
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Some of the posters on here should really have a good look inside the mind of your average Mr Joe Loyalist in NI before they start throwing accusations around at people who voted leave in a democratic referendum
Give this set of lunatics one inch and they will drive every Catholic out of Ulster within the day and that's just the DUP never mind the meat heads in the Shankhill .
The power share broke down in Storemont years ago .
It's gone on for over 300 years .
Project Fear. You won, get over it.
Some other people ought to read up on their Irish history before hitting send.
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Statement from the Loyalist Communities Council (LCC) an umberella organisation of loyalist paramilitary groups:
“The LCC can confirm that none of their associated groups have been involved either directly or indirectly in the violence witnessed in recent days,” it said.
But the LCC said there had been a “spectacular collective failure” to understand their anger over Brexit and other issues, and the border protocol must be renegotiated. Critics of the departure deal’s Northern Ireland protocol say a border is in effect in the Irish Sea, leaving unionists feeling betrayed.
“We have repeatedly urged HM Government, political leaders and Institutions to take seriously our warnings of the dangerous consequences of imposing this hard border on us and the need for earnest dialogue to resolve matters. We reiterate that message now.”
Sorry but this is directly the consequence of the deal Johnson negotiated, signed, stood in a General Election on and rushed through Parliament withought proper scrutiny. If you don't beiieve me - read the above again
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/09/northern-ireland-police-say-paramilitaries-not-behind-recent-violence
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Some of the posters on here should really have a good look inside the mind of your average Mr Joe Loyalist in NI before they start throwing accusations around at people who voted leave in a democratic referendum
Give this set of lunatics one inch and they will drive every Catholic out of Ulster within the day and that's just the DUP never mind the meat heads in the Shankhill .
The power share broke down in Storemont years ago .
It's gone on for over 300 years .
Project Fear. You won, get over it.
Some other people ought to read up on their Irish history before hitting send.
Agreed wilts.
It is all on google.
Easy enough to find.
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I would start with a search ‘Plantations of Ireland’
And ‘Ireland, a History’ by Robert Kee is a brilliant book
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And the good news for those Brexiteers who wanted to reduce the UK economy keeps on coming...
J.P. Morgan, one of the world's largest banks, looking to relocate all European business out of London:
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1380156842307899392
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We're all getting vaccinated.
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We're all getting vaccinated.
27000+ are not
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Who are they then Syd?
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here's a clue RR
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/18/delaying-englands-winter-lockdown-caused-up-to-27000-extra-covid-deaths
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So your + was just another 100,000 who aren't getting the jab! You need to do better go and stand in the corner
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The 40% drop in Business with the EU in January looks as though it was a temporary blip due maimly to stocking up before the event, with Business back roughly to normal pre Brexit levels, and Britain booming with the highest job vacancy levels since 2015 according to reports.
What we need to do now is squeeze the pips and keep the imports up but the public buy alternative hopefully local or alternatively produce from non member countries and leave the EU stuff on the shelves, and keep a ban on holidays to the main continental popular holiday spots such as Spain, Greece and Italy etc.
We have found at least five products in our weekly shop that are EU produce we normally bought that we have replaced with produce from either the UK or other countries often better quality and in some cases far cheaper.
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The 40% drop in Business with the EU in January looks as though it was a temporary blip due maimly to stocking up before the event, with Business back roughly to normal pre Brexit levels, and Britain booming with the highest job vacancy levels since 2015 according to reports.
What we need to do now is squeeze the pips and keep the imports up but the public buy alternative hopefully local or alternatively produce from non member countries and leave the EU stuff on the shelves, and keep a ban on holidays to the main continental popular holiday spots such as Spain, Greece and Italy etc.
We have found at least five products in our weekly shop that are EU produce we normally bought that we have replaced with produce from either the UK or other countries often better quality and in some cases far cheaper.
Where did you hear that, Rupert Murdoch Radio?
Because its not shown here, tracked to 31st March:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2021/03/uk-economic-recovery-tracker-effects-brexit-and-covid-19-jobs-house-prices-trade
If you are banning 750 mill potential tourists from entering this country you aren't going to be very popular among business that rely on them. Where do you suggest you make up their shortfall, China and Russia?
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Talk Radio Wilts, the fastest growing Radio Station in the world Wilts, because the news isnt buried like other radio stations if it doesn't dish the UK like the BBC.
I am not bothered about being popular, and if tested and on their passport coming into the country they had had the vaccine and that would be a minimum requirement. I would not stop tourists, but would keep the red light system and ban those from countries where the infection rates were considered too high.
I would also use our tourist industry to be selective as to where our own tourists could go and spend their money as well, and again would ban holidays to countries where the infection rate were considered too high, which at the moment rules out most continental popular tourist destinations, people would have to find alternative destinations.
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Thought so - you keep listening to Rupert Murdochs' radio station - it appears to be as truthful as his newspapers.
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So in your world Wilts the figures are right when they show the UK in a bad light, and when they are decent they are wrong, well yeh buddy right enjoy your bitter world this evening.
Just a tip for you Wilts if you can read the words with more than three letters, Read the Telegraph.
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So in your world Wilts the figures are right when they show the UK in a bad light, and when they are decent they are wrong, well yeh buddy right enjoy your bitter world this evening.
Well if you can show me where these decent figures are I will believe them! In my world real things exist.
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So in your world Wilts the figures are right when they show the UK in a bad light, and when they are decent they are wrong, well yeh buddy right enjoy your bitter world this evening.
Well if you can show me where these decent figures are I will believe them! In my world real things exist.
Over 32 million vaccinated.
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Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
https://www.euronews.com/2021/04/09/covid-19-vaccinations-in-europe-which-countries-are-leading-the-way
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Great effort - shows what can be done when the professionals are supported, trusted and left to get on it.
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Great effort indeed.
Although if it hadn’t gone well no doubt it would have been the fault of the government eh.
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And the good news for those Brexiteers who wanted to reduce the UK economy keeps on coming...
J.P. Morgan, one of the world's largest banks, looking to relocate all European business out of London:
https://twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1380156842307899392
The headline you post is impactive. The reality not so.
JP Morgan may one day move all of its EU-focused business out of London and into Europe, the investment bank's boss has said.
Jamie Dimon said any such move would be "many years out" but warned that London will need to “adapt and reinvent itself” after Brexit.
JPMorgan's chairman and chief executive opined that “few winners are likely to emerge” from the UK's decision to leave the EU which will make financial services fragment across multiple cities including Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin.
In his annual letter to shareholders, Mr Dimon wrote: "In the short run (ie, the next few years), this cannot possibly be a positive for the United Kingdom’s GDP – the effect after that will be completely based upon whether the United Kingdom has a comprehensive and well executed strategic plan that is acceptable to Europe." (Source: independent)
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Yep, it's great that the government chose not to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme earlier this year, saying that it could secure doses more quickly itself.
Labour’s policy and Keir Starmer's own personal choice was to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme, claiming that Brexit will actually make the rollout of the UK’s vaccination programme more difficult.
Great decision by the government.
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It was a great decision and the vaccine roll out is being done well,
team UK scores goal after 10 years.
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Great effort indeed.
Although if it hadn’t gone well no doubt it would have been the fault of the government eh.
Er, not necessarily.
If despite all the support etc the professionals messed it up then we’d have to question them why.
If on the other hand it didn’t go well due to government lack of support, trust and faith in the professionals, then of course the government - any government - should be held to account.
Fairly straight forward really.
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Great effort indeed.
Although if it hadn’t gone well no doubt it would have been the fault of the government eh.
Er, not necessarily.
If despite all the support etc the professionals messed it up then we’d have to question them why.
If on the other hand it didn’t go well due to government lack of support, trust and faith in the professionals, then of course the government - any government - should be held to account.
Fairly straight forward really.
With respect sir, I think that our Labour supporters in the main, would have gone to town on the government whatever had caused the vaccine roll out to fail.
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Neutrals don't appear to have to commit just ask questions, but don't take my word for it look at the lack of answers ...... any time ......... how does one vote neutral?
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Neutrals don't appear to have to commit just ask questions, but don't take my word for it look at the lack of answers ...... any time ......... how does one vote neutral?
Sydney – strange as it may seem I actually did in a real and positive selective sense vote ‘neutral’ in the last General Election!
It is of course in the tangled web of Northern Ireland politics that I cast my vote, and maybe that gives me a chance to give a brief overview given the recent violence here.
All political parties here are expected to make clear their stance on the biggest issue of all, namely Unionism (i.e wishing to remain part of the UK or Nationalism/Republicanism (wishing to become part of the Republic of Ireland). Parties may take a ‘neutral’ stance. On the Unionist Side there are the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) and UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) and smaller parties like the PUP (Progressive Unionist Party) and TUV (Traditional Unionist Voice). On the Republican side are Sinn Fein and SDLP (Social Democratic and Labour Party). The two main parties that are ‘neutral’ are the Alliance Party and the Greens.
The Labour Party does not field candidates in NI, and the Conservatives do very little and with no real prospect of an MP over here.
I decided as a non-indigenous recent arrival here, that for the time at least I would vote for a ‘neutral’ party (Alliance as they are the largest neutral party).
When the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was signed in 1998 it was as a result of the so called Hume-Adams talks, although great credit must also go to David Trimble as well. The great John Hume was the leader of the SDLP, the moderate republican party who always condemn all violence out of hand. Sinn Fein on the other hand are of course highly tied to the republican paramilitaries. David Trimble was the leader of the moderate UUP, the Unionist moderates who also condemn all violence while the DUP have links to the Unionist paramilitaries. In the initial post GFA NI Assembly in Stormont it was the moderate UUP and SDLP who were by far the largest parties. However with the need to keep paramilitaries within the process this has shifted over time, and the centre moderates have been marginalised by the NI voters with power shifting to Sinn Fein and DUP. The political centre is now a very sparsely populated place here in NI, with the Alliance Party now having an increased role compared with 1998. IMHO this is a symptom of the volatility here, and explains (but not justifies) the strong reactions.
Also IMHO it was a colossal blunder by the DUP to back Brexit, presumably preferring to be allied with the Conservative party, rather than thinking through the obvious and all too clear consequences for Northern Ireland.
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I tip my hat to your knowledge Dutch, you have certainly added to mine. Your last para IMHO says it all .............. for everyone in the UK.
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Neutrals don't appear to have to commit just ask questions, but don't take my word for it look at the lack of answers ...... any time ......... how does one vote neutral?
Sydney – strange as it may seem I actually did in a real and positive selective sense vote ‘neutral’ in the last General Election!
It is of course in the tangled web of Northern Ireland politics that I cast my vote, and maybe that gives me a chance to give a brief overview given the recent violence here.
All political parties here are expected to make clear their stance on the biggest issue of all, namely Unionism (i.e wishing to remain part of the UK or Nationalism/Republicanism (wishing to become part of the Republic of Ireland). Parties may take a ‘neutral’ stance. On the Unionist Side there are the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) and UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) and smaller parties like the PUP (Progressive Unionist Party) and TUV (Traditional Unionist Voice). On the Republican side are Sinn Fein and SDLP (Social Democratic and Labour Party). The two main parties that are ‘neutral’ are the Alliance Party and the Greens.
The Labour Party does not field candidates in NI, and the Conservatives do very little and with no real prospect of an MP over here.
I decided as a non-indigenous recent arrival here, that for the time at least I would vote for a ‘neutral’ party (Alliance as they are the largest neutral party).
When the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was signed in 1998 it was as a result if the so called Hume-Adams talks, although great credit must also go to David Trimble as well. The great John Hume was the leader of the SDLP, the moderate republican party who always condemn all violence out of hand. Sinn Fein on the other hand are of course highly tied to the republican paramilitaries. David Trimble was the leader of the moderate UUP, the Unionist moderates who also condemn all violence while the DUP have links to the Unionist paramilitaries. In the initial post GFA NI Assembly in Stormont it was the moderate UUP and SDLP who were by far the largest parties. However with the need to keep paramilitaries within the process this has shifted over time, and the centre moderates have been marginalised by the NI voters with power shifting to Sinn Fein and DUP. The political centre is now a very sparsely populated place here in NI, with the Alliance Party now having an increased role compared with 1998. IMHO this is a symptom of the volatility here, and explains (but not justifies) the strong reactions.
Also IMHO it was a colossal blunder by the DUP to back Brexit, presumably preferring to be allied with the Conservative party, rather than thinking through the obvious and all too clear consequences.
I don’t think it was a blunder by the DUP, I thunk it was a calculated act, to create division, I also think Arlene Foster is a nasty piece of work
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Also a possibility Filo, but what did she and her party expect to gain?
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I don’t think it was a blunder by the DUP, I thunk it was a calculated act, to create division, I also think Arlene Foster is a nasty piece of work
I'm not keen on her either..... I believe her upbringing was directly affected by IRA incidents and that has formed her politics. Not a lady I would like to meet in a dark alley though..
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DU
Excellent post.
My take on the last paragraph: The DUP is currently run by some very small-minded people. Ian Paisley, for all his faults, saw the bigger picture. I'm not sure Foster sees anything beyond immediate sectarian advantage. I think they supported Brexit because they thought it would weaken ties with Ireland and strengthen ties with GB. That they could misread the situation so very badly in both ways is an indication of what political pygmies they are.
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DU
Excellent post.
My take on the last paragraph: The DUP is currently run by some very small-minded people. Ian Paisley, for all his faults, saw the bigger picture. I'm not sure Foster sees anything beyond immediate sectarian advantage. I think they supported Brexit because they thought it would weaken ties with Ireland and strengthen ties with GB. That they could misread the situation so very badly in both ways is an indication of what political pygmies they are.
I agree BST. Your take has a real feeling of likely reality, a mixture of blinkered small mindedness mixed with stubbornness and entrenchment in the past.
We need true heirs of Hume, Trimble, Paisley (Snr) and even McGuinness to step forward, and I see absolutely no candidates.
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Yep, it's great that the government chose not to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme earlier this year, saying that it could secure doses more quickly itself.
Labour’s policy and Keir Starmer's own personal choice was to participate in the joint EU vaccine purchasing scheme, claiming that Brexit will actually make the rollout of the UK’s vaccination programme more difficult.
Great decision by the government.
The purchasing was nothing to do with being in or out of the EU - according to Boris Johnson it was down to 'greed and capitalism'.
And the vaccination programme was completely the opposite as following the failure of the Serco Test & Trace they gave the organisation & delivery of the vaccination programme over to the public sector via the NHS - but rarely mention that when taking the credit.
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Also a possibility Filo, but what did she and her party expect to gain?
She represents her base and it would have been extremly difficult, if not impossible for her to do otherwise, or she would have been out - and replaced with someone even more hardline. Don't forget the DUP were always against the GFA too.
There is also the not inconsiderable matter of £1.2 billion she gained from Theresa May. If only that had been spent making life better for people on the Shankhill Estates etc.
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Also a possibility Filo, but what did she and her party expect to gain?
She represents her base and it would have been extremly difficult, if not impossible for her to do otherwise, or she would have been out - and replaced with someone even more hardline. Don't forget the DUP were always against the GFA too.
There is also the not inconsiderable matter of £1.2 billion she gained from Theresa May. If only that had been spent making life better for people on the Shankhill Estates etc.
Good points Wilts. Another point sometimes forgotten with regards to current outbreak of violence is that many of the paramilitaries have now morphed down into criminal gangs and the police have very recently launched a number of successful operations against some of the loyalist ones.
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Dutch,
If religious differences in Ireland were to disappear tomorrow do you think much would change....?
To the layman (me) it seems that much of the last 5 or 6 decades of troubles have largely been a direct result of organised gangland criminal activity on both sides - including drugs trafficking, tax and excise fraud (on cigs/fuel/alcohol), organised immigration crime. etc. I've two good mates who did numerous tours out there in the 90's and always tell me illegal gangland activity was rife back then, and suggest it is probably the same now.....
Is religion just a cover for what is essentially mafia level activities?
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Neutrals don't appear to have to commit just ask questions, but don't take my word for it look at the lack of answers ...... any time ......... how does one vote neutral?
Sydney – strange as it may seem I actually did in a real and positive selective sense vote ‘neutral’ in the last General Election!
It is of course in the tangled web of Northern Ireland politics that I cast my vote, and maybe that gives me a chance to give a brief overview given the recent violence here.
