Congratualtions Keir Starmer

[BillyStubbsTears]

And that's why I said "not all but many of them".

Question for you. When did you buy your first house?

I bought my first house in 1974 for £4215.
My take home pay at that time was £72 per month.
The mortgage repayment was £44 per month.
My wife worked too as a teacher so her income helped of course.

Hound.

Thanks for that. I agree that the mortgage payments as a proportion of take home income were eyewatering then. It is similar now for a first time buyer. The median top-line salary is about £30,000, so take home on that is likely to be about £2000 (assuming no student loan...)

Average house prices today are currently about £240,000.

Let's assume you have managed to scrape together a £20,000 deposit (good if you can find that...let's assume). The very best deal you can currently get, fixed for 5 years would have repayments over £1000 per month.

So, as a percentage, not so far off your situation in 1974.

I'd note the following then.

1) You'd have benefitted from MIRAS. You were actually subsidised by Govt who allowed you to claim tax back on your interest payments. That went more than 25 years ago.
2) Most importantly, you were buying that in a period over very high inflation and (associated) very high wage growth. taking ONS figures for wage growth, a salary of £72/month in 1974 would have gone up to £450/month by 1990. But your mortgage costs would not have increased. So they mortgage costs become a small fraction of your salary. You take the hit early on, then it becomes easier. That does not happen to people today. A salary of £1000/month in 2008 would perhaps have grown to £1200/month today. The mortgage costs are still very big as a percentage of income.

I know older people don't like to hear this, but we seriously did have the best of everything. And we have left the younger generations with none of those benefits. There's a reckoning coming.

[tyke1962]

And that's why I said "not all but many of them".

Question for you. When did you buy your first house?

I bought my first house in 1974 for £4215.
My take home pay at that time was £72 per month.
The mortgage repayment was £44 per month.
My wife worked too as a teacher so her income helped of course.

Hound.

Thanks for that. I agree that the mortgage payments as a proportion of take home income were eyewatering then. It is similar now for a first time buyer. The median top-line salary is about £30,000, so take home on that is likely to be about £2000 (assuming no student loan...)

Average house prices today are currently about £240,000.

Let's assume you have managed to scrape together a £20,000 deposit (good if you can find that...let's assume). The very best deal you can currently get, fixed for 5 years would have repayments over £1000 per month.

So, as a percentage, not so far off your situation in 1974.

I'd note the following then.

1) You'd have benefitted from MIRAS. You were actually subsidised by Govt who allowed you to claim tax back on your interest payments. That went more than 25 years ago.
2) Most importantly, you were buying that in a period over very high inflation and (associated) very high wage growth. taking ONS figures for wage growth, a salary of £72/month in 1974 would have gone up to £450/month by 1990. But your mortgage costs would not have increased. So they mortgage costs become a small fraction of your salary. You take the hit early on, then it becomes easier. That does not happen to people today. A salary of £1000/month in 2008 would perhaps have grown to £1200/month today. The mortgage costs are still very big as a percentage of income.

I know older people don't like to hear this, but we seriously did have the best of everything. And we have left the younger generations with none of those benefits. There's a reckoning coming.

There's also the matter of the high mortality rate amongst the elderly to consider Billy with the pandemic .

It's going to be one hell of a strategy from Labour to pull this one off .

[drfchound]

Hound, how old were you in 1974 when you got a loan to buy your house? and are most people the same age now able to do the same? It is for most people the biggest purchase they will ever make and if they can't get on the ladder when they are younger chances are it won't happen. And I also agree with bst's point there is massive inequity between areas of the country.

I also agree that there is massive inequality between areas of the country ...... but I included my thoughts on the reasons why that could be so .....just to add balance. 🙂

[BillyStubbsTears]

Hound

Yes, of course there are massive differences between the money people make on the housing lottery.

And that is entirely unfair. So you deal with it by a Wealth Tax. Tax people on the amount their house increases in value.

That would not only reduce that gross inequality. It would also incentivise companies to move away from London and the South East, to areas of the country where house "values" were lower and staff more willing to go and live.

Just needs the political imperative. And that is precisely what our economic troubles after CV-19 will provide.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Tyke.

Do you just argue for arguing's sake,

You complain about us not being socialist enough. I'm giving you textbook socialist policies and you say we can't do that.

[knockers]

Anyway, congratulations to Keir 

[tyke1962]

Tyke.

Do you just argue for arguing's sake,

You complain about us not being socialist enough. I'm giving you textbook socialist policies and you say we can't do that.

No I don't do arguing for the sake of it .

