Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: scawsby steve on May 03, 2018, 04:05:18 am
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Why have the budget talks been put back to next week, and why does Fergie look so sick about it? also, Dickos said in one of his posts that he'd heard a bad rumour from within the club. Something doesn't feel right to me; I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
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Could it simply be that Fergie needs to get his shopping list together, with prices, as these will vary?
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Oh and he always looks sick!
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Deflection tactic to take pressure off recent poor performances?
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Deflection tactic to take pressure off recent poor performances?
Or have the recent poor performances been a way of drawing attention to the need for an increased budget? Either way it's us plebs that pay to watch who'll get the short end of the stick.
Politics in football, whatever next?
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Maybe they want the players that are definitely going not to know until after the last game in case they are needed.
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
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Something's going to have to give sooner or later...
Either Ferguson accepts whatever budget he gets given and uses it to get the best squad possible, or he buggers off now.
What's a low budget in his eyes might be perceived as a big budget by a different pair of eyes.
If he goes into next season still inadvertently whining about the budget after a defeat, moaning about strength in depth (and probably a lot more when the cameras are switched off), that's a really bad situation.
In fairness to him, I think the board should have let him know by now what he's dealing with for the next 12 months - the fact they haven't makes me wonder if they're totally 100% convinced he's the right man, or if they also have lingering doubts.
Do we know that the board haven't told him what the budget is?
I assumed that the X year plan came with financials.
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So the players find out there futures today from DF so those questions will be answered shortly at least..It's silly season at the minute though isn't it..Heard so many rumours this week from takeovers to Copps going Oldham to budget reductions etc.
It's the same every year at this time,but when the dust settles none of them normally pan out to be true.
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The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
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The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
So I assume he's said what he wants and Is waiting for an answer whether he can gave that or not?
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Does anyone think that other clubs place any store in what impact the allotted budget has on its possible season’s out come . We are only
guessing what our budget is or was in the case of previous seasons , yet we get across the finish line without going bust or talk of wages not being paid . DF wants more to spend yet it’s unlikely he’ll get any more than previously. Nothing has changed where the level of supporter is concerned. Championship football would bring in larger away support but we still wouldn’t fill the Keepmoat.
IMO He could want to strengthen where historicaly we have had problems like defence. Yet he has let it known it’s forwards are his biggest problem with lack of goals . But either way he won’t get a great deal more than before .
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Does anyone think that other clubs place any store in what impact the allotted budget has on its possible season’s out come . We are only
guessing what our budget is or was in the case of previous seasons , yet we get across the finish line without going bust or talk of wages not being paid . DF wants more to spend yet it’s unlikely he’ll get any more than previously. Nothing has changed where the level of supporter is concerned. Championship football would bring in larger away support but we still wouldn’t fill the Keepmoat.
IMO He could want to strengthen where historicaly we have had problems like defence. Yet he has let it known it’s forwards are his biggest problem with lack of goals . But either way he won’t get a great deal more than before .
If that is the case then the 5 year plan goes out of the window. Wasn't part of the plan to consolidate this season and then look to advance next season? Is so that is not going to happen without an increase in spending.
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How does the plan work .
How do we measure it.
What are it’s aims.
When did it start .
Who is involved and what is their part.
5 year plans are for industries not sports .
Variables would have to be factored in like . Injuries . Transfer dealings in/ out . They do not exist it is a myth. It’s meant keep punters from asking too many questions about what’s happening or why it isn’t .
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How does the plan work .
How do we measure it.
What are it’s aims.
When did it start .
Who is involved and what is their part.
5 year plans are for industries not sports .
Variables would have to be factored in like . Injuries . Transfer dealings in/ out . They do not exist it is a myth. It’s meant keep punters from asking too many questions about what’s happening or why it isn’t .
I wish I could answer your questions Brian but I am as cynical as you appear to be. I am sure some disciple will have an answer for you though.
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If my wife wanted to buy a suite we'd look at what is on offer. If the dearest one isn't good value a cheaper adoption might leave you with enough for another piece of furniture.
I would imagine it is something similar with footballers. The board will surely want value for money realistically. Bury's record over the last couple of seasons has been terrible for buying older players on high wages for little return. Compare them with Accrington and Shrewsbury.
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
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The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
Who’s that Club Doncaster or Doncaster Rovers Ltd?
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The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
Who’s that Club Doncaster or Doncaster Rovers Ltd?
It won't be Doncaster Rovers Ltd, Steve.
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Since when was Doncaster Rovers Ltd ever involved?
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If this thread is anything to go by, it's going to be a long summer!
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
I am sure that if they are spending a lot of money they will be looking into the players recommended by the manager before backing his judgement.
Roll on August.
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Please can we go back to the times where the transfer business and club budgets was all carried out behind closed doors, perhaps with a bit of press speculation about transfers!!
These days fans seem to want to know all information, now, and if we don't get it, it's not good enough or the club has something to hide.
Not having a go at any particular poster(s) however, just my views. Let them get on with it and we'll turn up in August supporting the team as we always do?
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Since when was Doncaster Rovers Ltd ever involved?
For quite some time. Patienceform no longer exists.
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I can remember watching that interview with Mike Ashley the Newcastle owner and I see to recall he mentioned something like a 5-year plan he set out but by the time you are half way through it everything has changed that quickly in football that the plan is actually well off again.
I suppose that then ties in with when we came back to league one last year and Fergie mentioned that things had changed so much since we were last in this league ( only 1 season).
It seemed in that time that league one budgets had gone up considerably in that timescale.
I suppose you have to have some sort of plan but it shows what the guys running the club have to try and deal with.
I was thinking possibly the reason for the delay could be numerous things, for example, there is not just one club's budget to work out in Club Doncaster.
So Eg Rovers and belles and Dons all put their budget requirements in and you have several to try and deal with rather than just DRFC.
If that was the case there is an awful lot to do to get all the income estimates and 3x requested budgets together, especially if all requested budgets are looking a lot higher than what you thought.
There will be so much going on. So a week wait really is not that long at all, plus the season will have only just ended with things like playoffs etc still going on.
All normal stuff going on I think.
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Why are they non-football people?
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I can remember watching that interview with Mike Ashley the Newcastle owner and I see to recall he mentioned something like a 5-year plan he set out but by the time you are half way through it everything has changed that quickly in football that the plan is actually well off again.
I suppose that then ties in with when we came back to league one last year and Fergie mentioned that things had changed so much since we were last in this league ( only 1 season).
It seemed in that time that league one budgets had gone up considerably in that timescale.
I suppose you have to have some sort of plan but it shows what the guys running the club have to try and deal with.
I was thinking possibly the reason for the delay could be numerous things, for example, there is not just one club's budget to work out in Club Doncaster.
So Eg Rovers and belles and Dons all put their budget requirements in and you have several to try and deal with rather than just DRFC.
If that was the case there is an awful lot to do to get all the income estimates and 3x requested budgets together, especially if all requested budgets are looking a lot higher than what you thought.
There will be so much going on. So a week wait really is not that long at all, plus the season will have only just ended with things like playoffs etc still going on.
All normal stuff going on I think.
The Belles aren't part of Club Doncaster.
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I can remember watching that interview with Mike Ashley the Newcastle owner and I see to recall he mentioned something like a 5-year plan he set out but by the time you are half way through it everything has changed that quickly in football that the plan is actually well off again.
I suppose that then ties in with when we came back to league one last year and Fergie mentioned that things had changed so much since we were last in this league ( only 1 season).
It seemed in that time that league one budgets had gone up considerably in that timescale.
I suppose you have to have some sort of plan but it shows what the guys running the club have to try and deal with.
I was thinking possibly the reason for the delay could be numerous things, for example, there is not just one club's budget to work out in Club Doncaster.