All political parties here are expected to make clear their stance on the biggest issue of all, namely Unionism (i.e wishing to remain part of the UK or Nationalism/Republicanism (wishing to become part of the Republic of Ireland). Parties may take a ‘neutral’ stance. On the Unionist Side there are the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) and UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) and smaller parties like the PUP (Progressive Unionist Party) and TUV (Traditional Unionist Voice). On the Republican side are Sinn Fein and SDLP (Social Democratic and Labour Party). The two main parties that are ‘neutral’ are the Alliance Party and the Greens.
The Labour Party does not field candidates in NI, and the Conservatives do very little and with no real prospect of an MP over here.
I decided as a non-indigenous recent arrival here, that for the time at least I would vote for a ‘neutral’ party (Alliance as they are the largest neutral party).
When the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was signed in 1998 it was as a result if the so called Hume-Adams talks, although great credit must also go to David Trimble as well. The great John Hume was the leader of the SDLP, the moderate republican party who always condemn all violence out of hand. Sinn Fein on the other hand are of course highly tied to the republican paramilitaries. David Trimble was the leader of the moderate UUP, the Unionist moderates who also condemn all violence while the DUP have links to the Unionist paramilitaries. In the initial post GFA NI Assembly in Stormont it was the moderate UUP and SDLP who were by far the largest parties. However with the need to keep paramilitaries within the process this has shifted over time, and the centre moderates have been marginalised by the NI voters with power shifting to Sinn Fein and DUP. The political centre is now a very sparsely populated place here in NI, with the Alliance Party now having an increased role compared with 1998. IMHO this is a symptom of the volatility here, and explains (but not justifies) the strong reactions.
Also IMHO it was a colossal blunder by the DUP to back Brexit, presumably preferring to be allied with the Conservative party, rather than thinking through the obvious and all too clear consequences.
I don’t think it was a blunder by the DUP, I thunk it was a calculated act, to create division, I also think Arlene Foster is a nasty piece of work
As far as i'm aware she's never blown anyone up though, unlike...
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As far as i'm aware she's never blown anyone up though, unlike...
There may have been some blowing though...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56747947
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Dutch,
If religious differences in Ireland were to disappear tomorrow do you think much would change....?
To the layman (me) it seems that much of the last 5 or 6 decades of troubles have largely been a direct result of organised gangland criminal activity on both sides - including drugs trafficking, tax and excise fraud (on cigs/fuel/alcohol), organised immigration crime. etc. I've two good mates who did numerous tours out there in the 90's and always tell me illegal gangland activity was rife back then, and suggest it is probably the same now.....
Is religion just a cover for what is essentially mafia level activities?
I am (unusually over here) a largely unbiassed observer, and my opinion/interpretation MM, for what it is worth, is that the Religion is almost 100% aligned with whether a person over here wishes Northern Ireland to remain in the mainly Protestant UK or become part of the mainly Catholic Republic of Ireland. The history of Ireland is dominated by ‘plantation’ whereby British/English settlers were sent over to own land taken from the indigenous Irish by force, usually military. The Irish naturally felt oppressed and wronged. In the aftermath of the 1916 revolution when Northern Ireland was created in 1921, mainly as a place for the British/English to continue, the Irish Catholics here were thought of and in all practical senses were second class citizens. Priority for jobs, voting rights and other social aspects gave unequal advantages to Protestants, and the communities were also mainly separated rather than integrated in their lives, certainly education was separated. This gave rise to the Civil Rights unrest in the early sixties which eventually turned into the Troubles when the British did nothing to redress the inequalities. At this point the republican paramilitaries gained extraordinary support from their communities, and the loyalist paramilitaries grew likewise in response. At this point, IMHO, it was all politically motivated with criminal aspects very much secondary. After the GFA, when via Sinn Fein and DUP the paramilitaries have a political voice, and the successful peace has been enjoyed by all, the paramilitaries lost most of their community support, but the hard-core criminal activities carried on and have IMHO now become a major factor.
As I said, just my take.
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Neutrals don't appear to have to commit just ask questions, but don't take my word for it look at the lack of answers ...... any time ......... how does one vote neutral?
Sydney – strange as it may seem I actually did in a real and positive selective sense vote ‘neutral’ in the last General Election!
It is of course in the tangled web of Northern Ireland politics that I cast my vote, and maybe that gives me a chance to give a brief overview given the recent violence here.
All political parties here are expected to make clear their stance on the biggest issue of all, namely Unionism (i.e wishing to remain part of the UK or Nationalism/Republicanism (wishing to become part of the Republic of Ireland). Parties may take a ‘neutral’ stance. On the Unionist Side there are the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) and UUP (Ulster Unionist Party) and smaller parties like the PUP (Progressive Unionist Party) and TUV (Traditional Unionist Voice). On the Republican side are Sinn Fein and SDLP (Social Democratic and Labour Party). The two main parties that are ‘neutral’ are the Alliance Party and the Greens.
The Labour Party does not field candidates in NI, and the Conservatives do very little and with no real prospect of an MP over here.
I decided as a non-indigenous recent arrival here, that for the time at least I would vote for a ‘neutral’ party (Alliance as they are the largest neutral party).
When the Good Friday Agreement (GFA) was signed in 1998 it was as a result if the so called Hume-Adams talks, although great credit must also go to David Trimble as well. The great John Hume was the leader of the SDLP, the moderate republican party who always condemn all violence out of hand. Sinn Fein on the other hand are of course highly tied to the republican paramilitaries. David Trimble was the leader of the moderate UUP, the Unionist moderates who also condemn all violence while the DUP have links to the Unionist paramilitaries. In the initial post GFA NI Assembly in Stormont it was the moderate UUP and SDLP who were by far the largest parties. However with the need to keep paramilitaries within the process this has shifted over time, and the centre moderates have been marginalised by the NI voters with power shifting to Sinn Fein and DUP. The political centre is now a very sparsely populated place here in NI, with the Alliance Party now having an increased role compared with 1998. IMHO this is a symptom of the volatility here, and explains (but not justifies) the strong reactions.
Also IMHO it was a colossal blunder by the DUP to back Brexit, presumably preferring to be allied with the Conservative party, rather than thinking through the obvious and all too clear consequences.
I don’t think it was a blunder by the DUP, I thunk it was a calculated act, to create division, I also think Arlene Foster is a nasty piece of work
As far as i'm aware she's never blown anyone up though, unlike...
It’s rumoured she met with loyalist paramilitaries, just before the present riots started on the Shankill Road in loyalist areas, she probably has others doing her bidding
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I heard someone on the radio the other week talking about the GFA and how it was intended to bring both 'peace and reconciliation'. Their comment was along the lines of 'it managed the peace but never started on the reconciliation' and that is why there are some parts of NI still as divided as they always have been.
As this bloke sums up his piece with:
Working-class children are being preyed upon by criminal gangs with a vested interest in division. That really should be unthinkable for everyone.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/14/belfast-riots-brexit-good-friday-peace-deal
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A lot of hand wringing going on atm and a ruing of missed opportunities, the reminder of the queen consorting with 'terrorists' would hit a raw nerve too with quite a few in these parts.
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I heard the statement on the trade figures by the times correspondent on the radio at ^-30 am that morning.
I think you are wrong in your statement, he said that in a survey of companies 40% of companies trading with the EU had reported that exports to the EU had fallen in value.
He also stated that 20% of companies in the survey had reported that the value of their exports to the EU had increased and they were mainly the larger companies in the survey.
The overall value of exports in the time period because big business were generally doing well, was near comparable with figures before Brexit.
Ignoring his full text of his report makes good headlines for the remainers who read the guardian I suppose, makes them feel better after a long run of defeats.
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I heard the statement on the trade figures by the times correspondent on the radio at ^-30 am that morning.
I think you are wrong in your statement, he said that in a survey of companies 40% of companies trading with the EU had reported that exports to the EU had fallen in value.
He also stated that 20% of companies in the survey had reported that the value of their exports to the EU had increased and they were mainly the larger companies in the survey.
The overall value of exports in the time period because big business were generally doing well, was near comparable with figures before Brexit.
Ignoring his full text of his report makes good headlines for the remainers who read the guardian I suppose, makes them feel better after a long run of defeats.
Eh, who's wrong in whose statement?
These are the figures btw:
In February, exports to the EU increased by £3.7 billion (46.6 percent) after a record fall of £5.7 billion (negative 42 percent) in January, figures reported by the Office for National Statistics showed.
However, exports were still significantly lower in February, compared to 2020, before the end of the Brexit transition period. Imports from the EU also picked up, though only slightly, increasing by £1.2 billion in February after a record drop of £6.7 billion in January.
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-goods-trade-with-eu-signals-recovery/
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/february2021
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And the good news, for those who want to see a smaller economy, keeps on coming:
City of London Brexit hit worse than expected says recent study:
Over 400 financial firms in Britain have shifted activities, staff and a combined £1 trillion ($1.4 trillion) in assets to hubs in the European Union due to Brexit, with more expected to follow:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-finance-idUKKBN2C22ZB
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And the good news, for those who want to see a smaller economy, keeps on coming:
City of London Brexit hit worse than expected says recent study:
Over 400 financial firms in Britain have shifted activities, staff and a combined £1 trillion ($1.4 trillion) in assets to hubs in the European Union due to Brexit, with more expected to follow:
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-finance-
And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
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No, but, yeah but, no but, yeah but, no.....
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And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
It doesn't say they'll be opening offices at all.
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And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
It doesn't say they'll be opening offices at all.
The first paragraph in the article says
“About 1000 EU finance firms are eying up opening offices in the UK for the first time”.
Perhaps you know better than the BBC Glyn?
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This sounds like really good news HA, any reason they didn't make the move before Brexit?
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And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
It doesn't say they'll be opening offices at all.
The first paragraph in the article says
“About 1000 EU finance firms are eying up opening offices in the UK for the first time”.
Perhaps you know better than the BBC Glyn?
That is opinion, not fact, and it isn't even the BBC's opinion at that. Or perhaps you know better, eh?
The only fact the report contains is that '1,500 money managers, payment firms and insurers have applied for permission to continue operating in the UK after Brexit.'
'Continue operating' means they are already operating in the UK. They're not businesses new to the UK. Even if they're foreign companies that didn't have a physical presence in the UK before Brexit they won't need to have a physical presence afterwards, all they need is a UK-recognised legal entity to order to conduct their UK business, even if their entire workforce is outside the UK and stays outside the UK.
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And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
It doesn't say they'll be opening offices at all.
The first paragraph in the article says
“About 1000 EU finance firms are eying up opening offices in the UK for the first time”.
Perhaps you know better than the BBC Glyn?
That is opinion, not fact, and it isn't even the BBC's opinion at that. Or perhaps you know better, eh?
The only fact the report contains is that '1,500 money managers, payment firms and insurers have applied for permission to continue operating in the UK after Brexit.'
'Continue operating' means they are already operating in the UK. They're not businesses new to the UK. Even if they're foreign companies that didn't have a physical presence in the UK before Brexit they won't need to have a physical presence afterwards, all they need is a UK-recognised legal entity to order to conduct their UK business, even if their entire workforce is outside the UK and stays outside the UK.
I take it back Glyn..,you clearly don’t know better than the BBC.
“Around two-thirds had no prior physical operations in Britain.”
“Many of these business will be opening offices for the first time.”
Actually, we could have a bit of fun with this. Maybe we could run a book based around how our remainer friends will spin this good news to bad?
I’ll give you odds of:
2-1 The whole story is bullshit
3-1 The story doesn’t actually mean what it clearly says
6-1 Businesses are moving to London, but they’re not the type of businesses we want here thank you very much
10-1 The story is just someone’s opinion without any basis in fact
50-1 Herbert anchovy is an ignorant, racist simpleton who is likely the bas**rd son of Nigel Farage and Julie Hartley-Brewer and believes any old bullshit written by the right wing media?
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And for the benefit of equilibrium within the debate, let’s not forget the 1000+ finance businesses who’ve said that they’ll be opening new offices in London post Brexit.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56155531.amp
It doesn't say they'll be opening offices at all.
The first paragraph in the article says
“About 1000 EU finance firms are eying up opening offices in the UK for the first time”.
Perhaps you know better than the BBC Glyn?
That is opinion, not fact, and it isn't even the BBC's opinion at that. Or perhaps you know better, eh?
The only fact the report contains is that '1,500 money managers, payment firms and insurers have applied for permission to continue operating in the UK after Brexit.'
'Continue operating' means they are already operating in the UK. They're not businesses new to the UK. Even if they're foreign companies that didn't have a physical presence in the UK before Brexit they won't need to have a physical presence afterwards, all they need is a UK-recognised legal entity to order to conduct their UK business, even if their entire workforce is outside the UK and stays outside the UK.
I take it back Glyn..,you clearly don’t know better than the BBC.
“Around two-thirds had no prior physical operations in Britain.”
“Many of these business will be opening offices for the first time.”
Actually, we could have a bit of fun with this. Maybe we could run a book based around how our remainer friends will spin this good news to bad?
I’ll give you odds of:
2-1 The whole story is bullshit
3-1 The story doesn’t actually mean what it clearly says
6-1 Businesses are moving to London, but they’re not the type of businesses we want here thank you very much
10-1 The story is just someone’s opinion without any basis in fact
50-1 Herbert anchovy is an ignorant, racist simpleton who is likely the bas**rd son of Nigel Farage and Julie Hartley-Brewer and believes any old bullshit written by the right wing media?
“Around two-thirds had no prior physical operations in Britain.”
And they don't need to change that, as I explained but you couldn't be bothered to read.
“Many of these business will be opening offices for the first time.”
Bovill OPINION. Not FACT.
The main fact at the centre of the story isn't bullshit. The Bovill opinion that makes up 90% of what surrounds it possibly is, though. I can't think of any conceivable way that a private consultancy firm could know the intentions of all of the applicants applying to continue operations, can you? Could it possibly be, you know, a guesstimated OPINION?
There is only one fact in that report, as I said. The rest is all 'could be, might be, is suggested' conjecture and not fact at all.
PS You missed out the evens bet of 'Herbert Anchovy just read the first line of the BBC article and didn't bother thinking about the rest of it'.
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Touché Glyn. Excellent little comeback at the end there!
Fact based on assessment of the feedback provided by the organisations consulted? It seems quite clear to me Glyn. Look, I’m long enough in the tooth to understand the lay of the land on this forum....good news Brexit stories are b*llocks, bad news stories about Brexit are fact. I know that’s the name of the game. An article from a respected news organisation reports that businesses are planning to open offices here can’t be true right? Goes against the Brexit narrative and all that.
For what it’s worth, despite the criticism they receive I tend to believe news stories provided by the beeb. Both good news Brexit stories and bad. I’ve no reason to doubt this story despite your best efforts to spin it, and the next negative Brexit story I read from the bbc I’ll also believe. Open your mind Glyn, you’ll be much happier.
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Touché Glyn. Excellent little comeback at the end there!
Fact based on assessment of the feedback provided by the organisations consulted? It seems quite clear to me Glyn. Look, I’m long enough in the tooth to understand the lay of the land on this forum....good news Brexit stories are b*llocks, bad news stories about Brexit are fact. I know that’s the name of the game. An article from a respected news organisation reports that businesses are planning to open offices here can’t be true right? Goes against the Brexit narrative and all that.
For what it’s worth, despite the criticism they receive I tend to believe news stories provided by the beeb. Both good news Brexit stories and bad. I’ve no reason to doubt this story despite your best efforts to spin it, and the next negative Brexit story I read from the bbc I’ll also believe. Open your mind Glyn, you’ll be much happier.
Good post Herbert and well said.
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Back to the Op the only reason we left the EU is because more people voted to leave than stay in.
The fact that some voters to remain are still arsy is just a side show.
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Touché Glyn. Excellent little comeback at the end there!
Fact based on assessment of the feedback provided by the organisations consulted? It seems quite clear to me Glyn. Look, I’m long enough in the tooth to understand the lay of the land on this forum....good news Brexit stories are b*llocks, bad news stories about Brexit are fact. I know that’s the name of the game. An article from a respected news organisation reports that businesses are planning to open offices here can’t be true right? Goes against the Brexit narrative and all that.
For what it’s worth, despite the criticism they receive I tend to believe news stories provided by the beeb. Both good news Brexit stories and bad. I’ve no reason to doubt this story despite your best efforts to spin it, and the next negative Brexit story I read from the bbc I’ll also believe. Open your mind Glyn, you’ll be much happier.
Oh, I believe the BBC. But all they've reported is the opinion of an organisation that would benefit from financial companies opening new offices. And I believe that they told the BBC exactly what the BBC has reported. But that still doesn't change what the BBC reported as Brovill's opinion into a fact. It would be wonderful if new offices were opened by financial businesses, but that article doesn't say it's going to happen, only what a third party thinks is going to happen.
