18,000 train services cancelled in a single month must be a record surely?

[danumdon]

Certainly, so you will be able to show me where in her puff piece she stated any facts?

[SydneyRover]

Certainly, so you will be able to show me where in her puff piece she stated any facts?

As usual miller you have it arse about, it's you that has to support your assertion that she is misleading.

[danumdon]

I'll alert you when the next fantasy piece makes its appearance, looks like they will have to keep regurgitating this rubbish as they unions dig in.

[SydneyRover]

I'm just happy you are using the Guardian as part of your news intake, at least that bit will be accurate.

[danumdon]

Says everything to me when people like you cannot bring themselves to questions guff like this because its printed in a publication like this.

Narrow minded and dogmatic servitude come to mind, others may also say your deluded as you look on from afar but cannot bring yourself to listen to others closer to the truth.

[SydneyRover]

Maybe you need to get a life miller and bring something to the table that is important, the government is in disarray with so much corruption and cronyism going on it would warrant another Bazalgette being employed to clean out westminster.

[danumdon]

Your just venting now, from afar, government corruption and cronyism is rife, everyone who's right in the head accepts that, what it might have to do with a discussion about railways in the north is just your way of padding out additional nonsense to beef up your weak point.

Before telling others to get a life i'd maybe look at your own, im sure your location must have some reasonable distractions to tear you away from an ailing football clubs board the other side of the world.

How odd!

[SydneyRover]

Says everything to me when people like you cannot bring themselves to questions guff like this because its printed in a publication like this.

Narrow minded and dogmatic servitude come to mind, others may also say your deluded as you look on from afar but cannot bring yourself to listen to others closer to the truth.

venting hmmm

[BillyStubbsTears]

Your just venting now, from afar, government corruption and cronyism is rife, everyone who's right in the head accepts that, what it might have to do with a discussion about railways in the north is just your way of padding out additional nonsense to beef up your weak point.

Before telling others to get a life i'd maybe look at your own, im sure your location must have some reasonable distractions to tear you away from an ailing football clubs board the other side of the world.

How odd!

Was it rife before 2010?

[danumdon]

What’s this got to do with the thread ?

[BillyStubbsTears]

You're saying that Govt corruption is rife.

I'm asking if that was the case before the current lot came to power. I'd have thought that was a key question, no?

[danumdon]

You're pal stated that there was government corruption and cronyism, i just agreed with the point before asking him the same question about hijacking the thread and bring up things not related, its noted that you and your pal do this often to deflect from points which don't suit the narrative your pushing.

So i'll ask again, what's that got to do with a thread about railway performance in the north?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Fair did DD. I'd misunderstood your post.

I'm not very impressed at your little dig about deflection, and ordinarily I'd suggest you back that up with evidence or withdraw it.

But f**k it. It's Xmas.

[Colin C No.3]

Sydney. Merry Christmas.

Will you be sitting down to the traditional emu roast?

If so, just out of idle curiosity, can you give me an idea of cooking times & oven temperatures?

[SydneyRover]

kangaroo knob is all the rage atm and it's best eaten tartare style ......... apparently

[danumdon]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/21/transpennine-express-services-worse-under-state-owned-olr

Oh dear, it seems like the cluster f*ck that TPE made of running the service has a knock on effect.

What i would say about returning train operators to become state run is that it will just not work if the State are not prepared to fund it correctly.

Let this be another wakeup call for Starmer, who himself has already stated he does not intent to re nationalise the railway which i think he's wrong in doing so.

[scawsby steve]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/21/transpennine-express-services-worse-under-state-owned-olr

Oh dear, it seems like the cluster f*ck that TPE made of running the service has a knock on effect.

What i would say about returning train operators to become state run is that it will just not work if the State are not prepared to fund it correctly.

Let this be another wakeup call for Starmer, who himself has already stated he does not intent to re nationalise the railway which i think he's wrong in doing so.

Just another one of his reneged upon promises, DD. We're going to have to get used to them.

[DRFC_AjA]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

[i_ateallthepies]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

And put even greater distance between the super-wealthy and the rest.

[danumdon]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

[Sprotyrover]

My lad drives trains, 5 years ago Northern were recruiting 7000 applied for 30 jobs, they got the list down to 60 who were then required  to do a 5 hour computer based aptitude test, on pasting that the 15 left had a 2 hour session with a psychiatrist before being offered a Job!
Anyone can apply and do, very few pass the CBAT.

