Viking Supporters Co-operative

Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Donnyjim on July 29, 2017, 04:57:30 pm

Title: 4-0..
Post by: Donnyjim on July 29, 2017, 04:57:30 pm
Could be a very long season. Defensive frailties staring everyone in the face. Everyone other than DF it seems. #anypositives ?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on July 29, 2017, 04:58:53 pm
Cue the panic, end of the world nigh etc.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: PDX_Rover on July 29, 2017, 05:01:57 pm
The end is nigh. Lemmings.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 29, 2017, 05:02:39 pm
Probably only one of the players who played the second half (when we conceded all 4 goals) will start against Gillingham. Most of the first team was rested. It was a nothing result.

Played most of the game with only 10 men too.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 29, 2017, 05:03:18 pm
Utter threadbare squad. First 11 just about ok. Any more injuries and we are stuffed. Positives? Are there any?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: keith79 on July 29, 2017, 05:05:04 pm
Yes no injuries to the 1st 11
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: mushRTID on July 29, 2017, 05:06:21 pm
Will May get a 3 match ban?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: esdailles left foot on July 29, 2017, 05:08:50 pm
Why isn't the manager playing the strongest 11 we have currently. The season is 7 days away
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 29, 2017, 05:13:29 pm
Will May get a 3 match ban?

Fergie sounds like it depends on if the ref reports it or not.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: esdailles left foot on July 29, 2017, 05:15:45 pm
Why is ref sending players off in a friendly. Just tell fergie to sub him
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: bobbymax on July 29, 2017, 05:19:04 pm
I'm amazed how some forum members get through the day!
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Goole Rover on July 29, 2017, 05:24:40 pm
Why is ref sending players off in a friendly. Just tell fergie to sub him

Agree, I thought the Wednesday player may have walked if it had been a competitive game instead of the booking.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Rovers91 on July 29, 2017, 05:25:01 pm
Obviously going down to 10 doesn't help but shows that we have serious lack of depth in the team and at the back. Hopefully get some more defenders in because we will leak goals if we don't.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: roversam on July 29, 2017, 05:26:15 pm
Donny jim aka Mr negative
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: glosterred on July 29, 2017, 05:29:31 pm
Not seeing this serious lack of depth, there is a lack of depth but it is not serious, look at who was missing from the team today.

COYR
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: roversam on July 29, 2017, 05:29:45 pm
Esdailles left foot aka Mr negative
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: steve@dcfd on July 29, 2017, 05:35:46 pm
He wanted to give fringe players a game but the strategy failed because we went down to 10 men but first and not least he chose the wrong players.

The midfield was a transfer listed player, released player, trialist and a player whose best position is RB or RWB not right of a diamond.

How can we hope to defend or create anything then go down to 10 men.
What is does show the released player and transfer listed player were right decisions.

The trialist is signing on Monday according to Liam Hoden tweet from DF.
There is no plan to sign a centre half I hope that's tounge in cheek.

But we got what we've got until near the end of August I guess.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RoversAlias on July 29, 2017, 05:46:18 pm
Embarrassing thread, clearly weren't at the game. We had 10 men for more than half of it and almost our entire first XI was absent. Second half was youth team, get a bloody grip.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Bezza on July 29, 2017, 06:03:49 pm
not bothered about the result today, but feel sorry for the fans that went.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: MrFrost on July 29, 2017, 06:12:01 pm
Why play McSheffrey?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: pib on July 29, 2017, 06:12:20 pm
Don't read much into friendly results, but why did we play such a weakened side? Isn't it about match fitness for the first team at this stage?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: GazLaz on July 29, 2017, 06:15:34 pm
Don't read much into friendly results, but why did we play such a weakened side? Isn't it about match fitness for the first team at this stage?

They all played 90 minutes on Wednesday.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: pib on July 29, 2017, 06:16:24 pm
Don't read much into friendly results, but why did we play such a weakened side? Isn't it about match fitness for the first team at this stage?

They all played 90 minutes on Wednesday.