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Touché Glyn. Excellent little comeback at the end there!
Fact based on assessment of the feedback provided by the organisations consulted? It seems quite clear to me Glyn. Look, I’m long enough in the tooth to understand the lay of the land on this forum....good news Brexit stories are b*llocks, bad news stories about Brexit are fact. I know that’s the name of the game. An article from a respected news organisation reports that businesses are planning to open offices here can’t be true right? Goes against the Brexit narrative and all that.
For what it’s worth, despite the criticism they receive I tend to believe news stories provided by the beeb. Both good news Brexit stories and bad. I’ve no reason to doubt this story despite your best efforts to spin it, and the next negative Brexit story I read from the bbc I’ll also believe. Open your mind Glyn, you’ll be much happier.
It is not up to me to know the motivation behind everyone who voted for Brexit, but there have been several posters on here who have said that one of their main motivations was the number of EU citizens in this country.
Forgive me then for saying that more EU citizens coming over here to work, in a time of rising unemployment, may not be quite the good news story (for Brexiteers) you claim it to be.
Have you any idea of the value of assests they will be bringing with them to make up the £1 trillion we have lost? Given the story seems to indicate they won't be bringing any, just managing what they already have here.
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Back to the Op the only reason we left the EU is because more people voted to leave than stay in.
The fact that some voters to remain are still arsy is just a side show.
I continue to be suprised how unhappy the people who wanted Brexit seem to be. You won - get over it.
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That doesn't include me I lost the vote on the day,about 90K on the value of my shares portfolio, but accepted the result of a democratic vote.
Up to that Thursday night the portfolio was about 18% up over the four days of trading because the markets were so sure remain was going to win.
The elite took the population for mugs and paid the price, totally misread the feelings of the electorate, all the Champaign for remain parties at the BBC were cancelled, probably the reason they are so bitter now.
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That doesn't include me I lost the vote on the day,about 90K on the value of my shares portfolio, but accepted the result of a democratic vote.
Up to that Thursday night the portfolio was about 18% up over the four days of trading because the markets were so sure remain was going to win.
The elite took the population for mugs and paid the price, totally misread the feelings of the electorate, all the Champaign for remain parties at the BBC were cancelled, probably the reason they are so bitter now.
Now if I or any other user of this forum were to check every post you have made on this forum since June 2016 would we conclude that you wanted Brexit or not (since June 2016)?
You won - get over it.
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Government to scrap Pick for Britain scheme launced last year to make up for reduction in EU seasonal workers - despite saying late last year it intended to expand it.
The termination of the scheme came as a surprise to a number of farming experts.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/hiring-and-firing/pick-for-britain-scheme-for-uk-based-farm-workers-scrapped/655189.article
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Government to scrap Pick for Britain scheme launced last year to make up for reduction in EU seasonal workers - despite saying late last year it intended to expand it.
The termination of the scheme came as a surprise to a number of farming experts.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/hiring-and-firing/pick-for-britain-scheme-for-uk-based-farm-workers-scrapped/655189.article
Not quite the full story though, Wilts.
The link also says that the Growers Association said the news wasn’t unexpected because ‘circumstances were different now’.
The story also comments that it is believed the government has opted to work towards removing barriers to recruitment rather than running a national campaign.
It seems to me that this will improve recruitment for British picking jobs.
I say hats off to the government for acting positively, and proactively to an ever changing situation.
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Government to scrap Pick for Britain scheme launced last year to make up for reduction in EU seasonal workers - despite saying late last year it intended to expand it.
The termination of the scheme came as a surprise to a number of farming experts.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/hiring-and-firing/pick-for-britain-scheme-for-uk-based-farm-workers-scrapped/655189.article
One comment caught my eye in that link
"While Defra has not directly commented on the reasons behind the move, it is believed the government has opted to work towards removing barriers to recruitment rather than running a national campaign.
The Grocer understands this will involve the Department for Work & Pensions, which runs Job Centres."
Job centres? Hmmmmmmm
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Havent we had job centres before?
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Government to scrap Pick for Britain scheme launced last year to make up for reduction in EU seasonal workers - despite saying late last year it intended to expand it.
The termination of the scheme came as a surprise to a number of farming experts.
https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/hiring-and-firing/pick-for-britain-scheme-for-uk-based-farm-workers-scrapped/655189.article
Not quite the full story though, Wilts.
The link also says that the Growers Association said the news wasn’t unexpected because ‘circumstances were different now’.
The story also comments that it is believed the government has opted to work towards removing barriers to recruitment rather than running a national campaign.
It seems to me that this will improve recruitment for British picking jobs.
I say hats off to the government for acting positively, and proactively to an ever changing situation.
What are these barriers that are not in place this year which were in 2020 Belton?
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
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Havent we had job centres before?
And your point is?
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you did pass comment on it. Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you did so?
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you say in this post:
Not quite the full story though, Wilts.
The link also says that the Growers Association said the news wasn’t unexpected because ‘circumstances were different now’.
The story also comments that it is believed the government has opted to work towards removing barriers to recruitment rather than running a national campaign.
It seems to me that this will improve recruitment for British picking jobs.
I say hats off to the government for acting positively, and proactively to an ever changing situation.
So if you don't know what the 'barriers' are, or if there are any, how can you say it will therefore 'improve recruitment for British jobs?
And what is it we are to thank the government for by scrapping a scheme they were promoting early this year?
It seems to me you are just promoting Tory propaganda without references to any actual facts. Seems popular these days.
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Not at all. I just don’t assume that everything the government says is a lie.
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And let’s not forget, you put up the link, Wilts.
It’s quite incredible really: you share a link in an an attempt to damn the government and use a particularly unsubstantiated quote like ‘some experts were surprised’, in an attempt to pass it off as proof of more incompetence by the government. Yet I point out some other quotes from the article, that happen to go against your agenda, and it is nothing short of tory propaganda.
But your not biased in any way.
That article is actually an informative, well written and rather quite balanced piece, written for a magazine that is full of expert opinion in that particular field (no pun intended).
It’s a shame you decide to cheapen it and use it for another attempt to find shit that isn’t there.
But that’s what you appear to have become.
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you did pass comment on it. Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you did so?
As I said to Wilts, Glyn, I passed comment on what was written. I have no reason to assume the government lie whenever they speak.
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you did pass comment on it. Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you did so?
As I said to Wilts, Glyn, I passed comment on what was written. I have no reason to assume the government lie whenever they speak.
Really?
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1294909995692294145/pu/vid/1280x720/w0b871dW-g2RgkYh.mp4?tag=10
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you did pass comment on it. Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you did so?
As I said to Wilts, Glyn, I passed comment on what was written. I have no reason to assume the government lie whenever they speak.
Really?
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1294909995692294145/pu/vid/1280x720/w0b871dW-g2RgkYh.mp4?tag=10
And that, Not, is exactly why sensible, balanced political discussion will never happen on here again - if it ever has.
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I’ve no idea Wilts. I didn’t write the article or put the link up.
But you did pass comment on it. Or didn't you know what you were talking about when you did so?
As I said to Wilts, Glyn, I passed comment on what was written. I have no reason to assume the government lie whenever they speak.
Quite right belton you stick up for honest government.
9 DECEMBER 2019
Matt Hancock aide “whacked” by Labour activist say “senior Tories”
Conservative press briefing
9 DECEMBER 2019
“Let’s get Brexit done and take back control of our fishing waters”
Boris Johnson, speaking to fishermen in Grimsby
8 DECEMBER 2019
“There was a (baby boom) after the Olympics, as I prophesied in a speech in 2012. It was quite amazing. There was a big baby boom”
Boris Johnson, interview with The Sunday Times
6 DECEMBER 2019
“There will be no checks on goods going from GB to NI and NI to GB because we are going to come out of the EU whole and entire. That was the objective we secured”
Boris Johnson, press conference in Kent
6 DECEMBER 2019
“I’m not aware of any adverts that we publish that have been misleading”
Michael Gove, ITV News
5 DECEMBER 2019
“Homelessness reached its peak in 2008 under the last Labour government. Since then it’s down by almost a half”
Sajid Javid, Sky News
1 DECEMBER 2019
“I’m perfectly happy to be interviewed by any interviewer called Andrew from the BBC”
Boris Johnson interview, The Andrew Marr Show
1 DECEMBER 2019
“There will be no tariffs and no checks”
Boris Johnson interview, Andrew Marr Show
1 DECEMBER 2019
“We’re upgrading 20 hospitals and building 40 new ones. And you are going to say, oh, well, it’s only six. Actually, that’s not true”
Boris Johnson interview, The Andrew Marr Show
1 DECEMBER 2019
“One of the reasons we’re having this election is because we have a Queen’s speech that was blocked by parliament”
Boris Johnson interview, The Andrew Marr Show
1 DECEMBER 2019
“Jeremy Corbyn wants to scrap MI5”
Boris Johnson interview, The Andrew Marr Show
29 NOVEMBER 2019
“The NHS, as you know, it’s the biggest increase in living memory, a £34bn increase”
Boris Johnson interview, Nick Ferrari on LBC
29 NOVEMBER 2019
“40 new hospitals will be built as a result of decisions we’re taking”
Boris Johnson interview, Nick Ferrari on LBC
28 NOVEMBER 2019
“Absolutely not. I’ve never tried to deceive the public and I’ve always tried to be absolutely frank”
Boris Johnson to ITV News
27 NOVEMBER 2019
“The prime minister has been very clear, you know. We’re not going to have anything. We’re going to make sure that there’s unfettered access into the UK market”
Julian Smith, Conservative Northern Ireland manifesto launch
26 NOVEMBER 2019
“If anybody is convicted, if anybody is done for Islamophobia, or any other prejudice or discrimination in the Conservative Party they are out first bounce”
Boris Johnson, to television cameras
26 NOVEMBER 2019
“No-one has ever credibly suggested that (Islamophobia is) an issue with the leadership of the party, whether that's the leader of the party of the day or the chancellor or other senior figures”
Sajid Javid, campaign event in Bolton
26 NOVEMBER 2019
Nicola Sturgeon “confirmed last night to Andrew Neil” that SNP policy was “to rejoin the EU, to join the Euro”
Boris Johnson, launch of the Scottish Conservative party manifesto
24 NOVEMBER 2019
“We will certainly make sure that the A&E in Telford is kept open”
Boris Johnson, Conservative Party manifesto launch
24 NOVEMBER 2019
“We will be investing, as I say, the biggest ever cash boost to the NHS”
Boris Johnson, Conservative Party manifesto launch
22 NOVEMBER 2019
“I see no reason to interfere with the normal timetable for these things”
Boris Johnson, Question Time
21 NOVEMBER 2019
“Labour’s Jess Phillips undermines Corbyn’s manifesto by admitting they can’t or won’t deliver on their promises”
Conservative Party Twitter account
21 NOVEMBER 2019
“No-one gives a toss about the social media cut and thrust”
Dominic Raab, BBC Breakfast
20 NOVEMBER 2019
“If we’re lucky enough to be elected, so the first budget we will go up to the £9,500 threshold and that will, as I say, put £500 into the pockets of everyone”
Boris Johnson, campaign stop in North Yorkshire
20 NOVEMBER 2019
“There is absolutely no evidence that I’ve ever seen of any Russian interference in UK democratic processes”
Boris Johnson, campaign stop in Teeside
19 NOVEMBER 2019
“We’re putting record sums in [to the NHS] — £34bn”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
19 NOVEMBER 2019
“We’re not just upgrading 20 hospitals but we are building 40 new hospitals”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
19 NOVEMBER 2019
“Not at all. Northern Ireland is part of the customs territory of the UK”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
19 NOVEMBER 2019
Jeremy Corbyn “would whack corporation tax up to the highest in Europe”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
19 NOVEMBER 2019
“I think it does”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
19 NOVEMBER 2019
“factcheckUK”
Conservative Party press office, Twitter account
19 NOVEMBER 2019
The UK’s corporation tax is “already the lowest in Europe”
Boris Johnson, Leadership debate, ITV
18 NOVEMBER 2019
“Jeremy Corbyn would whack up corporation tax to the highest levels in Europe”
Boris Johnson, speech to the Confederation of British Business conference 2019
17 NOVEMBER 2019
“It’s unfair that people coming from European countries can access free NHS care without paying in, while others make significant contributions”
Michael Gove, quoted in The Mail on Sunday
16 NOVEMBER 2019
“Inside the EU we’re trapped in the Common Agricultural Policy. It’s one of the big benefits of leaving the EU, and it will allow us to meet these tree-planting targets which will ensure that we deal with the climate crisis that we face”
Michael Gove, Today programme
15 NOVEMBER 2019
“I see absolutely no reason to change the normal procedures for publishing reports just because there’s an election coming”
Boris Johnson, BBC Radio 5 Live
15 NOVEMBER 2019
Jeremy Corbyn “thinks home ownership is a bad idea and is opposed to it”
Boris Johnson in a speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
15 NOVEMBER 2019
“20,000 more police are operating on our streets to fight crime and bring crime down”
Boris Johnson in a speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
15 NOVEMBER 2019
Jeremy Corbyn “plans to wreck the economy with a £1.2 trillion spending plan”
Boris Johnson in a speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
15 NOVEMBER 2019
Labour “want to have two referendums next year, one in Scotland”
Boris Johnson speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
15 NOVEMBER 2019
“We are getting on with a fantastic programme … 20 hospital upgrades, 40 new hospitals”
Boris Johnson in a speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
15 NOVEMBER 2019
“Jeremy Corbyn … wouldn’t even stick up for this country when it came to the poisonings in Salisbury and actually seemed to side in that instance with Russia”
Boris Johnson in a speech in Oldham, live on Sky News
14 NOVEMBER 2019
Conservative Research Department
Political Brief: General Election 2019
14 NOVEMBER 2019
“Corbyn and his lot ... actually think that the armed services should be disbanded — that’s what he said”
Boris Johnson in a speech to supporters in Oldham
14 NOVEMBER 2019
“Under Jeremy Corbyn’s plan for unlimited and uncontrolled immigration, (net migration) could increase to over 840,000 people — more than the population of Liverpool — coming to the UK every year”
Conservative Research Department report
12 NOVEMBER 2019
“The nature of these reports is that they do contain sensitive information, which is why they need to go through an appropriate period of vetting to make sure that they are safe to then be released. That’s what’s happened here.”
Rishi Sunak, Good Morning Britain
12 NOVEMBER 2019
“Boris Johnson warns voters that Britain faces ‘political onanism’ of Brexit under Jeremy Corbyn”
The Sun
10 NOVEMBER 2019
“The true ‘Cost of Corbyn’ is a staggering £1.2 trillion”
Sajid Javid, public statement
8 NOVEMBER 2019
“I've had to give [drinking] up until we get Brexit done”
Boris Johnson, visit to hospital in Nottinghamshire
7 NOVEMBER 2019
“If somebody asks you to [fill in a form], tell them to ring up the prime minister, and I will direct them to throw that form in the bin”
Boris Johnson, to manufacturers in Northern Ireland
6 NOVEMBER 2019
Jeremy Corbyn “sided with Putin” over the Salisbury novichok attack
Boris Johnson at a Downing Street speech
6 NOVEMBER 2019
“Our MPs are just refusing time and again to deliver Brexit”
Boris Johnson, speech launching Conservative Party election campaign, Downing Street
6 NOVEMBER 2019
“If we can get this deal over the line . . . then we can release that pent-up flood of investment. Hundreds of billions are waiting to pour into the UK”
Boris Johnson, speech launching Conservative Party election campaign, Downing Street
6 NOVEMBER 2019
“We can leave the EU as one UK, whole and entire and perfect as promised”
Boris Johnson, speech launching Conservative Party election campaign, Downing Street
6 NOVEMBER 2019
“We have got a deal, oven-ready, by which we can leave the EU in a few weeks. It’s a great deal for this country. It delivers everything that I wanted when I campaigned for Brexit”
Boris Johnson, speech launching Conservative Party election campaign, Downing Street
6 NOVEMBER 2019
“They [the Labour Party] point their fingers at individuals with a relish and a vindictiveness not seen since Stalin persecuted the kulaks”
Boris Johnson, launching Conservative Party election campaign in The Daily Telegraph
5 NOVEMBER 2019
“This is no different from the standard procedure, as I understand it, that occurs with these select committee reports”
Michael Gove, BBC Breakfast
5 NOVEMBER 2019
“It’s going through appropriate procedures, I think it’s been lodged with No. 10 and it will be published in due course.”