So Eg Rovers and belles and Dons all put their budget requirements in and you have several to try and deal with rather than just DRFC.
If that was the case there is an awful lot to do to get all the income estimates and 3x requested budgets together, especially if all requested budgets are looking a lot higher than what you thought.
There will be so much going on. So a week wait really is not that long at all, plus the season will have only just ended with things like playoffs etc still going on.
All normal stuff going on I think.
The Belles aren't part of Club Doncaster.
ooooppppssss
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Since when was Doncaster Rovers Ltd ever involved?
For quite some time. Patienceform no longer exists.
[/quote] from vaya
Quote from: steve@dcfd on Today at 01:13:50 PM
Quote from: the vicar on Today at 10:56:41 AM
The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
Who’s that Club Doncaster or Doncaster Rovers Ltd?
It won't be Doncaster Rovers Ltd, Steve.
[/quote]
Doncaster Rovers Ltd came in to fruition with a change of name in April 2017 and majority of shares are in the name of Club Doncaster Ltd now I believe.
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I've always found it odd how Rovers seem to dither with their plans for the following season. How many out of contract players (that we've wanted to hang on to regardless of division) have we lost over the years because we let a lot of their contracts run down to the last minute?
I understand the club needs a degree of certainty regarding which division it'll be in and likely income from season ticket sales, but a lot of other clubs seem to move fast (remember Derby snapping up Greeny/Roberts in the blink of an eye?) and it can leave you grasping at your second/third choice signings.
Not sure if the owners/board have a lot of their focus on other business interests which prevents them from being focused on DRFC, but I can sympathise with Ferguson because he will be judged on his signings and the performance of the team next season, and these talks will have an impact on that.
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Whatever is happening it's going to make the sponsors lunch this afternoon very interesting!
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If this thread is anything to go by, it's going to be a long summer!
I think probably best to give the place a wide berth for a couple of weeks and let the annual moan fest dissipate.
A month and a bit and we’ll be able to bask in England showing the world how to play football...
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Why are they non-football people?
Well the richest shareholder/director isn't that interested in football.
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Ahhh, the sweet smell of sarcasm, Billy. ;)
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Why are they non-football people?
Well the richest shareholder/director isn't that interested in football.
Not to be pedantic but the majority of the shares now are held by a single company it seems.
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From Paul Goodwin Twitter
Darren Ferguson says he expects to find out his budget tomorrow. He's spoken to the out of contract lads about his plans. #drfc
Ferguson: "Whatever budget I get, the first thing I'll be doing is offering James Coppinger a contract." #drfc
Also from Jonathan Buchan
Every player at the club been spoken to and informed whether they can go or in the plans next season.
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Baudry pls
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Good thing they pay money to "football people" (what even is that) to make footballing decisions then eh.
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Why are they non-football people?
Well the richest shareholder/director isn't that interested in football.
How do you know? If you were ever to have a conversation with him you would realise he knows an awful lot more than he ever makes out. He hides his light under a bushel very very well.
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Why have the budget talks been put back to next week, and why does Fergie look so sick about it? also, Dickos said in one of his posts that he'd heard a bad rumour from within the club. Something doesn't feel right to me; I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
its not budget talks its a budget decisions talks are all done
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Perhaps the board have looked at his list of targets and aren't impressed with the direction he wants to go.
It would be nice if they actually knew the targets being non football people.
Why are they non-football people?
Well the richest shareholder/director isn't that interested in football.
How do you know? If you were ever to have a conversation with him you would realise he knows an awful lot more than he ever makes out. He hides his light under a bushel very very well.
You are not the only one to have had a conversation with him and whilst he may know an awful lot more than he makes out it doesn't change the fact that he is not that much of a football fan.
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I didn't say I was the only one, but can you tell me what you mean by 'he isn't that much of a football fan' and you claim that's a fact? And can someone define what being interested in football means? Does not actually owning a football club and presiding over a board of directors of a football club mean that you must have more than a passing interest?
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It’s it about time that we had a supporters representative on the board to liaise on behave the supporters to help remove misleading speculations about budgets etc. Any decisions of the owners , I’m sure are made in the best interests of the club etc , yet it’s the constant and often ill informed speculation throughout a season that can lead to false rumours .I know trust is expected where decisions are made but our “meet the owners” events seldom provide any real insight as to what is really happening ,only that questions are asked without knowledge or actual facts. Thousands of supporters are required to keep the club viable yet still more are required if the board have not got keep picking up the short fall . Supporters representatives would at least build more understanding of the day to day events . IMO
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In the last couple of years all football clubs have had to meet with supporters through a mixture of supporter boards, fans parliaments and other constructions. Both the EFL and EPL have rules and regulations instructing clubs on the how and the why's of meeting with supporters and the types of subject matters and questions that must be addressed. For those of you with an interest here's the EFL section;
https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/sections-10--11---association-and-dual-interests-and-additional-provisions/
Now why do I mention this? Because on numerous occasions I've mentioned on this very forum that financial matters and budgets are legitimate questions to be asked of the club and answers have to be provided. And for some unknown reason posters on this site refuse to believe that anybody does know what the budgets and financial undertakings of the club are. The supporters board have asked these questions and been given answers.
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Brian, do you think that any board member should reveal exactly what has been discussed at board level?
It might take two or three meetings to finally come up with a budget.
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Some of our fans haven't a scooby doo how business works.
And yes, believe it or not, football clubs are also a business.
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The talks have already gone ahead the delay is waiting for the owners to get back to them
So I assume he's said what he wants and Is waiting for an answer whether he can gave that or not?
yes that is right
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
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I think someone who invests millions into a club especially one as unfashionable as DRFC can be considered a football fan/man can't they?
i know lot of fans who know nothing of the game really and haven't ever played to a decent level even on a Sunday morning. What makes them more of a football man than Bramall? because they go to matches and shout at players to 'gerrr it forward" or get 'it on the bloody deck'
When someone criticises him for not been a football man does that really just mean he isn't willing to throw every penny he has at the cause?
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
I see your point that we miss someone with charisma but its not the owners we should expect that from, most clubs who operate is such a way are ran poorly and even more like a dictatorship than those where the board are silent
we do also seem to have lots of meet the board events which i doubt other clubs do as often or ever so there is a chance to give an opinion
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I agree they are open at the meetings but they are not open not really . If i’m critical , it’s DF who would be seen to be blamed , yet I want to know if the club is doing as well they say and all our thoughts of getting back to the Championship are theirs to provide or is this just a financial model still in its explorative stages . We pay for a season ticket , yet we are asked to pay for an other membership scheme on top of this . I want to see where the money goes and if I’m
Asked to contribute more it’s becuase it will help in getting us out of this League. Parking, free shirts, programmes , cheap rail fares or flight . It’s a marketing spin that just doesn’t provide a new striker or appear to have obvious benefits to the squad.
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So you'd rather the world know what we're up to and someone mouthing off spouting cringeworthy shite in the media than doing things under the radar and getting it right?
Be honest, you have something against Bramall for no apparent reason - or perhaps because he's not John Ryan.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
As stated previously with the supporters board the club is far more open now than its ever been especially financially, as also stated I think you have an axe to grind with the current owners for some reason.
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No you’re wrong , but what is the budget £ ?Competitive or 14th in League 1 type ?
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How would we know if it is competitive without knowing everyone else’s budget
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Who are the supporters that are on the supporters board. I know SM is one but who are the others.
Are they representatives of different supporters groups.
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Even if we knew the budgets, you'd also need to know every players wages! It's a nonsense.
Did John Ryan ever reveal the budget? The only thing I recall him saying was something like 'We' re shopping at Waitrose not Aldi'.
The only thing that was different back then was more transfer fees were revealed but it was a very different market back then.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we get told under JR that we don't get told now?
