Article 50

[bobjimwilly]

Not at all - but in both cases the the pros and cons should've been clear, established, agreed upon by a majority of MP's, and put to the electorate in plenty of time before it was put to a vote. Surely you agree that's how these things should be done?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

[NickDRFC]

Brexit is already costing British businesses; it's cost my employer and extra £800 p/a just in Microsoft Office365 fees alone!

For a company of 200 employees who use the same system it will cost them an additional £8000 p/a

Just wondering, why has the cost of a product, produced by a US multinational technology company, cost you more as a result of a Brexit that hasn't yet happened - genuine question?

At a guess, the FX impact.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Brexit is already costing British businesses; it's cost my employer and extra £800 p/a just in Microsoft Office365 fees alone!

For a company of 200 employees who use the same system it will cost them an additional £8000 p/a

Just wondering, why has the cost of a product, produced by a US multinational technology company, cost you more as a result of a Brexit that hasn't yet happened - genuine question?

At a guess, the FX impact.

Drop in the £ against the $?

[Metalmicky]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

I said a Customs Union - rather than the Customs Union - I should have been more clear.  I don't see the EU playing hard ball on Brexit and I feel a compromise agreement will be made so that free trade can continue.  We import more goods from the EU than we export, so they would be cutting of the noses to spite their faces if they chose to be too constrictive...

The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox has said that 10 countries are already lined up to make deals with the UK, including India, China, Japan, Australia and Canada. Chinese President Xi Jinping has been quoted as saying that he is "entirely open to a bilateral trading relationship" and Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with the EU and India have been going on for more than nine years, without agreement. A negotiation with the UK could be relatively easy to complete on a bilateral level.

I don't know (like all of us) if Brexit will mean the UK will prosper; however, negotiating on behalf of one party rather than 28 has to be easier to work through.

[Metalmicky]

Brexit is already costing British businesses; it's cost my employer and extra £800 p/a just in Microsoft Office365 fees alone!

For a company of 200 employees who use the same system it will cost them an additional £8000 p/a

Just wondering, why has the cost of a product, produced by a US multinational technology company, cost you more as a result of a Brexit that hasn't yet happened - genuine question?

At a guess, the FX impact.

Drop in the £ against the $?

OK - fair point

[Glyn_Wigley]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

I said a Customs Union - rather than the Customs Union - I should have been more clear.  I don't see the EU playing hard ball on Brexit and I feel a compromise agreement will be made so that free trade can continue.  We import more goods from the EU than we export, so they would be cutting of the noses to spite their faces if they chose to be too constrictive...

The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox has said that 10 countries are already lined up to make deals with the UK, including India, China, Japan, Australia and Canada. Chinese President Xi Jinping has been quoted as saying that he is "entirely open to a bilateral trading relationship" and Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with the EU and India have been going on for more than nine years, without agreement. A negotiation with the UK could be relatively easy to complete on a bilateral level.

I don't know (like all of us) if Brexit will mean the UK will prosper; however, negotiating on behalf of one party rather than 28 has to be easier to work through.

Even IF there is some sort of different Customs Union (although I have no idea what you consider to be a different form of Custom Union - either you're in one one or you're not), all those costs I've mentioned above will STILL apply. I did say it it was before any Duty and VAT so it applies regardless of Free Trade or not. We are NOT going to be in the Single Market, so Customs Declarations WILL be reimposed for movements between the UK and the EU in both directions. It is not optional, it is going to happen.

[wilts rover]

The EU have already said we can not have the same trade deal outside the EU as we have now as a member. Quite logically as it gives free reign for everone else to leave too - which is the last thing they want. The question is how far are we going to go to agree a deal - Hard or Soft Brexit?

You may remember shortly after becoming PM Teresa May went to India to attempt to agree a deal with Modi. This foundered because what India wanted was greater freedom for Indians to study and work in the UK. So to get that started again we would have to agree to his terms. Effectively swapping EU immigration for Indian immigration - I wonder if people knew that was what they may be voting for?