Michael Gove, Today Programme
5 NOVEMBER 2019
“We have taken swift action to deal with any Conservative Party member who has been accused of engaging in Islamophobic language or actions. We’ve made sure those people are suspended and there is an investigation"
Michael Gove, Today Programme
5 NOVEMBER 2019
“Jeremy Corbyn’s Brexit minister can’t or won’t answer a simple question about Labour’s position on Brexit”
Conservative Party Twitter account
3 NOVEMBER 2019
“Work and Pensions Secretary Therese Coffey reveals more than 10 million people can look forward to an income boost, as working-age benefits will rise by the rate of inflation in April”
Department for Work and Pensions, Twitter
3 NOVEMBER 2019
“Parliament refused finally to give approval for us to come out on October 31 which was a great disappointment”
Boris Johnson, Ridge on Sunday
30 OCTOBER 2019
“I might ask the honourable Lady how she can justify this country spending another £1 billion per month on delaying our exit from the European Union”
Boris Johnson, Prime Minister’s Questions
28 OCTOBER 2019
“They made it inevitable that the people of this country would be retained in the EU against their will for at least another three months, at a cost of another £1 billion a month”
Boris Johnson, to the House of Commons
23 OCTOBER 2019
“They said that we would never get it through parliament, and they did their utmost to stop it going through parliament, but we got it through parliament last night”
Boris Johnson, Prime Minister's Questions
22 OCTOBER 2019
“A vote against the programme motion is a vote against Brexit”
Jacob Rees-Mogg, Twitter
22 OCTOBER 2019
“There will be no checks between Great Britain and Northern Ireland”
Boris Johnson, speaking in Parliament
20 OCTOBER 2019
Sir Oliver Letwin was telephoning Lord Pannick about his Brexit amendment while visiting the prime minister
“Senior Tories”
19 OCTOBER 2019
The Prime Minister’s letter to the EU asking for an extension is a “photocopy”
Various British media organisations
2 OCTOBER 2019
“I want to get a deal with Canada but we’re now in the Canadian elections. They’re in a purdah period so we cannot continue those discussions”
International Trade Secretary Liz Truss, BBC Politics Live
2 OCTOBER 2019
“Remember it was only a few years ago when people were saying that solar power would never work in cloudy old Britain and that wind turbines would not pull the skin off a rice pudding”
Boris Johnson, Tory conference speech
2 OCTOBER 2019
“When did you last hear a Tory leader talk about capitalism?”
Boris Johnson, Tory conference speech
2 OCTOBER 2019
“Those who talk about not wanting a no deal Brexit are being deliberately deceitful. It is Brexit full stop they wish to block”
Jacob Rees-Mogg, Twitter
2 OCTOBER 2019
“It was this Conservative government that tackled the debt and the deficit left by the last Labour government”
Boris Johnson, Tory conference speech
1 OCTOBER 2019
“I didn’t actually say collaborators — go back over the quotation”
Boris Johnson, Radio 4’s Today
1 OCTOBER 2019
“It’s obviously very sad that someone should make such allegations — they are not true”
Boris Johnson, BBC Breakfast, on Charlotte Edwardes’s allegations
1 OCTOBER 2019
“I think that it would be a mistake to keep the UK bound in beyond the time that the people want to come out… at a cost of £1 billion a month”
Boris Johnson, Today programme
1 OCTOBER 2019
“I’m delighted that Canterbury, for instance, is going to be one of the 40 new hospitals we are building”
Boris Johnson, Tory conference fringe event
1 OCTOBER 2019
“I've always been a big champion of women at the top of every organisation that I run. If you look at the way I ran City Hall was virtually half and half, it was a complete feminocracy at City Hall. The same goes for what I did in the Foreign Office”
Boris Johnson, Today programme
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30 SEPTEMBER 2019
“When I was running London we drove up ridership on buses massively by improving the service and having automatic contactless payment — Oyster cards”
Boris Johnson, to television cameras, warehouse in Manchester
29 SEPTEMBER 2019
No. 10 is probing Remain MPs’ “foreign collusion”
“Downing Street sources”
29 SEPTEMBER 2019
“The Conservative Party is the oldest, greatest political party in the world. It’s a big broad church and we don’t do deals with other parties”
Boris Johnson, Andrew Marr Show
28 SEPTEMBER 2019
“You will have seen that on the steps of Downing Street I announced 20 new hospital upgrades. We’re now following that up with 40 new hospitals”
Boris Johnson, Daily Telegraph
25 SEPTEMBER 2019
“One of the reasons I wanted to have a Queen’s Speech was so that we could bring back the domestic violence Bill”
Boris Johnson, Parliament
25 SEPTEMBER 2019
“On the language he ascribes to me, I do not think I have used those words. I would be happy if he clarified that point”
Boris Johnson, Parliament
25 SEPTEMBER 2019
“Johnson still believes he can lawfully render the Benn Act null and void”
“Senior government source”, to Robert Peston
24 SEPTEMBER 2019
“What we will certainly do is ensure that Parliament has plenty of time to debate Brexit”
Boris Johnson, BBC interview
24 SEPTEMBER 2019
“Amber Rudd was given every opportunity to see the legal advice but chose to resign without doing so. It is utterly dishonest to suggest it was in anyway withheld”
Unnamed government source, to Tim Shipman, political editor of The Sunday Times
23 SEPTEMBER 2019
“Everything was done with complete propriety and in the normal way”
Boris Johnson, Sky News interview, New York
23 SEPTEMBER 2019
“If you try to sell British socks in North America they currently attract a 19 per cent tariff and the Americans insist before they allow them to be sold on the US market they must try to set fire to them twice”
Boris Johnson to reporters en route to UN General Assembly
23 SEPTEMBER 2019
“When we leave the EU we can ban the sale of shark fin soup”
Boris Johnson, Channel 4 News interview
19 SEPTEMBER 2019
“I don’t comment on conversations with the Queen”
Boris Johnson to reporters
18 SEPTEMBER 2019
“There’s no press here”
Boris Johnson, during a visit to Whipps Cross hospital
16 SEPTEMBER 2019
“The prorogation that is involved with this Queen’s speech only loses us four days. Four days of parliamentary sitting time”
Boris Johnson, Twitter video
13 SEPTEMBER 2019
“I didn’t say” police money was being “spaffed up the wall” on historic child sex abuse investigations
Boris Johnson, press conference, Convention of the North
13 SEPTEMBER 2019
“We’ve got a huge new Towns Fund which is going to be giving £3.6 billion altogether”
Boris Johnson, press conference, Convention of the North
12 SEPTEMBER 2019
As mayor of London my initiative on homelessness was “successful”
Boris Johnson, People’s PMQs
12 SEPTEMBER 2019
“The High Court in England plainly agrees with us”
Boris Johnson, to television cameras, Thames ship visit
5 SEPTEMBER 2019
Any involvement of police officers will be “solely about police officer recruitment”
Prime Minister’s team, visit to West Yorkshire Police
5 SEPTEMBER 2019
I would rather be “dead in a ditch” than delay Brexit
Boris Johnson, speech on West Yorkshire Police visit
2 SEPTEMBER 2019
“£14 billion pound cash boost for schools”
Conservative Party Facebook advert linking to BBC article
2 SEPTEMBER 2019
There are “no circumstances” in which the prime minister will ask Brussels to delay Brexit beyond Halloween
“Senior government source”, to The Independent
1 SEPTEMBER 2019
There are “only four days parliament might have been sitting when it won’t be sitting”
Michael Gove on prorogation
30 AUGUST 2019
“We are in the last stages” of negotiating a deal
Boris Johnson, government Twitter video
28 AUGUST 2019
“To deliver on the public’s priorities we require a new session and a Queen’s Speech”
Boris Johnson announces the proroguing of parliament
28 AUGUST 2019
“The claim that the government is considering proroguing parliament in Sept in order to stop MPs debating Brexit is entirely false”
Downing Street source
28 AUGUST 2019
“Only around four Commons sitting days will be lost” due to prorogation
Downing Street source
28 AUGUST 2019
Prorogation is “certainly not” an attempt to stop MPs blocking no deal
Michael Gove, BBC interview
25 AUGUST 2019
“Melton Mowbray pork pies, which are sold in Thailand and in Iceland, are currently unable to enter the US market because of, I don’t know, some sort of food and drug administration restriction”
Boris Johnson, BBC interview after a breakfast meeting with US President Donald Trump
25 AUGUST 2019
The EU would be “entirely” to blame for a no-deal Brexit
Boris Johnson, G7 summit
18 AUGUST 2019
“Yellowhammer is a worst-case scenario”
Michael Gove, Twitter and on television
18 AUGUST 2019
The leaked Operation Yellowhammer document was an “old document”
Michael Gove to television cameras
18 AUGUST 2019
The Operation Yellowhammer document was “deliberately leaked by a former minister in an attempt to influence discussions with EU leaders”
Number 10 briefing to journalists
11 AUGUST 2019
“Nothing can stop us now”
“No 10 aides”, to the Sun on Sunday
8 AUGUST 2019
“They tell me that they are literally only a few years away from being able to provide UK made fusion reactors for sale around the world”
Boris Johnson, live video on Facebook
8 AUGUST 2019
There is “nothing” MPs can do to stop a no-deal Brexit on October 31
Dominic Cummings, to The Daily Telegraph
5 AUGUST 2019
“I want to stress, this is new money. This is new money”
Boris Johnson, announcing £1.8 billion for the NHS
2 AUGUST 2019
“I have never said I’m an active supporter”
Priti Patel on capital punishment, Daily Mail interview
29 JULY 2019
“We made clear” during the Brexit campaign that a no-deal Brexit was a possibility
Dominic Raab, Today programme
25 JULY 2019
“The way we reduced knife crime in London was by a very active policy of stop and search”
Boris Johnson to Parliament, first statement to the commons as prime minister
25 JULY 2019
“We kept the murder rate in London at fewer than 100 for more than four or five years running”
Boris Johnson to Parliament, first statement to the commons as prime minister
17 JULY 2019
“He has had his costs massively increased by Brussels bureaucrats who have insisted that each kipper must be accompanied by this, a plastic ice pillow”
Boris Johnson, final leadership hustings, London
26 JUNE 2019
Chances of a no-deal Brexit are “a million-to-one against”
Boris Johnson, leadership hustings in London
25 JUNE 2019
“We are getting ready to come out on October the 31st ... do or die, come what may”
Boris Johnson, TalkRadio interview
24 JUNE 2019
There are “abundant technical fixes” for the Irish border
Boris Johnson, BBC interview
12 JUNE 2019
“There may be bumps in the road” with no deal
Boris Johnson, speech launching Tory leadership campaign
3 JUNE 2019
“It is an extraordinary fact that this country is forecast in our lifetimes to become the largest and most prosperous economy in this hemisphere”
Boris Johnson, The Daily Telegraph
15 APRIL 2019
“As for the so-called association with Steve Bannon, I am afraid this is a lefty delusion whose spores continue to breed in the Twittersphere”
Boris Johnson, The Daily Telegraph
18 JANUARY 2019
“I didn’t make any remarks about Turkey, mate”
Boris Johnson, press conference at JCB headquarters
7 JANUARY 2019
“Of all the options suggested by pollsters — staying in the EU, coming out on Theresa May’ terms, or coming out on World Trade terms — it is the last, the so-called no deal option, that is… by some margin preferred by the British public”
Boris Johnson The Daily Telegraph
22 NOVEMBER 2018
“Terrific figures out today show GP numbers rose by over a thousand from June-Sept this year”
Matt Hancock, Twitter
9 JULY 2018
“EU regulations stop us lowering lorry windows to help cyclists”
Boris Johnson, letter of resignation as foreign secretary
6 APRIL 2016
“The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want”
Michael Gove, speech at Vote Leave H
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Skippy, do you support Donny Rovers because Rotherham United are shit?
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And you'll have to admit these two are real corkers aye?
26 JANUARY 2016
Brexit will leave the Irish border “absolutely unchanged”
Boris Johnson, BBC interview
8 OCTOBER 2015
“We send the EU £350m a week”
Vote Leave slogan, launch video
-
Stop skipping questions, Skippy! Do you support Donny Rovers because Rotherham United are shit?
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Wrong forum Simon
-
Wrong country Skippy
-
Wrong miserable attitude Simon
-
That's probably because you're homesick, Skippy. You'll get over it. It's good to talk.
-
What is your point. Sydney?
-
I thought it would be obvious even to you belton
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What's wrong Skippy, has someone fallen down the Well?
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What is your point. Sydney?
I should apologise to you belton for my earlier snappy reply for not taking you and this comment ''I passed comment on what was written. I have no reason to assume the government lie whenever they speak'' of yours on face value and you really don't know that johnson is and his government are a bunch of inveterate liars, you'll probably want to thank myself and others for bringing you up to speed, you will note that the list I posted runs only to Dec 2019 so there is a whole year and this year so far of mistruths being compiled as we have a rigorous debate about this government.
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I still don’t understand your point, Sydney. Even me.
It appears to me to like me saying I have no reason to believe that the Rovers will lose every time they play, so you put up a list of games they have lost as some sort of proof that they will lose every time they play.
It makes no sense.
Not even in your upside down world.
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Oh well I did try
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You did try to what, exactly?
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belton and BB. From your recent postings on this subject it is reasonable to conclude that either....
a) you're in denial that the Tories have been lying, attempting to break the law and cronyism
b) you're a pair of WUMs
c) you find being lied to, governments breaking the law and cronyism acceptable
I can't believe it's a), no one could miss all the lies, cronyism and the braking of the law. I certainly hope it's not b), so that just leaves c). Your support for, and lack of criticism of, this government would indicate this latter is the case!
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belton and BB. From your recent postings on this subject it is reasonable to conclude that either....
a) you're in denial that the Tories have been lying, attempting to break the law and cronyism
b) you're a pair of WUMs
c) you find being lied to, governments breaking the law and cronyism acceptable
I can't believe it's a), no one could miss all the lies, cronyism and the braking of the law. I certainly hope it's not b), so that just leaves c). Your support for, and lack of criticism of, this government would indicate this latter is the case!
Not. I have NEVER said the government hasn’t lied, isn’t lying or won’t lie in the future.
I have never said, or suggested, that lying is acceptable.
Which suggests to me that there is only one WUM in this conversation.
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NNK, the only people who are in denial are those who only talk about Tory lies, and ignore Labour lies.
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Any time you want to list them bb
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NNK, the only people who are in denial are those who only talk about Tory lies, and ignore Labour lies.
Unlike the people who only talk about 'Labour lies' and ignore Tory lies. What do you call them BB?
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And let’s not forget, you put up the link, Wilts.
It’s quite incredible really: you share a link in an an attempt to damn the government and use a particularly unsubstantiated quote like ‘some experts were surprised’, in an attempt to pass it off as proof of more incompetence by the government. Yet I point out some other quotes from the article, that happen to go against your agenda, and it is nothing short of tory propaganda.
But your not biased in any way.
That article is actually an informative, well written and rather quite balanced piece, written for a magazine that is full of expert opinion in that particular field (no pun intended).
It’s a shame you decide to cheapen it and use it for another attempt to find shit that isn’t there.
But that’s what you appear to have become.
And you commented on it - attempting to jusity government spin on a project that was never going to work and has been dropped to be replaced by some vague promise. With what subsequent cost to farmers and the consumers.
You are just a Tory spin merchant peddling their corruption, cronyism and lies - thats what you have become.
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Sydney, if I just listed lies from one side I'd be as bad as you, but seeing as you asked, what about your great leader's whopper in denying he supported the EU vaccine programme?
Any time.
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NNK, the only people who are in denial are those who only talk about Tory lies, and ignore Labour lies.
Unlike the people who only talk about 'Labour lies' and ignore Tory lies. What do you call them BB?
Why don't you ask them Wilts?
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Sydney, if I just listed lies from one side I'd be as bad as you, but seeing as you asked, what about your great leader's whopper in denying he supported the EU vaccine programme?
Any time.
whoooooo scary stuff bb you'll have the left trembling
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NNK, the only people who are in denial are those who only talk about Tory lies, and ignore Labour lies.
Unlike the people who only talk about 'Labour lies' and ignore Tory lies. What do you call them BB?
Why don't you ask them Wilts?
Why would they know what you would call them? :silly:
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And let’s not forget, you put up the link, Wilts.
