EFL season over

[selby]

 The government or a higher authority needs to step in and insist that the game gets a governing body with some clout before they allow the clubs a trading licence.
  The system in place is a nonsense and will never work for the good of the game, and at the moment looks to favour those who make the most noise.
  From the first few weeks of the season and the Bolton and Bury situation it is obvious that clubs and individuals can run rings around the system which has allowed persons of dubious past reputations and nobodies to infiltrate the game for their own gain skimming off the top.
   The way that the National League, and leagues in non league administer the game at their level put this lot to shame.
  It is obvious the EFL will NOT solve their own problems to sustain the game for supporters in this country to the standard needed without getting a proper governing body, ditching the spivs and fly by nights and having a open and cohesive plan for the future.

[Chris Black come back]

Selfishly, we have no real skin in this game other than voting for whatever disadvantages Peterborough the most. Probably best for us to wrap up now - and presuming next season starts in August with some degree of certainty - start planning for that as soon as possible, not least sorting out squad.

[Frankie Rennie]

The government or a higher authority needs to step in and insist that the game gets a governing body with some clout before they allow the clubs a trading licence.
  The system in place is a nonsense and will never work for the good of the game, and at the moment looks to favour those who make the most noise.
  From the first few weeks of the season and the Bolton and Bury situation it is obvious that clubs and individuals can run rings around the system which has allowed persons of dubious past reputations and nobodies to infiltrate the game for their own gain skimming off the top.
   The way that the National League, and leagues in non league administer the game at their level put this lot to shame.
  It is obvious the EFL will NOT solve their own problems to sustain the game for supporters in this country to the standard needed without getting a proper governing body, ditching the spivs and fly by nights and having a open and cohesive plan for the future.

The reason non league is run well Selby, is simply because it’s about football not money. It’s totally about self interest above that and you can see that clearly under the CV crisis. Even contemplating playing football whilst people are dying and key workers still can’t get tests or PPE is an utter disgrace. The fact that it’s being supported by government with totally different rules to the rest of us is atrocious. My daughters a nurse in Rotherham Gen and I can’t hug either her or my granddaughter due to self distancing yet 22 footballers can play contact sport. It’s a total disgrace and football shouldn’t happen until it’s safe for all of us.

On a football front, cobbling together some silly ppg system will never be fair and why should clubs like Rovers who have every chance of making the play offs be denied the chance when we all know at this stage of the season results are completely unpredictable. If games can’t be played properly it can’t uphold its integrity and should just be voided until it’s properly safe to play again.

[Alan Southstand]

This is a sodding mess and it serves to highlight that the efl, as a few of us have suspected for some time, are, quite simply, inadequate. In these traumatic and unprecedented times, as has already been said many times, you need strong leadership and the football world continues to prove that they have anything but that very thing.

Personally, I tend to favour finishing the season now, by whatever means, and let’s get on with building for next season, from whatever remnants of the squad we have left. At the same time, I can see where BST is coming from, wrt our current position, when considering the Bolton fiasco, and it does seem to be particularly harsh on us. However, what matters more to me, is that we come out of this whole thing in as positive a state as we possibly can and build on what was a pretty positive season. The manager, his staff and all the players deserve credit for that and, further deserve backing to go one better next season.

Hope everyone is keeping safe and well.

[DonnyOsmond]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-would-make-play-offs-if-peterborough-united-chairmans-suggestion-how-end-season-adopted-2855534

We could be in the play offs.

[IDM]

Hi Alan, good to see you on here, hope you are well.?  Same goes for everyone..

I don’t necessarily agree - I favour voiding the season if we can’t play it out properly - but ultimately us as fans don’t have a say on the resolution.

[drfchound]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-would-make-play-offs-if-peterborough-united-chairmans-suggestion-how-end-season-adopted-2855534

We could be in the play offs.

McAnthony is just trying to gather support for his play off hopes by suggesting that 8 to 10 teams should be involved.

[drfchound]

They surely shouldn't be allowing the divisions to just do as they please? It messes with the sporting integrity of things. If League One is decided by a different method to League Two, it raises all sorts of questions. And then you have the issue over promotion/relegation. If League One votes for no relegation and all, how can League Two then have four teams come up? There's no way we're having a 27 team league next season.

It's looking like a right mess. The PL/Championship, League One, League Two and National Leagues potentially all doing completely different things to sort the season out. And then lower non-league voided which is another different solution. Madness.

RA, I've edited my comment above, sorry.

However, I think you're over complicating it. We've known for quite a while that the EPL will restart. And as an entity unto themselves they can do as they wish.

