Marquis up front on his own..

[RoversAlias]

Mrfrostsdad...I remember both of those incidents and was furious with the one that he passed sideways. He had a good opening to shoot and instead squared it straight to a Rotherham defender. Rowe was the only player he must've aimed for but he wasn't really on to pass to.

[idler]

I was surprised by that pass as well, we just gave possession away rather than have a crack.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

It's the same size pitch and goals. When your striker gets chances, he should not be passing it off when he's in the best position. You can debate all you like about his contribution in general play, but what he does in front of goal matters. He may have been unlucky with the hand ball incident but two equally good opportunities had gone begging by then.

[BillyStubbsTears]

When JM plays up front in his own we need to get midfield runners going beyond him, this doesn’t happen.

Bang on. That barely happened once in the first half on Saturday. It did happen in the second half and it transformed the game. We had Rotherham on the back foot for much of the second half, precisely because Marquis was the focus for bringing Coppinger and Rowe into the game as an attacking threat. During the first half, those two had been playing far too wide so Marquis was in a hopeless position. Even if he won the ball there was no-o e within 30 yards to lay it off to. When we got tighter in the second half, we controlled play in their half and pulling Coppinger and Rowe innartower gave space for (in particular) Blair to make those runs down the wing.

I don't now if it was wrong tactics or wrong implementation by the the players in the first half, but credit to Ferguson for working thechange at half time. We looked like a different side and Marquis looked a different player.

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't think Marquis' lack of confidence in front of goal is only down to playing against better players in league one. I think he lost it towards the end of last season. It could be that he has been sussed by officials for his falling over tactics and as a result, they are hesitant to give decisions in his favour, even when they are justified. I believe the same applies to Williams.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB 

WHAT lack of confidence in front of goal? Thee man already has 5 goals in 16 league appearances this season. When was the last time we had a striker in Tier 3 who had scored that many goals at this stage of the season?

[Bentley Bullet]

May's only started 7 times in the league and has got 3. Whiteman has started 14 times and has 4.

By lack of confidence, I'm talking about Marquis' reluctance to shoot on occasions when the opportunity is there, an example of which was there to see last Saturday. Perhaps his reluctance to take penalties is a dead giveaway.

[NickDRFC]

It might not be a reluctance on his part to take penalties. Maybe Fergie is reluctant to give them to him - he missed half the ones he took last year didn't he?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

That wasn't what I asked. I'll ask again. Who was the last striker for us who had 5 goals in Tier 3 by this stage of the season?

[GazLaz]

BB

That wasn't what I asked. I'll ask again. Who was the last striker for us who had 5 goals in Tier 3 by this stage of the season?

Nathan Tyson possibly.

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know, and neither do I particularly care, but playing in a team managed by Darren Ferguson I expect 5 goals is not too incredible an achievement.

[since-1969]

No one thinks Marquis is rubbish but Rovers chose him after his amazing performances of last season , yet it’s obvious to anyone that he’s lost something and he’s barely the same enigmatic Player who bossed his was to nearly 30 goals . His efforts is just that, his running off the ball and possession on the ball are just not the same . He has scored but it’s not making any difference to his overall effect, it’s as though he’s coasting through games instead bullying and being more proactive. Alfie May runs into the grown and into Player twice his weight but has an effect on the game . Marquis starts & stops but has little end product or effect on the game , it passes without any difference being made .

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

That wasn't what I asked. I'll ask again. Who was the last striker for us who had 5 goals in Tier 3 by this stage of the season?

Nathan Tyson possibly.

Nope

[BillyStubbsTears]

I don't know, and neither do I particularly care, but playing in a team managed by Darren Ferguson I expect 5 goals is not too incredible an achievement.

The "don't know" bit I can live with. The "don't care" is a bit immature. If you're going to throw out criticisms, you should have some context in which to make them.

I reckon we've had two players in recent years who has scored that many league goals by this time of the season in Tier 3.

Heffernan didn't manage it.
Hayter didn't manage it
Paynter didn't manage it.
Brown didn't manage it
Tyson didn't manage it.
Fortune-West didn't manage it
Hume didn't manage it.
Roberts didn't manage it.
Robinson didn't manage it.
Williams didn't manage it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edit:
Guy didn't manage it - how could I have forgotten about him?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only two examples I can find are Cotterill (5) in 12/13 and McIndoe (7) in 04/05.  Goes without saying that neither of them were having to do the thankless job of leading the line.

