Hillsborough inquests:

[bally1950]

Bllx I will.

Has any one ever thought about the Bobbies in the ground trying to save fans lives, trying to get them over the fence,  trying to give the kiss of life to unresponsive people and being kicked and pissed on, then having to go home to families and living that hell for the rest of their lives. How many of you ever gave it a thought or care? answers on a postage stamp 

[BigH]

Anyhow, justice for the 96 will no doubt now morph into compo for the 96. I wonder how much syp third party liability runs into?

Criminal charges for David duckenfield? They won't be happy until he is incarcerated and the key thrown away too I suspect.

I've heard today that some are calling for the resignation of the current chief constable of syp.

This will go on and on and on and on.

It was of course a very very sad day for everybody.

The Current Chief retires in a few months, he was due to go earlier but agreed to stay on until this was done.

I may be missing something, but I don't understand what is achieved by calling for the current Chief Constable to resign.

TRB I think that the fact that he oversaw the incurrence of £24m of legal fees using public money and a two year process defending the indefensible may have had something to do with it.

Yet another error of judgement to compound the multitude of errors made on the day itself and in the intervening years.

What Crompton personally seemed to have failed to 'get' was that the past two years have essentially been an inquiry into the police. In this regard, what the inquiry highlighted was the wretched behaviour and institutionalised deceit among the leadership of the South Yorkshire Force; a deceit that continued up until yesterday.

What a mess.

[Not Now Kato]

Bllx I will.

Has any one ever thought about the Bobbies in the ground trying to save fans lives, trying to get them over the fence,  trying to give the kiss of life to unresponsive people and being kicked and pissed on, then having to go home to families and living that hell for the rest of their lives. How many of you ever gave it a thought or care? answers on a postage stamp 

Another bloody myth which has been disproved completely by this inquest!  The police were neither kicked nor pissed on by the Liverpool supporters.  There is evidence though of police pushing fans back over the fences and back into the congestion; even using their batons to stop them climbing over.

[bally1950]

You are wrong. as others in assumption and what you have read in the papers. Just like the ones who said that the Police blamed the dead Liverpool fans for the disaster. WHICH I MAY ADD THEY NEVER DID. AT NO TIME AT ALL.

£4.5m was put in place by The PCC Dr Billings as he holds the purse strings to help represent members of the SYP at the time of the disaster because they were legally obliged to do so by statute, the remainder was a grant from the government. the same government that gave a figure I believe of £100 mi to the Families to pay their lawyers (who do you think has been paying their fees) do you think they did it for the love of the game?  The same government who allowed all VAT from the sales of the Liverpool anthem to be given to the families association.

SYP were legally bound to pay some legal costs for people serving at Hillsborough at the time as they were serving officers. Before anyone says I talk bullshit... I was on the working party until July 2013- so I do know what I am on about

[bally1950]

Bllx I will.

Has any one ever thought about the Bobbies in the ground trying to save fans lives, trying to get them over the fence,  trying to give the kiss of life to unresponsive people and being kicked and pissed on, then having to go home to families and living that hell for the rest of their lives. How many of you ever gave it a thought or care? answers on a postage stamp 

Another bloody myth which has been disproved completely by this inquest!  The police were neither kicked nor pissed on by the Liverpool supporters.  There is evidence though of police pushing fans back over the fences and back into the congestion; even using their batons to stop them climbing over.



Now you my friend talk utter bollox because I actually saw bruising on bobbies who had to work the next day as a normal PC. Also the smell of urine on their uniform. Myth? go stuff yourself

[bally1950]

Bllx I will.

Has any one ever thought about the Bobbies in the ground trying to save fans lives, trying to get them over the fence,  trying to give the kiss of life to unresponsive people and being kicked and pissed on, then having to go home to families and living that hell for the rest of their lives. How many of you ever gave it a thought or care? answers on a postage stamp 

Another bloody myth which has been disproved completely by this inquest!  The police were neither kicked nor pissed on by the Liverpool supporters.  There is evidence though of police pushing fans back over the fences and back into the congestion; even using their batons to stop them climbing over.


Sorry did not read all the quote. Fans climbing over fences at a football match. Possible pitch invasion, would not be first time it had happened. Get real. If you had the bllx to have done the job what would you have done. Oh wait 27 years then in HINDSIGHT  come up with a plan.