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we know under JR that we don't know now?
we knew the club had genuine drive and ambition.
there was passion and a feel good factor, which is synonymous with football.
just don't get the same feeling with the current board.
i guess building houses doesn't require the same level of charisma or genuine commitment.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we know under JR that we don't know now?
we knew the club had genuine drive and ambition.
there was passion and a feel good factor, which is synonymous with football.
just don't get the same feeling with the current board.
i guess building houses doesn't require the same level of charisma or genuine commitment.
I take it making tits bigger does?
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There was always going to be a feel good factor after the depths of Richardson and 5 seasons in the Conference! That said JR managed that feel good factor extremely well. He's from a totally different business backgrounds where he sells a dream. Totally different personalities so we were never going to get the same.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we know under JR that we don't know now?
we knew the club had genuine drive and ambition.
there was passion and a feel good factor, which is synonymous with football.
just don't get the same feeling with the current board.
i guess building houses doesn't require the same level of charisma or genuine commitment.
So we didn't get told anything substantial then, you just want the hype back.
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Who are the supporters that are on the supporters board. I know SM is one but who are the others.
Are they representatives of different supporters groups.
Most of them are. Not sure why they don't make themselves publicly known, after all they are representing supporters.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we know under JR that we don't know now?
we knew the club had genuine drive and ambition.
there was passion and a feel good factor, which is synonymous with football.
just don't get the same feeling with the current board.
i guess building houses doesn't require the same level of charisma or genuine commitment.
So we didn't get told anything substantial then, you just want the hype back.
what substance do we get told now? really ? at least we knew the true ambition of the club back then.
JR was a fan, and made the effort with the supporters.
imo there was a hell of a lot more clarity in regards to where the ambitions of the football club was.
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I support DRFC since 1969 though I’m Scottish I love the club but under previous a administration it was ran as an open book , by a man who loved the club so much , he would stand on the terraces in the early days and listen to what we said . But now it’s ran like we don’t need or have an opinion. I’m not disgruntled or feeling mislead by lack of any information, yet it seems that when John Ryan left , the shutters came down down on any links between the supporters and the board. Shame .
What did we know under JR that we don't know now?
we knew the club had genuine drive and ambition.
there was passion and a feel good factor, which is synonymous with football.
just don't get the same feeling with the current board.
i guess building houses doesn't require the same level of charisma or genuine commitment.
So we didn't get told anything substantial then, you just want the hype back.
what substance do we get told now? really ? at least we knew the true ambition of the club back then.
JR was a fan, and made the effort with the supporters.
imo there was a hell of a lot more clarity in regards to where the ambitions of the football club was.
So unless you're repeatedly told that the club's ambition is to progress you naturally assume that it isn't?
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If the club's ambition is to take us back to where John Ryan led us we need players of similar quality, and if we don't get them we can assume it's not going to happen.
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I know a couple, but feel it is up to them if they want it public, both have nothing but good intentions for the club, are long time supporters and like SM do as much for the club as they can.
And as far as I am aware do a cracking job representing our interests, and in the past have brought things up at the club that have been addressed to our advantage.
We should , and are in most cases very thankful that people are prepared to give their time for free to represent us with the club, and the club for accepting we have a voice.
There are not many clubs that have progressed as far as we have since the 90s, due to good guidance on and off the field, all the people responsible deserve our eternal thanks.
Unfortunately in that time money has overtaken everything else that drives success on the field of play, so getting to and staying in the Championship is becoming a dream for clubs like ours, as much as the Premiership is for clubs like the Wednesdays and Weeds, it,s the way of the world at the moment, and I am afraid unless mega bucks are thrown at us we will be around this position for quite some time. Where's my Euro lottery ticket?
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If the club's ambition is to take us back to where John Ryan led us we need players of similar quality, and if we don't get them we can assume it's not going to happen.
Exactly, end of.
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Who are the supporters that are on the supporters board. I know SM is one but who are the others.
Are they representatives of different supporters groups.
Most of them are. Not sure why they don't make themselves publicly known, after all they are representing supporters.
That is true, as supporter representatives they should be made publicly known, how else do supporters raise concerns if no one knows who to raise them with?
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If they are putting the effort in quietly behind the scenes then I applaud that public or not.After all they are pretty safe in the knowledge that SM is the mouthpiece and point of contact for the fans and he also has direct access to the powers that be..
It's a thankless task full stop,because SM cant always give you the answers you want and sometimes when he does you don't always agree with him..Over the years there are many things I have agreed with him on and one or two which I don't but that's life..But I would never criticise any of them whether they declare it publically or not who work behind the scenes,donating lots of time for free with the aim of making it better for us all....
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And as for the meet the owners meetings,if as many people who moaned on here about budgets,Bramhalls football interest,direction of the club etc etc,actually could be bothered to attend them they might actually engage with you a bit more..People just expect everything on a plate these days..
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So what's the point of this forum then, if it's not to discuss progress/lack of it since the club's last meeting of intent?
Is it just a place of worship and thanksgiving for the happy clappers to wallow in?
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Everyone can moan at each other, but the fact of the matter is everyone’s watching this quite closely, Baldwin’s said nothing for months, blunt says nothing, there’s rumours abound of other things going off, if they as a board have reached a level where progress can’t be made, and I think everybody on here would agree, yes theve done a great job and I’d applaud them for that..... but now what???? The attendance figures are unreal 8000??? 7500?? There’s hardly 6 in there so I don’t know what’s going on there.... the club needs a big almighty kick on and get folk interested again because it’s the same old crap..
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No it isn't but the answers to some of the questions that seem to be concerning people cant be specifically answered on this forum by the average fan because nobody really knows .The last few meet the owners nights haven't been that well attended..Thats the chance to stand up,stare them in the eyes and ask...
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I think most people forget that the vast majority of clubs don't work the way we did under John Ryan.
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And as for the meet the owners meetings,if as many people who moaned on here about budgets,Bramhalls football interest,direction of the club etc etc,actually could be bothered to attend them they might actually engage with you a bit more..People just expect everything on a plate these days..
might be nice if bramall bothered to attend too.
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Might be nice if they answered where all the money as gone considering Baldwin’s break even figure as been well surpassed and a good little run in the cup??
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And as for the meet the owners meetings,if as many people who moaned on here about budgets,Bramhalls football interest,direction of the club etc etc,actually could be bothered to attend them they might actually engage with you a bit more..People just expect everything on a plate these days..
I'm in favour of us slowly climbing up the leagues. BUT we all pay good money to watch out club and buy shirts of all kinds and programs that we can ill afford so I don't think it is wanting it all on a plate
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Well said vicar, I think it’s got the stage where there taking us for granted and its not on,
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Might be nice if they answered where all the money as gone considering Baldwin’s break even figure as been well surpassed and a good little run in the cup??
All monies go into the budget for player spend. TB and AW don't take a penny out of the club so why the suspicion? Extra costs, like the unexpected spend on Whiteman and Houghton swallowed up any surplus and had then to be subsidised further by TB and AW. These expenses were not in the original budget.
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Might be nice if they answered where all the money as gone considering Baldwin’s break even figure as been well surpassed and a good little run in the cup??
All monies go into the budget for player spend. TB and AW don't take a penny out of the club so why the suspicion? Extra costs, like the unexpected spend on Whiteman and Houghton swallowed up any surplus and had then to be subsidised further by TB and AW. These expenses were not in the original budget.
I am guessing the Anderson and Boyle loans were also unexpected as well SM.
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If they are putting the effort in quietly behind the scenes then I applaud that public or not.After all they are pretty safe in the knowledge that SM is the mouthpiece and point of contact for the fans and he also has direct access to the powers that be..