[danumdon]

The psychometric test used to have a pass rate of less than 50% so they made it easier so employers would have a wider range of candidates to choose from.

It’s now a pass rate of just over 51%

The ironic thing is that the type of people who do most of the shouting and bad mouthing about how train drivers don’t deserve their pay rate, etc would be the very candidates who could never pass the tests due to their negativity and dogmatic attitudes, the psychologists would have a field day and get rid in the first 15mins. Actually like a few on here, with their very set political outlooks  they would never be able to pass due to their extreme rigid beliefs, this type of characteristic trait would never pass the psychologists.

With regards to allowing anyone to have a go, our company now will not entertain anyone attending an interview unless they have as a minimum a Level 4 (HNC/HND) engineering qualification.

[DRFC_AjA]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

[danumdon]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

You know i should be surprised that you've come back here still spouting without even a minute understanding into what your supposedly complaining about, but unfortunately I'm not!

You keep talking about ticket clippers/conductors, as if that's the be all and end all of Railway careers, you do relies the railway requires just a few more staff than just ticket collectors, or is it the fact that this position fits your narrative as someone who gets paid more than you would like? i don't know, did you get turned down for a ticket collectors job? do you actually work? you come across as someone i would never consider employing just through the small example of your attitude you have demonstrated here.

You then start ranting about  it being akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small? and that i'm hiding behind "its a technical job nonsense"and the public don't buy it. Like i said previously , i dont know what you do, if you actually do anything, but if you want to work in my area of specialism on the Railway you would need as a minimum a level 4 or 5 quantification (HND?HNC) that's just to get you thorough the door, The "test" that you refer to as totally irrelevant will only get you into an interview for a train drivers position, nothings guaranteed at that point, if you got past that point you would then spend the next 3 years as a PQA trainee driver, who if they did not keep on top of their coursework, assessments, DRA's and rules exams would ensure you would never reach a position as qualified, even then you would be required to demonstrate  your competence on a regular bass through an ongoing competence management system, it never ends, some staff also require business management qualifications just as in any business, including collage study.

You then go on to talk about "pure job protectionism" so you, in effect don't wish to see workers protecting the terms and conditions of their job? you show even more ignorance in not realising that many rail staff work weekends as part of their working week so in effect not being inflexible in their working.

Ive probably gone on too long now but im just trying to educate someone who rants about rail workers but yet knows nothing about what they require to be able to complete their job roles successfully.

Maybe you are just envious of what certain trades can earn on the railways, i don't know, you just come across as very ignorant and your not prepared to educate yourself on something you are ranting about so come across a proper plum.

Maybe next time don't get taken in by tabloid nonsense.

[roverstillidie91]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

You know i should be surprised that you've come back here still spouting without even a minute understanding into what your supposedly complaining about, but unfortunately I'm not!

You keep talking about ticket clippers/conductors, as if that's the be all and end all of Railway careers, you do relies the railway requires just a few more staff than just ticket collectors, or is it the fact that this position fits your narrative as someone who gets paid more than you would like? i don't know, did you get turned down for a ticket collectors job? do you actually work? you come across as someone i would never consider employing just through the small example of your attitude you have demonstrated here.

You then start ranting about  it being akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small? and that i'm hiding behind "its a technical job nonsense"and the public don't buy it. Like i said previously , i dont know what you do, if you actually do anything, but if you want to work in my area of specialism on the Railway you would need as a minimum a level 4 or 5 quantification (HND?HNC) that's just to get you thorough the door, The "test" that you refer to as totally irrelevant will only get you into an interview for a train drivers position, nothings guaranteed at that point, if you got past that point you would then spend the next 3 years as a PQA trainee driver, who if they did not keep on top of their coursework, assessments, DRA's and rules exams would ensure you would never reach a position as qualified, even then you would be required to demonstrate  your competence on a regular bass through an ongoing competence management system, it never ends, some staff also require business management qualifications just as in any business, including collage study.

You then go on to talk about "pure job protectionism" so you, in effect don't wish to see workers protecting the terms and conditions of their job? you show even more ignorance in not realising that many rail staff work weekends as part of their working week so in effect not being inflexible in their working.

Ive probably gone on too long now but im just trying to educate someone who rants about rail workers but yet knows nothing about what they require to be able to complete their job roles successfully.