Your going down the wrong route with this , attacking the wealth , the politics of envy , the very thing that gets you routed at elections .

Now you are looking to attack the oldest members of our society , the ones locked down for 12 weeks and the ones most vulnerable to the virus .

Does that seem a reasonable strategy to you ?

I'm from a left wing background but I ain't an idiot either .

You cannot attack the wealth of any demographic and expect to see power , surely we've learned that by now .

The Labour strategy for me over the next four years is to place in play Keynesian economics .

Kick start the economy , get the population spending again .

Tax cuts for minimum wage earners  .

Cut VAT .

Get business moving again , corporation tax cuts and get people back in to work .

The argument is that any kind of austerity leaves our society vulnerable and unprepared , the evidence of this pandemic is all you need to win that argument .

Leave the top end as they are , they do pay the majority of taxation after all in this country .

Let's get the bloody show back on the road .

Yes we are borrowing again but what can this lot in government say about that these days .

They haven't a leg to stand on .

[scawsby steve]

Steve, you have done well there, one out of ten from a no mark.  Miss Beal  and Mr Dixon would have been proud  of you.

You'll not believe this Brian, but I actually was never taught by Miss Beal (Aunty B) or Mr Dixon (Deadshot). For geography I had Bob Oliver, and for science Mr Groom.

As regards Iberian Red, well at least he got out of this sh*t country, I'll give him that. The trouble is, just like Sydney, he can't keep away from our politics.

It baffles me as to why.

Not sure I'd want to be taught by Mr Groom 

Nice one Sydney, I p*ssed myself at that one.

[selby]

  So we are all to trust a new leader that has laid in bed with the lefties in the party  and headed their stance on Brexit for three and a half years, against a large proportion of the parties traditional voters, then has shown his true colours and stabbed them in the back and chucked them on a pile like a used Johnny.
  Not one to turn your back on is our Keir, if he can pleasantly run along with the crowd for three and a half years for his own good, then jump ship and hang the officers, he wants watching.

[BigH]

  So we are all to trust a new leader that has laid in bed with the lefties in the party  and headed their stance on Brexit for three and a half years, against a large proportion of the parties traditional voters, then has shown his true colours and stabbed them in the back and chucked them on a pile like a used Johnny.


For a minute I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson!

Sorry, had to re-read it.

[wilts rover]

So we are all to trust a new leader that has laid in bed with the lefties in the party  and headed their stance on Brexit for three and a half years, against a large proportion of the parties traditional voters, then has shown his true colours and stabbed them in the back and chucked them on a pile like a used Johnny.


For a minute I thought you were talking about Boris Johnson!

Sorry, had to re-read it.

I spilt half a cup of tea reading it - a Boris Johnson fanboy attempting to slag-off a political rival for changing their mind!

Bugger, there goes the other half still laughing at it...

[Iberian Red]

SS

Those people who "take the moral high ground"?

What exactly do you mean by that?

I can't believe someone as intelligent as you is even asking that question. There are countless examples of it, far too many to mention them all on here, but I'll give you a couple of examples.

After her humiliating defeat in the Election, that clown Jo Swinson got on her soapbox and practically accused the nation of being full of racists and xenophobes. Who the f*cking hell does she think she is?

A similar thing was going on with this forum during the last 3 years, with people being accused of being racist and xenophobic because they voted for Brexit. I've never been racist and xenophobic in my entire life, so what right have people who don't even know me to accuse me of those things?

That's what's known as taking the moral high ground, but I think you already knew that.

You've hardly backed up your opinion in a credible way there.
1) You used the word 'practically'.
2) Your own opinion of what others may or may not think of you.
1/10. Must do better.

I hope your understanding of the semantics of Spanish is better than your understanding of the semantics of English.

   

[Iberian Red]

Steve, you have done well there, one out of ten from a no mark.  Miss Beal  and Mr Dixon would have been proud  of you.

As regards Iberian Red, well at least he got out of this sh*t country, I'll give him that. The trouble is, just like Sydney, he can't keep away from our politics.

It baffles me as to why.

The irony! I take it you are an pensioner, but still feel you are entitled to an opinion.
Anyway,I see it as a moral duty to the vulnerable. Those incapable of forming reasoned opinions for themselves. You should thank me.
I await the tag team reply of Statler and Waldorf.

[scawsby steve]

Steve, you have done well there, one out of ten from a no mark.  Miss Beal  and Mr Dixon would have been proud  of you.

As regards Iberian Red, well at least he got out of this sh*t country, I'll give him that. The trouble is, just like Sydney, he can't keep away from our politics.