It's a thankless task full stop,because SM cant always give you the answers you want and sometimes when he does you don't always agree with him..Over the years there are many things I have agreed with him on and one or two which I don't but that's life..But I would never criticise any of them whether they declare it publically or not who work behind the scenes,donating lots of time for free with the aim of making it better for us all....
Not sure how a supporters representative can be anonymous. If nobody knows who they are, how can they represent anyone?
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Might be nice if they answered where all the money as gone considering Baldwin’s break even figure as been well surpassed and a good little run in the cup??
All monies go into the budget for player spend. TB and AW don't take a penny out of the club so why the suspicion? Extra costs, like the unexpected spend on Whiteman and Houghton swallowed up any surplus and had then to be subsidised further by TB and AW. These expenses were not in the original budget.
I am guessing the Anderson and Boyle loans were also unexpected as well SM.
Absolutely right DU.
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Always the same old people banging on about the f**king budget isn't it.
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My take on this is that obviously DF wants as big a budget as he can extract from the owners as this would make his job much easier. However I think the owners may be being cautious bearing in mind that he hasn't pulled up many trees during his tenure.
Surely the budget for next season will be bigger than Shrewsbury's was this season & look how well they have done. Maybe DF can't manage to do wonderful things with a limited budget & perhaps we should be looking for a manager who can.
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No offence sm... but what’s with the attendance saying 8.5 7.9 etc when clearly it’s no where near mate???? We’ve all been going years and it’s very strange to say the least...
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If they are putting the effort in quietly behind the scenes then I applaud that public or not.After all they are pretty safe in the knowledge that SM is the mouthpiece and point of contact for the fans and he also has direct access to the powers that be..
It's a thankless task full stop,because SM cant always give you the answers you want and sometimes when he does you don't always agree with him..Over the years there are many things I have agreed with him on and one or two which I don't but that's life..But I would never criticise any of them whether they declare it publically or not who work behind the scenes,donating lots of time for free with the aim of making it better for us all....
Not sure how a supporters representative can be anonymous. If nobody knows who they are, how can they represent anyone?
Agree fully. I don't understand how we can have anonymous supporter representatives. Where have these people come from? I don't always agree with SM on here but at least I know who he is, know his role and can ask him something if I have an issue or grievance or query.
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Always the same old people banging on about the f**king budget isn't it.
like the manager? and journalists reporting there is a massive gulf between what DF feels is needed and what the board are willing to give.
fuelling genuine concerns and rumours that something isn't right !
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No offence sm... but what’s with the attendance saying 8.5 7.9 etc when clearly it’s no where near mate???? We’ve all been going years and it’s very strange to say the least...
Clubs are required to report ticket sales, not attendances.
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Why do supporters feel the need to know the intimate details and financial arrangements on how our club is run?
Isn't it enough to know that we have owners maintaining a strong club off the field, and giving the manager a squad budget, without jumping to conclusions over the finer details?
It's almost like its going to be the end of the world if there isn't public knowledge of next season's plans by the end of today.
Being interested is one thing, but I for one think some fans want too much, and they want it now..
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
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So to the doubters...... Ferguson as took on players on hundreds a week compared with thousands.... good business model??? Mmmm
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So to the doubters...... Ferguson as took on players on hundreds a week compared with thousands.... good business model??? Mmmm
Has he? - Have you got a breakdown of wages per player we can look at?
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If they are putting the effort in quietly behind the scenes then I applaud that public or not.After all they are pretty safe in the knowledge that SM is the mouthpiece and point of contact for the fans and he also has direct access to the powers that be..
It's a thankless task full stop,because SM cant always give you the answers you want and sometimes when he does you don't always agree with him..Over the years there are many things I have agreed with him on and one or two which I don't but that's life..But I would never criticise any of them whether they declare it publically or not who work behind the scenes,donating lots of time for free with the aim of making it better for us all....
Not sure how a supporters representative can be anonymous. If nobody knows who they are, how can they represent anyone?
Agree fully. I don't understand how we can have anonymous supporter representatives. Where have these people come from? I don't always agree with SM on here but at least I know who he is, know his role and can ask him something if I have an issue or grievance or query.
How was it they were decided upon as representing supporters, and how can supporter gauge how good a job they're doing supposedly being represented by them?
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
Majority of fans? You, Boomstick and your mates who only ever come on here to run the club down are hardly a majority.
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Always the same old people banging on about the f**king budget isn't it.
like the manager?
No. Like you.
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So to the doubters...... Ferguson as took on players on hundreds a week compared with thousands.... good business model??? Mmmm
Has he? - Have you got a breakdown of wages per player we can look at?
Perhaps he should ask Steve, he seems to know what our budget is.
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If you honestly believe may and Beestin are on top dollar you’re in bother lol....
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If you honestly believe may and Beestin are on top dollar you’re in bother lol....
So you don't know then. Thanks.
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
I haven't said anything about the board. I think you're just making things up now. A bit embarrassing.
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Baudry, Copps, Butler, Andrew, Marquis, Williams and Rowe will all be in over a grand. Possibly McCullough, Kiwomya, Whiteman, Lawlor too.
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
I haven't said anything about the board. I think you're just making things up now. A bit embarrassing.
His use of the English language appears to be made up. WTF is 'defer otherwise' supposed to mean?
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Hope I'm wrong but told that a good win tweet has stated Ferguson will have a smaller squad next season, not looking good , sèms very worrying ,?
Doesn't even look like where investing the money with the players where realising ?
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
I haven't said anything about the board. I think you're just making things up now. A bit embarrassing.
His use if the English language appears to be made up. WTF is 'defer otherwise' supposed to mean?
Of
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
I haven't said anything about the board. I think you're just making things up now. A bit embarrassing.
His use if the English language appears to be made up. WTF is 'defer otherwise' supposed to mean?
Of
Thanks, fat fingers. Corrected.
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
I haven't said anything about the board. I think you're just making things up now. A bit embarrassing.
His use if the English language appears to be made up. WTF is 'defer otherwise' supposed to mean?
Of
Thanks, fat fingers. Corrected.
No need to get personal 😀
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I hope Fergie does go, it’ll mean the end for leaches like Baldwin....
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What the f**k are you drivelling on about,
The majority of fans are pointing the finger at the board??
You’re deluded.
Twoddle off back to that Facebook nonsense
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I hope Fergie does go, it’ll mean the end for leaches like Baldwin....
Stop chatting shit.
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I hope Fergie does go, it’ll mean the end for leaches like Baldwin....
I don't quite get how Baldwin equates to soil drainage...
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It’s obvious isn’t it?? Can you honestly sit there and say the board are good????? There useless and it’s fine to say that, there’s no actions to defer otherwise
So why are the board not good? they along with John Ryan bankrolled two promotions to the Championship and they've backed Dickov and Ferguson to get largely who they want. Sure Ferguson has probably kicked off cos he wants more money to spend, but doesn't every manager want a bigger budget in every company on earth?
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Baudry, Copps, Butler, Andrew, Marquis, Williams and Rowe will all be in over a grand. Possibly McCullough, Kiwomya, Whiteman, Lawlor too.
The first 7 you mentioned I would imagine would be on nearer 3k a week at least!!
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DF talks about a small squad again next season and as a result, wanting to put a better training/ medical services to help with this . IMO DF is expecting a similar budget when talking about Copps and his contract as it would be dependent on what the budget is .I would have thought Williams leaving should have given DF more available funds as he was on a high wage , yet he hesitates to commit and just said ‘ I don’t know’ which he possibly thinks his budget could be reduced or Williams wages being removed from the total altogether. But one thing looks certain and that there isn’t going to be any contract protractions like he had over Marquis . Players coming in imo only one or two .
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Baudry, Copps, Butler, Andrew, Marquis, Williams and Rowe will all be in over a grand. Possibly McCullough, Kiwomya, Whiteman, Lawlor too.
