Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Copps is Magic on October 20, 2021, 05:02:32 pm
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Forced myself to look at the table. The problem is there written all over it in red marker, highlighted, shouting out to be addressed.
- Teams 10 down to 24 have all conceded roughly 19 to 24 goals. Rovers have conceded 21, probably bang on average among that group.
- But we have scored only 6 goals. SIX goals.
I think we have to sign another free agent striker. Forget Dodoo, we have to add another. What other short-term (viable) solutions are available to us? (I would not have been convinced about this until yesterday, btw, which was clearly a game we could have won with someone who could finish).
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
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Short term would indicate sorting within days. Who is there that is eligible? If I'm correct, they need to be a free agent.
Absolutely agree with your view, but not sure there is a short term solution
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
I think he already has, but not as what you want him to be.
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Could Bogle play in another position?
Desperate times.
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Left back as my old Dad (and Bentley Bullet) would say
Left back in dressing room
(For clarification BB is not my dad of course)
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New free agent or Bogle, either wouldn't have kicked a competitive ball in months, would take them weeks, 6 maybe? , to get any sort of match fitness, & besides, Bogle wasn't the answer when he was fit. So I'd scratch looking for a short term miracle.
Performances have improved, albeit not far enough yet, hopefully they continue to & we get Fej & Taylor back at some point soon.
The biggest problem for me now is confidence, it's clearly fragile, you can see it eroding during games when we're not getting the goals our play deserves.
A couple of wins would do us the world of good, not just table-wise. Buckle up & let's hope it happens sooner rather than later, & let's get the season started.
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
RW has got more chance of being the next pope.
The lines have been drawn in this I believe. No going back. He will be paid for the remainder of his contract and then pushed out of the door. Probably literally.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a young lad at Thorne Colliery who can kick a ball, and put it in the net. We could get him on peanut wages.
What’s to lose ?
Jamie Vardy started at Stockbridge park steels before a move to Halifax. Craig Mackail smith started out at St Albans city and Arlesey Town before he became much better known at Dagenham and Peterborough .
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a young lad at Thorne Colliery who can kick a ball, and put it in the net. We could get him on peanut wages.
What’s to lose ?
Jamie Vardy started at Stockbridge park steels before a move to Halifax. Craig Mackail smith started out at St Albans city and Arlesey Town before he became much better known at Dagenham and Peterborough .
I know lads who play for Thorne Colliery, the standard is very low, it’s light years away from league football. He’ll be nowhere near the lads we’ve got in the youth team and they’re not seen as a viable option.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. There is a young lad at Thorne Colliery who can kick a ball, and put it in the net. We could get him on peanut wages.
What’s to lose ?
Jamie Vardy started at Stockbridge park steels before a move to Halifax. Craig Mackail smith started out at St Albans city and Arlesey Town before he became much better known at Dagenham and Peterborough .
NR, I’m beginning to think you are EFW’s agent mate.
Seriously though, the leap from Thorne Colliery to L1 is massive in one go.
Even Jamie Vardy had to go through different levels and he is the incredible exception to the rule.
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I%u2019d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
We do not know what his attitude is like. RW is having nothing to do with him. There is a reason for that surely.
If RW is just being pig headed about him because he did not take up an offer at another club then that would be extremely childish and very stupid. If Richie is that stupid he will not become a successful manager.
I just think RW has lost patience with Bogle and his lack of desire, football ability and most of all lack of a football brain.
If all the latter is true then RW has to stay loyal to himself and the team ethic.
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We can throw all the strikers in the world on, our creativity is statistically the worst in the league.
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Ed Williams and Bogle would bang goals in for Thorne Colliery.
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I%u2019d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
We do not know what his attitude is like. RW is having nothing to do with him. There is a reason for that surely.
If RW is just being pig headed about him because he did not take up an offer at another club then that would be extremely childish and very stupid. If Richie is that stupid he will not become a successful manager.
I just think RW has lost patience with Bogle and his lack of desire, football ability and most of all lack of a football brain.
If all the latter is true then RW has to stay loyal to himself and the team ethic.
I'm willing to accept Wellens' judgement on freezing out Bogle and I've already stated on another thread that I don't believe he's been given nearly enough resource for the magnitude of the rebuild this season required. The one judgement call of Wellens that I do think he got wrong was forcing out Andy Butler. It's clear that Tom Anderson is not the leader we all believed him to be and that of the two, Butler was the leading force in the defensive line.