Difficult things these international deals - you have to give something to the other country that they might want...

[Metalmicky]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

I said a Customs Union - rather than the Customs Union - I should have been more clear.  I don't see the EU playing hard ball on Brexit and I feel a compromise agreement will be made so that free trade can continue.  We import more goods from the EU than we export, so they would be cutting of the noses to spite their faces if they chose to be too constrictive...

The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox has said that 10 countries are already lined up to make deals with the UK, including India, China, Japan, Australia and Canada. Chinese President Xi Jinping has been quoted as saying that he is "entirely open to a bilateral trading relationship" and Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with the EU and India have been going on for more than nine years, without agreement. A negotiation with the UK could be relatively easy to complete on a bilateral level.

I don't know (like all of us) if Brexit will mean the UK will prosper; however, negotiating on behalf of one party rather than 28 has to be easier to work through.

Even IF there is some sort of different Customs Union (although I have no idea what you consider to be a different form of Custom Union - either you're in one one or you're not), all those costs I've mentioned above will STILL apply. I did say it it was before any Duty and VAT so it applies regardless of Free Trade or not. We are NOT going to be in the Single Market, so Customs Declarations WILL be reimposed for movements between the UK and the EU in both directions. It is not optional, it is going to happen.

You do seem to be a very angry man and unable to consider others ideas or possible solutions... until we start negotiating nothing is off the table surely - so you cannot categorically state that all of the above will apply... let's wait and see what transpires.  I'm purely trying to state that there may be ways around the customs issue - especially as it will actually be to the benefit of the EU to agree to this - time will tell eh.....

Disclaimer..... No CAPITALS or bold were required in this comment..... chill chap.

[Metalmicky]

The EU have already said we can not have the same trade deal outside the EU as we have now as a member. Quite logically as it gives free reign for everone else to leave too - which is the last thing they want. The question is how far are we going to go to agree a deal - Hard or Soft Brexit?

You may remember shortly after becoming PM Teresa May went to India to attempt to agree a deal with Modi. This foundered because what India wanted was greater freedom for Indians to study and work in the UK. So to get that started again we would have to agree to his terms. Effectively swapping EU immigration for Indian immigration - I wonder if people knew that was what they may be voting for?

Difficult things these international deals - you have to give something to the other country that they might want...

Although as I stated both of the countries that originally mentioned (China and India) have indicated a willingness to talk and both suggested that an agreement could be reached in good time.  This would be to the benefit of both and a damn sight easier to complete when the negotiating is between only two parties, rather than 29.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

I said a Customs Union - rather than the Customs Union - I should have been more clear.  I don't see the EU playing hard ball on Brexit and I feel a compromise agreement will be made so that free trade can continue.  We import more goods from the EU than we export, so they would be cutting of the noses to spite their faces if they chose to be too constrictive...

The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox has said that 10 countries are already lined up to make deals with the UK, including India, China, Japan, Australia and Canada. Chinese President Xi Jinping has been quoted as saying that he is "entirely open to a bilateral trading relationship" and Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with the EU and India have been going on for more than nine years, without agreement. A negotiation with the UK could be relatively easy to complete on a bilateral level.

I don't know (like all of us) if Brexit will mean the UK will prosper; however, negotiating on behalf of one party rather than 28 has to be easier to work through.

Even IF there is some sort of different Customs Union (although I have no idea what you consider to be a different form of Custom Union - either you're in one one or you're not), all those costs I've mentioned above will STILL apply. I did say it it was before any Duty and VAT so it applies regardless of Free Trade or not. We are NOT going to be in the Single Market, so Customs Declarations WILL be reimposed for movements between the UK and the EU in both directions. It is not optional, it is going to happen.