The first 7 you mentioned I would imagine would be on nearer 3k a week at least!!
They probably are, not sure how anyone can suggest were not spending money on wages.
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DF talks about a small squad again next season and as a result, wanting to put a better training/ medical services to help with this . IMO DF is expecting a similar budget when talking about Copps and his contract as it would be dependent on what the budget is .I would have thought Williams leaving should have given DF more available funds as he was on a high wage , yet he hesitates to commit and just said ‘ I don’t know’ which he possibly thinks his budget could be reduced or Williams wages being removed from the total altogether. But one thing looks certain and that there isn’t going to be any contract protractions like he had over Marquis . Players coming in imo only one or two .
Or maybe because he didn't know.
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Baudry, Copps, Butler, Andrew, Marquis, Williams and Rowe will all be in over a grand. Possibly McCullough, Kiwomya, Whiteman, Lawlor too.
The first 7 you mentioned I would imagine would be on nearer 3k a week at least!!
They probably are, not sure how anyone can suggest were not spending money on wages.
Cos it doesn't fit this bizarre narrative that Bramall and co aren't putting a significant amount of money into the club just because we aren't spunking millions on transfer fees.
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Theres obviously been a deluge of spice into the area 😀
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Dickos??? You’re a dick!! Tell me how the board of drfc are taking us forward and not fixing attendances?????
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Some of the drivel being spouted on hear is quite embarrassing to be quite honest. Let the club get on with it and we will see in August the end result won’t we. :headbang:
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DF talks about a small squad again next season and as a result, wanting to put a better training/ medical services to help with this . IMO DF is expecting a similar budget when talking about Copps and his contract as it would be dependent on what the budget is .I would have thought Williams leaving should have given DF more available funds as he was on a high wage , yet he hesitates to commit and just said ‘ I don’t know’ which he possibly thinks his budget could be reduced or Williams wages being removed from the total altogether. But one thing looks certain and that there isn’t going to be any contract protractions like he had over Marquis . Players coming in imo only one or two . Or maybe because he didn't know.
yes that’s possibly true , but listened to the interview and it was evident he was embarrassed that he didn’t .
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
We're not a sinking ship, far from it. The business model currently being employed is turning out to be so successful that other clubs are taking a closer look.
TB has always said that if somebody came along that could do a better job for DRFC then he would relinquish control, and, as a man of his word, I believe him. However I don't think that time is right just now.
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
We're not a sinking ship, far from it. The business model currently being employed is turning out to be so successful that other clubs are taking a closer look.
TB has always said that if somebody came along that could do a better job for DRFC then he would relinquish control, and, as a man of his word, I believe him. However I don't think that time is right just now.
The business model is probably successful as you say. But is it a business model for a league 1 club which needs to stay in league 1 for it to continue to be successful?
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Dickos??? You’re a dick!! Tell me how the board of drfc are taking us forward and not fixing attendances?????
Apologies, but I am becoming more and more confused by your arguments Raggy.
Fixing attendances would be UNDER-reporting them to avoid tax. Some of the figures being reported by the club 'seem' HIGH because they are required to report all season ticket holders for a home match, and clearly many STH's have not been attending of late. That is not fixing in any sense, either legally or mathematically.
We are currently 14th in League 1. In the 46 seasons from 1958-59 to 2003-04 we achieved that only 3 times with a highest of 11th in the third tier. Given the hyper-inflation of football it can be argued that the current board are subsidising the club (in my mind a better term than investing because they do not seem to want to make any profit from the money they put into the club) relatively more than at any time since 1958 with the exception of the one-off JR period which was clearly non sustainable.
In my eyes this board are doing a good job, and I would fear the worst if they left.
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
We're not a sinking ship, far from it. The business model currently being employed is turning out to be so successful that other clubs are taking a closer look.
TB has always said that if somebody came along that could do a better job for DRFC then he would relinquish control, and, as a man of his word, I believe him. However I don't think that time is right just now.
The business model is probably successful as you say. But is it a business model for a league 1 club which needs to stay in league 1 for it to continue to be successful?
Not at all. Why would it be? . Lg1 is the hardest league to try and maintain some form of sustainability, rather Lg2 or the Championship if that was the objective.
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
We're not a sinking ship, far from it. The business model currently being employed is turning out to be so successful that other clubs are taking a closer look.
TB has always said that if somebody came along that could do a better job for DRFC then he would relinquish control, and, as a man of his word, I believe him. However I don't think that time is right just now.
The business model is probably successful as you say. But is it a business model for a league 1 club which needs to stay in league 1 for it to continue to be successful?
Not at all. Why would it be? . Lg1 is the hardest league to try and maintain some form of sustainability, rather Lg2 or the Championship if that was the objective.
I think one word you have used songs up many fans fears. "IF" THE CHAMPIONSHIP WAS THE OBJECTIVE.
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Ive never met sm but I’ll take my hat off because of the grief which is possibly over the top, but the majority of fans are now clearly pointing the finger at the board, I think it’s in there best interests to either say yeah or neh... personally I think tb as had enough and that’s it’s it tbf, I might be miles away from the truth but I think it’s a sinking ship
We're not a sinking ship, far from it. The business model currently being employed is turning out to be so successful that other clubs are taking a closer look.
TB has always said that if somebody came along that could do a better job for DRFC then he would relinquish control, and, as a man of his word, I believe him. However I don't think that time is right just now.
The business model is probably successful as you say. But is it a business model for a league 1 club which needs to stay in league 1 for it to continue to be successful?
Not at all. Why would it be? . Lg1 is the hardest league to try and maintain some form of sustainability, rather Lg2 or the Championship if that was the objective.
I think one word you have used songs up many fans fears. "IF" THE CHAMPIONSHIP WAS THE OBJECTIVE.
But it is, and has been stated publicly. But you've misread my post. Have another go.
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If they are putting the effort in quietly behind the scenes then I applaud that public or not.After all they are pretty safe in the knowledge that SM is the mouthpiece and point of contact for the fans and he also has direct access to the powers that be..
It's a thankless task full stop,because SM cant always give you the answers you want and sometimes when he does you don't always agree with him..Over the years there are many things I have agreed with him on and one or two which I don't but that's life..But I would never criticise any of them whether they declare it publically or not who work behind the scenes,donating lots of time for free with the aim of making it better for us all....
Not sure how a supporters representative can be anonymous. If nobody knows who they are, how can they represent anyone?
Agree fully. I don't understand how we can have anonymous supporter representatives. Where have these people come from? I don't always agree with SM on here but at least I know who he is, know his role and can ask him something if I have an issue or grievance or query.
I didn't mean that they were attempting to be anonymous, more that they have chosen to be low key, which is surprising for some of them as they are extremely well known in the Rovers community.
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I think most people forget that the vast majority of clubs don't work the way we did under John Ryan.
What's wrong with being different, especially when it proved to be so successful?
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We weren't different. John Ryan took us to 11th in League one on his own, which is more or less where we are now. It was their collective financial clout and some good footballing decisions that took us further. Not John Ryan alone as deity of Doncaster.
I don't have a problem with Fergie sending the message that the budget next year is going to be bog-standard. As long as that's all he's doing and not taking the piss, because we can quite easily find a manage who wants to work for this club with the means he's given.
The board can undoubtedly give a push if they wanted. A 5 year plan can't be 5 consecutive years of trying to get in the championship because thats the plan of everyone and therefore not a plan. We have to see incremental improvement or they should re-state their aims.
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We weren't different. John Ryan took us to 11th in League one on his own, which is more or less where we are now. It was their collective financial clout and some good footballing decisions that took us further. Not John Ryan alone as deity of Doncaster.
I don't have a problem with Fergie sending the message that the budget next year is going to be bog-standard. As long as that's all he's doing and not taking the piss, because we can quite easily find a manage who wants to work for this club with the means he's given.