The EFL is more complicated. For LG1 and 2 teams the finances will be key. LG2 was easy, no big monied clubs to sway a vote against the consensus, but LG1 does have a few. However it only takes a simple majority to carry through a decision and I would suggest that the majority would want an end to the season. If you have nothing at stake why would you go to all the trouble and extra expense? Promotion and relegation will take place, its just how that's achieved that will take some discussion.


And to add to that, here's the comments of the Exeter City Chairman (fan owned club) who confirms my point;

At a meeting on Friday, it was unanimously indicated by the 24 teams in Sky Bet League Two that they would support proposals for the season to be cut short as long as long as promotion from the division took place, along with the play-offs.

Nothing has been finalised yet and the outcome will be determined on all three divisions – Championship, League One and League Two – agreeing on relegation and promotion issues as well as ratification coming from the EFL and FA boards.

SM, I haven’t read the all of this thread so my question may have been answered.
I mentioned yesterday, if six clubs want to play and sixteen don’t, what happens.
You have just said that it only takes a simple majority to come to a decision so I guess that in itself answers my question.
It would seem then that if a vote is taken next week to finish the season straight away and use the ppg system to determine final league standings then the six club cartel are overruled.
Just out of interest, why couldn’t the clubs have voted today.

Well, firstly if they do go to a vote then a simple majority suffices. But it didn't get to that point in the LG1 meeting. In discussions there was no consensus, unlike LG2 which did. The EFL board will not force the clubs into submission, there is no mandate for that. So, they need to agree on how to proceed, they couldn't do that today but extra proposals will be forthcoming before the next meeting.

Secondly they have to agree to terminate the season, once that is done they then have to agree on how that happens. But that will happen once all decisions are in so some kind of harmony across all the divisions exists.

SM, when you say “they need to agree “ and “they have to agree”, who is they.
Is it the EFL or the clubs?
I’m not sure from the way you have written your post.

If it is the clubs that have to agree then there is the potential that things could drag on indefinitely.
If it is the EFL then I would have thought that as the governing body they should suggest that a vote is to be taken.
Also, irrespective of the possible play offs that have been suggested, where does any of that leave Tranmere or the clubs just above them?
Does the current bottom three stay the same or is there an argument brewing there.
I find it hard to believe that all of the L2 clubs were in favour of ending the season with a ppg solution when surely at least one or two clubs fancied their chances of getting into the promoted teams group.
Yet they decided to call an end to the season.

I said a few days ago that the Peterborough instigated thing would mean that the EFL wouldn’t be able to get an early decision and it is beginning to look that way.
I can see this dragging on for quite a while yet.

[DonnyOsmond]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-would-make-play-offs-if-peterborough-united-chairmans-suggestion-how-end-season-adopted-2855534

We could be in the play offs.

McAnthony is just trying to gather support for his play off hopes by suggesting that 8 to 10 teams should be involved.

It makes sense though. In a normal season we'd still have 9/10 games left. Should the promotion places be decided by the fact in the second half the season Oxford and Rotherham have potential played weaker opposition so far than the others?

[Filo]

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers-would-make-play-offs-if-peterborough-united-chairmans-suggestion-how-end-season-adopted-2855534

We could be in the play offs.

McAnthony is just trying to gather support for his play off hopes by suggesting that 8 to 10 teams should be involved.

In that scenario he has my support 😀

[silent majority]

They surely shouldn't be allowing the divisions to just do as they please? It messes with the sporting integrity of things. If League One is decided by a different method to League Two, it raises all sorts of questions. And then you have the issue over promotion/relegation. If League One votes for no relegation and all, how can League Two then have four teams come up? There's no way we're having a 27 team league next season.

It's looking like a right mess. The PL/Championship, League One, League Two and National Leagues potentially all doing completely different things to sort the season out. And then lower non-league voided which is another different solution. Madness.

RA, I've edited my comment above, sorry.

However, I think you're over complicating it. We've known for quite a while that the EPL will restart. And as an entity unto themselves they can do as they wish.

The EFL is more complicated. For LG1 and 2 teams the finances will be key. LG2 was easy, no big monied clubs to sway a vote against the consensus, but LG1 does have a few. However it only takes a simple majority to carry through a decision and I would suggest that the majority would want an end to the season. If you have nothing at stake why would you go to all the trouble and extra expense? Promotion and relegation will take place, its just how that's achieved that will take some discussion.


And to add to that, here's the comments of the Exeter City Chairman (fan owned club) who confirms my point;

At a meeting on Friday, it was unanimously indicated by the 24 teams in Sky Bet League Two that they would support proposals for the season to be cut short as long as long as promotion from the division took place, along with the play-offs.