You do seem to be a very angry man and unable to consider others ideas or possible solutions... until we start negotiating nothing is off the table surely - so you cannot categorically state that all of the above will apply... let's wait and see what transpires.  I'm purely trying to state that there may be ways around the customs issue - especially as it will actually be to the benefit of the EU to agree to this - time will tell eh.....

Disclaimer..... No CAPITALS or bold were required in this comment..... chill chap.

I'm sorry, but yes I do know. International Trade was my job for twenty years. The reimposition of Customs controls will not be negotiable. It won't even be negotiated, so I can categorically state that it is all going to happen if we leave the Single Market.

Even if we go for the Norway solution, we will still have to reintroduce Customs clearances for movements between the UK and the EU because then we'd be in the Customs Union but not in the Fiscal Union.

Of course the EU countries want  no trade barriers, that's why the Single Market was created. We have said we want to leave the Single Market. The cost of that is the reintroduction of Customs borders and bureaucracy, and that is final I'm afraid.

Oh, and I wouldn't say that I'm angry, but continually banging my head against a brick wall trying to explain all this to people who just want to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la it's not going to happen' does tend to make me a tad irritable.

[Dagenham Rover]

Glyn even with you being in international trade as you say you cannot categorically state anything at this point in time about Brexit and nor can anybody else, you may have an idea what you think might happen same as I think I know what might happen. Perhaps it's you that sticks your fingers in your ears and goes  la la la la and won't listen to anything else

Just a thought like 

[wilts rover]

The EU have already said we can not have the same trade deal outside the EU as we have now as a member. Quite logically as it gives free reign for everone else to leave too - which is the last thing they want. The question is how far are we going to go to agree a deal - Hard or Soft Brexit?

You may remember shortly after becoming PM Teresa May went to India to attempt to agree a deal with Modi. This foundered because what India wanted was greater freedom for Indians to study and work in the UK. So to get that started again we would have to agree to his terms. Effectively swapping EU immigration for Indian immigration - I wonder if people knew that was what they may be voting for?

Difficult things these international deals - you have to give something to the other country that they might want...

Although as I stated both of the countries that originally mentioned (China and India) have indicated a willingness to talk and both suggested that an agreement could be reached in good time.  This would be to the benefit of both and a damn sight easier to complete when the negotiating is between only two parties, rather than 29.

Agreed that anything is possible, but wouldn't you think that we would be in a stronger negotiating position with a market of 500 million behind us rather than 60 million. Which would be more attractive to India & China?

What can we offer them - and what would they demand from us? The freedom to dump cheap steel? Unrestricted movement of people.

It may be easier to negotiate - but that doesn't necessarily translate to better or a good deal, we shall just have to wait and see - like errr customs duties...

[Glyn_Wigley]

Glyn even with you being in international trade as you say you cannot categorically state anything at this point in time about Brexit and nor can anybody else, you may have an idea what you think might happen same as I think I know what might happen. Perhaps it's you that sticks your fingers in your ears and goes  la la la la and won't listen to anything else

Just a thought like 

Really? How will the UK collect Duty and VAT (or know that they're exempt) on imports; or exercise export controls without any Customs Declarations? An Honesty Box at the dockside, perhaps?

[Glyn_Wigley]

Here's one question to anyone doubting me.

And bear in mind 'Free Trade' is NOT the same as 'Customs Union'.

Do any of you actually think that any of the mooted trade deals the UK will be free to negotiate post-Brexit (with the USA, China India, etc.) will result in no Customs Declarations being required when importing or exporting to and from those countries?

[Metalmicky]

Going out isn't a problem Bally - its what we are going out too that people are concerned about.

I would guess as an ex-policeman you wouldn't have any problems going out on the beat. But imagine going out without a helmet, handcuffs, baton, radio or any other form of protection or backup.

That is the situation we are faced with now. OK so we are leaving the protection of the largest trading block in the world - what are we going to replace it with?

Surely we are leaving, but not loosing our trading ability - Europe needs to continue trade with us equally, if not more, than we need to continue trading with them.