The board can undoubtedly give a push if they wanted. A 5 year plan can't be 5 consecutive years of trying to get in the championship because thats the plan of everyone and therefore not a plan. We have to see incremental improvement or they should re-state their aims.
So a 5 year plan isn't for 5 years? When is 5 year plan not a 5 year plan? When is spread over 10 years? Stupid post.
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Hope I'm wrong but told that a good win tweet has stated Ferguson will have a smaller squad next season, not looking good , sèms very worrying ,?
Doesn't even look like where investing the money with the players where realising ?
I saw that, he either knows something or has heard a rumour. He's trying to spread unrest with the tweet he made
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We weren't different. John Ryan took us to 11th in League one on his own, which is more or less where we are now. It was their collective financial clout and some good footballing decisions that took us further. Not John Ryan alone as deity of Doncaster.
I don't have a problem with Fergie sending the message that the budget next year is going to be bog-standard. As long as that's all he's doing and not taking the piss, because we can quite easily find a manage who wants to work for this club with the means he's given.
The board can undoubtedly give a push if they wanted. A 5 year plan can't be 5 consecutive years of trying to get in the championship because thats the plan of everyone and therefore not a plan. We have to see incremental improvement or they should re-state their aims.
So a 5 year plan isn't for 5 years? When is 5 year plan not a 5 year plan? When is spread over 10 years? Stupid post.
You've not read or understood the post.
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Hope I'm wrong but told that a good win tweet has stated Ferguson will have a smaller squad next season, not looking good , sèms very worrying ,?
Doesn't even look like where investing the money with the players where realising ?
I saw that, he either knows something or has heard a rumour. He's trying to spread unrest with the tweet he made
The tweet from Paul Goodwin was relating to a radio Sheffield interview with DF it said
Spot the reference (at 04:15) to "possibly it is going to be a smaller squad".
Then Paul’s inference That's not quite the "two players for each position" we heard a couple of weeks back. #drfc
But as SM said before until today nothing was certain until the feedback from meeting, it was only a possibility it may have been different or the case.
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We weren't different. John Ryan took us to 11th in League one on his own, which is more or less where we are now. It was their collective financial clout and some good footballing decisions that took us further. Not John Ryan alone as deity of Doncaster.
I don't have a problem with Fergie sending the message that the budget next year is going to be bog-standard. As long as that's all he's doing and not taking the piss, because we can quite easily find a manage who wants to work for this club with the means he's given.
The board can undoubtedly give a push if they wanted. A 5 year plan can't be 5 consecutive years of trying to get in the championship because thats the plan of everyone and therefore not a plan. We have to see incremental improvement or they should re-state their aims.
So a 5 year plan isn't for 5 years? When is 5 year plan not a 5 year plan? When is spread over 10 years? Stupid post.
You've not read or understood the post.
No I obviously don't understand it. What is this 5 year plan then
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Dickos??? You’re a dick!! Tell me how the board of drfc are taking us forward and not fixing attendances?????
Apologies, but I am becoming more and more confused by your arguments Raggy.
Fixing attendances would be UNDER-reporting them to avoid tax. Some of the figures being reported by the club 'seem' HIGH because they are required to report all season ticket holders for a home match, and clearly many STH's have not been attending of late. That is not fixing in any sense, either legally or mathematically.
We are currently 14th in League 1. In the 46 seasons from 1958-59 to 2003-04 we achieved that only 3 times with a highest of 11th in the third tier. Given the hyper-inflation of football it can be argued that the current board are subsidising the club (in my mind a better term than investing because they do not seem to want to make any profit from the money they put into the club) relatively more than at any time since 1958 with the exception of the one-off JR period which was clearly non sustainable.
In my eyes this board are doing a good job, and I would fear the worst if they left.
Another great post Dutch Uncle. Thank heavens we have some supporters who understand the big picture.
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We weren't different. John Ryan took us to 11th in League one on his own, which is more or less where we are now. It was their collective financial clout and some good footballing decisions that took us further. Not John Ryan alone as deity of Doncaster.
I don't have a problem with Fergie sending the message that the budget next year is going to be bog-standard. As long as that's all he's doing and not taking the piss, because we can quite easily find a manage who wants to work for this club with the means he's given.
The board can undoubtedly give a push if they wanted. A 5 year plan can't be 5 consecutive years of trying to get in the championship because thats the plan of everyone and therefore not a plan. We have to see incremental improvement or they should re-state their aims.
So a 5 year plan isn't for 5 years? When is 5 year plan not a 5 year plan? When is spread over 10 years? Stupid post.
You've not read or understood the post.
No I obviously don't understand it. What is this 5 year plan then
I'm still not sure what you're asking me?
The 5 year plan was something the people running the club with came up with a a year and half ago. The whole idea of a 'plan' is you sit down at some point in time and set targets and a road map for how you are going to achieve those targets measured against the moment you formed the plan. That's how organisations have been doing it for centuries.The club have done this (presumably).
What is absolutely not a plan is saying 'we go again lads' because that's not measuring progress against the plan you originally planned. That's just starting again. In any case, the management of the club said the plan was mostly about increasing revenue, which they have said they've done/being doing successfully. Which makes these issues of budget quite peculiar.
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By God, I opened up a can of worms with this thread; mischievous eh?
Seriously though, I honestly don't know what to make of the situation other than to just wait and see. Baudry leaving us isn't ideal, but maybe we'll get Boyle and Anderson; as long as we have 4 centre backs next season, and another right back, with Amos covering for Andrew, then the defence should be fine. That would probably leave us with just a midfielder and a striker to get.
I'm sure Terry and Andy are quite aware of what we need, particularly as we enter the 3rd year of the 5 year plan, and I doubt if they'll come up short of what Fergie needs. If they do, however, we may be in for a bumpy road ahead.
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So any actual incline how today’s budget talks went?
I don’t think Baudry going reflects them, sounds like this was already decided either way.
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I think most people forget that the vast majority of clubs don't work the way we did under John Ryan.
What's wrong with being different, especially when it proved to be so successful?
Nothing wrong with it. But it doesn't mean people have to f**king squawk and flail limbs around in outrage when the man who's a bit different moves on and the club goes back to acting like the majority of football clubs.
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Who's f**king squawking and f**king flailing f**king limbs? f**king f**king.......
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I don’t understand why people think we need to spend above and beyond our means to compete next year. Shrewsbury appear to have done ok this year and I bet they don’t have a budget any different to ours, if not smaller. All we need to do is recruit well, make ourselves hard to beat and who knows?
The days of throwing good money after bad are gone. I don’t know why people find that so hard to believe. Just try accepting it and enjoy watching a club that you support, regardless of the budget!
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Has anyone thought, that DF might have more at his disposal to spend on wages than last season?
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Has anyone thought, that DF might have more at his disposal to spend on wages than last season?
Well i think he almost certainly will have. I honestly don’t know what all this budget is ‘rubbish’ nonesense is all about. The owners want Championship football and will help the manager with a budget that is not going to put the club in financial trouble.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM. As just been mentioned look at SHREWSBURY TOWN.
Good managers can get success without massive budgets. ACCRINGTON STANLEY, second smallest budget in League 2 and they are Champions.
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Who's f**king squawking and f**king flailing f**king limbs? f**king f**king.......
There's plenty of websites you'll see people doing that as well but this isn't one of them. :P
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....The attendance figures are unreal 8000??? 7500??....
OooH! A chance for my mantra....
This season's average attendance is 8,038 and is likely to get a hundred or so bump on that this weekend. That's the best average at this level we've had in 50 years, better than all the penney, SOD and Little years. THAT, right there, is a measure of the club gaining support and going forward.
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I think most people forget that the vast majority of clubs don't work the way we did under John Ryan.