I get that, but surely some involvement today would've been beneficial.  Oh well.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 06:19:33 pm
Why is ref sending players off in a friendly. Just tell fergie to sub him
Ferguson has to take somE blame for the sending off, as we all could see after Mays yellow they was winding him up for the fall, DF should of brought  him off himself. no it was not good but they kicked us off the park first half and the reff did nothing but to much hoof ball and giving it away mason the main culprit then we was shit but not many of them will start the season for us anyway
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: eastender on July 29, 2017, 06:22:02 pm
Don't read much into friendly results, but why did we play such a weakened side? Isn't it about match fitness for the first team at this stage?

They all played 90 minutes on Wednesday.

I get that, but surely some involvement today would've been beneficial.  Oh well.

We've got 3 tough games in 7 days next week , keep the starting 11 fresh and hungry.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 06:44:41 pm
I'm sure they chessi will struggle this season after that.  I would love is to play them in a cup game with our first 11as it was there 1st team
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: darren61 on July 29, 2017, 06:48:22 pm
I'm sure they chessi will struggle this season after that.  I would love is to play them in a cup game with our first 11as it was there 1st team
Thats what im hoping for  Vicar, going back with our best team and putting five past them.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 06:49:29 pm
I think so to
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyBazR0ver on July 29, 2017, 06:51:46 pm
Can understand DF not taking any undue risks. As fans, if you choose to follow the team to these friendlies, you've also take the risk that it might not be our First XI.

Let's hope we're up for it next week!
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: The Red Baron on July 29, 2017, 06:52:37 pm
Why play McSheffrey?

I have a feeling he will get a short term deal.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: eastender on July 29, 2017, 06:52:54 pm
I'm sure they chessi will struggle this season after that.  I would love is to play them in a cup game with our first 11as it was there 1st team

A few quotes off their Board

 "I'm getting a doorstep loan to lump on us for the title after that."

Then this beauty

"We just easily beat a team who last season sat pretty at the top end of our division. For 70mins we were the better side against a team who ran away with league one last season.Finally.
WE LOOK GOOD. "
      :lol:

Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 06:54:07 pm
There fans were laughing at us coming out of the ground say I g how the flock did we go up last season with that team thinking if we can with that lot they should piss it.  When I said it was our second string then said a likely story and we are shit and go straight down
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 06:55:49 pm
I'm sure they chessi will struggle this season after that.  I would love is to play them in a cup game with our first 11as it was there 1st team

A few quotes off their Board

 "I'm getting a doorstep loan to lump on us for the title after that."

Then this beauty

"We just easily beat a team who last season sat pretty at the top end of our division. For 70mins we were the better side against a team who ran away with league one last season.Finally.
WE LOOK GOOD. "
      :lol:


we played with 10 men for most of that period
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: mushRTID on July 29, 2017, 06:58:21 pm
If they want to get excited about beating 10 men, 2nd string and kids then let them. It's quite funny actually
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: mrfrostsdad on July 29, 2017, 06:59:54 pm
Why play McSheffrey?

Allegedly he's training with us to 'keep him fit' but that doesn't explain why he's playing for us.

Expect Ferguson to say 'he looks like a new 'boy' (a la Andy Williams)  and offer him a new contract before next Saturday 😂😂😂

But in all seriousness: given all the injuries we have, and maybe May facing a three match ban, we look really short of players capable of playing in League 1 week after week, often twice a week. But pre-season rarely tells us anything.

For me, we're desperately short of a good centre half until Baudry comes back. And if Kiwomya is out till Christmas and May for three games we don't have that many options up front. I don't buy this 'Williams is a different player bullcrap' he didn't leave because no-one wanted to pay him the wages we are.