Just kind of puts a bit of perspective on it.

[steve@dcfd]

No one thinks Marquis is rubbish but Rovers chose him after his amazing performances of last season , yet it’s obvious to anyone that he’s lost something and he’s barely the same enigmatic Player who bossed his was to nearly 30 goals . His efforts is just that, his running off the ball and possession on the ball are just not the same . He has scored but it’s not making any difference to his overall effect, it’s as though he’s coasting through games instead bullying and being more proactive. Alfie May runs into the grown and into Player twice his weight but has an effect on the game . Marquis starts & stops but has little end product or effect on the game , it passes without any difference being made .

Rovers chose Rowe and Coppinger the two players who are the most experienced at this level, the two players who along with Marquis had a big part to play last season. Both players have had little effect this season as well in fact on Saturday they were luxury players. Neither effecting the score or stopping Rotherham front the front. All the players are finding it hard at this level especially against hardworking robust sides.

[since-1969]

In a nut shell! We are just not quiet up to the standard required .

[BillyStubbsTears]

In a nut shell! We are just not quiet up to the standard required .

Depends what you mean by "the required standard". If we take a lower-mid table position as a reasonable outcome, then I'd say we are looking like we should be perfectly well up to that standard. If (IF) we have a bit of luck with injuries, I see no reason (based on recent form) why we can't do a good bit better than that.

My optimism is based on having Badry back. He's the closest thing we've got in the squad to a mester and I thought he was excellent on Saturday. It's notable that we've only conceded 2 league goals whilst he's been on the pitch. Saturday, and that howler when Lawlor took his eye off the back pass against Portsmouth. The back three is a vital foundation for the sort of football that Ferguson wants us to play and I just keep my fingers crossed that they all stay fit.

[steve@dcfd]

In a nut shell! We are just not quiet up to the standard required .

If the standard is to finish above half way then you are right. But we have the players we’ve got hopefully they do their best to achieve the highest we can.

[Bentley Bullet]

I don't know, and neither do I particularly care, but playing in a team managed by Darren Ferguson I expect 5 goals is not too incredible an achievement.

The "don't know" bit I can live with. The "don't care" is a bit immature. If you're going to throw out criticisms, you should have some context in which to make them.

I reckon we've had two players in recent years who has scored that many league goals by this time of the season in Tier 3.

Heffernan didn't manage it.
Hayter didn't manage it
Paynter didn't manage it.
Brown didn't manage it
Tyson didn't manage it.
Fortune-West didn't manage it
Hume didn't manage it.
Roberts didn't manage it.
Robinson didn't manage it.
Williams didn't manage it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edit:
Guy didn't manage it - how could I have forgotten about him?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only two examples I can find are Cotterill (5) in 12/13 and McIndoe (7) in 04/05.  Goes without saying that neither of them were having to do the thankless job of leading the line.

Just kind of puts a bit of perspective on it.

So, because none of those players on your list achieved 5 goals in tier 3 at this stage of the season it is proof that Marquis is better than all of them?

[BillyStubbsTears]

No BB.

It's context for the many complaints on here that Marquis isn't scoring enough.

It's just a fact to throw into the discussion. I usually find facts are a bit more useful than opinions.

[since-1969]

That a matter of opinion!

[Bentley Bullet]

Perhaps Marquis himself thinks he's scored enough. Maybe that's why he passed the ball to one of the Rotherham players when the home crowd were screaming for him to shoot. I put that incident, along with others instances, like when he looks for a foul instead of attempting to score legitimately as a reason why he hasn't scored more, especially now that it appears officials have got wise to him.

[Dutch Uncle]

I don't know, and neither do I particularly care, but playing in a team managed by Darren Ferguson I expect 5 goals is not too incredible an achievement.

The "don't know" bit I can live with. The "don't care" is a bit immature. If you're going to throw out criticisms, you should have some context in which to make them.

I reckon we've had two players in recent years who has scored that many league goals by this time of the season in Tier 3.