I see an agreement on a Customs Union to continue the equilibrium in Europe...... In addition the UK would be free to strike up trade deals with other markets. Britain’s links with the EU are holding back its focus on emerging markets – there is no major trade deal with China or India, for example - leaving would allow the UK to diversify.

According to the White Paper debated in Parliament the other day, it sets out leaving the Customs Union. Which is going to make every import and export to/from the EU that the UK has more expensive due to the costs of Customs Clearance, Customs documentation preparation and presentation (you know, that red tape we're supposed to be getting rid of, we're actually going to have a lot more of instead!), demurrage costs, Customs examination costs and accompanying deliverance delays...and all that is before any Customs Duty and VAT that we didn't have to pay before is levied. So of course we're still free to trade with the EU...but trading with the EU won't be free!

As for developing markets, we already have those through the WTO under GSP - including China and India, so you're wrong as they do have a major trade agreement. And no third world country is going to want a brand-new reciprocal free trade agreement with the UK when they've already got a one-way duty free movement agreement in their favour already!

I said a Customs Union - rather than the Customs Union - I should have been more clear.  I don't see the EU playing hard ball on Brexit and I feel a compromise agreement will be made so that free trade can continue.  We import more goods from the EU than we export, so they would be cutting of the noses to spite their faces if they chose to be too constrictive...

The Secretary of State for International Trade, Liam Fox has said that 10 countries are already lined up to make deals with the UK, including India, China, Japan, Australia and Canada. Chinese President Xi Jinping has been quoted as saying that he is "entirely open to a bilateral trading relationship" and Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with the EU and India have been going on for more than nine years, without agreement. A negotiation with the UK could be relatively easy to complete on a bilateral level.

I don't know (like all of us) if Brexit will mean the UK will prosper; however, negotiating on behalf of one party rather than 28 has to be easier to work through.

Even IF there is some sort of different Customs Union (although I have no idea what you consider to be a different form of Custom Union - either you're in one one or you're not), all those costs I've mentioned above will STILL apply. I did say it it was before any Duty and VAT so it applies regardless of Free Trade or not. We are NOT going to be in the Single Market, so Customs Declarations WILL be reimposed for movements between the UK and the EU in both directions. It is not optional, it is going to happen.

You do seem to be a very angry man and unable to consider others ideas or possible solutions... until we start negotiating nothing is off the table surely - so you cannot categorically state that all of the above will apply... let's wait and see what transpires.  I'm purely trying to state that there may be ways around the customs issue - especially as it will actually be to the benefit of the EU to agree to this - time will tell eh.....

Disclaimer..... No CAPITALS or bold were required in this comment..... chill chap.

I'm sorry, but yes I do know. International Trade was my job for twenty years. The reimposition of Customs controls will not be negotiable. It won't even be negotiated, so I can categorically state that it is all going to happen if we leave the Single Market.

Even if we go for the Norway solution, we will still have to reintroduce Customs clearances for movements between the UK and the EU because then we'd be in the Customs Union but not in the Fiscal Union.

Of course the EU countries want  no trade barriers, that's why the Single Market was created. We have said we want to leave the Single Market. The cost of that is the reintroduction of Customs borders and bureaucracy, and that is final I'm afraid.

Oh, and I wouldn't say that I'm angry, but continually banging my head against a brick wall trying to explain all this to people who just want to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'la-la-la-la it's not going to happen' does tend to make me a tad irritable.

Fair play and I accept all you points and (gracefully) bow to your prowess and knowledge in this area. I just believe that there may be another solution somehow - after all what was there before the Norway solution.....?

If Donald Trump can make it to the White House, all things are possible....... IMO

For the record I actually voted to remain, having lived for periods in Germany, The Netherlands and Denmark myself over the last 25 years...