It's been a funny old pre season. Not one of the players we transfer listed has gone permanently, and if you discount Mason who was here last season, we've brought in three players, one on loan and one who's crocked and possibly long term
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 07:14:22 pm
Williams is playing like a new boy but aworse than last season never eput any or little effort in
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Susan Abbott on July 29, 2017, 07:32:29 pm
Can't deduce much from this game , as I'm sure it should be impossible to repeat this performance.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 07:35:17 pm
Just glad it came in a nothing game and not the league, gives us time to put things right
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 07:41:05 pm
At least the Crow can't be to blame
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: podrover73 on July 29, 2017, 08:08:44 pm
Could be a very long season. Defensive frailties staring everyone in the face. Everyone other than DF it seems. #anypositives ?
How did you manage to contain yourself until: 16:57  before putting together such a positive post.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: esdailles left foot on July 29, 2017, 08:26:49 pm
Esdailles left foot aka Mr negative
Get f**ked
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RedJ on July 29, 2017, 08:43:50 pm
Amazing how certain posters only come crawling out of the woodwork when there's an opportunity to stick the boot in, eh...

Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: selby on July 29, 2017, 08:49:47 pm
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: NickDRFC on July 29, 2017, 08:50:57 pm
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.


How did Middleton play?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RoversAlias on July 29, 2017, 09:31:02 pm
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.


How did Middleton play?

Not well overall.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: the vicar on July 29, 2017, 09:35:01 pm
Middleton, Mason , and Alcock was shit
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: roversam on July 29, 2017, 09:47:37 pm
Esdailles left foot aka Mr negative
Get f**ked
language Timothy
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: esdailles left foot on July 29, 2017, 09:59:07 pm
Amazing how certain posters only come crawling out of the woodwork when there's an opportunity to stick the boot in, eh...
We've been shocking pre season and not addressed defensive frailties fergie looks like a man who's run out of ideas or money ?


Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: steve@dcfd on July 29, 2017, 10:00:48 pm
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.


Blair best position is RB or RWB then when he was at his best for us last season. Mason is not a RB, Alcock is not good enough in any postion.
If he starts next week then the defence will be awful.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: steve@dcfd on July 29, 2017, 10:04:19 pm
Amazing how certain posters only come crawling out of the woodwork when there's an opportunity to stick the boot in, eh...
We've been shocking pre season and not addressed defensive frailties fergie looks like a man who's run out of ideas or money ?



It's easy to blame the manager because he will not say money is tight. But we have already been told money is not a problem from the VSC people in the know. So we wait and see who DF is allowed to sign before the transfer window finishs.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Herbert Anchovy on July 29, 2017, 10:06:56 pm
Our reserve team lose to their first team and it's the end of the world!! Some people need to get a grip. It's a friendly for god sake. You can't read anything into them. Last week Hull City beat Benfica in a friendly. Are we to assume that our 12 fingered cousins from down the road are better than Benfica?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: goalkick on July 29, 2017, 10:11:11 pm
My only worry is most of these are our back up players.heaven forbid more injuries if we have to rely on some of them.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 29, 2017, 10:16:05 pm
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.


Blair best position is RB or RWB then when he was at his best for us last season. Mason is not a RB, Alcock is not good enough in any postion.
If he starts next week then the defence will be awful.


Not sure what's happened with Alcock, he was decent in League One last time.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: dickos1 on July 30, 2017, 05:39:48 am
It's pre season, nothing's happened to him
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: sheffield exile1 on July 30, 2017, 08:52:02 am
As someone who did go yesterday I just felt what was the point of it all. As has been said it was mainly second string players and trialists. I cant actually remember a shot on target. Why wasn't this one behind closed doors as it did have the feel of a reserve match... it was a shame  we had to pay for travel/match ticket/time.....
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RedRover45 on July 30, 2017, 08:56:35 am
Can anyone who was there yesterday confirm if there was a programme printed ? Cheers.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Rovers91 on July 30, 2017, 09:00:27 am
Blair does not look half the player he was in the first half of last season,the french lad looked slow and the game was too physical for him and he kept getting caught on the ball.
  Mason and Alcock carried on where they left off last season and were awful,and McSheffrey looks well off the pace.
  Marosi kept us in the game,and Alfie got what he deserved.Not a very good showing at all.


Blair best position is RB or RWB then when he was at his best for us last season. Mason is not a RB, Alcock is not good enough in any postion.
If he starts next week then the defence will be awful.