Nothing has been finalised yet and the outcome will be determined on all three divisions – Championship, League One and League Two – agreeing on relegation and promotion issues as well as ratification coming from the EFL and FA boards.

SM, I haven’t read the all of this thread so my question may have been answered.
I mentioned yesterday, if six clubs want to play and sixteen don’t, what happens.
You have just said that it only takes a simple majority to come to a decision so I guess that in itself answers my question.
It would seem then that if a vote is taken next week to finish the season straight away and use the ppg system to determine final league standings then the six club cartel are overruled.
Just out of interest, why couldn’t the clubs have voted today.

Well, firstly if they do go to a vote then a simple majority suffices. But it didn't get to that point in the LG1 meeting. In discussions there was no consensus, unlike LG2 which did. The EFL board will not force the clubs into submission, there is no mandate for that. So, they need to agree on how to proceed, they couldn't do that today but extra proposals will be forthcoming before the next meeting.

Secondly they have to agree to terminate the season, once that is done they then have to agree on how that happens. But that will happen once all decisions are in so some kind of harmony across all the divisions exists.

SM, when you say “they need to agree “ and “they have to agree”, who is they.
Is it the EFL or the clubs?
I’m not sure from the way you have written your post.

If it is the clubs that have to agree then there is the potential that things could drag on indefinitely.
If it is the EFL then I would have thought that as the governing body they should suggest that a vote is to be taken.
Also, irrespective of the possible play offs that have been suggested, where does any of that leave Tranmere or the clubs just above them?
Does the current bottom three stay the same or is there an argument brewing there.
I find it hard to believe that all of the L2 clubs were in favour of ending the season with a ppg solution when surely at least one or two clubs fancied their chances of getting into the promoted teams group.
Yet they decided to call an end to the season.

I said a few days ago that the Peterborough instigated thing would mean that the EFL wouldn’t be able to get an early decision and it is beginning to look that way.
I can see this dragging on for quite a while yet.

You're making the same mistake that everybody makes, the EFL are not a governing body, they are a competition organiser.

So, the EFL are the clubs! There is not an us and them. The EFL is the 71 clubs that currently exist and participate in the various competitions, LG2, LG1 and the Championship.

Again, when I say they need to agree I mean the clubs need to agree, the respective officials will then carry out the clubs wishes.

This extract from the EFL statement might make things a bit clearer for you;

League One 
 
There were varied views shared in League One and it was determined that there would be a further period of reflection and consultation to understand what creative solutions could be implemented.  It was acknowledged that the need to find innovative and creative solutions was of paramount importance as was the need for decisions to be taken quickly.   
 
In addition, Championship Clubs met earlier this week and have indicated that it is their wish to play on and conclude the season.   
 
The EFL will continue to work with all its members to progress the discussions and arrive at the necessary decisions as appropriate in what remain challenging and complex circumstances.

[bedale rover]

SM
Lots of stuff about the clubs and the EFL

But where if anywhere do the players (PFA) get involved?
Will they be consulted?
What if they disagree?

[DonnyBazR0ver]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

[IDM]

If you’re going to play that many games, you may as well play out the season.

Yes I know that those proposals only mean a fraction of the fixtures played, but in my opinion you either play them all or none at all.

[DonnyOsmond]

Surely just do knock out? That's 7 games in total and just play them at neutral venues. 3 games max per team. You could be done in two weeks.

If there was a way to have a mini tournament to promote two that'd be better imo. I don't think Rotherham are far enough ahead to be given it yet. Only Coventry are.

[NewDonny]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I really have no idea why people are debating this, MacAnthony's suggested ideas are self fulfilling and are a country mile wide of the current competition rules around the payoffs so I seriously doubt they have got any legs whatsoever.

[DonnyBazR0ver]

But it seems its about whether McAnthony can get enough votes for it. Assuming he can persuade the top 10 and a few 'no objections' then he could carry it I guess??

[silent majority]

SM
Lots of stuff about the clubs and the EFL

But where if anywhere do the players (PFA) get involved?
Will they be consulted?
What if they disagree?

The PFA have been involved all the time, they have been meeting with the EPL, EFL and FA for some time.

They are actually supporting the EPL with regard to Project Restart, so I can't see them objecting to the EFL running a series of games to see them to the end of the season. Obviously precautions will need to be taken, and they'll run their eye over them, but its not their major concern.

Don't forget to play any game needs a safety certificate, therefore the SAG and Safety Officers will have a major say in what happens and when.

[NewDonny]

But it seems its about whether McAnthony can get enough votes for it. Assuming he can persuade the top 10 and a few 'no objections' then he could carry it I guess??

I don't believe that for a second, that just what he wants us all to believe DBR.