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
Please anybody stop mentioning him he is terrible
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
I assumed so...however the idea of not being able to terminate a contract is wrong.
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
I assumed so...however the idea of not being able to terminate a contract is wrong.
But if you terminate Bogle’s contract in full how does that free up wages to strengthen?
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We can throw all the strikers in the world on, our creativity is statistically the worst in the league.
This, I'm afraid. As much as we lack a decent striker who can finish, we also don't create much. We pass in nice triangles in midfield but we never stretch the play and never hurt teams. Our crossing is diabolical. We don't pass the ball into threatening areas, by and large, which is why we rarely look like scoring.
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
I assumed so...however the idea of not being able to terminate a contract is wrong.
Terminating a contract can only happen if a contract has been breached by one party and it is in the interests of the other party to do so.
What you're talking about is paying off a contract. As the majority of the outstanding would be payable this would impact the general cashflow. Also, if for some reason we found ourselves without RW, it's possible that a different manager may get some performance out of Bogle. So there's not a huge weight of reason to get rid of Bogle from the squad.
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You can terminate a contract but without a breach it is to be paid in full unless a player agrees to a mutual deal. Which Bogle and Williams dont appear to be willing to do, which is up to them.
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
I assumed so...however the idea of not being able to terminate a contract is wrong.
Then there is no point in having contracts if one party just decides they dont like it and can do what they like.
Its basic employment law.
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
Please anybody stop mentioning him he is terrible
And what we have up front instead is...what?
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If Bogle's the answer, what's the question?
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I’d throw Bogle in. Prove yourself lad.
Please anybody stop mentioning him he is terrible
And what we have up front instead is...what?
currently, marginally better than terrible but with the potential to be significantly better, and is in fact, getting better every game.
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If Bogle's the answer, what's the question?
Ooo let me - how about "what completely shite options have we got who have shown no desire to play for our club or act professionally towards it, that we could swap in for some lads who are at least putting some effort in and, in the case of Cukur, trying to build their skills and careers?".
Totally agree...Bogle is not the answer and if we drop any of our players for that waste of wages, I will think far far less of my Club. Thankfully, they ain't gonna do it so I don't need to worry.
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To clarify- I'd personally play Bogle as he's out best centre forward.
If he's gonna go in January - perfect (the club saves money) these deals can be arranged now (and not last minute of transfer window) if him and Williams will refuse all other contracts and are sticking with their full contracts then the club should either use them or get rid completely (unless they think they'll be put to use should Wellens leave before them)
If they are disruptive and a negative to the cause... terminate them and show you back the manager.
Right now it's all in limbo (or appears to be).
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Granted there's not a great deal of competition, but what has Bogle actually done to earn the accolade of "our best centre forward" ?
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History of scoring goals in the league - albeit not really for drfc!
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Bogle can’t play now Wellens has set his stall out. He’d lose all credibility if he suddenly starts picking him. Disagree that Wellens should have been so open or direct about wanting rid and not playing him but that’s fine now.
Should Wellens leave Bogle has to come back into contention he’s not great by any stretch but we’re hardly blessed with anything decent up front.
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Bogles true colours came out when Moore left. Dummy. pram.out.
Wellens was asked to leave when Ferguson made it obvious to him. Wellens thought he could play the same card with Bogle. It hasn’t worked.
Bogle has a contract and expects an amount of guaranteed income from that. But with that comes game time, fitness, reputation, and looking forward I ultimately value as a player.
Bogle has chosen hardball. Play no games. Lose match fitness. Tick over general fitness. Lose value. Lose reputation. Take the wage.
I can’t see him playing anything other than lower league footy after this year. If at all.
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Bogles true colours came out when Moore left. Dummy. pram.out.
Wellens was asked to leave when Ferguson made it obvious to him. Wellens thought he could play the same card with Bogle. It hasn’t worked.
Bogle has a contract and expects an amount of guaranteed income from that. But with that comes game time, fitness, reputation, and looking forward I ultimately value as a player.
Bogle has chosen hardball. Play no games. Lose match fitness. Tick over general fitness. Lose value. Lose reputation. Take the wage.