Blair did a job at RB last season in league 2 but he will get caught out there this season. Not his fault because he's not a natural right back, he may get away with the wing back position with that extra cover behind him. Alcock is not good enough which is why we need to sign a new right back.
Would have made sense to keep Lund for preseason to see how he did.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: mrfrostsdad on July 30, 2017, 10:00:56 am
Amazing how certain posters only come crawling out of the woodwork when there's an opportunity to stick the boot in, eh...
We've been shocking pre season and not addressed defensive frailties fergie looks like a man who's run out of ideas or money ?



It's easy to blame the manager because he will not say money is tight. But we have already been told money is not a problem from the VSC people in the know. So we wait and see who DF is allowed to sign before the transfer window finishs.

You're quite right Steve, but the issue is that Ferguson said he wanted all his 'business' doing early so new signings got a full pre season with everyone else. It hasn't happened yet again. I never expect it too. Why do the club feed us the same line every single season? Why not just say 'we'll bring in who we can when we can?'

Not as attractive as what we usually get fed, but a bit nearer the truth
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 30, 2017, 10:34:56 am
It's pre season, nothing's happened to him

Going on some of last season too x
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DearneValleyRover on July 30, 2017, 10:42:50 am
If we are awful and get thumped by Gillingham then I will be worried, pre season rarely tells a story, season before last we looked good pre season and got relegated when most thought we would make the playoffs. Newcastle got thumped by Orient a few years ago and everyone was expecting them to be relegated they went on to win the title. We are 3 players light I think we all agree on that including the manager but the players we do have should be more than capable of holding their own.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Lesonthewest on July 30, 2017, 10:44:11 am
Wasn't there yesterday so can't comment on the performance, what I will say though is after the end of last season & what I've seen pre-season we still need a proper uncompromising defender & or midfielder, the first 11 looks pretty decent but like last season lacks a player that can pull us up by the laces when the going gets tough, we have the flair, we don't have the balls & dare say we will get bullied out of games  without a proper mister in there.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: walter the red on July 30, 2017, 12:07:08 pm
Ok then ,what do our supporters think will be our first 11 for Gillingham ? do not include the current " sick,lame and lazy "brigade ?
Also who will be our no/1 goalkeeper -Marosi or Lawler ?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RoversAlias on July 30, 2017, 12:12:27 pm
Lawlor is #1, Fergie has confirmed that.

I think there's a couple of line-ups he could go with, depending on the formation. The ones who are certs to start are probably Lawlor, Butler, Andrew, Blair, Rowe, Coppinger and Marquis.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: sheffield exile1 on July 30, 2017, 12:15:57 pm
Can anyone who was there yesterday confirm if there was a programme printed ? Cheers.
Yes it was a compendium of all their pre season games £2
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 30, 2017, 12:25:25 pm
Marquis Mandeville

Rowe Whiteman Coppinger
Andrew------------------------------Blair
Mason Butler Wright
Lawlor
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RedRover45 on July 30, 2017, 01:10:07 pm
Can anyone who was there yesterday confirm if there was a programme printed ? Cheers.
Yes it was a compendium of all their pre season games £2

Cheers for that
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: RedJ on July 30, 2017, 01:59:38 pm
If we are awful and get thumped by Gillingham then I will be worried

Why? first game of the season means f**k all. We were awful at Accrington and lost and we were in poll position for seventy minutes on the final day of the season.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 30, 2017, 06:09:56 pm
Who or what do we have available on the bench who is going to turn a game in our favour (should it be necessary)?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Chris Black come back on July 30, 2017, 06:56:34 pm
What some folk are probably rightly concerned about is that we ended last season playing like a sack of shit and while pre-season is hardly a precise predictor, we have far from sparkled these last couple of games against fairly modest opponents. Ferguson needs to show that at this higher level he has a plan. Last season (which he ended up making a real mess of at the end) should have been a lot easier than we made it look at times. League One is going to be far tougher.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: steve@dcfd on July 30, 2017, 07:15:06 pm
The thing that concerns me is the starting eleven will only have two new   players in it. Both good additions.
We should have more.
I believe in DF but cannot understand why we have failed to bring in more better players.
The plan from the club was to improve with a 5 year plan, I hope by the end of August we can see more evidence of that.
Unlike Chris I want to see the club not just DF show a high level plan with money to back it, they might have it but as yet the evidence does not show it.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: dickos1 on July 30, 2017, 07:33:23 pm
What some folk are probably rightly concerned about is that we ended last season playing like a sack of shit and while pre-season is hardly a precise predictor, we have far from sparkled these last couple of games against fairly modest opponents. Ferguson needs to show that at this higher level he has a plan. Last season (which he ended up making a real mess of at the end) should have been a lot easier than we made it look at times. League One is going to be far tougher.