What's wrong with being different, especially when it proved to be so successful?
Aye, 'the experiment' was a resounding success.
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We were doomed anyway.
Had it worked, Bramall, Watson and Ryan would have shared the credit. Strange how when it proved unsuccessful Ryan took the brunt alone!
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Didn't Bramall briefly step down during that time?
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So we go on record and say we have the biggest budget ever seen in league one on a par with Man City- wonder what would happen when Fergie showed interest in a player
A smaller squad with players less prone to injury would work. Think how big our squad is now with players we have had to take on to cover
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So we can on record and say we have the biggest budget ever seen in league one on a par with Man City- wonder what would happen when Fergie showed interest in a player
A smaller squad with players less prone to injury would work. Think how big our squad is now with players we have had to take on to cover
he’d probably sing🎵 We're in the money, come on, my honey,
Let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along!
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Didn't Bramall briefly step down during that time?
Yep. So much for the 'Had it worked, Bramall, Watson and Ryan would have shared the credit' attempted rewrite of history.
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So why did Bramall step down then?
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Something to do with the Willie Mckay 'experiment' fiasco wasn't it?
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
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I'm sick of hearing that we were "doomed anyway" when that experiment commenced. It was only 7 games into the season and we'd suffered three major injuries to first team players in the opening week of the season. Absolutely no proof that we were done for at all that early on. The experiment was a disgrace and I'm still not at the stage where I can forgive some of the people involved for what they did to our proud club that season.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
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I don't think the majority of people on here have any idea how business actually works, be it in football or otherwise.
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The Chairman Guides the Board
The chairman of the board is a part-time leader who manages the board’s business and activities and provides guidance and direction to other board members. The chairman, however, does not hold a managerial position over other board members. All members are considered peers; therefore, board decisions are not the sole responsibility of the chairman. The board, with the chairman at its head, holds the highest level of decision-making authority for the company, above that of the CEO.
The Difference in Authority
While the CEO can overrule decisions made by other executives and the board can overrule a CEO’s decisions, the chairman of the board can’t overrule either the CEO or the board. This key difference is based on the role of each leader. A CEO has authority over other executives because there is a clear leadership hierarchy. Other executives don’t select a CEO from among their ranks. A chairman of the board does not have authority over other board members because she is a peer to them. The board of directors selects a chairman from amongst its members.
That's a bit different to what you say SM. As was probably shown when SOD was dispensed with.
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I don't see how it's any different. The distinction being made was between shareholders and boards, not boards and CEO's.
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Going by Evina Baudry Williams three good earners , along with the delay in confirming the budget it would appear DF is getting a budget to pay for what he’s got and not much else. Loans again then !!
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Delay??
The season hasn’t even finished!
Those three being released doesn’t say to me we’re reducing the budget it says Fergie would rather spend that money elsewhere
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DF isn’t getting same as last season . That much is apparent . Loosing 3 big earners will not mean he gets that included this time around .
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Why haven't we signed anyone yet FFS. Fergie Out!
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Hopefully they'll amalgamate the National League South and North or I'll not get to any away games next season.
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DF isn’t getting same as last season . That much is apparent . Loosing 3 big earners will not mean he gets that included this time around .
How is it apparent. There has been nothing official reported, it’s just rumours up to now. Last week the rumours were that we was getting rid of copps. A few days later Fergie says he’s giving him a new deal.
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DF isn’t getting same as last season . That much is apparent . Loosing 3 big earners will not mean he gets that included this time around .
It’s not apparent at all
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Not sure how releasing Cedric Evina is any indication of anything other than the fact that he's shit.
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The Chairman Guides the Board
The chairman of the board is a part-time leader who manages the board’s business and activities and provides guidance and direction to other board members. The chairman, however, does not hold a managerial position over other board members. All members are considered peers; therefore, board decisions are not the sole responsibility of the chairman. The board, with the chairman at its head, holds the highest level of decision-making authority for the company, above that of the CEO.
The Difference in Authority
So the Chairman cannot make a "my way or no way" decision .
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The only big loss is Baudry.
Evina - Shit.
Williams - OK but we know he's on a fair whack.
Alcock - Not been the same since his injury v Newcastle.
Baudry - Injury prone.
We could probably sign 5/6 quality players for what they're on and Copps wages should come down too with his age. Even if the budget only slightly goes up we should be OK.
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I'm sick of hearing that we were "doomed anyway" when that experiment commenced. It was only 7 games into the season and we'd suffered three major injuries to first team players in the opening week of the season. Absolutely no proof that we were done for at all that early on. The experiment was a disgrace and I'm still not at the stage where I can forgive some of the people involved for what they did to our proud club that season.
Would the experiment have been a disgrace if it had been successful?
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I think Boudry wanted to leave, not a case of we didn’t want him.
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Either way you would have him as one of top couple of earners, so some whack released now.
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The Chairman Guides the Board
The chairman of the board is a part-time leader who manages the board’s business and activities and provides guidance and direction to other board members. The chairman, however, does not hold a managerial position over other board members. All members are considered peers; therefore, board decisions are not the sole responsibility of the chairman. The board, with the chairman at its head, holds the highest level of decision-making authority for the company, above that of the CEO.
The Difference in Authority
So the Chairman cannot make a "my way or no way" decision .
You need to read what I wrote before you start correcting me.
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I'm sick of hearing that we were "doomed anyway" when that experiment commenced. It was only 7 games into the season and we'd suffered three major injuries to first team players in the opening week of the season. Absolutely no proof that we were done for at all that early on. The experiment was a disgrace and I'm still not at the stage where I can forgive some of the people involved for what they did to our proud club that season.
Would the experiment have been a disgrace if it had been successful?
I hated it from day one so yes. My I'll feeling towards it wasn't because we went down. I didn't feel it was a necessary thing to do, smacked of complete desperation and was a huge slap in the face to SOD.
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One thing is for sure it did seem to split the board, the team and the fan base. The fall out from that was terrible and is still causing arguments today.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
That's what you wrote Martin, insinuating Ryan had the where-with-all to do as he pleased, which plainly is not the case.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
So whilst John Ryan was chairman with 33% were Terry Bramhall and Dick Watson not directors with 33% each?
A simple yes or no will do.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
That's what you wrote Martin, insinuating Ryan had the where-with-all to do as he pleased, which plainly is not the case.
Try reading it without any insinuation. It was a statement of fact.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
So whilst John Ryan was chairman with 33% were Terry Bramhall and Dick Watson not directors with 33% each?
A simple yes or no will do.
I don't know where you're going with this but are you mixing up directors and shareholders? But the simple answer would be no.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
So whilst John Ryan was chairman with 33% were Terry Bramhall and Dick Watson not directors with 33% each?
A simple yes or no will do.
I don't know where you're going with this but are you mixing up directors and shareholders? But the simple answer would be no.
So Bramhall and Watson were not board members?
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
That's what you wrote Martin, insinuating Ryan had the where-with-all to do as he pleased, which plainly is not the case.
Try reading it without any insinuation. It was a statement of fact.
I have Martin, still reads the same ( blame firmly at Ryans door) Dick Watson and Terry Bramall WERE directors of "Patienceform" ( DRFC ) from Nov 2006 until jan 2012 and could therefore have gone against the experiment, bearing in mind how boardrooms work. they obviously did not.
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Didn't Bramall agree with the experiment initially?
No
But as a major shareholder he could have stopped it.
The Chairman at the time was JR. Do you not now know how boards of companies work?
That's what you wrote Martin, insinuating Ryan had the where-with-all to do as he pleased, which plainly is not the case.
Try reading it without any insinuation. It was a statement of fact.
