Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Jonathan on January 14, 2022, 02:01:47 pm
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We had months to plan for this transfer window and have a designated role in the club to facilitate this. The need escalated with the crippling injury crisis leading to the substantial funds being made available and a reassurance that plans were ready to go right at the start of the window.
We’re now almost at the mid-point of the transfer window, and so far it’s three out and one in. The one in only came onto our radar a week ago when he suddenly became available. Of the three out, whilst arguably none were good enough, they represent half of our league goals from forwards all season to date. And the now departed goalkeeper started the last game given our only other senior (albeit inexperienced) goalkeeper was injured with a problem that is still affecting him.
You could be forgiven for asking what the point in planning was if this is where it has got us almost half way through the transfer window. Had we not bothered planning at all, would we be any worse off than this?
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We were told we were ready to go at the start of the window, we can’t keep hanging on, can’t anyone at the club see any urgency, we look at other clubs getting in players left right and centre while we sit here appearing to have accepted our fate
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With additions as soon as the window opened, that might have seen us beat Fleetwood.
It almost feels as though the club are writing off the Wigan game and whilst it will be almost impossible to get the win, with 3 or 4 additions in place for Wigan instead of just Agard, we might have had half a chance.
If we lose to Wigan and teams above us pull further away then it makes a mockery of the lack of urgency in bringing in new players.
We needed new players as of yesterday and if we don't get 2 more in BEFORE Cambridge then that is another game potentially chucked down the drain.
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It is frustrating given that since RW’s departure we were still likely to be in the bottom four come January (we haven’t helped our cause losing the last two games to poor opposition) & therefore identifying & getting players in asap, was something I think most of us expected.
I appreciate we don’t want knee jerk signings aka Dodoo, but these games in January could well seal our fate, one way or another.
The board & management will have recognised that. We do not have the luxury to procrastinate.
Look at the upcoming fixtures.
It really is do or die time.
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Feels like we're actually preparing for next season TBH - which in itself is probably not the worse thing. It's just the club dangle a little bit of hope and expectation in front of us and we all start being positive..... only to get these hopes dashed.
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Very quiet and very little coming out of the club. That’s ok providing actions speak louder than words and the players come in. I have no faith that the people in charge of transfers will suddenly become good at their jobs. More out than in so far. Time to do the deals yet, we will see.
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We may well end up with a better squad at the end of the window but it feels apathetic at the moment
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Honestly think the 2 defeats have damaged us.
Iv no doubt at all players were lined up/agreed. I imagine they have changed their minds after our gap to safety has increased.
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All the more reason to get deals done. Slow and ponderous as usual really.
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Gary Mc said in a interview yesterday they had 6 or7 contract offers to the targets identified. What more can they do. If a player doesn’t want to join it’s not the clubs fault. GaryMc sounded real positive on some though. The club can not win either way. Jacobs for instance has declined the offer.
I understand the urgency but I’d prefer the right people in and build from that whatever league we’re in.
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Two more defeats and no body will want to come. Two of the four players we had agreed have pasted their deadlines we are now looking at others.
With three loans gone why have we not been able to bring in more loans.
GMC can sound as positive as he wants but actions speak louder than words and it’s not happening on the pitch or the in transfers yes we had one drop in our lap.
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What gets me is that pre January 1st, it was all on, who can we get in to help us in the relegation battle, to get us up the table. We then have two important six pointers which we lose with no new recruits and it firms up our position at the bottom of the table. We sign Agard, but 14 days into the window, it is a case now given the two six pointers lost and position of the table, that given the early inactivity, we are now, or alot of fans are thinking, we best plan for league two, and the players coming in fit for league two too.
So in less than 2 weeks since the start of the window, we have not acted quickly, not strengthened with planning in advance to ensure we are stronger for the two six pointers. If we had beaten Morecambe and Fleetwood, and i appreciate it was a big IF at the time, then we would have been right in the mix for survival. Now we have reacted as Jonathan states quickly to bring in Agard, and decided to forgo Dahlberg, but it doesn't give the sense of great planning for what was and is a fundamental transfer window.
It really is beginning to feel like we have been planning for league two for quite a while, as Baldwin said in September, we are not in a relegation battle, quite right, we are well below it!
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We are not in a battle to do that our troops needed reinforcements. It’s an acceptance where we limply rollover.
I did expect one or two in today it’s not happening not good is it.
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We might have been in for half a dozen players but they might have declined our offer for numerous reasons, ie location, length of contact. Not many businesses air their appointment misses in public so why should football clubs
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It’s the same old excuses given out about the delays and a lack of recognition from those in charge that results by the club and it’s performances are actually down them. … for the saying goes “You get what you pay for”. We’re just bottom trawling now , looking for that cheap players no other club wants !