It’s quite incredible really: you share a link in an an attempt to damn the government and use a particularly unsubstantiated quote like ‘some experts were surprised’, in an attempt to pass it off as proof of more incompetence by the government. Yet I point out some other quotes from the article, that happen to go against your agenda, and it is nothing short of tory propaganda.
But your not biased in any way.
That article is actually an informative, well written and rather quite balanced piece, written for a magazine that is full of expert opinion in that particular field (no pun intended).
It’s a shame you decide to cheapen it and use it for another attempt to find shit that isn’t there.
But that’s what you appear to have become.
And you commented on it - attempting to jusity government spin on a project that was never going to work and has been dropped to be replaced by some vague promise. With what subsequent cost to farmers and the consumers.
You are just a Tory spin merchant peddling their corruption, cronyism and lies - thats what you have become.
You used that article to support your disdain for the government. However, the article isn’t a left sided, or a right sided piece. It’s just a well written, interesting article. Even the writer of the article, or ‘The Grocer’, who are the real experts in this, are not vilifying the government over their actions discussed in the article.
To be called a Tory spin merchant for not adding anti Tory spin to the article is a strange one.
I honestly think that if this government said that Dave Kitson was a Kitson, you and a few others on here would be trying to get him in the Rovers’ hall of fame.
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belton and BB. From your recent postings on this subject it is reasonable to conclude that either....
a) you're in denial that the Tories have been lying, attempting to break the law and cronyism
b) you're a pair of WUMs
c) you find being lied to, governments breaking the law and cronyism acceptable
I can't believe it's a), no one could miss all the lies, cronyism and the braking of the law. I certainly hope it's not b), so that just leaves c). Your support for, and lack of criticism of, this government would indicate this latter is the case!
Not. I have NEVER said the government hasn’t lied, isn’t lying or won’t lie in the future.
I have never said, or suggested, that lying is acceptable.
Which suggests to me that there is only one WUM in this conversation.
You have never, to my knowledge, stated that the government has lied, nor have you, to my knowledge, criticised any of them for lying! You have never, to my knowledge, criticised them for cronyism or for breaking the law!
Are you going to vote for them if the same leader and cabinet are in place at the next GE? Because if you are the you will be approving of the country, (and the Queen), being lied to; you will be approving of cronyism; and you will be voting for the government to break the law whenever it chooses!
Oh, and do you know what a WUM is?
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I see there is some unrest in France about them having to pick up the pieces and the £25 billion a year extra costs to being members of the EU now we have left and the money tree has disappeared.
Could it be Frexit next.
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belton and BB. From your recent postings on this subject it is reasonable to conclude that either....
a) you're in denial that the Tories have been lying, attempting to break the law and cronyism
b) you're a pair of WUMs
c) you find being lied to, governments breaking the law and cronyism acceptable
I can't believe it's a), no one could miss all the lies, cronyism and the braking of the law. I certainly hope it's not b), so that just leaves c). Your support for, and lack of criticism of, this government would indicate this latter is the case!
Not. I have NEVER said the government hasn’t lied, isn’t lying or won’t lie in the future.
I have never said, or suggested, that lying is acceptable.
Which suggests to me that there is only one WUM in this conversation.
You have never, to my knowledge, stated that the government has lied, nor have you, to my knowledge, criticised any of them for lying! You have never, to my knowledge, criticised them for cronyism or for breaking the law!
Are you going to vote for them if the same leader and cabinet are in place at the next GE? Because if you are the you will be approving of the country, (and the Queen), being lied to; you will be approving of cronyism; and you will be voting for the government to break the law whenever it chooses!
Oh, and do you know what a WUM is?
I’ve only ever voted Labour. Something I’ve made quite clear on a number of occasions.
What I also do is accept democratic votes and try to put my faith in the government, whichever colour, to try to do the best for my country. I’ll get my chance to vote again when the next election comes up, as will we all.
For what it’s worth, I don’t think this government is doing a particularly good job, but I also think they are making a much better fist of it than the current Labour party would be doing.
I do know what a WUM is. And your antagonistic post with bullet points offering a number of options of who I must be, without actually addressing what I wrote, does indeed make you a wind up merchant (WUM)
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belton quote:
''For what it’s worth, I don’t think this government is doing a particularly good job, but I also think they are making a much better fist of it than the current Labour party would be doing''
this is quite a remarkable statement in light of the disasters, lies, incompetence and cronyism that's been going on, remembering that the first duty of any government is to keep their citizens safe.
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Completely lost me again, Sydney.
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It's not difficult belton don't worry about it
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Sydney, I really need your help here. You have a habit of worrying me and then telling me not to worry.
Please. What is remarkable about my statement?
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Not seen it on here yet.... and I couldn't comment if it is a good, bad or indifferent deal. The Express is obviously fluffing it for readers, but it's another deal done (with Serbia) and the news on joining the CPTPP seems promising.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1424968/Liz-Truss-UK-trade-deal-latest-update-Serbia-signs-investment-UK-Export-Finance?__vfz=medium%3Dstandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads
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Not seen it on here yet.... and I couldn't comment if it is a good, bad or indifferent deal. The Express is obviously fluffing it for readers, but it's another deal done (with Serbia) and the news on joining the CPTPP seems promising.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1424968/Liz-Truss-UK-trade-deal-latest-update-Serbia-signs-investment-UK-Export-Finance?__vfz=medium%3Dstandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads
No doubt that it will be pulled to pieces by the Labour fanboys.
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Not seen it on here yet.... and I couldn't comment if it is a good, bad or indifferent deal. The Express is obviously fluffing it for readers, but it's another deal done (with Serbia) and the news on joining the CPTPP seems promising.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1424968/Liz-Truss-UK-trade-deal-latest-update-Serbia-signs-investment-UK-Export-Finance?__vfz=medium%3Dstandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads
"The agreement secures continued preferential trade access between the UK and Serbia."
I don't know but I'm guessing the word "continued" is doing a lot of work on behalf of the Express's editorial policy?
Just a thought.
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Not seen it on here yet.... and I couldn't comment if it is a good, bad or indifferent deal. The Express is obviously fluffing it for readers, but it's another deal done (with Serbia) and the news on joining the CPTPP seems promising.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1424968/Liz-Truss-UK-trade-deal-latest-update-Serbia-signs-investment-UK-Export-Finance?__vfz=medium%3Dstandalone_content_recirculation_with_ads
No doubt that it will be pulled to pieces by the Labour fanboys.
Not without any details as to what the deal actually is. The Express doesn't seem to think we need to know any.
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I've finally found an economist who doesn't think Brexit will lead to serious long-term damage to our economy.
https://www.eurointelligence.com/column/brexit-revisited
Unfortunately, he seems incapable of doing primary school maths.
Here's his opening argument:
"The collapse in UK-EU trade after January 1 was widely reported. What has not been reported nearly as much is that UK exports have fully recovered. They were up 46.6% in February after falling by 42% in January.:
And here's some simple maths.
Assume our exports were 100 in December.
Then they fell 42% in January, so they were 58.
Then they rose 46.6% in February.
46.6% of 58 is 27. So at the end of February, our exports were 58+27=85.
So his opening line is that 85 is completely the same as 100.
Then he makes precisely the same mistake in the graph further down. If you do the same sums on the GDP figures from 2019-2022, the UK GDP growth is 2.5% lower than the EUs. Which equates to our economy being £50bn smaller in 2022 than it would have been if we'd had the EU growth rate. But, because GDP compounds, and our GDP is smaller in 2020, 2021 and 2022, that means we will have lost closer to £100bn of total economic output over that time.
And he draws the conclusion that Brexit has had no effect.
As has been pointed out time after time, there are no credible economists anywhere predicting anything other than that Brexit will make us significantly poorer. What there are, are idiots like this writing shite that would get a fail in GSCE economics.
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Johnson promises to end GB - NI trade barriers.
That are contained in the deal he negotiated and up until a few days ago he denied existed - despite most of the rest of the world telling him that is exactly what he had put in place.
Absolutely no chance of this happening, all Tory lies and spin like most of what he says. But watch the normal government apologists come out and defend him.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56777985
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1384410580920963072
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Imagine how shocked he must be to find that these "ludicrous barriers" exist!
Where did they come from?
Who authorised them?
Why did no-one tell him these "ludicrous barriers" were coming when he solemnly told the electorate there would be no barriers?
I do wonder how deeply he has to insult the intelligence of his supporters before they kick back.
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Imagine how shocked he must be to find that these "ludicrous barriers" exist!
Where did they come from?
Who authorised them?
Why did no-one tell him these "ludicrous barriers" were coming when he solemnly told the electorate there would be no barriers?
I do wonder how deeply he has to insult the intelligence of his supporters before they kick back.
Actually Billy, I genuinely believe that if he came up to them and kicked them in the nuts, most of his supporters would actually thank him for doing it!
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Actually, I've got it. Reading further down that article, Johnson explains.
When he said there would be no barriers in the irish Sea, he didn't mean there would be no barriers. He meant there would be barriers but they wouldn't really be barriers. And it is the dastardly EU's fault that the barriers have turned out to be real barriers, not pretend barriers. And he's jolly well going to...err...ahh...
"He warned the government would take further steps if the EU insisted on being dogmatic over matters like the supply of British rose bushes, soil and sausages to Northern Ireland.
Noting that the EU Withdrawal Agreement specifically mentions Northern Ireland's integral place in the UK's internal market, the prime minister said the way the deal had been interpreted did not conform with that provision.
He insisted the checks on goods moving across the Irish Sea had always been intended to be light-touch measures and he described the UK economic market's integrity as paramount."
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And if you follow David Henig's links you come to Sam McBride's article on the interview to be shown on Irish tv tonight which contains this;
Boris Johnson has denounced as “ludicrous” the checks which he said would not happen at the Irish Sea border which he said would not exist. But he has admitted that when he said there wouldn't be checks, he knew there would be checks.
https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1384407104816128000
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It doesn't matter Wilts. The people who support him KNOW he's incapable of telling the truth when he's put in the spot. They don't care. He tells them what they want to hear and it doesn't matter if he's lying. They just claim that all politicians do. I'm not sure how we get back from here.
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Why post on here if it’s futile?
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It doesn't matter Wilts. The people who support him KNOW he's incapable of telling the truth when he's put in the spot. They don't care. He tells them what they want to hear and it doesn't matter if he's lying. They just claim that all politicians do. I'm not sure how we get back from here.
Johnson's lying and the possible enquiry into it was being discussed on the Jeremy Vine show this morning. Ann Widdecombe was on and she reckons that lying to the country shouldn't be part of any enquiry, only where he's thought to have been lying to parliament should there be an enquiry - and then there's an internal procedure that should be followed before any enquirey!
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It doesn't matter Wilts. The people who support him KNOW he's incapable of telling the truth when he's put in the spot. They don't care. He tells them what they want to hear and it doesn't matter if he's lying. They just claim that all politicians do. I'm not sure how we get back from here.
Maybe by coming up with some potential trustworthy opposition to give people a realistic choice in elections?
I feel at the moment it's just the best of a bad bunch, none of which have the interests of normal Brits at heart.
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Why post on here if it’s futile?
It gives them a sense of togetherness.
A chance to feel like their opinions are important to everyone else.
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Oh the irony!
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LoL. You would know about that.
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Not a bad crack going off in Italy, a civil servant was assigned to a job in a hospital and has not done a days work for 15 years on full salary.
He was found out by an investigation into absenteeism by Italian workers and fraudulently claiming wages for not working. Over the period he has claimed over £450,000 in unearned wages, sort of started Billy's Universal payment theory early a man before his time.
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The Juventus Chairman blamed Brexit for the collapse of the new European football league.
Guess it saved the Premiership then, and the other European leagues.
He doesn't like people thinking for themselves does he.
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If Boris Johnson told Dyson he’d “fix” tax laws for him
what the hell did he tell the Russian businessmen who have donated millions to the Tories?
That he’d “Get Brexit Done”?
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It doesn't matter Wilts. The people who support him KNOW he's incapable of telling the truth when he's put in the spot. They don't care. He tells them what they want to hear and it doesn't matter if he's lying. They just claim that all politicians do. I'm not sure how we get back from here.
From their own people .............
''Ex-minister Johnny Mercer says ‘almost nobody’ tells truth in Johnson’s government
Former veterans’ minister says it was ‘most distrustful, awful environment I’ve ever worked in, in government’''
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belton quote:
''For what it’s worth, I don’t think this government is doing a particularly good job, but I also think they are making a much better fist of it than the current Labour party would be doing''
this is quite a remarkable statement in light of the disasters, lies, incompetence and cronyism that's been going on, remembering that the first duty of any government is to keep their citizens safe.
Good to see you back on this thread, Sydney.
You might have missed my last response to this, so I’ll try again. What is it that is so remarkable about my statement? Your comment was quite a powerful one so at least give me the courtesy of explaining what you mean.
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No, didn't miss it belton
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Oh. Just picked and chose what to respond to then, after suggesting the other person doesn’t understand your nonsensical clap trap because they are too thick.
As usual.
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If that's how you see yourself who am I to argue
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Not trying to cause any friction - or point the finger at anyone in particular, but has anyone else noticed how many topics in the OT section seem to gravitate towards politics..... and then a general roundabout of squabbles and altercations. It does seem that our collective of narcissistic, egocentric.... or even masochistic pundits always end up vying for supremacy and no matter what the original subject, it eventually veers towards a bit of a political brouhaha.
Do people generally enjoy the political jousting in every other thread, or should there be a separate Politics sub section for this?
Just asking....
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I think that a separate political thread would be a good idea.
The problem is as you say that some topics don’t start out political but just morph into one.
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I would love it if we moved politics to its own, separate thread. Just love it.
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Not trying to cause any friction - or point the finger at anyone in particular, but has anyone else noticed how many topics in the OT section seem to gravitate towards politics..... and then a general roundabout of squabbles and altercations. It does seem that our collective of narcissistic, egocentric.... or even masochistic pundits always end up vying for supremacy and no matter what the original subject, it eventually veers towards a bit of a political brouhaha.
Do people generally enjoy the political jousting in every other thread, or should there be a separate Politics sub section for this?
Just asking....
How do other posters access the forum?
I have no idea which section any thread is posted in until I come to read it. When I log on it takes me straight to an unread threads page and I click on anything that interests me from the title - or a topic I have previously posted in.
That way I don't miss anything - and can quickly skip the rubbish (yeah and before anyone else says it, quite a lot of that created by me).
So to me the sections are pretty irrelevant.
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Not trying to cause any friction - or point the finger at anyone in particular, but has anyone else noticed how many topics in the OT section seem to gravitate towards politics..... and then a general roundabout of squabbles and altercations. It does seem that our collective of narcissistic, egocentric.... or even masochistic pundits always end up vying for supremacy and no matter what the original subject, it eventually veers towards a bit of a political brouhaha.
Do people generally enjoy the political jousting in every other thread, or should there be a separate Politics sub section for this?
Just asking....
How do other posters access the forum?
I have no idea which section any thread is posted in until I come to read it. When I log on it takes me straight to an unread threads page and I click on anything that interests me from the title - or a topic I have previously posted in.
That way I don't miss anything - and can quickly skip the rubbish (yeah and before anyone else says it, quite a lot of that created by me).
So to me the sections are pretty irrelevant.
I also access the forum in the same way wilts.
I would love it if there was a political thread though and perhaps it should go into the same section as “forum matters” as no one can ever find that.
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The thing is everything becomes politics because for some people everything is down to brexit, evil tories, etc etc. It's a default answer to every debate and on and on it will go because they are incapable of listening to the views of others without it becoming a personal attack because they are right and everyone else is wrong.
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If that's how you see yourself who am I to argue
Apologies if I have misunderstood, Sydney. It’s just that comments like:
‘I thought it would be obvious even to you belton’
‘It’s not difficult belton don’t worry about it’
Without then justifying your claims when asked make you look like like an ignorant, arrogant prick.
I might be wrong, but the evidence suggests I’m not.
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Guys! guys! guys! It's what they call grown-up politics!
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Not trying to cause any friction - or point the finger at anyone in particular, but has anyone else noticed how many topics in the OT section seem to gravitate towards politics..... and then a general roundabout of squabbles and altercations. It does seem that our collective of narcissistic, egocentric.... or even masochistic pundits always end up vying for supremacy and no matter what the original subject, it eventually veers towards a bit of a political brouhaha.
Do people generally enjoy the political jousting in every other thread, or should there be a separate Politics sub section for this?
Just asking....