It baffles me as to why.

The irony! I take it you are an pensioner, but still feel you are entitled to an opinion.
Anyway,I see it as a moral duty to the vulnerable. Those incapable of forming reasoned opinions for themselves. You should thank me.
I await the tag team reply of Statler and Waldorf.

No problem Kermit. By the way, do your fingers still stink of pork?

[DonnyOsmond]

  So we are all to trust a new leader that has laid in bed with the lefties in the party  and headed their stance on Brexit for three and a half years, against a large proportion of the parties traditional voters, then has shown his true colours and stabbed them in the back and chucked them on a pile like a used Johnny.
  Not one to turn your back on is our Keir, if he can pleasantly run along with the crowd for three and a half years for his own good, then jump ship and hang the officers, he wants watching.

What's wrong with being left wing? The party itself is center-left, if that's a problem for you then I'd suggest the party isn't for you.

[selby]

  Stabber Starmer, it has a ring to it, ask poor old Jeremy's mates.

[SydneyRover]

funny he says nice things about you selby, except of course that you betrayed labour by becoming a tory 

[Filo]

  Stabber Starmer, it has a ring to it, ask poor old Jeremy's mates.

Your a strange one, you call Corbyn everything derogatory you can think of, and then call Starmer for trying to have him removed for the good of the Labour Party

[tyke1962]

  Stabber Starmer, it has a ring to it, ask poor old Jeremy's mates.

Politics is a brutal business Selby and the thickest of skin is required .

From what I read Keir hasn't a single enemy in the party even though they probably don't agree with him from time to time .

The strength of his victory suggests he's a decent shot at uniting the party .

A party that was massively in need of credible  and common sense  leadership .

I personally didn't care too much for his brexit stance but we move on .

A new era and I'm happy enough to support the new leader and the party because no matter what within the Labour Movement you are never going to square every circle , it's impossible because nobody yet has ever achieved that as a Labour leader , not even Wilson or Blair .

[idler]

I would rather deal with Keir Starmer than Gove or Farage.
They really down at the bottom of the barrel. How can anybody respect either of that pair or the parties that they represent?

[SydneyRover]

farage and gove leaked out of the barrel and are in the gutter

[selby]

  Don't turn your back on STABBER STARMER

[SydneyRover]

second time you've posted that selby, suffering from attention deficit?

[Iberian Red]

At least it was short and direct. Normally I struggle to read other posts that have paragraphs with hundreds of commas!😁

[Iberian Red]

Steve, you have done well there, one out of ten from a no mark.  Miss Beal  and Mr Dixon would have been proud  of you.

As regards Iberian Red, well at least he got out of this sh*t country, I'll give him that. The trouble is, just like Sydney, he can't keep away from our politics.

It baffles me as to why.

The irony! I take it you are an pensioner, but still feel you are entitled to an opinion.
Anyway,I see it as a moral duty to the vulnerable. Those incapable of forming reasoned opinions for themselves. You should thank me.
I await the tag team reply of Statler and Waldorf.

No problem Kermit. By the way, do your fingers still stink of pork?

That's ok SS. Yes they do. Its maybe better than Statler and Waldorf that get a fist up their backsides!

[Bentley Bullet]

I can just imagine what Iberian Red said when he climbed the Pyrenees...
 
   "A Muppet"

[drfcdrfc]

  Don't turn your back on STABBER STARMER

Did you hear that on the radio?

[Iberian Red]

I can just imagine what Iberian Red said when he climbed the Pyrenees...
 
   "A Muppet"

Get back to what you do best. No not humour. Arguing in an empty room

[tommy toes]

Steve, you have done well there, one out of ten from a no mark.  Miss Beal  and Mr Dixon would have been proud  of you.

As regards Iberian Red, well at least he got out of this sh*t country, I'll give him that. The trouble is, just like Sydney, he can't keep away from our politics.

It baffles me as to why.

The irony! I take it you are an pensioner, but still feel you are entitled to an opinion.
Anyway,I see it as a moral duty to the vulnerable. Those incapable of forming reasoned opinions for themselves. You should thank me.
I await the tag team reply of Statler and Waldorf.

No problem Kermit. By the way, do your fingers still stink of pork?

Did you two go to Percy's an all?

[Bentley Bullet]

I can just imagine what Iberian Red said when he climbed the Pyrenees...
 
   "A Muppet"

Get back to what you do best. No not humour. Arguing in an empty room

I know my humour's shite, but I'm kermitted to improving it.