Congratualtions Keir Starmer

[belton rover]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

I don’t know what you mean, Glyn.

[Glyn_Wigley]

social media doesn't produce the lies johnson does

Absolutely true.  The platform is just that a platform.  What is true is those platforms give much less hiding place on these things and much more visibility.

Imagine what Johnson would have got away with in the days before social media! But no doubt there'd have been some who'd still try and argue that Johnson's actions were somebody else's fault and not Johnson's, just like they do today.

[SydneyRover]

Cheers Belton. It's good to see The Voice Of Reason getting credit now and again for a very valid, truthful point that's been ignored by the lefties.

If there is one good thing about a Labour party getting into power it is the karma of them getting a kicking every minute of every day on social media and news outlets. I wonder how the handful of lefties will handle the abuse their leader would get on here every day?

Whether that'll be Karma Starmer I don't know, in fact, I'm not sure if I'll see another Labour government in power in my lifetime.

blah blah, look at yourself first bb someone that has worked to improve society and you slag him off and try to compare him to johnson

[Glyn_Wigley]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

I don’t know what you mean, Glyn.

Social media was there when Blair was in office. And it's been 14 years of ever-increasing social media since he left office. Where's the stack?

[belton rover]

That’s the whole point, Glyn. He would have got away with many things. Just like Blair probably did.

[SydneyRover]

probably?

[belton rover]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

I don’t know what you mean, Glyn.

Social media was there when Blair was in office. And it's been 14 years of ever-increasing social media since he left office. Where's the stack?

There is absolutely no comparison to social media then and now. Take this forum for example...

[belton rover]

probably?

Of course probably. Just like Johnson would probably have been able to lie and get away with lots of it back then.

[SydneyRover]

Again social media does not invent the lies. Scandals were exposed well before social media it's just and easier way to tell ones story ........... or lies.

[Glyn_Wigley]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

I don’t know what you mean, Glyn.

Social media was there when Blair was in office. And it's been 14 years of ever-increasing social media since he left office. Where's the stack?

There is absolutely no comparison to social media then and now. Take this forum for example...

But social media has scrutinised Blair for a lot longer than they have Johnson. Are you really trying to say that social media stopped scrutinising and listing Blair's actions the second he left office, because if you are saying that you're going to look a bit silly. Where's the stack? If you can't point one out, just tell us.

[belton rover]

Again social media does not invent the lies. Scandals were exposed well before social media it's just and easier way to tell ones story ........... or lies.

I don’tthink anyone has suggested it does, Sydney.

[SydneyRover]

That’s the whole point, Glyn. He would have got away with many things. Just like Blair probably did.

what does this mean then?

[Glyn_Wigley]

That’s the whole point, Glyn. He would have got away with many things. Just like Blair probably did.

'Probably'? It's had twenty years to come out, so where's the stuff he 'got away with' at the time that social media has had twenty years to show everybody? If it's not out now, it couldn't possibly have come out then, so using lack of social media as an excuse falls flat on it's face.

[belton rover]

I liked Blair too. A lot.
But, thinking about BB’s point about social media then and now, if Blair was prime minister now, I suspect the lies would be stacking up, Johnson-esque.

Haven't they stacked up yet then?

I don’t know what you mean, Glyn.

Social media was there when Blair was in office. And it's been 14 years of ever-increasing social media since he left office. Where's the stack?

There is absolutely no comparison to social media then and now. Take this forum for example...

But social media has scrutinised Blair for a lot longer than they have Johnson. Are you really trying to say that social media stopped scrutinising and listing Blair's actions the second he left office, because if you are saying that you're going to look a bit silly. Where's the stack? If you can't point one out, just tell us.

Glyn. A few months back there was a lot of talk on here about misrepresenting posters’ words. You seem to be single handedly bringing that back into the spotlight. Try to be a bit more mature about things.

Social media scrutiny was incomparable 20-30 years ago to today. Of course, over the years, the power of social media has increased, and similarly, the past moves further and further into the past.
In the grand scheme of things, no one really cares about what Blair did in the 90s. Just like Johnson won’t be the topic of conversation in 20 years time. That will probably be another Tory government still in charge because there’s no better alternative.

But none of that is really the point. The point is that today, social media is used to whip up a frenzy of accusations, some valid, some not. It has been a huge platform for many, many voices, otherwise relatively unheard before, to share information and give opinion. This now filters down to you and I like never before.
This has gained incredible momentum in very recent years, despite how long ‘social media’ may have existed previously.