Are you calling a championship play off side modest competition?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Chris Black come back on July 30, 2017, 09:16:36 pm
No.

I am calling a team from the league immediately above us, "fairly modest".
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: dickos1 on July 30, 2017, 09:20:51 pm
Losing 2-1 at home to a side full of internationals and with a premiership wage bill isn't something that we should be worrying about
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Chris Black come back on July 30, 2017, 09:34:09 pm
That is good news. Thanks for confirming. Was getting worried!
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 30, 2017, 09:34:50 pm
We're not worrying about the first 11, it's what is behind them that concerns me and, I dare say, quite a few others. Do you not see a problem at all?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Bessie Red on July 31, 2017, 12:26:41 am
Who or what do we have available on the bench who is going to turn a game in our favour (should it be necessary)?

Issam Ben Khemis!!
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on July 31, 2017, 06:53:21 am
Great, 1 player! That's it then, we're sorted!
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on July 31, 2017, 07:43:38 am
Williams, May, Ben Khemis, Garratt, Marosi, Beestin, Longbottom

Someone when Baudry is fit.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: roversdude on July 31, 2017, 07:03:49 pm
Wonder if Stoke forum imploded when they got beaten by Crewe at the weekend
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: GazLaz on July 31, 2017, 07:24:16 pm
Wonder if Stoke forum imploded when they got beaten by Crewe at the weekend

And Ipswich.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Bessie Red on August 01, 2017, 01:20:00 am
Great, 1 player! That's it then, we're sorted!

You asked who or what do we have available to change a game in our favour so I told you who. No need to get a strop on!! 🤣🤣
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 01, 2017, 06:30:58 am
Bessie, nobody is getting a strop on. I've made my point and you have more or less confirmed it's validity. We're going to trust that an untried and untested young French lad is going to turn a game for us. That just about sums up this pre-season imo.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: big fat yorkshire pudding on August 01, 2017, 07:08:49 am
Bessie, nobody is getting a strop on. I've made my point and you have more or less confirmed it's validity. We're going to trust that an untried and untested young French lad is going to turn a game for us. That just about sums up this pre-season imo.

If you've got a few quid we could sign messi. Surely we should take some gambles?
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: dickos1 on August 01, 2017, 07:10:03 am
Everyone said the same last year and we comfortably got promoted.
Made two excellent last minute signings and everything was fine.

Why not just wait and see what happens instead of moaning and whittling prematurely.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: Alan Southstand on August 01, 2017, 07:35:03 am
Bfyp, how to take what someone has written and put your own spin on it! Nobody is suggesting we sign Messi as you well know. It would be nice if we stuck with what the manager claimed we were going to do, I.e. Get 5 players in that didn't depend on the 5 transfer listed players leaving. Furthermore, it was well documented what those 5 positions were going to be and a cb was clearly a priority!

I've told you a million times, don't exaggerate! ;)
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: drfchound on August 01, 2017, 08:13:12 am
Williams, May, Ben Khemis, Garratt, Marosi, Beestin, Longbottom

Someone when Baudry is fit.




Well, Longbottom helped change the outcome of the home game against Blackpool last season so i see your point.
Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: DonnyOsmond on August 01, 2017, 08:21:53 am
And Husband changed the Leicester game and now he's moving to clubs for a million pounds.  ;)

I hope you don't write off every player after one mistake.

Title: Re: 4-0..
Post by: drfchound on August 01, 2017, 11:33:39 am
Some very serious posters on here aren't there?

I dont think anyone could really say that Longbottom is a player who could come on and change a game (in our favour of course) after the fleeting glimpses we have seen of him in the first team.