I can’t see him playing anything other than lower league footy after this year. If at all.
Bogles coming towards the end of his career and was offered a contract by the rovers which he signed and now should be honoured.
Wellens has been out of order with how hes dealt with the whole situation and i don't think hes got enough about him to recall Bogle.
It would be a display of real character to give Bogle gametime, which the club in my opinion needs, hes a very experienced CF and would add something.
Won't happen though because we have such a poor manager.
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If Wellens recalls Bogle he loses all credibility with the squad. He has to keep him exiled despite Bogle being our best striker.
It’s a learning curve for Wellens because he’s caused this problem himself.
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The decisions been made on Bogle for the long term good of the club and that’s that. If him not playing means he leaves in January rather than in the summer, that’s a good thing.
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The decisions been made on Bogle for the long term good of the club and that’s that. If him not playing means he leaves in January rather than in the summer, that’s a good thing.
All of which is fine and perfectly principled.
Problem comes when you do that and then give a two year contract to a player barely any better.
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Wellens obviously believes in players that might have a good future in front of them rather than behind them.
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Forced myself to look at the table. The problem is there written all over it in red marker, highlighted, shouting out to be addressed.
- Teams 10 down to 24 have all conceded roughly 19 to 24 goals. Rovers have conceded 21, probably bang on average among that group.
- But we have scored only 6 goals. SIX goals.
I think we have to sign another free agent striker. Forget Dodoo, we have to add another. What other short-term (viable) solutions are available to us? (I would not have been convinced about this until yesterday, btw, which was clearly a game we could have won with someone who could finish).
Actually I think the problem is the midfield which has been ineffective at setting up the goal chances and protecting the back four
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To sum up -
The defence can't defend, especially at set pieces
The midfield doesn't protect the defence and doesn't move the ball forward in any meaningful way
The attack doesn't make the runs required to receive the ball and can't finish their dinner
Diagnosing what the problem is with our team is like chucking your watch under a steamroller then taking it to Timpson's and asking them to identify what's wrong with it.
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To sum up -
The defence can't defend, especially at set pieces
The midfield doesn't protect the defence and doesn't move the ball forward in any meaningful way
The attack doesn't make the runs required to receive the ball and can't finish their dinner
Diagnosing what the problem is with our team is like chucking your watch under a steamroller then taking it to Timpson's and asking them to identify what's wrong with it.
3 players that is all it will take to turn what you think obviously is a bunch of no hopers into a very decent team in League 1.
I have said this about 10 times on this forum in the last 3 weeks and i get the feeling i am in a minority with this view.
That said if RW can get those 3 players we need in January then i believe I will be proved right.
First thing is though this next set of matches do need to yield a significant points total or we may be too far adrift as the next 4 are all against teams who either are or will be fighting for survival.
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History of scoring goals in the league - albeit not really for drfc!
I'd say Fej is our best striker tbh.
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To sum up -
The defence can't defend, especially at set pieces
The midfield doesn't protect the defence and doesn't move the ball forward in any meaningful way
The attack doesn't make the runs required to receive the ball and can't finish their dinner
Diagnosing what the problem is with our team is like chucking your watch under a steamroller then taking it to Timpson's and asking them to identify what's wrong with it.
I think the first part of your post meant there is / was no need for the Timpson / Watch analogy :scarf: :laugh:
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We probably need 3 quality players to give us a chance of staying up in the new year - the problem Wellens will have is that clubs do not make quality players available in the January window. There will be plenty of minefields a la Bogle around but I fear very few that will offer us the salvation that we might need by then ! Maybe there will be some good loan options in January and I am sure our recruitment team is already working hard to identify any players that would improve our squad.
I think we need a confidence booster and Saturday and Tuesday offer us that opportunity - Lets hope we can win both!
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11 goals.
Lowest in the football league outside of the Prem.
Has to be at least one striker ready to sign start of transfer window or we'll for certain go down. We are slowly losing contact now.
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One of the biggest problems is no u21/23s side thanks to our last managers. We cannot bring anyone in without offering a pro contract on trial over 17yrs old. It is nonsense because 16 to 18 year olds are scholars linked to an educational programme.
Once they start their scholarship at 16 for two years they play u18s football for two years and then the decision is made either offer a contract or release them. But then where do they play, they either go out on loan or train with the first team, no natural progression.