If the government cannot separate covid and health from politics but goes out of it's way to make it political how then are we supposed to discuss it MM?
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I'll add further that in my view running the country should not be front page fodder, it should be done in an orderly and equitable manner (splutter) but it has to be made into a cultural war to feed the symbiotic relationship between the majority media supporting the right and denigrating the left. Johnson knows as well as everyone that a divided left means government for the right and also knows without said media they have no clothes.
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"and that concludes the case for the defence....." :whistle: :laugh:
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"and that concludes the case for the defence....." :whistle: :laugh:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :crying:
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The French fishermen are getting tetchy.
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"and that concludes the case for the defence....." :whistle: :laugh:
great post hound :)
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The French fishermen are getting tetchy.
To add some detail...
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/french-fishermen-block-british-lorries-carrying-uk-landed-fish-2021-04-22/
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t doesn't say in the link but assume it's a licence issued by the uk with the proviso of a five year electronic record of fishing the area? anyone, selby?
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Brexit disaster: Australia 'to prioritise EU deal' as UK talks boil over
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1426602/brexit-news-australia-trade-deal-eu-priority-uk-elizabeth-truss-spt
Sure I read somewhere that we hold all the cards? Has Syd been having a word just to annoy Selby?
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Brexit disaster: Australia 'to prioritise EU deal' as UK talks boil over
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1426602/brexit-news-australia-trade-deal-eu-priority-uk-elizabeth-truss-spt
Sure I read somewhere that we hold all the cards? Has Syd been having a word just to annoy Selby?
Just to add a little context to this post. From what I can see, the claim that Australia will prioritise an EU trade deal was made by a former Australian trade minister 5 years ago. Meanwhile, Liz Truss tweeted today that the two countries had made a major breakthrough in trade talks and they aim to reach an agreement in principle by June. So unless I’m missing something, I can’t see a “Brexit Disaster”?
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1426745/liz-truss-news-australia-trade-deal-Brexit-latest-negotiations-talks-update-dan-tehan
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Wilts, I thought you said you didn't read the Express?
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Brexit disaster: Australia 'to prioritise EU deal' as UK talks boil over
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1426602/brexit-news-australia-trade-deal-eu-priority-uk-elizabeth-truss-spt
Sure I read somewhere that we hold all the cards? Has Syd been having a word just to annoy Selby?
Just to add a little context to this post. From what I can see, the claim that Australia will prioritise an EU trade deal was made by a former Australian trade minister 5 years ago. Meanwhile, Liz Truss tweeted today that the two countries had made a major breakthrough in trade talks and they aim to reach an agreement in principle by June. So unless I’m missing something, I can’t see a “Brexit Disaster”?
Perhaps we should start a ‘Brexit Benefits Thread’ to put things like this in.
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Wilts, I thought you said you didn't read the Express?
Well according to Belton they are wrong, so why would anyone?
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Yeah but, never mind what Belton said, YOU said you didn't read the Express, but you clearly do, don't you?
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I didn’t say they were wrong. I couldn’t as I don’t read the Express..
I was simply replying to Herbert’s post.
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Yeah but, never mind what Belton said, YOU said you didn't read the Express, but you clearly do, don't you?
Are yu saying they are right or wrong? You clearing being a regular reader?
You post something from the Guardian - we don't believe because its from a lefty rag.
You post something from the right-wing press - we don't believe it because.... well because...
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I'm saying you said you didn't read the Express when clearly you do. Stop squirming man and admit it.
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Sales of milk and cream to EU plunge 96 percent due to Brexit - according to the Independent.
Sounds like big numbers to me.
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Was just about to post the same foxbat.
To date the extra bureaucracy associated with leaving the EU has cost the food and drinks industry £1.1 billion.
Lucky they need us more than we need them ehh.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-trade-deal-eu-exports-b1837528.html
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Looking at Germany's manufacturing figures today Wilts I would say they do, Merkel especially.
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Looking at Germany's manufacturing figures today Wilts I would say they do, Merkel especially.
Why ain't they buying from us then?
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the view from Ireland
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Because they are in the doo doo Glyn.
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most countries are in doo doo, Germany is experiencing growth, hope you're not looking at a single indicator in your glass ball.
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Because they are in the doo doo Glyn.
No they're not. Our manufacturing figures went south forty years ago, have we been in the doo doo since?
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Because they are in the doo doo Glyn.
It's difficult to know what is the sadder alternative Selby. That you might actually believe this. Or that you don't.
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i think, purely as a daft t**t, that there will be one or two countries also leaving the EU in the next few years.
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i think, purely as a daft t**t, that there will be one or two countries also leaving the EU in the next few years.
Accepted, but what has that got to do with the UK we're out, no? It sounds like you're harking back to when the UK had more influence
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1386774351500955653
This is what the BBC does best, and particularly the excellent Ros Atkins. This report looks at the pre Brexit agreement promises made in relation to UK fisheries against what’s actually being delivered. Only 4 minutes long, but very interesting and thought provoking.
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i think, purely as a daft t**t, that there will be one or two countries also leaving the EU in the next few years.
Accepted, but what has that got to do with the UK we're out, no? It sounds like you're harking back to when the UK had more influence
The UK has probably got more influence regarding other countries leaving the EU now than when we were in it and paying a big chunk towards it.
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i think, purely as a daft t**t, that there will be one or two countries also leaving the EU in the next few years.
Accepted, but what has that got to do with the UK we're out, no? It sounds like you're harking back to when the UK had more influence
The UK has probably got more influence regarding other countries leaving the EU now than when we were in it and paying a big chunk towards it.
"Come on in, the shit's lovely and warm!"
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Wow looks like things are stirring up big style in France.
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Do you actually believe anybody gives a f**k about anything you say any more? Everybody knows you're trying to poke people with a stick but you're so useless at it you don't realise you haven't even got a stick any more.
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Language Glyn Language you are so common.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1386774351500955653
This is what the BBC does best, and particularly the excellent Ros Atkins. This report looks at the pre Brexit agreement promises made in relation to UK fisheries against what’s actually being delivered. Only 4 minutes long, but very interesting and thought provoking.
Straightforward dispassionate review of the facts, thanks HA.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1386774351500955653
This is what the BBC does best, and particularly the excellent Ros Atkins. This report looks at the pre Brexit agreement promises made in relation to UK fisheries against what’s actually being delivered. Only 4 minutes long, but very interesting and thought provoking.
Straightforward dispassionate review of the facts, thanks HA.
The BBC don't deal in facts, they just push agendas.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1386774351500955653
This is what the BBC does best, and particularly the excellent Ros Atkins. This report looks at the pre Brexit agreement promises made in relation to UK fisheries against what’s actually being delivered. Only 4 minutes long, but very interesting and thought provoking.
Straightforward dispassionate review of the facts, thanks HA.
The BBC don't deal in facts, they just push agendas.
Which areas of the clip aren’t factual AL?
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Ford closed the Bridgend factory but is investing massively in Romania.
In electric cars.
So the government can’t really blame China or diesel this time.
So what is it? Maybe it starts with the letter “B”?
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Ford closed the Bridgend factory but is investing massively in Romania.
In electric cars.
So the government can’t really blame China or diesel this time.
So what is it? Maybe it starts with the letter “B”?
You can’t blame Bentley Bullet for everything!
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Look like it is going extremly well for everyone who wanted to see a samller economy after Brexit. You must be delighted:
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Look like it is going extremly well for everyone who wanted to see a samller economy after Brexit. You must be delighted:
You're probably right that the economy has shrunk........ however, do you think that Covid 19 might have also had something to do with that....?
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Look like it is going extremly well for everyone who wanted to see a samller economy after Brexit. You must be delighted:
You're probably right that the economy has shrunk........ however, do you think that Covid 19 might have also had something to do with that....?
Look at the graph again.
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Ford closed the Bridgend factory but is investing massively in Romania.
In electric cars.
So the government can’t really blame China or diesel this time.
So what is it? Maybe it starts with the letter “B”?
The Bridgend closure was nothing to do with Brexit though. Plus, don’t forget that Ford stopped assembling cars in the UK and moved the majority of the assembly process to Spain & Germany...while we were fully paid up members of the EU.
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No doubting that was going to happen, but does not take into account the difference over the same period with the rest of the world.
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Look like it is going extremly well for everyone who wanted to see a samller economy after Brexit. You must be delighted:
Any reason why you’ve not included February’21 figures in the graph?
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HA
I'd guess it's because Wilts didn't plot it himself? For what it's worth, exports made some of the lost ground up in Feb, but were still 15% down overall.
Imports were still 30% down in Feb, compared to December. People who don't understand economics applaud that because it means we are not buying as much from Johnny Foreigner. But unless there has been an astonishing change on British Industry's ability to replace imports, what that 30% drop means is that British companies are not getting the supplies they normally would. Which suggests trouble being stored up for the short to medium term.
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You may be right BST. I was just curious why the most recent figures weren’t being shared which seems a little pointless to me. Especially when there’s signs of a recovery.
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You may be right BST. I was just curious why the most recent figures weren’t being shared which seems a little pointless to me. Especially when there’s signs of a recovery.
Nothing to stop you doing it Herbert. Those are the latest figures from the ONS in graphical form - if you have others, please share.
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You may be right BST. I was just curious why the most recent figures weren’t being shared which seems a little pointless to me. Especially when there’s signs of a recovery.
Nothing to stop you doing it Herbert. Those are the latest figures from the ONS in graphical form - if you have others, please share.
I’ll do more than that Wilts. I’ll share a link to ONS report for Feb ‘21 that you couldn’t find that shows the increase in exports in Feb ‘21. I wonder if you’d have found it if there’d been a further drop in exports as opposed to an increase? Anyway, your welcome.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/uktrade/february2021
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Another excellent piece by the BBC regarding Brexit promises and reality. This time it’s about Northern Ireland. It picks apart the claims made prior to the Brexit agreement and the reality of what’s actually happening. You may, or may not be surprised to learn that what the Brexiteers and the Tory Party claimed they’d deliver is fairly distant from what they are actually delivering. Anyway, don’t take it from me. Make up your own mind.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1387134844883308547
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Another excellent piece by the BBC regarding Brexit promises and reality. This time it’s about Northern Ireland. It picks apart the claims made prior to the Brexit agreement and the reality of what’s actually happening. You may, or may not be surprised to learn that what the Brexiteers and the Tory Party claimed they’d deliver is fairly distant from what they are actually delivering. Anyway, don’t take it from me. Make up your own mind.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1387134844883308547
Simply and clearly put. Some of us have been saying that for five years. If Ireland is in the SM and CU and GB isn't, by definition you HAVE to have a border somewhere. Johnson has spent years waving away that simple logic. He insisted that there could never be a customs border between GB and NI. Then he signed a deal which required customs checks between GB and NI. Then he swore he hadn't. Now he says it is the EU's fault for really meaning it in the document that he signed.
An utter embarrassment of a politician. He's lied throughout the process. And still there are millions who refuse to accept that he has and insist it is the EU's fault. As if they could somehow magic away the need for customs borders between two different sovereign areas. WE chose this when we ignored the Ireland problem when we voted for Brexit. Anyone who refused to think about that issue when they voted Leave should hold their hand up and have some responsibility for not thinking about this when it mattered.
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It never rains but it pours, the poor old wine growers in France after having to throw gallons of wine and Champaign away due to plummeting sales now a three day frost has killed off a lot of the harvest, and what do they turn to, straight away government grants.
Seem to remember them stopping them to our steel industry, marvelous, still plenty of good wines from else where in the world which is now our oyster.
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Remoaners whines are still going strong thanks to Brexit.
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Another excellent piece by the BBC regarding Brexit promises and reality. This time it’s about Northern Ireland. It picks apart the claims made prior to the Brexit agreement and the reality of what’s actually happening. You may, or may not be surprised to learn that what the Brexiteers and the Tory Party claimed they’d deliver is fairly distant from what they are actually delivering. Anyway, don’t take it from me. Make up your own mind.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1387134844883308547
Simply and clearly put. Some of us have been saying that for five years. If Ireland is in the SM and CU and GB isn't, by definition you HAVE to have a border somewhere. Johnson has spent years waving away that simple logic. He insisted that there could never be a customs border between GB and NI. Then he signed a deal which required customs checks between GB and NI. Then he swore he hadn't. Now he says it is the EU's fault for really meaning it in the document that he signed.
An utter embarrassment of a politician. He's lied throughout the process. And still there are millions who refuse to accept that he has and insist it is the EU's fault. As if they could somehow magic away the need for customs borders between two different sovereign areas. WE chose this when we ignored the Ireland problem when we voted for Brexit. Anyone who refused to think about that issue when they voted Leave should hold their hand up and have some responsibility for not thinking about this when it mattered.
All you had to do is put up someone electable in 2019 and it was there for the taking, maybe moaning about the idiots who thought Corbyn was a good idea for a bit may be in order #youhadonejob
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Another excellent piece by the BBC regarding Brexit promises and reality. This time it’s about Northern Ireland. It picks apart the claims made prior to the Brexit agreement and the reality of what’s actually happening. You may, or may not be surprised to learn that what the Brexiteers and the Tory Party claimed they’d deliver is fairly distant from what they are actually delivering. Anyway, don’t take it from me. Make up your own mind.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1387134844883308547
Simply and clearly put. Some of us have been saying that for five years. If Ireland is in the SM and CU and GB isn't, by definition you HAVE to have a border somewhere. Johnson has spent years waving away that simple logic. He insisted that there could never be a customs border between GB and NI. Then he signed a deal which required customs checks between GB and NI. Then he swore he hadn't. Now he says it is the EU's fault for really meaning it in the document that he signed.
An utter embarrassment of a politician. He's lied throughout the process. And still there are millions who refuse to accept that he has and insist it is the EU's fault. As if they could somehow magic away the need for customs borders between two different sovereign areas. WE chose this when we ignored the Ireland problem when we voted for Brexit. Anyone who refused to think about that issue when they voted Leave should hold their hand up and have some responsibility for not thinking about this when it mattered.
All you had to do is put up someone electable in 2019 and it was there for the taking, maybe moaning about the idiots who thought Corbyn was a good idea for a bit may be in order #youhadonejob
To be fair LDR, if you cast your mind back to the run up to the election, Corbyn produced a leaked document which proved Johnson was lying when he said he never intended to put a border across the Irish Sea. Johnson screamed that it was untrue and the press went to town & accused Corbyn of fabricating the leak etc.. and yet it turns out that Corbyn was spot on. Yet, he’s still the bad guy?
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Another excellent piece by the BBC regarding Brexit promises and reality. This time it’s about Northern Ireland. It picks apart the claims made prior to the Brexit agreement and the reality of what’s actually happening. You may, or may not be surprised to learn that what the Brexiteers and the Tory Party claimed they’d deliver is fairly distant from what they are actually delivering. Anyway, don’t take it from me. Make up your own mind.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1387134844883308547
Simply and clearly put. Some of us have been saying that for five years. If Ireland is in the SM and CU and GB isn't, by definition you HAVE to have a border somewhere. Johnson has spent years waving away that simple logic. He insisted that there could never be a customs border between GB and NI. Then he signed a deal which required customs checks between GB and NI. Then he swore he hadn't. Now he says it is the EU's fault for really meaning it in the document that he signed.
An utter embarrassment of a politician. He's lied throughout the process. And still there are millions who refuse to accept that he has and insist it is the EU's fault. As if they could somehow magic away the need for customs borders between two different sovereign areas. WE chose this when we ignored the Ireland problem when we voted for Brexit. Anyone who refused to think about that issue when they voted Leave should hold their hand up and have some responsibility for not thinking about this when it mattered.
All you had to do is put up someone electable in 2019 and it was there for the taking, maybe moaning about the idiots who thought Corbyn was a good idea for a bit may be in order #youhadonejob
To be fair LDR, if you cast your mind back to the run up to the election, Corbyn produced a leaked document which proved Johnson was lying when he said he never intended to put a border across the Irish Sea. Johnson screamed that it was untrue and the press went to town & accused Corbyn of fabricating the leak etc.. and yet it turns out that Corbyn was spot on. Yet, he’s still the bad guy?
HA let's be honest, elections are a reflection on the personal popularity of the party leaders. Labour missed an open goal there, points about how much a scumbag Johnson is just prove that.
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There are 27000 families and friends thereof that are now thinking johnson wasn't a good idea.
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There are 27000 families and friends thereof that are now thinking johnson wasn't a good idea.