Maybe you are just envious of what certain trades can earn on the railways, i don't know, you just come across as very ignorant and your not prepared to educate yourself on something you are ranting about so come across a proper plum.

Maybe next time don't get taken in by tabloid nonsense.

I work on the railway, have done for the last 8 years. The issue is people don't necessarily know how the industry works unless they work in it.

Which is the same for other sectors, believe everything the MPs and tabloids tell them.

Not necessarily their fault, they just need correcting and explaining how it all works.

A lot of people are jealous because the unions actually get them a good deal for pay and conditions, the latter is important as well.

The railway also relies on overtime to keep things running that is a fact.

Also this thing about driverless trains, even if that was to be the case there would still be a driver sat in the cab anyway.

[DRFC_AjA]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

You know i should be surprised that you've come back here still spouting without even a minute understanding into what your supposedly complaining about, but unfortunately I'm not!

You keep talking about ticket clippers/conductors, as if that's the be all and end all of Railway careers, you do relies the railway requires just a few more staff than just ticket collectors, or is it the fact that this position fits your narrative as someone who gets paid more than you would like? i don't know, did you get turned down for a ticket collectors job? do you actually work? you come across as someone i would never consider employing just through the small example of your attitude you have demonstrated here.

You then start ranting about  it being akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small? and that i'm hiding behind "its a technical job nonsense"and the public don't buy it. Like i said previously , i dont know what you do, if you actually do anything, but if you want to work in my area of specialism on the Railway you would need as a minimum a level 4 or 5 quantification (HND?HNC) that's just to get you thorough the door, The "test" that you refer to as totally irrelevant will only get you into an interview for a train drivers position, nothings guaranteed at that point, if you got past that point you would then spend the next 3 years as a PQA trainee driver, who if they did not keep on top of their coursework, assessments, DRA's and rules exams would ensure you would never reach a position as qualified, even then you would be required to demonstrate  your competence on a regular bass through an ongoing competence management system, it never ends, some staff also require business management qualifications just as in any business, including collage study.

You then go on to talk about "pure job protectionism" so you, in effect don't wish to see workers protecting the terms and conditions of their job? you show even more ignorance in not realising that many rail staff work weekends as part of their working week so in effect not being inflexible in their working.

Ive probably gone on too long now but im just trying to educate someone who rants about rail workers but yet knows nothing about what they require to be able to complete their job roles successfully.

Maybe you are just envious of what certain trades can earn on the railways, i don't know, you just come across as very ignorant and your not prepared to educate yourself on something you are ranting about so come across a proper plum.

Maybe next time don't get taken in by tabloid nonsense.

Fancy certificates don't mean something extra, coz I gone got me a NVQ I iz well educated int I. My bin man probably has a health and safety certificate that I couldn't pass, it's not relevant to what I was saying. Fully support a bin man going on strike because he is a "hard working man", "one of the people " etc, as is a teacher, as is a nurse. But sorry rail staff particularly drivers, you simply aren't

You're blocking modernisation, you're protecting unnecessary jobs, and you're in this privileged position thar you want more more more. Like I said,  Royal Mail will be gone soon and then those picket liners with their massive pensions and not having to work sundays will be at amazon wishing they'd never striked. The same can't come soon enough

And no I haven't been rejected for job on the rails  quite happy in my current well paid job that I will not take for granted nor pretend I'm "one of the hard done by just trying to make a living" like those well qualified rail folk

I fully recognise that overpaid luddites is only a part of the problem with our mess of a railway and how its run from the government clowns down. But its a pure embarassement to pay €5 to €20 for a high speed ticket on Europe and then look at what we've got

[tyke1962]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

You know i should be surprised that you've come back here still spouting without even a minute understanding into what your supposedly complaining about, but unfortunately I'm not!

You keep talking about ticket clippers/conductors, as if that's the be all and end all of Railway careers, you do relies the railway requires just a few more staff than just ticket collectors, or is it the fact that this position fits your narrative as someone who gets paid more than you would like? i don't know, did you get turned down for a ticket collectors job? do you actually work? you come across as someone i would never consider employing just through the small example of your attitude you have demonstrated here.