My point about Blair is actually more about Johnson. I know you and others THINK I believe he does no wrong and doesn’t lie, but that’s because of the black or white, with us or agin us attitude many people seem to have.
Let me try and clear this up for you once again: Johnson lies. He is a liar. If the very recent accusations, which are being whipped up via frenzied social media sources, are proved to be true, then he should resign in absolute disgrace.
But I also think that if Johnson was PM when Blair was, he would have got away with much more than he is doing now.

I hope I’ve made it a bit clearer.

[belton rover]

That’s the whole point, Glyn. He would have got away with many things. Just like Blair probably did.

what does this mean then?

See post above.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

For the record, the current "frenzy" was initiated by the time-old idea of newspaper journalists doing their job and investigating, and an ex-aide shining a spotlight on where the skeletons are.

PMs have faced those potential issues for generations. It is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with social media.

[belton rover]

That’s nonsense, Billy.
How many times was your point of view printed in the media, with links to ‘evidence’.
How many times was a piece in The Times, The Guardian, The Sun, The Telegraph, The Mirror etc, etc, etc, followed by repost, after repost, after repost, after repost?
How many times, before social media could you pick up a newspaper and be instantly inundated with an absolute plethora of information which, eventually, could not be ignored?

[SydneyRover]

That’s the whole point, Glyn. He would have got away with many things. Just like Blair probably did.

what does this mean then?

See post above.

this forum and reading links on it from twitter is the only social media I use.

''no one really cares about what Blair did in the 90s. Just like Johnson won’t be the topic of conversation in 20 years time''

I wouldn't bet on that ............ Profumo, Chamberlain ........................

[belton rover]

How many other politicians do you think would have been caught out shagging prostitutes had social media been a thing during Profumo’s time?

[wilts rover]

I think Belton has a point - but it is not the point he is trying to make.

In the age od social media ANYONE can make allegations - and have a big audience for them, true or otherwise.

In the age before social media, only journalists, or other radio, print or tv commentators, could make allegations and have that audience.

The best example is the events that led to Edward VIII's abdication. Notice of which were published all around the world, but the British press at the time were so hand-in-hand with the government and royal family - they refused to let the British people know. That could never happen today.

So really what you are exposing is the lack of scrutiny, or holding to account, there was before social media.

It hasn't made things better or worse, lies still get out there, but it has given a lot more people the access to them.

[belton rover]

Thanks for the back handed compliment wilts, though I’m not sure that’s what it was. You are right, of course, about social media giving more people access. That in itself accentuates whatever claim is being made.

But, that’s different to my point, which I still stand by. If anyone thinks it wasn’t easier to lie, and get away with it, before social media, then they are completely deluded. That applies to the PM and to any body else.

[SydneyRover]

this is a clearer explanation, thank you

[drfchound]

Thanks for the back handed compliment wilts, though I’m not sure that’s what it was. You are right, of course, about social media giving more people access. That in itself accentuates whatever claim is being made.

But, that’s different to my point, which I still stand by. If anyone thinks it wasn’t easier to lie, and get away with it, before social media, then they are completely deluded. That applies to the PM and to any body else.

Good points and well made Belton.
However it seemed very obvious to me what you were alluding to without the long ( and probably necessary for some ) explanation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Belton.

Was social media invented in July 2019?

Point being, how come there weren't huge frenzies over, say Theresa May repeatedly lying and being involved in personal aggrandisement?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Also, are there any examples of previous PMs twice having been sacked from senior jobs for lying before becoming PM?

[belton rover]

What were May’s repeated lies?

[belton rover]

Also, are there any examples of previous PMs twice having been sacked from senior jobs for lying before becoming PM?

What’s that got to do with the social media/lies debate?

[BillyStubbsTears]

What were May’s repeated lies?

Precisely.

Johnson isn't being outed for being a liar because of social media. He is outed for being a liar because he is a habitual, lifelong liar. He is qualitatively different from any previous senior politician, before or during the social media age.

[belton rover]

May wasn’t ‘outed’ by social media as a liar because she wasn’t one. She was just a crap PM.
Johnson is constantly ‘outed’ through social media because he is one, and there is nowhere for him to hide.
I believe that Blair is a dishonest person who hid behind a wonderful smile. If social media had then the power it has today, I think we would have been far more aware of examples of his dishonesty, other than the great big fat one he couldn’t hide.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Sir Keir was impressive at PMQ’s today. He’s clearly able to manoeuvre Johnson in a particular direction of his choosing without him realising it. Johnson got seriously riled and then refused to answer Starmers question about who paid the initial invoice. I got the impression that Starmer knows more than he’s letting on.