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GB said we could have had 3 or 4 in but we are waiting for the 4 we’ve offered terms to first that’s what GMC wants. Deadlines have gone on two. Yes we could have offered others contracts if it’s half a dozen and they’ve refused then we are not looking good.
Are parent clubs not allowing loans to come as well.
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To live in a perfect world where everything goes to plan. Some people make life very simple.
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To live in a perfect world where everything goes to plan. Some people make life very simple.
But the club doesn't seem to be able to adapt to things that don't go to plan.
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Boston United have just signed Hanson fromFarsley Celtic. Yes he is 34, but plenty of league exp and knows where the goal is. He could have done a job for us. Boston have him till end of season so short term deals are out there.
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I think the problem is transfers are a negotiation. It seems we generally set (or renew) a budget at a set point and ask the manager to live within that budget. But to have any short-term impact you have to be more flexible than that, even if it means spending extra sometimes.
Secondly, I think when the club sacked Wellens on 3rd Dec, they genuinely hoped it would have an 'impact' on our season. That didn't materialize because of a) the lack of quality in the squad was much bigger than we/they anticipated b) their slow and methodological interview process c) injuries (arguably also, D) GM has had little impact, but I will reserve judgment). Fast-forward 6 weeks later and we have lost some absolutely crucial crucial games and now our chances of staying up are basically nill.
It's hard to take, but for a club that positions itself as 'prudent', we must start planning now for next year. If that means the transfers will take longer but are more thought out I would take it.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
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They have planned if you listen to the interviews! Things don't happen all at once.
You have to respect GMs choices. He's already acted to get Agard in. He's already told us about Jacobs who seems to have dithered and wants a chance to stay where he is for now, so I'm sure GM will look at other options on the list. Some he'll give time to, some he won't.
We've no reason to believe he won't stick to the deadlines he's set aside for each acquisition.
As they said, the next 7 days or so will tell us more about who he's targeted. It may also mean there's scope at the end of the window to do more business.
Let them get on with it!!
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Well said DonnyBaz
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
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Boston United have just signed Hanson fromFarsley Celtic. Yes he is 34, but plenty of league exp and knows where the goal is. He could have done a job for us. Boston have him till end of season so short term deals are out there.
I'd hope we weren't shopping in the same shop as Boston. :laugh:
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It’s the same old excuses given out about the delays and a lack of recognition from those in charge that results by the club and it’s performances are actually down them. … for the saying goes “You get what you pay for”. We’re just bottom trawling now , looking for that cheap players no other club wants !
WUM!!
None of that is actually true but what do you care?
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
Then you get into the realms of being desperate and over paying.
Let’s face it, we are very very likely to be playing in L2 next season whoever we sign. We will be able to sign better players in the summer than what are available now. I just hope we don’t get lumbered with 2/3/4 players that we sign this window, thanking you a decent % of the budget, when we could have attached better in the summer.
That’s probably what’s going to happen.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
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Lot of people know a lot on here…………or do they?
You don’t want to know how difficult it is to get players to sign for a team at the bottom of the league…..they change their minds, they rethink the situation and they all have agents who are looking at less money to line their pockets……
.I hope Agard is the only one we sign, and we get 3-4 loaners to get us to the end of the season……..
Just my opinion
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But we not even signed any loans we won’t be lumbered with them and we have 2/3 loan spaces now.
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Rather than pontificating and guessing I think we should all wait and see until the end of the window when Sue Gray will submit her findings on how well the club did in recruitment.
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We’ve basically given up on this season. New signings should have been ready to sign on Jan 1st. That would have given us a fighting chance. What the hell has Younger etc been doing since August ?
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They have planned if you listen to the interviews! Things don't happen all at once.
You have to respect GMs choices. He's already acted to get Agard in. He's already told us about Jacobs who seems to have dithered and wants a chance to stay where he is for now, so I'm sure GM will look at other options on the list. Some he'll give time to, some he won't.
We've no reason to believe he won't stick to the deadlines he's set aside for each acquisition.
As they said, the next 7 days or so will tell us more about who he's targeted. It may also mean there's scope at the end of the window to do more business.
Let them get on with it!!
Fair points.
I don’t like to go about acting like I think I’m right all the time, and I accept the counter arguments happily. I think I’ll put the opening post down to an expression of frustration on my part.
I won’t be one of the ones demanding that the board be sacked, or the manager be replaced. I just want the best for the club and the team, and more than anything I want us to be in a position to get results to shut the Netto mob up and restore a bit of genuine pride.