See above Syd, it should have been Labour's for the taking. Labour members who voted for Corbyn as leader need a long look at themselves, they are as compliant for the current government as idiots like me who voted for it.
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Incredible when those without power get blamed for the actions of those with power instead of blaming those in power as they should do.
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Incredible when those without power get blamed for the actions of those with power instead of blaming those in power as they should do.
Are you saying I'm wrong Glyn? That if Labour hadn't stuck with Corbyn they would have probably won in 2019?
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Incredible when those without power get blamed for the actions of those with power instead of blaming those in power as they should do.
Are you saying I'm wrong Glyn? That if Labour hadn't stuck with Corbyn they would have probably won in 2019?
Possibly. Probably. That doesn't make them culpable for Johnson's lying and obfuscation though. Unless you're also going to follow your own logic and go down the line of blaming what Trump did, or Putin continues to do, on those who didn't vote for them!
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Incredible when those without power get blamed for the actions of those with power instead of blaming those in power as they should do.
Are you saying I'm wrong Glyn? That if Labour hadn't stuck with Corbyn they would have probably won in 2019?
Possibly. Probably. That doesn't make them culpable for Johnson's lying and obfuscation though. Unless you're also going to follow your own logic and go down the line of blaming what Trump did, or Putin continues to do, on those who didn't vote for them!
I get what you are saying but think you are missing my point which is that those who kept Corbyn in position enabled the choice between him and Johnson which led to where we are. Yes its ppl like.me who voted tory that are the immediate cause but given a better alternative I believe the outcome is different so yes, a responsibility lies with the Labour members who enabled it as it does with fools who voted tory
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what do you want in a leader Ldr, my dog is better than johnson
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what do you want in a leader Ldr, my dog is better than johnson
Please tell me its a dingo Syd
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Someone like John Smith, think labour's problems began when the union vote foisted the wrong Milliband on us
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Incredible when those without power get blamed for the actions of those with power instead of blaming those in power as they should do.
Are you saying I'm wrong Glyn? That if Labour hadn't stuck with Corbyn they would have probably won in 2019?
Possibly. Probably. That doesn't make them culpable for Johnson's lying and obfuscation though. Unless you're also going to follow your own logic and go down the line of blaming what Trump did, or Putin continues to do, on those who didn't vote for them!
I get what you are saying but think you are missing my point which is that those who kept Corbyn in position enabled the choice between him and Johnson which led to where we are. Yes its ppl like.me who voted tory that are the immediate cause but given a better alternative I believe the outcome is different so yes, a responsibility lies with the Labour members who enabled it as it does with fools who voted tory
That logic only works if those who didn't oppose Johnson enough for your liking knew in advance what lies Johnson was going to come out with. If they did, they could have warned us!
Thatcher was Labour's fault!
Blair was the Tory's fault!
Every government was the Lib Dems fault!
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what do you want in a leader Ldr, my dog is better than johnson
Please tell me its a dingo Syd
It's a dingo
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This is a mates blog about his dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzZCjNxE69M
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Oroject Fear becomes Project Reality !
Hundreds of car parts jobs are set to be axed after a firm announced it was pulling out of the UK.
Toyoda Gosei UK's plants at Gorseinon in Swansea and Rotherham in South Yorkshire employ 458 people.
The company, which produces components for Toyota, Nissan, Renault and Honda, said it was responding to changes in the global sector and a "significant reduction" in UK customer demand.
There are 207 people permanently employed at the Swansea site and 251 in Rotherham, the company's UK headquarters.
Andrew Denniff, from Rotherham and Barnsley Chamber of Commerce, said the firm was a "big player" in the town and its loss would have a huge impact on families, as well as the UK.
"The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality," he added.
LETS BE CLEAR-Brexit had nothing to do with sovereignty, better trade deals or saving money , but purely to protect the offshore billions of a few greedy self serving parasites .
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Oroject Fear becomes Project Reality !
Hundreds of car parts jobs are set to be axed after a firm announced it was pulling out of the UK.
Toyoda Gosei UK's plants at Gorseinon in Swansea and Rotherham in South Yorkshire employ 458 people.
The company, which produces components for Toyota, Nissan, Renault and Honda, said it was responding to changes in the global sector and a "significant reduction" in UK customer demand.
There are 207 people permanently employed at the Swansea site and 251 in Rotherham, the company's UK headquarters.
Andrew Denniff, from Rotherham and Barnsley Chamber of Commerce, said the firm was a "big player" in the town and its loss would have a huge impact on families, as well as the UK.
"The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality," he added.
LETS BE CLEAR-Brexit had nothing to do with sovereignty, better trade deals or saving money , but purely to protect the offshore billions of a few greedy self serving parasites .
That’s a bit misleading foxbat. You’ve missed a little bit when you copy and pasted the article. Allow me to include it for you below.
“There isn’t one factor that has resulted in the announcement today” said a Spokeswoman.
You also seem to have missed the fact that they’re also closing factories in Germany.
So just for clarity, nobody from the organisation has blamed Brexit and they’re also closing a factory within the EU’s largest partner.
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I would have thought that car sales and therefore car parts, are down over the last year.
COVID might have influenced a big part of that.
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Foxbat distorting things to promote his agenda? Nah I'll not believe it
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better dig your heads deeper into the sand lads,
next up straight away is Nestlé
Nestlé is planning to cut almost 600 jobs in the UK, close a factory and switch production of some products to Europe.
The Swiss-owned confectioner said it was considering closing its site in Fawdon, Newcastle upon Tyne, in late 2023, with the loss of about 475 jobs, with a further 98 to go in York.
The GMB trade union s
aid it was “sickening” that lives were being “ruined"
The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality,"
Jobs going to Europe even faster than I thought.
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better dig your heads deeper into the sand lads,
next up straight away is Nestlé
Nestlé is planning to cut almost 600 jobs in the UK, close a factory and switch production of some products to Europe.
The Swiss-owned confectioner said it was considering closing its site in Fawdon, Newcastle upon Tyne, in late 2023, with the loss of about 475 jobs, with a further 98 to go in York.
The GMB trade union s
aid it was “sickening” that lives were being “ruined"
The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality,"
Jobs going to Europe even faster than I thought.
Foxbat, do you trawl through the news everyday looking for reports of job losses and add the word ‘Brexit’ onto it at your own discretion? Yet again, I can’t find any mention of Brexit in any of the reports regarding this. Rather, almost all of the manufacturing is moving to York & Halifax! Either you’ve seen another report or your talking b*llocks again.
And to think that Remainers accused Brexitiers of peddling mis-information!
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Production is moving to Halifax
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Yes nestle are outsourcing some of it which is understandable and fairly normal.
Interesting snippet from NatWest figures today. Retail deposits far in excess of retail borrowing. More signs consumers have not been spending, which will potentially see the government no doubt pushing further spending incentives in the coming months. Though it will unsurprisingly change in april-may as people are now spending much more.
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Foxbats credibility is plummeting faster than bojo's
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better dig your heads deeper into the sand lads,
next up straight away is Nestlé
Nestlé is planning to cut almost 600 jobs in the UK, close a factory and switch production of some products to Europe.
The Swiss-owned confectioner said it was considering closing its site in Fawdon, Newcastle upon Tyne, in late 2023, with the loss of about 475 jobs, with a further 98 to go in York.
The GMB trade union s
aid it was “sickening” that lives were being “ruined"
The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality,"
Jobs going to Europe even faster than I thought.
Foxbat, do you trawl through the news everyday looking for reports of job losses and add the word ‘Brexit’ onto it at your own discretion? Yet again, I can’t find any mention of Brexit in any of the reports regarding this. Rather, almost all of the manufacturing is moving to York & Halifax! Either you’ve seen another report or your talking b*llocks again.
And to think that Remainers accused Brexitiers of peddling mis-information!
Just because someone doesn't say it's because of Brexit doesn't mean that it's not because of Brexit.
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That statement has finally scraped a hole in the bottom of this thread's barrel.
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That statement has finally scraped a hole in the bottom of this thread's barrel.
You really don't understand how business works, do you BB?
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.
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That statement has finally scraped a hole in the bottom of this thread's barrel.
You really don't understand how business works, do you BB?
Something straightforward that appears to go over the heads of some is investment from outside the EU into the UK, if you were looking at investing in the region would you move the dough to Britain now isolated by tariffs from the wealthiest bloc or would you look over the other side of the channel?
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better dig your heads deeper into the sand lads,
next up straight away is Nestlé
Nestlé is planning to cut almost 600 jobs in the UK, close a factory and switch production of some products to Europe.
The Swiss-owned confectioner said it was considering closing its site in Fawdon, Newcastle upon Tyne, in late 2023, with the loss of about 475 jobs, with a further 98 to go in York.
The GMB trade union s
aid it was “sickening” that lives were being “ruined"
The impact of Brexit has now become an unpleasant reality,"
Jobs going to Europe even faster than I thought.
Foxbat, do you trawl through the news everyday looking for reports of job losses and add the word ‘Brexit’ onto it at your own discretion? Yet again, I can’t find any mention of Brexit in any of the reports regarding this. Rather, almost all of the manufacturing is moving to York & Halifax! Either you’ve seen another report or your talking b*llocks again.
And to think that Remainers accused Brexitiers of peddling mis-information!
Just because someone doesn't say it's because of Brexit doesn't mean that it's not because of Brexit.
I think this comment has well and truly taken us through the looking glass.
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I see that Fishermen have been well and truly stitched up again by the Government. Their failure to negotiate a fishing deal with Norway is another nail in their coffin. The irony of course is that many fishing communities voted for Brexit.
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Fishing ? , that would be
UK and Norway fail to reach fishing deal - BBC News
It means UK fleets will have no access to Norway's sub-Arctic waters, known for their cod catches.
HULL fisherman particularly badly hit.
The Tories promised northern working class costal communities a leveling-up patriotic Brexit...
Credibility or no Credibility
Norway will supply Britain’s fish ‘n’ chips shops with cod.
And British fishermen will stay at home.
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Left wing union led riots have broken out in Paris Lyon and other cities in France with tear gas fired into the crowds and Italy is demanding £140 billion urgently to for their economy to survive today lads.
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No link? Fake news.
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idle
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No link? Fake news.
As usual. Another selby brain fart!
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Left wing union led riots have broken out in Paris Lyon and other cities in France with tear gas fired into the crowds and Italy is demanding £140 billion urgently to for their economy to survive today lads.
In which Selby once gain demonstrates his ignorance of the difference between the EU trading block and the domestic situation of various individual countries on the continent of Europe.
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Grandpa, grandpa, tell me story again about the great brexit deal ..............
shurrup and finish your tripe
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That statement has finally scraped a hole in the bottom of this thread's barrel.
You really don't understand how business works, do you BB?
Something straightforward that appears to go over the heads of some is investment from outside the EU into the UK, if you were looking at investing in the region would you move the dough to Britain now isolated by tariffs from the wealthiest bloc or would you look over the other side of the channel?
Where is that investment going then Europe or the UK?
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Into one or more of the 27 EU countries I guess pud.
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That statement has finally scraped a hole in the bottom of this thread's barrel.
You really don't understand how business works, do you BB?
Something straightforward that appears to go over the heads of some is investment from outside the EU into the UK, if you were looking at investing in the region would you move the dough to Britain now isolated by tariffs from the wealthiest bloc or would you look over the other side of the channel?
Where is that investment going then Europe or the UK?
(https://i.imgur.com/mYUCEfy.jpg)
Well, you did ask....
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You lot just don't get how much damage your belittling behavior and insults have done to your cause right from the moment the referendum result was announced.
I guess with your attitudes you were never ones for socialising in pubs or had many mates.
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Planet earth to selby, I guess you're never going to vote labour again so it doesn't really matter what you think
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You lot just don't get how much damage your belittling behavior and insults have done to your cause right from the moment the referendum result was announced.
I guess with your attitudes you were never ones for socialising in pubs or had many mates.
It's not my fault for pushing for Johnson's Tory Hard Brexit - its all your fault for being nasty to me - even if what you said would happen is now begining to happen...
You won, get over it.
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There you go, the disciples rant again just a hook no bait needed.
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There you go, the disciples rant again just a hook no bait needed.
Nice to see you actually admitting openly that you're a WUM, not many WUMs have the balls to admit it! :thumbsup:
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As you know Kato I have never bothered about what other people think.
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"I guess with your attitudes you were never ones for socialising in pubs or had many mates."
So does that bit of your post apply to you?
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"I guess with your attitudes you were never ones for socialising in pubs or had many mates."
So does that bit of your post apply to you?
That's him not bothering what other people think.
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There you go, the disciples rant again just a hook no bait needed.
The arrogance of the lesser brained fascist - who doesnt believe individuals can think independently yet come up with the same conclusions - because they need to be told by some berk on a Rupert Murdoch radio station what to do and think...
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Is calling someone a fascist the thing at the moment Wilts, or were you brought up a commie
Soon have the full compliment of the disciples wolf pack biting.
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I'm surprised selby hasn't picked up on this yet....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56974831
Now I wonder what the catch will be? Last I read about a trade deal with India, it had to include freedom of movement!
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I'm surprised selby hasn't picked up on this yet....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56974831
Now I wonder what the catch will be? Last I read about a trade deal with India, it had to include freedom of movement!
Easing of visa restrictions for students and workers is not remotely like freedom of movement. It could mean a reduction of visa restrictions for certain occupations or further education subjects for example. It all seems positive to me, but then again I’m not determined to seek a negative angle in every news story.
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I'm surprised selby hasn't picked up on this yet....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56974831
Now I wonder what the catch will be? Last I read about a trade deal with India, it had to include freedom of movement!
Easing of visa restrictions for students and workers is not remotely like freedom of movement. It could mean a reduction of visa restrictions for certain occupations or further education subjects for example. It all seems positive to me, but then again I’m not determined to seek a negative angle in every news story.
We'll see. Meanwhile, here's another piece of good news, a way to solve the ROI/NI border issue. And there are lots of people commenting and agreeing it's the way to solve it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgAUPfdAT4
Whatever happened to education in this country?
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I'm surprised selby hasn't picked up on this yet....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56974831
Now I wonder what the catch will be? Last I read about a trade deal with India, it had to include freedom of movement!
Easing of visa restrictions for students and workers is not remotely like freedom of movement. It could mean a reduction of visa restrictions for certain occupations or further education subjects for example. It all seems positive to me, but then again I’m not determined to seek a negative angle in every news story.
We'll see. Meanwhile, here's another piece of good news, a way to solve the ROI/NI border issue. And there are lots of people commenting and agreeing it's the way to solve it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgAUPfdAT4
Whatever happened to education in this country?
I ask the same question when I read ill informed and inaccurate comments about freedom of movement NNK!!
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
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I'm surprised selby hasn't picked up on this yet....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56974831
Now I wonder what the catch will be? Last I read about a trade deal with India, it had to include freedom of movement!
Easing of visa restrictions for students and workers is not remotely like freedom of movement. It could mean a reduction of visa restrictions for certain occupations or further education subjects for example. It all seems positive to me, but then again I’m not determined to seek a negative angle in every news story.
We'll see. Meanwhile, here's another piece of good news, a way to solve the ROI/NI border issue. And there are lots of people commenting and agreeing it's the way to solve it too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvgAUPfdAT4
Whatever happened to education in this country?
GIGO from someone who obviously hasn't even read Article 349.
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
But not according to the Office For National Statistics. Where has this report got it's figures from?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-production
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Certainly - but in the face of the worst recession not suprising and to be hoped for. Still:
'New orders rose at the fastest pace since November 2013, and two-thirds of businesses expect production to be higher in a year’s time.
But the index was also lifted by lengthening delivery times and rising costs of raw materials - factors which sometimes indicate an imminent pick-up but which are currently hampering growth.
“The sector remained beset by supply-chain delays and input shortages ... which contributed to increased purchasing costs and record selling price inflation,” IHS Markit said.
Price pressures are on the radar of the Bank of England as it finalises new forecasts and policy decisions ahead of their release on Thursday, though the central bank is likely to look through price rises caused by short-term disruptions.
A narrower measure of manufacturing output alone showed weaker growth than the broader activity index. Output grew faster in August when many manufacturers had not long reopened after Britain’s first lockdown.
Britain’s economy shrank by almost 10% last year - the biggest fall in output in more than 300 years - and even with rapid growth this year it may take until 2022 for it to regain its pre-crisis size, a slower rebound than the United States.
https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-pmi-idUSKBN2CL0M3
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Is calling someone a fascist the thing at the moment Wilts, or were you brought up a commie
Soon have the full compliment of the disciples wolf pack biting.