[Metalmicky]

The EU have already said we can not have the same trade deal outside the EU as we have now as a member. Quite logically as it gives free reign for everone else to leave too - which is the last thing they want. The question is how far are we going to go to agree a deal - Hard or Soft Brexit?

You may remember shortly after becoming PM Teresa May went to India to attempt to agree a deal with Modi. This foundered because what India wanted was greater freedom for Indians to study and work in the UK. So to get that started again we would have to agree to his terms. Effectively swapping EU immigration for Indian immigration - I wonder if people knew that was what they may be voting for?

Difficult things these international deals - you have to give something to the other country that they might want...

Although as I stated both of the countries that originally mentioned (China and India) have indicated a willingness to talk and both suggested that an agreement could be reached in good time.  This would be to the benefit of both and a damn sight easier to complete when the negotiating is between only two parties, rather than 29.

Agreed that anything is possible, but wouldn't you think that we would be in a stronger negotiating position with a market of 500 million behind us rather than 60 million. Which would be more attractive to India & China?

What can we offer them - and what would they demand from us? The freedom to dump cheap steel? Unrestricted movement of people.

It may be easier to negotiate - but that doesn't necessarily translate to better or a good deal, we shall just have to wait and see - like errr customs duties...

I see your point, but the opportunity to deal with one nation as opposed to 28 is also more desirable. 

It will depend on what is on the table, what we are prepared to offer and perhaps concede..... only time will tell us...

[ballysbackin]

What nobody has mentioned is.......The goods (trade) that we sell to European Countries, sounds from many on here that we are paupers who cannot fend for themselves and will forever be on our knees begging forgiveness. I wait............................

[Dagenham Rover]

Just something for your perusal Glyn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/theresa-may-faces-fresh-legal-challenge-brexit-david-davis-refuses/


la la la la la la la 

[Glyn_Wigley]

Just something for your perusal Glyn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/02/theresa-may-faces-fresh-legal-challenge-brexit-david-davis-refuses/


la la la la la la la 

Backs up what I've said - Davis confirmed that the White Paper intends to leave the Customs Union, so Customs Declarations will be back. Just as I said - or do you think it says something else?

[Dagenham Rover]

Oh Glyn  la la la la la la la la la   end of

[hoolahoop]

Yup. My major beef about all of this is that for almost every complaint a Leave voter has about the EU, the actual blame or responsibility for the problem (as they see it) lies with our Government(s). Almost every single time.

Which makes me all the more afraid of what lies in store for the future.

That is why I am so mightily pissed of with the way the Media have manipulated our poorer members of society with a tissue of lies and they will pay for it the most.
The politicians on the Remain side nevery allowed for the stupidity and rank xenophobia that many of our people have.

We are indeed still little Englanders shamefully and sadly ....

[hoolahoop]

I just hope the Brexit will not have immediate consequences for me on finding a job there in the next few months.

I hope so too mate.

Yes so do I and just remember,for all the sanctimonious pro EU t**ts posting on here from their high horse only one on here offered you a place to stay(to my knowledge anyway)

Surely it'd be the job of a Brexiteer to do that given the situation is now of their making...how many have done so - is it more than one?

Get over it Glyn, a democratic vote was taken, a decision was made we ll live with it, good or bad, just like America, they got Trump and many are bleating about it, what do people want? Some kind of dictatorship?

No answer then, I take it. Was the decision I have to 'get over' made by people who genuinely believe the EU dictate to businesses who they can trade with?

PS. It feels to me that continually being told to 'get over it' a form of dictatorship in itself. Especially when it's a means of evading giving an answer to a pertinent question..!

" Get over it " - I don't feel the need to get over it either just a certain sadness that my 18 year old won't have quite the freedoms and will live in a farow more uncertain world than me.

" Get over it  " I feel that we've gone " all in " in a poker game without having a clue how much is in the pot and that it's just our money in it . Too many smug people about who will unfortunately suffer medium to long term - I don't get any joy over that but fear a major backlash when folk realise that the problem lies with the spineless representatives of the people and not the EU !