[bally1950]

Anyhow, justice for the 96 will no doubt now morph into compo for the 96. I wonder how much syp third party liability runs into?

Criminal charges for David duckenfield? They won't be happy until he is incarcerated and the key thrown away too I suspect.

I've heard today that some are calling for the resignation of the current chief constable of syp.

This will go on and on and on and on.


You do realise that there are two criminal enquiries going on do you ...Part one is pre kick off and part two is post kick off, there are many twists and turns and if anyone is guilty and as a retired Policeman I will say they should pay the maximum penalty. The inquest was merely to establish how those poor souls died. I think you may find that the CPS will wait until the other enquiries are finalised. I expect certain actions that I will not say yet. But they are quite defining.. You may also finfd that Merseyside Police have some to come for their failings too

It was of course a very very sad day for everybody.

The Current Chief retires in a few months, he was due to go earlier but agreed to stay on until this was done.

I may be missing something, but I don't understand what is achieved by calling for the current Chief Constable to resign.

TRB I think that the fact that he oversaw the incurrence of £24m of legal fees using public money and a two year process defending the indefensible may have had something to do with it.

Yet another error of judgement to compound the multitude of errors made on the day itself and in the intervening years.

What Crompton personally seemed to have failed to 'get' was that the past two years have essentially been an inquiry into the police. In this regard, what the inquiry highlighted was the wretched behaviour and institutionalised deceit among the leadership of the South Yorkshire Force; a deceit that continued up until yesterday.

What a mess.

[Not Now Kato]

Bllx I will.

Has any one ever thought about the Bobbies in the ground trying to save fans lives, trying to get them over the fence,  trying to give the kiss of life to unresponsive people and being kicked and pissed on, then having to go home to families and living that hell for the rest of their lives. How many of you ever gave it a thought or care? answers on a postage stamp 

Another bloody myth which has been disproved completely by this inquest!  The police were neither kicked nor pissed on by the Liverpool supporters.  There is evidence though of police pushing fans back over the fences and back into the congestion; even using their batons to stop them climbing over.



Now you my friend talk utter bollox because I actually saw bruising on bobbies who had to work the next day as a normal PC. Also the smell of urine on their uniform. Myth? go stuff yourself

Really?  Then why was this not brought up at the inquest then?
 
Oh, and as for your abusive remarks?  That rather destroys any credibility your argument may have had in the first place.  If you can't present 'facts' in a sensible and polite way the you might as well give up as you can't expect to be taken seriously.
 
It seems that all the facts were presented at the inquest and they appear to fly in the face of all your suggestions.
 

[silent majority]

What did come out in the inquests was that all the victims, those that had died and those seriously injured, had all urinated involuntary and defecated themselves. Therefore it doesn't surprise me that those having to assist and help had clothes that reflected those smells.

[StocktonRover]

Bally
Perhaps you're too close to the story to see the whole picture.

It's been said over and over, the cover up was from the top down not the bottom up.

[normal rules]

And so the lynch mob is gathering. The witch Hunt is on.

Cc syp suspended. Speakers in Liverpool baying for those responsible to start having sleepless nights.

Charges, convictions, appeals and dont be surprised if the latest inquiry itself is reviewed.

When will the line get drawn in the sand. When will justice be seen to have been done? Another 27 yrs?

[bally1950]

SM. Martin you should not argue with fact. I was with one such retiree today that wants his statement back.
Stocton. Yes my friend I am very very close and that is why what I am telling you is right. I was a PC all my service and all my mates were PC's all theirs. Yes shit falls and us at the bottom over many years and many incidents got shit on.. I am not defending anyone at all as I have previously stated but I DO know more than ever was going to come out. The bravery of many Liverpool fans trying to help the bobbies carry the injured. The blame is with the chiefs and not the indians. You say I am too close. I will take your advice and end my submissions on thisd

[silent majority]

Bally. Sorry Mick but I'm not arguing with the facts I'm just quoting them, as here;

A police constable, Andrew Eddison, who went into the pens to pull people out, said in his statement that “everybody had urinated themselves” and defecated, and that vomit swirled over the bodies and around his feet. There were two piles of bodies at the front, and Eddison said a hand at the bottom of one was pulling at his trouser leg. Once the bodies were finally cleared, it turned out to be a child.

[Dn2Dn0]

It's the continual lies and attempted cover up by the SYP in particular that is shameful. Laying blame on those who are unable to defend themselves. Nowhere, from what I've seen, are people calling for the front line police to be held accountable, it's the hierarchy that breeds the lies.