You then start ranting about  it being akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small? and that i'm hiding behind "its a technical job nonsense"and the public don't buy it. Like i said previously , i dont know what you do, if you actually do anything, but if you want to work in my area of specialism on the Railway you would need as a minimum a level 4 or 5 quantification (HND?HNC) that's just to get you thorough the door, The "test" that you refer to as totally irrelevant will only get you into an interview for a train drivers position, nothings guaranteed at that point, if you got past that point you would then spend the next 3 years as a PQA trainee driver, who if they did not keep on top of their coursework, assessments, DRA's and rules exams would ensure you would never reach a position as qualified, even then you would be required to demonstrate  your competence on a regular bass through an ongoing competence management system, it never ends, some staff also require business management qualifications just as in any business, including collage study.

You then go on to talk about "pure job protectionism" so you, in effect don't wish to see workers protecting the terms and conditions of their job? you show even more ignorance in not realising that many rail staff work weekends as part of their working week so in effect not being inflexible in their working.

Ive probably gone on too long now but im just trying to educate someone who rants about rail workers but yet knows nothing about what they require to be able to complete their job roles successfully.

Maybe you are just envious of what certain trades can earn on the railways, i don't know, you just come across as very ignorant and your not prepared to educate yourself on something you are ranting about so come across a proper plum.

Maybe next time don't get taken in by tabloid nonsense.

Fancy certificates don't mean something extra, coz I gone got me a NVQ I iz well educated int I. My bin man probably has a health and safety certificate that I couldn't pass, it's not relevant to what I was saying. Fully support a bin man going on strike because he is a "hard working man", "one of the people " etc, as is a teacher, as is a nurse. But sorry rail staff particularly drivers, you simply aren't

You're blocking modernisation, you're protecting unnecessary jobs, and you're in this privileged position thar you want more more more. Like I said,  Royal Mail will be gone soon and then those picket liners with their massive pensions and not having to work sundays will be at amazon wishing they'd never striked. The same can't come soon enough

And no I haven't been rejected for job on the rails  quite happy in my current well paid job that I will not take for granted nor pretend I'm "one of the hard done by just trying to make a living" like those well qualified rail folk

I fully recognise that overpaid luddites is only a part of the problem with our mess of a railway and how its run from the government clowns down. But its a pure embarassement to pay €5 to €20 for a high speed ticket on Europe and then look at what we've got

Any thoughts on the £500m that got paid out to shareholders last year .

[danumdon]

I see a fresh new load of strikes announced, can we please end the myth and break it to rail staff that A) you aren't heroes that worked through COVID in the same sense as NHS staff B) you aren't "working" people who just want a "fair wage"....you're extremely overpaid for the job you do and your working practices are archaic.

When you're getting paid more than a nurse for clipping a ticket, or 70k for pulling a lever BOTH of which could easily be done by a machine then you lose any moral high ground. Roll on automated trains and signalling ASAP

The ignorance in your posting is quite staggering,

How do you know that they are extremely overpaid for what they may do, do you know what their JD entails?

How do you know they pull a lever that could easily be done by a machine? if so why is it not done by said machine?

Do you know how much automated trains and signalling cost? it would make HS2 look like a lucky bag buy.

Its postings like this which give the general public a very poor impression of what qualified and skilled Railway workers, drivers and engineers actually do.

Do you actually think that any employers would pay their staff that rates you state to pull LEVERS that could be "done by a machine" ?

Do you even have the first inkling in what it takes to train these highly skilled staff who are in demand all over the developed world?

Unbelievably myopic and ignorant to come out with such guff.

Educate yourself before you stick the boot in, you may just surprise yourself.

It's akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small. You could argue their jobs are technical, need to pass hard exams but they aren't on strike pretending they're the common man working people. So don't hide behind the "it's a technical job" nonesesnse the public doesn't buy it. Having to do a test is totally irrelevant to the point

You don't need to get paid more than a nurse for clipping someone's ticket, a job that's completely unnecessary in this modern age. Get rid and make the ticket cheaper. Honestly folk like you probably still want clippies on buses

You know as well as I do it's pure job protectionism. Here's hoping this union does for the rail what unions did for the cars and are about to do for royal mail. I can't wait for all the moaning royal mail workers to end up at Amazon and realise how good they've actually got it, don't even work Sundays and who on earth chooses to use royal mail these days  luckily working from home makes rail more and more irrelevant

Having worked abroad the sad thing is British workers reputation is being lazy unproductive luddites and it just gets proven again and again. From an economic POV our productivity per person is third world

You know i should be surprised that you've come back here still spouting without even a minute understanding into what your supposedly complaining about, but unfortunately I'm not!