Heffernan didn't manage it.
Hayter didn't manage it
Paynter didn't manage it.
Brown didn't manage it
Tyson didn't manage it.
Fortune-West didn't manage it
Hume didn't manage it.
Roberts didn't manage it.
Robinson didn't manage it.
Williams didn't manage it.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Edit:
Guy didn't manage it - how could I have forgotten about him?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The only two examples I can find are Cotterill (5) in 12/13 and McIndoe (7) in 04/05.  Goes without saying that neither of them were having to do the thankless job of leading the line.

Just kind of puts a bit of perspective on it.

BST - you have put your finger precisely on a huge historical failing of ours - to find a goalscorer at tier/level 3 since the non-regionalised level 3 was introduced in 1958-59.

In our 17 seasons at level 3, the highest number of league goals scored in a full season by a striker is a measly 13. This record is shared by John Regan, Colin Douglas and Billy Paynter - none of whose names I see beng put forward as our best striker ever. Glyn Snodin (18) and Neil Redfearn (14) scored more but were not strikers. We have never found a striker who could score even 15 at this level.

Strikers often go on a run early in a season, and then fizzle out. We have not even ever had that. After 17 games the only strikers to better John Marquis' 5 are Laurie Sheffield (7 before being criminally sold), John Regan, Colin Douglas and Neil Woods (6 each). The ones who have 'failed' at this level include Alick Jeffrey, Nathan Tyson, Andy Williams, James Hayter, Paul Heffernan, Chris Brown, Greg Blundell, Neil Roberts, LFW, Brian Deane, Alan Warboys, Peter Kitchen (OK - only half a season as a youngster)............................some really good names there.

 

[drfchound]

Great stats Dutch.

[Alan Southstand]

It absolutely amazes me how anyone can criticise Marquis at all. Just who the hell do they think is going to replace him and make things better? We just don't possess the same sort of player in our ranks and we certainly can't afford someone better, so we are where we are!

The last player we had who did the job better was, arguably, Billy Sharp and that's going back a bit.

The thing we need to get right, when playing this formation, is getting the 2 who play just behind him up there supporting him and busting a gut to make themselves available. Trouble is, Copps is getting on and Rowe seems to drift in and out of games and, strangely, both seem to dodge criticism!

We're getting there, but we need something else, come January, and it will cost, as I think we are a bit short of experience and strength in the middle of the park, as well as pace. Matty Blair was starting to get behind before he was subbed, but we didn't have that same threat on the left! Having Kiwomya fit and available would be a good start and another option, but we lack know-how elsewhere.

[graingrover]

I saw Marquis live on Saturday and the replay on Sky and can't understand where the criticism of him comes from other than blind prejudice .

[drfchound]

I saw Marquis live on Saturday and the replay on Sky and can't understand where the criticism of him comes from other than blind prejudice .

As someone wrote on another thread, certain players are not liked by some fans and even when they do something really good it isn't acknowledged.
Only the bad things are noted and written about.

[Bentley Bullet]

That's not the case with me. I always give credit when it is due. I criticise Marquis for instances such as the one against Rotherham when he passed the ball instead of shooting when there was a clear chance to do so. I also criticise him for falling over, looking for fouls instead of getting on with doing his job legitimately. I've criticised Williams for doing exactly the same.

As for not acknowledging the really good things they do I can assure you that I'm on my feet with the rest of us when they score. I just dislike being denied the opportunity to do so when a clear-cut chance isn't taken.

[drfchound]

BB, i haven't singled anyone out on the forum in particular (although there are a couple who it would apply to).
In the stadium i hear people having a go at some players before they have set foot on the pitch when they are coming on as a sub, saying stuff like "he is crap, why is he coming on" and then ranting about anything they do.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB

Once again you're being inconsistent. You criticise Marquis for (as you say) not doing "doing his job legitimately". But you've called time and time again for our players to cheat.

Which one is it?

My two pennorth is that I don't see Marquis diving. I can't recall ever seeing that. I do see him drawing fouls and being a little less that straight with his positioning to do so. I thought at first that he'd done that for the first penalty shout on Saturday but watching again, I think he's been badly treated. He had every right to try to shield the ball and he's been flattened as he did so. By the way, those of you who claim that he can't hold the ball, have a look at that move again. Inch-perfect control of a 50 yard pass with a defender 18 inches from him. Immediately onto the attack, riding two challenges and being brought down by a third.  But MFD reckons we'd be better off with the old lass in the row in front of him on inplace of Marquis. Strange, what some folk refuse to see in front of their eyes.