Regardless if it was 27 years ago or 27 days ago, people were killed unlawfully and those responsible should be made to answer. If 96 policemen had lost their lives that day & the cover up had been to defend fans who had caused their deaths, I wonder if people would be saying well it was 27 years ago, we should just let it lie now.

[bally1950]

Bally. Sorry Mick but I'm not arguing with the facts I'm just quoting them, as here;

A police constable, Andrew Eddison, who went into the pens to pull people out, said in his statement that “everybody had urinated themselves” and defecated, and that vomit swirled over the bodies and around his feet. There were two piles of bodies at the front, and Eddison said a hand at the bottom of one was pulling at his trouser leg. Once the bodies were finally cleared, it turned out to be a child.

Yes I do not doubt that is what happened. As I said. "Does anyone care about the individual bobby there. Answer clearly "NO". My comments are as a direct response the day after to Bobbies when I asked "What was it like" ? Even the ones who I went to see at home on rest days, told the same disgusting story. Some here will say it was orchestrated. that is up to them. As someone has said "The Witch Hunt has begun".. I can tell you now and you all know I have defended the actions of the Police throughout and the judgement of a jury does not alter the fact, nor does it alter the comments made to me after the decision by many and more than not were never in the Police. But the decision has to be accepted.

And what about Andrew Eddison who had to re live that moment. Not me nor any other Policeman since Hillsborough has blamed the innocent dead for what happened. Crushes always come from the back. The design of the Enclosure has also been questioned "Anybody interested"  The Safety Certificate was out of order "Anybody interested?".

NOW THE POLICE DID OBJECT TO THE SEMI BEING THERE WHILST IT WAS CLEAR THE GROUND WAS NOT UP TO IT PHYSICALLY NOR LAWFULLY, GUESS WHO SAID THE GAME HAD TO BE PLAYED THERE....THE BLOODY FA. HAVE THEY BEEN BROUGHT INTO IT.?  There is certainly Corporate Manslaughter and there always was going to be but it is more than the Police who will be in the dock.

[bally1950]

It's the continual lies and attempted cover up by the SYP in particular that is shameful. Laying blame on those who are unable to defend themselves. Nowhere, from what I've seen, are people calling for the front line police to be held accountable, it's the hierarchy that breeds the lies.

Regardless if it was 27 years ago or 27 days ago, people were killed unlawfully and those responsible should be made to answer. If 96 policemen had lost their lives that day & the cover up had been to defend fans who had caused their deaths, I wonder if people would be saying well it was 27 years ago, we should just let it lie now.

DN. I agree BUT it is SOUTH YORKSHIRE POLICE who is being branded and that includes me. I have a right to defend. I am not guilty of anything but I am guilty of Association because I was in SYP. Now nowhere will you have seen anybody in the Police say the dead caused their own deaths, where you did read it was in the newspapers. I can tell you there was a General Force Order telling everybody not to get embroiled in any conversation even off duty as it would find it's way to the press and will be arranged. The result was inevitable. The more serious matters are the two remaining enquiries which now due to the tabloids and the Liverpool Families Group have made the enquiries and any apportion of blame dangerous because of public opinion. Now Mr Billings suspends a Chief Constable who was not in the SYP in 1989 and who agreed to stay in post beyond his retirement date to assist and have no new person brought into the fray if appointed.  Oh yes there is an election next Thursday for PCC and Billings is one of the candidates and guess who has to be in post to continue this issue. Mr Billings ...so inot really worth voting is it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Bally

Word of advice mate. Cool it. You are getting too worked up.

The issue of the design of the terrace and the safety certificate was dealt with at the Inquest. The CPS is now looking at those issues. It has NOT been forgotten.

The reason that the police are in the spotlight right now is obvious if you step back and think about it. Senior coppers lied about what happened. There is prima facie evidence of a major cover up and disinformation campaign orchestrated at senior level.

You might want to defend your own. And I fully accept the difficulty of the police job. But in something as serious as this, Society has a duty to address this. The police don't set their own rules and standards. Not in a civilised society.

[auckleyflyer]

Bally your on the wrong side of history and now fact.
Your too close and too "institutionalized" to rationally draw the correct conclusion as was the whole force! That's the issue and the reason its taken so long and prolonged the agony for so many!
Syp! I'm sad to say if I know of a copper my first question is always "why!!" I would not let any of my children work in such an institution!
As the son of a miner id have been disowned if id have resorted to being a copper! Real last resort type of profession.
Don't defend the indefensible.