He needs to get a 75% majority vote to get the season kept alive let alone his ideas which let's be frank, tare ridiculous at best, if the clubs agreed to that they might as well all agree to finish the season and from what I am hearing that's not going to happen.

The Chairman at Rochdale is spot on in my opinion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52690856

[IDM]

75% or a simple majority..

Which is it.?

[DonnyOsmond]

But it seems its about whether McAnthony can get enough votes for it. Assuming he can persuade the top 10 and a few 'no objections' then he could carry it I guess??

I don't believe that for a second, that just what he wants us all to believe DBR.

He needs to get a 75% majority vote to get the season kept alive let alone his ideas which let's be frank, tare ridiculous at best, if the clubs agreed to that they might as well all agree to finish the season and from what I am hearing that's not going to happen.

The Chairman at Rochdale is spot on in my opinion.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52690856

Team close to relegation places in wanting season to be called off shocker.

[bedale rover]

SM
Lots of stuff about the clubs and the EFL

But where if anywhere do the players (PFA) get involved?
Will they be consulted?
What if they disagree?

The PFA have been involved all the time, they have been meeting with the EPL, EFL and FA for some time.

They are actually supporting the EPL with regard to Project Restart, so I can't see them objecting to the EFL running a series of games to see them to the end of the season. Obviously precautions will need to be taken, and they'll run their eye over them, but its not their major concern.

Don't forget to play any game needs a safety certificate, therefore the SAG and Safety Officers will have a major say in what happens and when.

Thanks that helps

[vaya]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I really have no idea why people are debating this, MacAnthony's suggested ideas are self fulfilling and are a country mile wide of the current competition rules around the payoffs so I seriously doubt they have got any legs whatsoever.

He's getting increasingly desperate as time goes on.

"Continue the season"
"Sporting integrity"
"Extend the Play-Offs"
"Inner City Sumo"
"Monkey Tennis"

[Bristol Red Rover]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I think it would go something like this with single games, not home and away:
Game A - 7th v 10th
Game B - 8th v 9th

Game C - 5th v Winner A
Game D - 6th v Winner B

3rd v Winner D
4th v Winner C

Final

So that can be as little as 4 match days in total, no need for police delays as no crowds. I'd prefer this scenario as the norm anyway though the 10th? team replaced by the top relegated team.

[drfchound]

Hasn’t Darren Moore already voiced an opinion to not play any more games this season.
If that has transmitted to our players then it might be hard to get them motivated enough to play.

Also, as I posted earlier, what about Tranmere.
Are they just relegated or will they be having a play off series with the three clubs above them?
Mark Palios was saying that he thought they had just begun to get a winning run together and might have escaped the drop.
Is that any different to Peterbro?

[IDM]

No.
 
The ppg scenarios assume constant form rather than where a team may be at, compared to others, with the quality of the opposition for remaining fixtures.

Nor do they consider form.

Hence the least worst solution other than playing all the games is to void the season.

[silent majority]

75% or a simple majority..

Which is it.?

A simple majority.

[IDM]

Thanks SM.

So that leads to the question, where’s NewDonny getting his/her 75% majority claim from.?

[The Red Baron]

Apparently the EFL want to use Unweighted PPG. This means we still finish 9th but pushes Ipswich out of the top ten.

https://twitter.com/mjshrimper/status/1261336578108121088?s=20

I have a feeling the play-offs will probably end up being 3-8. I have no issue with that, btw. I think our long term future might be better served by not playing again this season.

[BillyStubbsTears]

I can see the temptation in MacAnthony's proposal but I wonder whether it's making a bit of a circus out of how to conclude the season.

So, if I've got this right, the top 2 are promoted whatever, and the next 8 play a 7 game mini league to determine either a) the third place promotion or b) to determine the next 4 who play off again to establish the 3rd promoted team??

1. How would this minii league be set up in terms of home or away? For eg, as we've played Ipswich away, then would we be guaranteed Ipswich at home?

2.Do we start this mini league from scratch or start from the points already accumulated??

3.You could go the other way and have a straight knock out depending on luck of the draw

Based on current league positions equalised on points per game

3rd v 10th
4th v 9th
5th v 8th
6th v 7th.

There's so many possible ways to complicate the situation even more but a straight knockout would limit the number of games left to play which surely has to be desirable given the Covid crisis.

I really have no idea why people are debating this, MacAnthony's suggested ideas are self fulfilling and are a country mile wide of the current competition rules around the payoffs so I seriously doubt they have got any legs whatsoever.

That's a non-argument.

We are in an entirely unprecedented situation. ANY outcome is going to be one that requires competition rules to be re-written.

If you disagree with the proposals, by all means do so, but do it on their merits. Not on the basis of this non-argument.