Tick off all that apply Selby:
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Is calling someone a fascist the thing at the moment Wilts, or were you brought up a commie
Soon have the full compliment of the disciples wolf pack biting.
Tick off all that apply Selby:
Happy to be corrected Wilts but aren't you a Labour activist? Thought your role would be to try and steer ppl to voting Labour but all you do is antagonise. You're currently a great advocate for any other party
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
But not according to the Office For National Statistics. Where has this report got it's figures from?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-production
Glyn it'll be the PMI reports. The ons returns for April aren't even due yet for businesses.
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Probably the same place that has reported a double dip for the EU. Probably why the French are threatening to cut the electricity supply to Jersey, by the way would that count as against your human rights.
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Here are some trade figures for India-EU
''The EU is India's largest trading partner, accounting for €80 billion worth of trade in goods in 2019 or 11.1% of total Indian trade, on par with the USA and ahead of China (10.7%)''
https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/india/#:~:text=Trade%20picture,the%20total)%20after%20the%20USA.
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Would those figures include any trade we did with India and China at that time Syd?
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No selby the trade figures for China would NOT be included in the figures for India-EU
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Would the trade we did with India and China have been shown and included in the 11.1 % and the 10.7 % and the 11.1% with the USA you quote for 2019. I think they would be so are going to take a hit.
Probably part of the double dip recession reported.
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Would the trade we did with India and China have been shown and included in the 11.1 % and the 10.7 % and the 11.1% with the USA you quote for 2019. I think they would be so are going to take a hit.
Probably part of the double dip recession reported.
Planet earth to selby, China is a separate country to India.
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
But not according to the Office For National Statistics. Where has this report got it's figures from?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-production
Bizarre how these alternative facts get bandied round. According to ONS data, manufacturing output didn't grow at all in December and shrank by 1.8% in January. By March, which as far as I can see is the last official ONS data, it was still 3% down on Feb 2020.
But yeah, believe your alternative facts if you want.
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Syd, not only are you on the hook again but you are wriggling. You well know that all three percentage figures for all three countries include the figures of the trade between the UK and all three as we were still members in 2019.
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fishing without a brain again?
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And while we are on the subject of fishing are you available to tow a generator down to the ferry to take across to Jersey.
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To say they are trying to hurt us for leaving, they sure are doing some squealing and feet stamping don't you think.
They must have been listening and watching the losers in this country for five years and think it is the thing to do.
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Don't be so harsh on yourself selby
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
But not according to the Office For National Statistics. Where has this report got it's figures from?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-production
Bizarre how these alternative facts get bandied round. According to ONS data, manufacturing output didn't grow at all in December and shrank by 1.8% in January. By March, which as far as I can see is the last official ONS data, it was still 3% down on Feb 2020.
But yeah, believe your alternative facts if you want.
Alternative facts? Are you claiming to know more about UK manufacturing PMI figures than CIPS Billy? Or maybe you’re not googling the correct like for like data?
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British manufacturing activity has grown at its fastest rate for 27 years and April has seen its 11th consecutive month of growth.
Good news.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Jefferson_MFG/status/1389506676911390721
Very good news.
But not according to the Office For National Statistics. Where has this report got it's figures from?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/manufacturing-production
Bizarre how these alternative facts get bandied round. According to ONS data, manufacturing output didn't grow at all in December and shrank by 1.8% in January. By March, which as far as I can see is the last official ONS data, it was still 3% down on Feb 2020.
But yeah, believe your alternative facts if you want.
Alternative facts? Are you claiming to know more about UK manufacturing PMI figures than CIPS Billy? Or maybe you’re not googling the correct data Billy?
Conversations like this are a prime reason that I don’t read most of the links on the political threads.
Some posters only post links that support their cause and when another poster puts on something that conflicts with their opinions they challenge the validity of it.
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That's why it pays to read widely, listen to the arguments and make informed decisions hound, the technical political debates here are really good and informative.
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Not if the posts and links are with a biased point of view, as they often are on here and backed up by like minded people.
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nothing wrong with point of view hound, you have one, everyone has one but the more fact it's based on the better it is.
as my squash coach used to say, 'the more you practice the luckier you get'
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nothing wrong with point of view hound, you have one, everyone has one but the more fact it's based on the better it is.
as my squash coach used to say, 'the more you practice the luckier you get'
Your squash coach nicked that phrase from Gary Player.
As I said previously though, many of the points of view on this forum are from a very biased group point of view.
Alternative opinions are often discredited by the group.
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Of course they are if they are not based on fact hound
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Its a fact the trade figures for the UK's trade with India, China, and the USA are included in those percentage figures of the EU's trade with the three countries for the period you quoted Syd, and wil not be the same again especially they are now in the grip of a double dip recession.
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No selby the trade figures for China would NOT be included in the figures for India-EU
this is what I posted selby prove me wrong
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Here are some trade figures for India-EU
''The EU is India's largest trading partner, accounting for €80 billion worth of trade in goods in 2019 or 11.1% of total Indian trade, on par with the USA and ahead of China (10.7%)''
https://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/countries/india/#:~:text=Trade%20picture,the%20total)%20after%20the%20USA.
It’s a fair point. The question that I’d ask is how much the UK benefitted financially from being part of the EU trade deal? Obviously it’s split across the member states and an €80 billion trade deal won’t be split evenly across EU members. So, does the UK benefit more from an individual trade deal rather than a collective one? It’s a genuine question by the way, I’ve no idea of the answer.
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HA, I read somewhere, maybe part of that article that the UK has rollover deals in place with most if not all the countries traded with via the EU, which must I presume have to be renegotiated to incorporate the new circumstances.
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HA, I read somewhere, maybe part of that article that the UK has rollover deals in place with most if not all the countries traded with via the EU, which must I presume have to be renegotiated to incorporate the new circumstances.
Thanks Sid. So, would I be right in thinking that, initially at least, the trade deal with India would be based on a similar value to the UK’s contribution to the EU-India trade deal?
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One would hope so HA, at least, but I don't know.
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HA, I read somewhere, maybe part of that article that the UK has rollover deals in place with most if not all the countries traded with via the EU, which must I presume have to be renegotiated to incorporate the new circumstances.
The government maintains a list of Trade Deals, (most are rollovers), here is the latest update and status of deals struck or in progress as at 1st May....
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries
India is not on that list.
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And in the meantime our trade with the EU is diminishing and our trade with the rest of the world is expanding while they go into a recession.
The next twelve months could be interesting.
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Barnier has just published his diaries, so we'll know a lot more about the title of this thread over the next few weeks or so.
''Tory quarrels determined UK’s post-Brexit future, says Barnier
Revealed: EU chief negotiator’s diaries, The Great Illusion, give blow-by-blow account of moves behind UK’s departure''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tory-quarrels-betrayals-uk-post-brexit-future-barnier-eu
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Barnier has just published his diaries, so we'll know a lot more about the title of this thread over the next few weeks or so.
''Tory quarrels determined UK’s post-Brexit future, says Barnier
Revealed: EU chief negotiator’s diaries, The Great Illusion, give blow-by-blow account of moves behind UK’s departure''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tory-quarrels-betrayals-uk-post-brexit-future-barnier-eu
And incredibly impartial.
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Barnier has just published his diaries, so we'll know a lot more about the title of this thread over the next few weeks or so.
''Tory quarrels determined UK’s post-Brexit future, says Barnier
Revealed: EU chief negotiator’s diaries, The Great Illusion, give blow-by-blow account of moves behind UK’s departure''
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/05/tory-quarrels-betrayals-uk-post-brexit-future-barnier-eu
And incredibly impartial.
I'm sure it's a fair and even-handed representation of the brexit talks.... :silly:
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
Is that an abuse of power?
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Barnier prefers a full English over a croissant.
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HA, I read somewhere, maybe part of that article that the UK has rollover deals in place with most if not all the countries traded with via the EU, which must I presume have to be renegotiated to incorporate the new circumstances.
Thanks Sid. So, would I be right in thinking that, initially at least, the trade deal with India would be based on a similar value to the UK’s contribution to the EU-India trade deal?
The EU doesn't have any specific trade deal with India apart from the standard WTO GSP one-way preferential status
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
Is that an abuse of power?
It is very close to threatening an act of war. There is a hospital on Jersey and to deliberately cut power to it could be seen as an attack threatening lives. If I were a senior British representative within NATO I would be calling France out on this.
Note however that this is one nation, France, behind this, not the EU.
IMHO it is always better to be in Alliances with neighbouring countries.
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Barnier
''In the early hours of Christmas Eve - the very day the Trade and Cooperation Agreement was sealed - Mr Barnier describes the British unexpectedly serving up a dish of revised fish quotas as "a text riddled with pitfalls, false compromises and flashbacks"
looks like they wanted talks to fail? thankfully they didn't and an agreement was reached, well sort of.
Warships ..................... don't forget there's an election
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Barnier
''In the early hours of Christmas Eve - the very day the Trade and Cooperation Agreement was sealed - Mr Barnier describes the British unexpectedly serving up a dish of revised fish quotas as "a text riddled with pitfalls, false compromises and flashbacks"
looks like they wanted talks to fail? thankfully they didn't and an agreement was reached, well sort of.
Warships ..................... don't forget there's an election
I don't think it was wanting the talk to fail, but just doing exactly what they do in every other sphere - try and get away with stuff by not allowing it to be properly scrutinised. Hence turning up at the eleventh hour and trying to not give the other side enough time to read it properly.
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Barnier
''In the early hours of Christmas Eve - the very day the Trade and Cooperation Agreement was sealed - Mr Barnier describes the British unexpectedly serving up a dish of revised fish quotas as "a text riddled with pitfalls, false compromises and flashbacks"
Lol
It even reads like a fairy tale.
Do us a favour Sydney - post a snippet every night about 7pm (BST). It’ll make a change from reading the Gruffalo (not much of a change, mind).
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
Is that an abuse of power?
It is very close to threatening an act of war. There is a hospital on Jersey and to deliberately cut power to it could be seen as an attack threatening lives. If I were a senior British representative within NATO I would be calling France out on this.
Note however that this is one nation, France, behind this, not the EU.
IMHO it is always better to be in Alliances with neighbouring countries.
I’m sure you are right there Dutch but just in case you didn’t see the intended joke in my “abuse of power” words, I was saying it as a joke, you know, in case they cut the power off to Jersey.
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Barnier
''In the early hours of Christmas Eve - the very day the Trade and Cooperation Agreement was sealed - Mr Barnier describes the British unexpectedly serving up a dish of revised fish quotas as "a text riddled with pitfalls, false compromises and flashbacks"
Lol
It even reads like a fairy tale.
Do us a favour Sydney - post a snippet every night about 7pm (BST). It’ll make a change from reading the Gruffalo (not much of a change, mind).
4 years to prepare, looks like this oven ready deal went into the compost tumbler
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Syd, I think you should make this thread your last stand, all this whataboutary is getting you and the disciples exactly nowhere, as last night shows.
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Update from the German car industry on 'they need us more than we need them'.
German exports, 2021 v 2021
total + 16%
rest of EU + 21%
US + 8.8%
China + 37.9%
UK - 13.2%
https://twitter.com/DennisNovy/status/1390696525282615302
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Update from the German car industry on 'they need us more than we need them'.
German exports, 2021 v 2021
total + 16%
rest of EU + 21%
US + 8.8%
China + 37.9%
UK - 13.2%
https://twitter.com/DennisNovy/status/1390696525282615302
Of course they were going to sell more to the rest of the EU once British cars had a 10% tariff on them to knock them out of the market. Any idiot could see that happening. I wonder why so many didn't.
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Is it because everyone who voted leave is an idiot?
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That would be your conclusion, not mine.
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It’s a question, Glyn, not a conclusion.
It’s all in the punctuation.
Edit: actually that might be the wrong question to ask, and it should be this one instead: if every idiot did know, then who are the ‘so many’ who didn’t?
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
Is that an abuse of power?
It is very close to threatening an act of war. There is a hospital on Jersey and to deliberately cut power to it could be seen as an attack threatening lives. If I were a senior British representative within NATO I would be calling France out on this.
Note however that this is one nation, France, behind this, not the EU.
IMHO it is always better to be in Alliances with neighbouring countries.
The hospital on Jersey, (like all hospitals), has an emergency generator in case of power cuts of any type. Also, the French weren't threatening any such thing, it was the words of one French person only - not the French government.
Talk about over reacting! Still, it sells newspapers!
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It’s a question, Glyn, not a conclusion.
It’s all in the punctuation.
Edit: actually that might be the wrong question to ask, and it should be this one instead: if every idiot did know, then who are the ‘so many’ who didn’t?
I'm talking about the idiots who said what has happened wouldn't happen. And then also the idiots who believed them when they said it. Whether it affected their voting intentions I couldn't say, so I haven't.
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Thanks for clearing that up, Glyn.
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It looks like the French are acting as level headed as ever!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56984886
Is that an abuse of power?
It is very close to threatening an act of war. There is a hospital on Jersey and to deliberately cut power to it could be seen as an attack threatening lives. If I were a senior British representative within NATO I would be calling France out on this.
Note however that this is one nation, France, behind this, not the EU.
IMHO it is always better to be in Alliances with neighbouring countries.
The hospital on Jersey, (like all hospitals), has an emergency generator in case of power cuts of any type. Also, the French weren't threatening any such thing, it was the words of one French person only - not the French government.
Talk about over reacting! Still, it sells newspapers!
Hi NNK
After reading the great article linked to by Wilts Rover in a separate thread I can see this looks like an over-reaction.
Maybe not such a large one though. My suggestion was based on, as far as I can see, the fact that a French Government Minister raised the threat of cutting off electricity, and also as far as I could see, no other person of authority in the French Government spoke out against it. The UK delegation at NATO raising the issue would be designed to shame the French Delegation into seeking governmental guidance on a reply, and hopefully would have forced the senior echelons of the French Government to backtrack and officially rescind the threat, thus de-escalating. It is part of what NATO is for.
I get that Hospitals have emergency backup generators. What I don't know in general and for the Hospital in Jersey in particular is whether a hospital can work 100% under a generator (e.g. do any elective surgeries need to be postponed) and how long can it operate under the generator - days, weeks, months? What if something happens to the generator?
Yes of course it sells many newspapers and generates huge numbers of clicks, and is very useful and convenient to play up just before an election.
And by the way, as the article Wilts refers to why on earth was the Bay of Granville Treaty nullified.
And finally, all in all absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.
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''Post-Brexit trade deals mean firms will miss out on freeport benefits
Government admits agreements with 23 countries include clauses prohibiting use of tax breaks''
This on top of any dubious benefit, as some experts are saying freeports take jobs and wealth from other areas.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/may/10/post-brexit-trade-deals-mean-firms-will-miss-out-on-freeport-benefits
Added
''Freeports formed a key part of the Tory election campaign in the north-east, where the Conservative mayor of Tees Valley, Ben Houchen, championed plans for a zone in the area''
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It's well established that Freeports do next to nothing to boost overall economic performance of a wide region. They draw in money and jobs from adjacent areas.
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How times change aye? you put your right foot in, your right foot out ..........
Michael Gove authored a 58-page document attacking the Good Friday Agreement, likening it to the appeasement of the Nazis and even managing to attack the rights of trans people, women and the disabled in the process.
'The Price of Peace' was published by the Centre for Policy Studies in 2000 and written by then home editor of The Times, now candidate to be prime minister, Michael Gove.
Gove described the peace process as a "moral stain," "humiliation," "denial of our national integrity" and "indelible mark against [our Government.]" The pamphlet represents the peace process as a capitulation to the IRA.
https://www.joe.co.uk/news/michael-gove-good-friday-agreement-peace-process-northern-ireland-235438
''UK ministers meet representatives of NI paramilitaries to discuss Brexit
Lord Frost and Brandon Lewis spoke with loyalist delegation this week about border check concerns''
Does this make them te ter terrorists?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/12/uk-ministers-meet-representatives-of-ni-paramilitaries-to-discuss-brexit
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Ah, but he was an expert then so you shouldn't now listen to what he wrote then.
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Interesting read here from an economics journalist who has a very strong track record for getting his shit right.
https://mobile.twitter.com/BenChu_/status/1393153483369500680
tl:dr. After Brexit, the ONS changed the way it records exports. If you use the old method, the drop in UK exports to the EU in March 2021 compared to a year earlier is not 15% as the ONS says and was widely reported here - it is 32%.