[Filo]

Thats the problem hoola, you in two posts have labelled people poor, stupid and smug for having an opinion, just like many other remain voters. I voted out and can assure you I'm niether of those generalisations

[wilts rover]

Since when has 'get over it' been an opinion Filo?

Stating that Britain will be better out of the EU is an opinion - and giving some facts to back this up makes it a valid and debatable one - but 'get over it', I'm with Hoola on this one.

[idler]

Not all Brexiters are racists,stupid or xenophobic.
In our time in the EU we have seen the demise of our fishing industry. The mining,steel and engineering industries have gone. We no longer have a British car industry just plants producing foreign models.
BT and the GPO privatised along with the power and water industries and again foreign ownership. We have seen reductions in the numbers of police, firemen and the armed forces. There are a lot of people amongst those that have seen their future and pensions destroyed. Maybe some felt that their only chance to be heard was to show their frustration by voting out. There were many very well educated people also advocating leaving.

[Filo]

Since when has 'get over it' been an opinion Filo?

Stating that Britain will be better out of the EU is an opinion - and giving some facts to back this up makes it a valid and debatable one - but 'get over it', I'm with Hoola on this one.

You're not daft Wilts, you know that you've used that phrase out of context, but for clarity, having an opinion in the way I used it means voting against the person offering the insults. I for one voted to leave but fully expected the remain to win, but one thing is for sure, if remain had won I would n't have been bleating every 5 minutes, I'd have accepted it and moved on without stamping my feat and insulting people that voted the opposite way

[ballysbackin]

We have people on here falling out and getting hot under the collar, we had our vote some one way and some the other.. It does not matter one little bit what anyone on here says because the politicians are dealing, yesterday a court stopped a further challenge, because everybody has had enough.. The tabloids and respective reporters with their own view are stirring it just to sell newspapers . I know this thread is Off Topic but believe me it is similar to every other part of the Country - The Scots have been finally told. "No second Independence Referendum for you" I agree it has got nasty but it does not matter what anybody says. The lies were told, the fabrications were told the reasons were made for the case by both leave and remain... It really is not worth getting upset. I have had my fall outs on this site with people, but there is always someone worse off than the people of the U.K. who squabble over a vote.. We go out it causes argument and we stay in and it causes argument..Here is one for you.. " is it worth it"

[i_ateallthepies]

Not all Brexiters are racists,stupid or xenophobic.
In our time in the EU we have seen the demise of our fishing industry. The mining,steel and engineering industries have gone. We no longer have a British car industry just plants producing foreign models.
BT and the GPO privatised along with the power and water industries and again foreign ownership. We have seen reductions in the numbers of police, firemen and the armed forces. There are a lot of people amongst those that have seen their future and pensions destroyed. Maybe some felt that their only chance to be heard was to show their frustration by voting out. There were many very well educated people also advocating leaving.

Just about all of those retrograde steps you have listed there Idler were entirely the doing of UK governments, nothing to do with the EU.  Which probably explains why those who wanted to remain are so pissed off at the total nonsense spoken about regaining British sovereignty.

[Lipsy]

Absolutely that. In spades. "We" have voted to make the poor poorer and the rich richer. And I tire of hearing people blame the EU for things that our Government(s) are to blame for. I don't want to get into name calling, but the amount of ignorant, stupid, and just plain daft claims from some Leave voters is incredibly frustrating. We had that dopey banana bint on BBCQT this week, and a friend of mine told me this week that he voted Leave because he thought Remain would win, but he was hoping the EU would change its way, and even if Leave won the EU would come back to us with a new offer and we'd stay.... The mind boggles. I am sure all you Leave voters on here totally understood all the implications of leaving the EU and voted in good conscience, etc. But I can tell you that 95% of all my conversations with Leave voters have left me worried about the state of this country and how stupid and/or manipulated by fake news people are.