So the club is stuck two ways, anyone 16 who comes after the programme starts plays as an amateur with the u18s and that is a big commitment, especially when they are good enough to play non league for a few quid a game, and anyone over 18 yrs old can only train with the first team and cannot play for the first team without being contracted, and they would invariably be good enough to play a good standard of non league football for money.
So we are stuck with having to do business for first team players only in transfer windows unless they are free agents, scouting and trying to recruit from top non league teams is not viable and frustrating out of the same window time line, although the club have been made aware of some top prospects, but playing wise we are snookered.
The reason for all this lies with managers who are no longer at the club who got rid of the important and under utilised by them u23s reserve side.
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11 goals.
Lowest in the football league outside of the Prem.
Has to be at least one striker ready to sign start of transfer window or we'll for certain go down. We are slowly losing contact now.
I just hope we don’t do the usual thing of waiting until almost the end of the transfer window to bring players in.
To beat Mansfield and get the dream draw is really important now.
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In Bogle, Cukur and Dodoo we have somehow recruited the three least effective strikers in the professional game. Don’t forget, in 97/98 by this point in the season the Prince had scored six league goals by himself. These three have scored less than half that between them.
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Beat Mansfield is the only dream at the moment
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History of scoring goals in the league - albeit not really for drfc!
I think you need to check that history,
Absolutely does not have a history of scoring goals in the league
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thanks to our last managers
Are you sure?
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History of scoring goals in the league - albeit not really for drfc!
I think you need to check that history,
Absolutely does not have a history of scoring goals in the league
Correct 7 goals in L1, the majority of his goals were in the national league and L2 with Grimsby and he’s dined out on them ever since. However after listening to Wellens post match interview bemaning the lack of experienced players at his disposal he perhaps should consider bringing him back into the fold
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He's done this over and over. I know he thinks he's doing the best long term for the Rovers by forcing them out...but it's not how you manage a small squad bereft of forward quality.
He exiled Bogle and banked on Dodoo and Cukur to which it turns out are both inferior to Bogle as an out and out centre forward.
Richie played a dangerous game and should have managed the situation better. As he was banking also on Fej coming back from injury (but honestly who's to say Fej would have fared better under Wellens).
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Bogle has done nothing for years,
Dodoo is a much better player than Bogle that’s a fact
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He's done this over and over. I know he thinks he's doing the best long term for the Rovers by forcing them out...but it's not how you manage a small squad bereft of forward quality.
He exiled Bogle and banked on Dodoo and Cukur to which it turns out are both inferior to Bogle as an out and out centre forward.
Richie played a dangerous game and should have managed the situation better. As he was banking also on Fej coming back from injury (but honestly who's to say Fej would have fared better under Wellens).
Your last sentence sums it up for me CR.
We don't even create any chances for Dodoo, Cukur, Vilca, Hiwula etc so why would it be any different if Fej came back in?
We'd just have a different player up there with the same end result.
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If he's got 0 chance of playing and has been rejecting contracts elsewhere - terminate his contract and send out the message (or are we hoping to offload in January and save some wages?)
Contracts can't just be terminated, that's the whole point of a contract
They can be paid out (usually with a discount) mutual consent - ie Bruce
Bruce has been paid his contract in full
I assumed so...however the idea of not being able to terminate a contract is wrong.
Then there is no point in having contracts if one party just decides they dont like it and can do what they like.
Its basic employment law.
Truth of the situation is that most contracts are not worth the paper they are written on in UK until someone has been in employment somewhere at least 2 years as it is impossible to sue for unfair dismissal up until that point unless you can show that being dismissed happened due to you having protected characteristics under the equalities act. By the way for sake of clarity, ethically I think we should honour both Bogle's and Williams' contracts.
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We gave Dodoo a 2 year deal
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We gave Dodoo a 2 year deal
:suicide: :suicide:
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Dodoo can’t score goals if he doesn’t get the ball in the right areas. The service to the strikers is abysmal.
If you listen to Dodoo in his latest interview, he puts pressure on himself.
That half chances he should be scoring, though he admitted that he only got a couple of those.
Put Ronaldo ,in that side and he would have to create them for himself .
I personally think he is being too hard on himself you need the guys behind you creating but they aren’t doing that .