We are fortunate to have a club that has lots of good people working within it. These are imperfect times and not everything can run smoothly. We’ll see where we are over the next week or two and in the mean time the best thing we can do as supporters is encourage the team to compete in the coming games.
I am, as always, behind the manager and the club.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
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They have planned if you listen to the interviews! Things don't happen all at once.
You have to respect GMs choices. He's already acted to get Agard in. He's already told us about Jacobs who seems to have dithered and wants a chance to stay where he is for now, so I'm sure GM will look at other options on the list. Some he'll give time to, some he won't.
We've no reason to believe he won't stick to the deadlines he's set aside for each acquisition.
As they said, the next 7 days or so will tell us more about who he's targeted. It may also mean there's scope at the end of the window to do more business.
Let them get on with it!!
Fair points.
I don’t like to go about acting like I think I’m right all the time, and I accept the counter arguments happily. I think I’ll put the opening post down to an expression of frustration on my part.
I won’t be one of the ones demanding that the board be sacked, or the manager be replaced. I just want the best for the club and the team, and more than anything I want us to be in a position to get results to shut the Netto mob up and restore a bit of genuine pride.
We are fortunate to have a club that has lots of good people working within it. These are imperfect times and not everything can run smoothly. We’ll see where we are over the next week or two and in the mean time the best thing we can do as supporters is encourage the team to compete in the coming games.
I am, as always, behind the manager and the club.
Nicely put
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We’ve basically given up on this season. New signings should have been ready to sign on Jan 1st. That would have given us a fighting chance. What the hell has Younger etc been doing since August ?
That's because it doesn't work like that.
You can plan to have as many players lined up as you like but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will all fall into place.
Clubs can agree to let players go many weeks in advance, but in the few days leading up to the actual agreed date a player can change his mind, the club can change its mind, the club can have further injuries affecting their choice and in this day and age Covid can and does have an impact.
I know the club have at least 3 more players ready, maybe even 4, but announcements will be delayed by a few days so as to make doubly sure none of the above can impact further than it already has done.
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I hope some fresh faces, with the right quality in the right areas, arrive and if they do, you never know what may materialise on the results front. Realistically, it's not going to be enough to stay up so the best we can hope for is the right foundations are laid for next season and beyond.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
Is this referring to a relegation release clause vs a relegation wage drop perhaps?
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
Is this referring to a relegation release clause vs a relegation wage drop perhaps?
Exactly right.
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Boston United have just signed Hanson fromFarsley Celtic. Yes he is 34, but plenty of league exp and knows where the goal is. He could have done a job for us. Boston have him till end of season so short term deals are out there.
I'd hope we weren't shopping in the same shop as Boston. :laugh:
Boston’s current first team would probably put our lot to the sword.
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We’ve basically given up on this season. New signings should have been ready to sign on Jan 1st. That would have given us a fighting chance. What the hell has Younger etc been doing since August ?
That's because it doesn't work like that.
You can plan to have as many players lined up as you like but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will all fall into place.
Clubs can agree to let players go many weeks in advance, but in the few days leading up to the actual agreed date a player can change his mind, the club can change its mind, the club can have further injuries affecting their choice and in this day and age Covid can and does have an impact.
I know the club have at least 3 more players ready, maybe even 4, but announcements will be delayed by a few days so as to make doubly sure none of the above can impact further than it already has done.
I understand things can change but it always seems to happen at Rovers. Every transfer window all we here is “we’re trying” or “we need to be patient”. Lots of other clubs don’t struggle to bring players in, take Fleetwood for example. It just feels like the delay in bringing players in has sealed our fate. Including Wigan tomorrow and Cambridge on Tuesday, that’s 9 points we’ve pretty much give up on trying to win. If 3 or 4 deals are ready then why delay them. Push harder to get those deals done ASAP. Our board, management team are far too patient when it comes to transfers
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
If I’ve misinterpreted what you wrote in reply to my post I suggest you misinterpreted what I meant
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=283579.msg1125087#msg1125087
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Why do people not understand, its frustrates me so much.
No matter what we plan it is ultimately upto the player who he joins.
Upto the player to agree terms with his old club if tgsts part of what's needed to sign
Upto the clubs when they release a loan.
Put in that other clubs will be also putting offers in for the player and they are taking time to decide or alternatively possibly waiting for a better offer / club.
The planning we can do is put in offers to club or player, after that it is out of their control.
Just don't get how nobody can understand this.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
If I’ve misinterpreted what you wrote in reply to my post I suggest you misinterpreted what I meant
https://www.drfc-vsc.co.uk/index.php?topic=283579.msg1125087#msg1125087
No I haven’t, start again.
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I can't believe the plan was to be at this stage of the window with only one in, who sounds like we picked up at short notice. In which case the plan was to have 0 signings at this stage. So it can't be going to plan.