You keep talking about ticket clippers/conductors, as if that's the be all and end all of Railway careers, you do relies the railway requires just a few more staff than just ticket collectors, or is it the fact that this position fits your narrative as someone who gets paid more than you would like? i don't know, did you get turned down for a ticket collectors job? do you actually work? you come across as someone i would never consider employing just through the small example of your attitude you have demonstrated here.

You then start ranting about  it being akin to bankers going on strike because their bonuses are too small? and that i'm hiding behind "its a technical job nonsense"and the public don't buy it. Like i said previously , i dont know what you do, if you actually do anything, but if you want to work in my area of specialism on the Railway you would need as a minimum a level 4 or 5 quantification (HND?HNC) that's just to get you thorough the door, The "test" that you refer to as totally irrelevant will only get you into an interview for a train drivers position, nothings guaranteed at that point, if you got past that point you would then spend the next 3 years as a PQA trainee driver, who if they did not keep on top of their coursework, assessments, DRA's and rules exams would ensure you would never reach a position as qualified, even then you would be required to demonstrate  your competence on a regular bass through an ongoing competence management system, it never ends, some staff also require business management qualifications just as in any business, including collage study.

You then go on to talk about "pure job protectionism" so you, in effect don't wish to see workers protecting the terms and conditions of their job? you show even more ignorance in not realising that many rail staff work weekends as part of their working week so in effect not being inflexible in their working.

Ive probably gone on too long now but im just trying to educate someone who rants about rail workers but yet knows nothing about what they require to be able to complete their job roles successfully.

Maybe you are just envious of what certain trades can earn on the railways, i don't know, you just come across as very ignorant and your not prepared to educate yourself on something you are ranting about so come across a proper plum.

Maybe next time don't get taken in by tabloid nonsense.

Fancy certificates don't mean something extra, coz I gone got me a NVQ I iz well educated int I. My bin man probably has a health and safety certificate that I couldn't pass, it's not relevant to what I was saying. Fully support a bin man going on strike because he is a "hard working man", "one of the people " etc, as is a teacher, as is a nurse. But sorry rail staff particularly drivers, you simply aren't

You're blocking modernisation, you're protecting unnecessary jobs, and you're in this privileged position thar you want more more more. Like I said,  Royal Mail will be gone soon and then those picket liners with their massive pensions and not having to work sundays will be at amazon wishing they'd never striked. The same can't come soon enough

And no I haven't been rejected for job on the rails  quite happy in my current well paid job that I will not take for granted nor pretend I'm "one of the hard done by just trying to make a living" like those well qualified rail folk

I fully recognise that overpaid luddites is only a part of the problem with our mess of a railway and how its run from the government clowns down. But its a pure embarassement to pay €5 to €20 for a high speed ticket on Europe and then look at what we've got

Any thoughts on the £500m that got paid out to shareholders last year .

John Major has a lot to answer for.

If you could of created a situation that would have the worst possible outcome for national rail in this country then this joker hit the jackpot.

His botched privatisation was always going to create new and more intractable issues down the line from the formation of Railtrack right through to the recent botched handling during the pandemic crisis.

To sell off assets and then manufacture a situation where you need to pay the purchases a subsidy to run the venture is the politics of the madhouse, its become bigger and more onerous on the taxpayer every year to the point where we now have a situation where they have virtually taken back a majority of the franchises and are running them as not for profit companies. Why this could have not been in the original plan i think we all know the answer to that one. The cost to the state over the last 30 years could and should have resulted in massive improvements compared to the small ones we have achieved under this restructuring.

The fact that private companies paid to take on the franchises but with inbuilt clauses that allowed them to offload when the costs became prohibitive resulting in the taxpayer to then have to take the losses again is a national disgrace but goes to show that governments and civil servants will always get the runaround when private investment are allowed to dictate the contract terms. Obviously when it involves shareholders cash then they will always expect to see some sort of return on their investment, just the same as a savings account holder wanting the best interest return he can get on his savings, that's the system and i have no issues with that.

What we desperately need is government with ambition and drive to get to the root of these issues and looking ahead 20 to 390 years and doing what's best for the state, not for their own political sakes.

Until this happens we will always have this stunted and chronic political party self interest to deal with, we need a major reset, we have no one currently with the right attitude to do the right thing.