I have Martin, still reads the same ( blame firmly at Ryans door) Dick Watson and Terry Bramall WERE directors of "Patienceform" ( DRFC ) from Nov 2006 until jan 2012 and could therefore have gone against the experiment, bearing in mind how boardrooms work. they obviously did not.
Could it be they were just following the advice of a 'football man'?
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Yes Glynn it could. But when Martin was asked earlier if TB / DW were in favour of the experiment his one word answer was an emphatic NO.
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Yes Glynn it could. But when Martin was asked earlier if TB / DW were in favour of the experiment his one word answer was an emphatic NO.
The question was only asked about one of them.
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Ok I rephrase to avoid confusion , was TB in favour. End result emphatic NO .
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Great thread this.
Really capturing the zeitgeist of 2018.
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Ok I rephrase to avoid confusion , was TB in favour. End result emphatic NO .
Why was it an emphatic no? It was a straight forward answer to a question.
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Like one of mine and hounds threads this !
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My understanding was that the 'experiment' resulted from a conversation between Willie McKay, Dick Watson and Mickey Walker, and then Ryan went along with it.
All the smoke and mirrors statement about how companies work and who the chairman was at the time is just nonsense.
Does SM seriously believe that David Blunt currently dictates the policy at the club?
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This is going to be my last word on this subject as its been done to death on this forum over the years.
At that moment in time all footballing decisions were made by John. I sat in a meeting with him very shortly after the decision was made and he described how he'd come to that decision and why. He spelt out his reasons and his ambition for that push to the Premiership, he even mentioned expanding the Keepmoat to accommodate it he was that convinced it would work.
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Sadly,and badly miss john Ryan', enthusiasm .
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Ok I rephrase to avoid confusion , was TB in favour. End result emphatic NO .
Why was it an emphatic no? It was a straight forward answer to a question.
It was emphatic because it was a one word answer. With a one word answer there can be no ambiguity, therefore emphatic.
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To be honest it's a similar thing to what wolves have just done, except there was done on a much bigger scale. You could say we were ahead of the curve. ;-)
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Ok I rephrase to avoid confusion , was TB in favour. End result emphatic NO .
Why was it an emphatic no? It was a straight forward answer to a question.
It was emphatic because it was a one word answer. With a one word answer there can be no ambiguity, therefore emphatic.
Maybe, just maybe the answer to the question was a simple no. Why do the school girls on here have to find some sort of fictitious meaning behind a simple answer. Old fishermen’s wives or school girls you decide.
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Ok I rephrase to avoid confusion , was TB in favour. End result emphatic NO .
Why was it an emphatic no? It was a straight forward answer to a question.
It was emphatic because it was a one word answer. With a one word answer there can be no ambiguity, therefore emphatic.
When used as an adjective relating to a word or syllable, such as the word 'no', it doesn't mean that.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/emphatic
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So.....no in the context here-in you reckon is an adjective,
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Conjugate the verb, conjugate the verb.
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I bet Silent Majority really appreciates Mr Wriggley's contribution to this thread. Not only did he first mention 'The Experiment' he then (as per usual) proceeded to divert the subject by trying to make out the argument wasn't grammatically correct!
A bit sad really.
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So.....no in the context here-in you reckon is an adjective,
'Emphatic' is the adjective. Surely you knew that?
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What you are really saying is that the word (NO) as used by SM in his post is not emphatic ( as in clear , precise, no frills etc ). No is considered to be ( correct me if I am wrong) a WORD SENTENCE, as it does not fall into any other catergory ( verb, adverb, noun etc etc), and surely a word sentence can be emphatic. ( again correctme if I am wrong).
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Like one of mine and hounds threads this !
No it isn't. ;)
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Anyway back on ranch. Does having a small squad again next season to include what ever our loan players in this , give enough flexibility throughout the squad particularly when our track record of playing catch up , for not having a fully fit squad at the start of a season .
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In a word NO
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Seeing as we have a bigger Development Squad, I reckon they'll be looking to use that next season and it's a case of a slightly smaller senior squad.
Ian Lawlor
Marko Marosi
Louis Jones
Danny Andrew
Andy Butler
Joe Wright
Niall Mason
Matty Blair
Tyler Garratt
Mitchell Lund
Danny Amos
Shane Blaney
Luke McCullough
Ben Whiteman
Tommy Rowe
Issam Ben Khemis
Will Longbottom
Alfie Beestin
James Coppinger
Cody Prior
Morgan James
Jacob Fletcher
Alex Kiwomya
Liam Mandeville
John Marquis
Alfie May
James Morris
Probably add two experienced defenders, the young defender we had on trial, experienced midfielder or two and a striker minimum.
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What you are really saying is that the word (NO) as used by SM in his post is not emphatic ( as in clear , precise, no frills etc ). No is considered to be ( correct me if I am wrong) a WORD SENTENCE, as it does not fall into any other catergory ( verb, adverb, noun etc etc), and surely a word sentence can be emphatic. ( again correctme if I am wrong).
The use of the adjective 'emphatic', when related to a word or syllable (such as the word 'no') refers to the stress or emphasis placed upon it, not to its clarity, precision or conciseness.
PS 'No' falls into lots of categories, including the noun and adverb categories. SM used it in the exclamation category.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/no
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In a word NO
The perfect example of a written emphatic 'no'.
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Cannon from Rochdale would be my top midfield target, he could eventually replace Copps, and I have said before McGahey also from Rochdale, both out of contract and would give us cover for quite a few positions in midfield and defence.
Both a good age, are recognised to already able to play well at league 1 level, and are still improving and therefore have a resale value.
The two big strong strikers who played against us for Bristol Rovers and kicked us off the park, and the similar player at Wimbledon,one of them two would do me as a striking partner for Marquis and I understand both are out of contract.
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I very much doubt we will be pursuing any player that involves a fee being paid, free agents will be our targets jmho
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Does it even matter? a lot of transfers at this level are done on free transfers. Most if not all of our title winners (that came in over the summer) in 2013 were free transfers.
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Red, free transfer players mostly get a signing on fee now, plus the clubs end up paying the agents fees. Not many players come cheap nowadays.
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I know. Not sure what your point is, as it doesn't change the fact that they're free agents being signed.
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Point is people are getting excited about such and such at clubX, or so and so at club Y, there is vitually no chance we will be paying transfer fees
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So? why does it matter if fees are involved or not? would you rather we spunk a few hundred grand on shite for the sake of looking like we're spending money or save that cash for wages for good players? and don't anyone come out and say good players don't come on free transfers because we all know that isn't true.
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I’m confident the players who are coming in will be better than the ones we have got rid of this summer 🙏
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So? why does it matter if fees are involved or not? would you rather we spunk a few hundred grand on shite for the sake of looking like we're spending money or save that cash for wages for good players? and don't anyone come out and say good players don't come on free transfers because we all know that isn't true.
fraid you are missing the point, never mind
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Something's going to have to give sooner or later...
Either Ferguson accepts whatever budget he gets given and uses it to get the best squad possible, or he buggers off now.
What's a low budget in his eyes might be perceived as a big budget by a different pair of eyes.
If he goes into next season still inadvertently whining about the budget after a defeat, moaning about strength in depth (and probably a lot more when the cameras are switched off), that's a really bad situation.
In fairness to him, I think the board should have let him know by now what he's dealing with for the next 12 months - the fact they haven't makes me wonder if they're totally 100% convinced he's the right man, or if they also have lingering doubts.
By God Rigo, I don't agree with some of your posts, but that's one hell of a prophetic assumption.
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So why did Bramall step down then?
Just a wild guess.
The Experiment was sold as a way of bringing in excellent players hungry to re-start their careers for next to no money.
In fact, it brought in mostly talentless bone idle wasters, and the wage bill that season went up (from memory) from £7m to £9m.
I’d hazard a guess that Bramall walked when he saw the size of the bills that were rolling in.
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Haha.