Part of me thinks we just struggle to sort signings because we're not that attractive right now and our stance on paying agents might not help get deals "over the line". Could be that we've changed plans now and decided to wait till the summer which is probably the smart thing to do.
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
Is this referring to a relegation release clause vs a relegation wage drop perhaps?
Exactly right.
Pretty standard I would think no? Protects the club as well as the player
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Think the certain relegation wage drop clause in the contracts we've offered to perspective players has anything to do with lack of activity?
Imagine going for a job knowing you'll have to take a pay cut in 6 months. You'd probably stick your current job out like
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It’s not going to be easy attracting players the situation we are in. We could potentially do more harm than good in the next two weeks. Targets at the start of the month could have been put off by recent form.
Don't buy that. If they're getting a decent length contract on decent money I would not imagine league one or two makes much difference to a lot of players.
You'd be mistaken. The club has to have a relegation cause built into the contract, so it does matter!
They don’t have to, you’ve already stated non of our contracted players have relegation clauses
No I haven't.
You're misinterpreting something I've already stated. You should try reading what people actually write before trying to correct them.
Is this referring to a relegation release clause vs a relegation wage drop perhaps?
Exactly right.
Pretty standard I would think no? Protects the club as well as the player
Yes it is.
It does protect both, the club guarantee a certain length of contract so the player will know his contract is honoured no matter the division the club are in, but at the same time they also agree a reduction in salary if relegation happens.
The club benefits because they know they have the players available the next season and don't have to start recruiting a whole new squad. And that's the point I made on a previous post, i.e. that our contracts with players runs beyond the end of this season.
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So what your saying SM is that the club are not deliberately cocking about with transfers just to pee off a few over zealous supporters?
Damn........
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Lol
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As has been already said, those last two defeats, especially the capitulation at Morecombe, have really done for us.
Instead of being able to pick up up & coming talent because there’s a realistic chance of us staying in this division, we have to accept we’re reduced to picking up & waiting for ‘left overs’.
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As has been already said, those last two defeats, especially the capitulation at Morecombe, have really done for us.
Instead of being able to pick up up & coming talent because there’s a realistic chance of us staying in this division, we have to accept we’re reduced to picking up & waiting for ‘left overs’.
I think the term ‘left overs’ is disrespectful to both player and club. Recruiting is harder when you’re in our position that’s true. But to suggest everybody else gets first pick and we get what’s left is not an accurate reflection. Our club is highly respected in the football world and on balance we do attract players who have other choices.
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Let’s just see what happens over the next few days and week(s). I wish I hadn’t started this thread, but it generates a debate we can’t hide from and one that goes on anyway, often in a more childish context.
The last thing we need is more negativity around the club, so let’s wait for some positive news on incomings and do our best to support an upturn in fortunes however we can.
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With all due respect Martin, in the last window we were in for’ Will Grigg. He chose a club higher in the division. Being anchored to the foot of the table is not a great attraction for players of the calibre to either keep us in this division or ‘tear up trees’ in Lg2, despite the esteem the club is held in within the ‘football world’.
‘Left overs’ was a clumsy description born of the frustration I feel from the position the club is currently in.
I’ll be there today hoping for the best, fearing for the worst.
Gary McSheffrey has a massive job to do in the next season & a half. I truly hope he can recruit well.
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We are very good at signing players that were good a few years ago but have done nothing for the last few years. Agard, Bogle, Hiwula being three. It’s a dangerous game. Everything good we have done over the last 20 years has been built around getting the best years of players. The list of players that have played the best football of their career at our place is very long. I don’t like how we are going at the minute. It’s all extremely “A B C” recruitment.
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With all due respect Martin, in the last window we were in for’ Will Grigg. He chose a club higher in the division. Being anchored to the foot of the table is not a great attraction for players of the calibre to either keep us in this division or ‘tear up trees’ in Lg2, despite the esteem the club is held in within the ‘football world’.
‘Left overs’ was a clumsy description born of the frustration I feel from the position the club is currently in.
I’ll be there today hoping for the best, fearing for the worst.
Gary McSheffrey has a massive job to do in the next season & a half. I truly hope he can recruit well.
Leftovers isn't that clumsy a description of what happened at the end of last summer. Dodoo was a leftover. No one wanted him enough to sign him during the transfer window. Including us.
This window hopefully it's a different story. Agard is a decent start
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We are definitely behind with signing players we need. The plan they drew up obviously isn’t working at the minute, even though they sacked the manager in plenty of time.
I understand there are three parties involved in a player transfer, but we all knew that including the board, but still we have the same situation we always have. Ostriches with heads in the sand come to mind!.