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Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 12:31:47 amLike I said last night Tyke. Who is this "EU" that imposed those policies?In your own time Tyke.
Like I said last night Tyke. Who is this "EU" that imposed those policies?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 01:31:02 amQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 12:31:47 amLike I said last night Tyke. Who is this "EU" that imposed those policies?In your own time Tyke. When you're ready.
So Tyke, you wanted Labour to be led by the sort of person who stood proudly in front of an anti-immigrant poster that deliberately echoed Nazi propaganda from the 1930s?And you claim to be a socialist?
Quote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 02:01:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 01:31:02 amQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 12:31:47 amLike I said last night Tyke. Who is this "EU" that imposed those policies?In your own time Tyke. When you're ready.I'm amazed I have to lead you to the water Billy , whether the link offers you the opportunity to drink is of course another matter .http://www.dailyglobe.co.uk/comment/austerity-has-not-been-a-tory-choice-but-an-eu-one/
You said you wanted a Labour Farage. The only thing you criticised about him was his banking background (which is wrong - his background was in the commodities markets). Personally, I find his continued lying, his racism and his borderline treason to me more concerning. But you never mentioned any of those. I wouldn't want a person like Farage within a million miles of any party I supported.
Quote from: tyke1962 on March 07, 2020, 05:48:52 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 02:01:12 pmQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 01:31:02 amQuote from: BillyStubbsTears on March 07, 2020, 12:31:47 amLike I said last night Tyke. Who is this "EU" that imposed those policies?In your own time Tyke. When you're ready.I'm amazed I have to lead you to the water Billy , whether the link offers you the opportunity to drink is of course another matter .http://www.dailyglobe.co.uk/comment/austerity-has-not-been-a-tory-choice-but-an-eu-one/Right.And what coercive action has the EU ever taken against any country for not sticking to the Excessive Deficit Procedure since the Global Financial Crash?
And I'll say again. What sanction is the EU actually applying? Given that, when countries have not brought down their deficit as planned, they haven't been fined.
This thread is a great read on both sides,what is obvious is tyke asks a question and only gets half a answer would love bst and Sydney to answer his questions on the eu and austerity ect.
BP.I'll willingly answer.The root cause of the problems that Italy, Greece and others got into are complex, and tied to the flawed concept of the Euro.Having a single currency means that you have a single interest rate for the entire zone. That is supposed to encourage all parts of that zone to synchronise their economic approaches. But that never happened.In the run up to the start of the Euro, and the way days if the Euro, Germany had a struggling economy. They had inflation and demand that were too low. That was balanced by inflation and demand being too high through southern Europe. In simple terms, Italy and Greece were the market for Germany. And that is how it's supposed to work with a single currency. Peaks and troughs balance out. Germany saves (because people aren't spending much). Greece runs up debts (people are living beyond their means). Each of those would.m be a big problem on its own. But in a shared currency zone, they balance out.The problem came with the GFC.Then the debt markets got scared that Greece's debt wasn't sustainable. And NOW the flaw in the Euro came out. The way you'd deal with debt if you have your own currency is to devalue imtge currency. That sets of inflation and it effectively reduces the value of your debt. Your creditors aren't happy but it's their fault for not doing their due dilligence.But Greece couldn't do that, because they didn't control the value of the Euro.In a common currency, what SHOUKD happen is that everyone is responsible for everyone's debt. They all cover it. So, in the UK, we in Doncaster don't pay our way. We consume more than we make. And we are subsidised by London.That mechanism wasn't there in the Euro. So Greece had no way out. The eventual solution wasnimposed by Germany NOT by the EU. It was for Northern European banks to lend Greece the money to cover their debts, but in the understanding that Greece would get its debt under control by MASSIVE austerity. And I mean massive. I know if public sector workers whose salaries were cut by a quarter in a year.There WAS a balance to that which should have happened. Just as Greece had overspent in the 1990s and given Germany a market, so now Germany should have overspent and given Greece a market to help them out. Germany should have run a mild deficit and let money pour into the Greek economy. There should have been more Germans having expensive holidays in Zante. More investment in hi tech Greek start ups.But that never happened, because Germany is obsessive about inflation.THERE is the problem of European austerity. A flawed concept of the Euro, aligned to obsessive fear of inflation from the right wing Govt that is in power in Germany.Both of those features have absolutely zero to do with OUR relationship with the EU. We are not in the Euro. Our economic policy is not directed by German Ordoliberal economics.That enough to be going on with?
I do find it quite funny that tyke is accussing people of being hypocritical for being Labour supporter's and not wishing to support Brexit (a right-wing Tory project since the mid 1990's, designed ultimately to reduce/scrap worker's rights, environmental protection and turn the country into a tax haven for oligarchs and money lauderers) yet on another thread criticises people for wishing to reform the House of Lords (a left-wing policy since before the formation of the Labour Party) as 'this is what the Tories want so it is wrong'.But as no-one else has mentioned it I wont.
And I'll say again Tyke. What have they done to enforce that.Back in 2008, we said "Yes, whatever" and ignored it.
Quote from: wilts rover on March 08, 2020, 06:08:10 pmI do find it quite funny that tyke is accussing people of being hypocritical for being Labour supporter's and not wishing to support Brexit (a right-wing Tory project since the mid 1990's, designed ultimately to reduce/scrap worker's rights, environmental protection and turn the country into a tax haven for oligarchs and money lauderers) yet on another thread criticises people for wishing to reform the House of Lords (a left-wing policy since before the formation of the Labour Party) as 'this is what the Tories want so it is wrong'.But as no-one else has mentioned it I wont.You'll do well Wilts to rewrite history with someone of my age and trade union background .The old left were against the common market and EEC from the outset , Tony Benn and the trade unions stood alongside Enoch Powell at the 1975 referendum .I haven't moved one inch on the matter but the left of today if you can call them that are the ones who have sold out to the EU project .On the house of lords point let me put it this way to you , how would you feel about a right wing Tory government and an 80 seat majority with Boris Johnson as PM and nobody marking their homework ? .Let's be pragmatic about this and ditch the class warfare shall we .You might want to think about why Johnson wants rid of em if he could get his way .