[bally1950]

Bally

Word of advice mate. Cool it. You are getting too worked up.

The issue of the design of the terrace and the safety certificate was dealt with at the Inquest. The CPS is now looking at those issues. It has NOT been forgotten.

The reason that the police are in the spotlight right now is obvious if you step back and think about it. Senior coppers lied about what happened. There is prima facie evidence of a major cover up and disinformation campaign orchestrated at senior level.

You might want to defend your own. And I fully accept the difficulty of the police job. But in something as serious as this, Society has a duty to address this. The police don't set their own rules and standards. Not in a civilised society.

Thank you

[bally1950]

Bally your on the wrong side of history and now fact.
Your too close and too "institutionalized" to rationally draw the correct conclusion as was the whole force! That's the issue and the reason its taken so long and prolonged the agony for so many!
Syp! I'm sad to say if I know of a copper my first question is always "why!!" I would not let any of my children work in such an institution!
As the son of a miner id have been disowned if id have resorted to being a copper! Real last resort type of profession.
Don't defend the indefensible.

flyer

I am from Dunscroft, strangely all my family at some time worked down the pit. Two died in Hatfield Main Pit.

Thank you

[GazLaz]

Law suit now opened against SYP, suing them for millions. No surprise.

[bally1950]

Right I will take your advice but will leave with just a few questions as a 65 years old man with a son 23 yrs and a daughter just 10 yrs, and one who challenged the need for swearing at a football ground at Donny and from South Stand only to be told on here that she would hear such language on a school play ground. I have not taken her to a match since and since the Barnsley at home game I have only been twice myself, so here goes.


Hillsboro First.

Why was it necessary to have fences all around the perimeter of that ground and other stadiums in England. Why were they still up after the previous problem with Spurs and Wolves fans.

Why was it necessary to open gate "C" at all and why not just leave the turnstiles to operate.

NOW A GENERAL ONE ON FOOTBALL GROUNDS

Why is it necessary at all for Police to be in the grounds. Crowds are the responsibility of the Stewards.

Well then you wise people.

[bally1950]

Law suit now opened against SYP, suing them for millions. No surprise.

You are totally correct Gaz.. Money always was behind it. ooops sorry should not say nasty things, tut tut  S     O    R    R    Y

[GazLaz]

Thought they wanted closure. This is just dragging it on for another 4 years.

[bally1950]

Oh yes.

Always was going to be stitched on result....JUSTICE ???? bloody hell they must have had the papers ready for a long time or the ink is still wet

[bally1950]

Thought they wanted closure. This is just dragging it on for another 4 years.

AND THE REST

[bally1950]

HEY.

The West Mids are in it too. Must be anybody who has been in the Police AM I ALLOWED TO SAY THAT.

[auckleyflyer]

Bally, your correct in all your points there is no single reason for Hillsborough. People put in positions at the top their not fully capable of happens still! The average pc there that day has nothing to be ashamed of.
Its the cover-up, lies, intimidation of officers witnesses and victims families that is rotten wwithin syp! As happened to miners in 83-84 and troublesome girls in Rotherham.
As an institution its dysfunction!!

[bally1950]

Also it is more easy to challenge authority these days, ask any teacher. Let me tell you this. Steve Rotherham and other MP's are calling for South Yorkshire Police to be scrubbed. IT WILL HAPPEN HAVE NO DOUBT. But it is not because of what is happening, it is purely Political and Cost Cutting, already there is a Yorkshire and Humber Police Service, this incorporates in part West Yorkshire Police areas and North Yorkshire Police areas. The Liverpool families will claim they have been responsible.

Do you know how many serving SYP Officers actually support Liverpool. or How many serving Police Officers actually gave evidence at the Inquest. ? NOpe neither do I but just thought it was worth saying. But I am taking your advice Thank you

[Glyn_Wigley]

Law suit now opened against SYP, suing them for millions. No surprise.

You are totally correct Gaz.. Money always was behind it. ooops sorry should not say nasty things, tut tut  S     O    R    R    Y

How many millions have SYP caused to be spent propping up their lies for the past 27 years? Just asking as you seem to be worried about people receiving compensation they should have had years ago out of the public purse.