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Quote from: SydneyRover on May 09, 2021, 12:05:12 pmDid you get your mum to help you with the answer, it took you long enough?You really are an obnoxious person SR.I have other things to do, probably unlike yourself.You have suggested that I don’t know where Hadrian’s Wall is just start an argument when clearly my post didn’t suggest anything like that.Also, for your information, my mother is dead so please don’t be a prat by bringing her into your imaginary world.Half a World away.
Did you get your mum to help you with the answer, it took you long enough?
Quote from: drfchound on May 09, 2021, 12:58:23 pmQuote from: SydneyRover on May 09, 2021, 12:05:12 pmDid you get your mum to help you with the answer, it took you long enough?You really are an obnoxious person SR.I have other things to do, probably unlike yourself.You have suggested that I don’t know where Hadrian’s Wall is just start an argument when clearly my post didn’t suggest anything like that.Also, for your information, my mother is dead so please don’t be a prat by bringing her into your imaginary world.Half a World away.No offence at all meant hound, but credit where it's due hound, how you manage to keep your little feuds going across the forum/s is amazing
It’s very unlikely to repeat because, generally, people accept these democratic decisions.I honestly don’t know the answer to this question: when was the last referendum for Scotland to leave? And the one before that?You say it is very unlikely to repeat, but what if they lose again? What happens when the next 10 years of people die and children become adults? And the next? And the next?In answer to your question, there should be a very significant period of acceptance before it is even considered again. Impossible to put a year on it, but I think if it is to happen again, none of us should know anything about it.
Quote from: belton rover on May 09, 2021, 06:45:55 pmIt’s very unlikely to repeat because, generally, people accept these democratic decisions.I honestly don’t know the answer to this question: when was the last referendum for Scotland to leave? And the one before that?You say it is very unlikely to repeat, but what if they lose again? What happens when the next 10 years of people die and children become adults? And the next? And the next?In answer to your question, there should be a very significant period of acceptance before it is even considered again. Impossible to put a year on it, but I think if it is to happen again, none of us should know anything about it.Some interesting points there Belton.If it is right to allow referendum after referendum because of the rights of young people who didn’t vote because they were too young to do so at the last vote then I guess we should be thinking about another Brexit referendum in five or six years time.
I think that Brexit has thrown a hand grenade into the independence issue. Brexit means that free and easy movements and relationship with England, Northern Ireland and Wales would be greatly impacted - especially if the EU get involved in deciding the border relationships .... and the Barnier bandwagon moves in to decide the protocols required.Scotland would end up being faced with the same kinds of choice that faced the UK in Brexit. Would an independent Scotland have a hard or soft border with England? - in essence a second land border between the UK and the EU.... and we all know how smoothly the other border issue has gone. What would the EU demand from the Scots regarding their border? Will cars and trains need to stop en route for passport checks? - will lorry drivers have their ham sandwiches confiscated? And who decides all this – Barnier and Brussels or Sturgeon and Scotland? It could be very messy and the flow of goods north and south would be inevitably be slowed and probably add costs...... are the Scottish public OK with this?This is without starting on the Euro or £ issue - and that may prove even harder to navigate through.
Quote from: Metalmicky on May 10, 2021, 11:41:07 amI think that Brexit has thrown a hand grenade into the independence issue. Brexit means that free and easy movements and relationship with England, Northern Ireland and Wales would be greatly impacted - especially if the EU get involved in deciding the border relationships .... and the Barnier bandwagon moves in to decide the protocols required.Scotland would end up being faced with the same kinds of choice that faced the UK in Brexit. Would an independent Scotland have a hard or soft border with England? - in essence a second land border between the UK and the EU.... and we all know how smoothly the other border issue has gone. What would the EU demand from the Scots regarding their border? Will cars and trains need to stop en route for passport checks? - will lorry drivers have their ham sandwiches confiscated? And who decides all this – Barnier and Brussels or Sturgeon and Scotland? It could be very messy and the flow of goods north and south would be inevitably be slowed and probably add costs...... are the Scottish public OK with this?This is without starting on the Euro or £ issue - and that may prove even harder to navigate through. Freedom of movement is already covered by the Common Travel Area which provides the absolute right for people anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to travel, live and work anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This agreement predates, and is not in any way impacted by, Brexit it also provides the added benefits for all people to enjoy associated rights and privileges, including voting in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services of those areas the choose to visit or live. It has nothing to do with the EU in any way, shape or form! The CTA was reaffirmed in 2019 by the governments of the UK and the ROI. Not something you'll read in the right wing media. I wonder why?
Quote from: Not Now Kato on May 10, 2021, 12:09:06 pmQuote from: Metalmicky on May 10, 2021, 11:41:07 amI think that Brexit has thrown a hand grenade into the independence issue. Brexit means that free and easy movements and relationship with England, Northern Ireland and Wales would be greatly impacted - especially if the EU get involved in deciding the border relationships .... and the Barnier bandwagon moves in to decide the protocols required.Scotland would end up being faced with the same kinds of choice that faced the UK in Brexit. Would an independent Scotland have a hard or soft border with England? - in essence a second land border between the UK and the EU.... and we all know how smoothly the other border issue has gone. What would the EU demand from the Scots regarding their border? Will cars and trains need to stop en route for passport checks? - will lorry drivers have their ham sandwiches confiscated? And who decides all this – Barnier and Brussels or Sturgeon and Scotland? It could be very messy and the flow of goods north and south would be inevitably be slowed and probably add costs...... are the Scottish public OK with this?This is without starting on the Euro or £ issue - and that may prove even harder to navigate through. Freedom of movement is already covered by the Common Travel Area which provides the absolute right for people anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to travel, live and work anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This agreement predates, and is not in any way impacted by, Brexit it also provides the added benefits for all people to enjoy associated rights and privileges, including voting in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services of those areas the choose to visit or live. It has nothing to do with the EU in any way, shape or form! The CTA was reaffirmed in 2019 by the governments of the UK and the ROI. Not something you'll read in the right wing media. I wonder why?Didn't realise that NNK - I assume that doesn't cover lorries/vans/trade vehicles though...?
Quote from: Not Now Kato on May 10, 2021, 12:09:06 pmQuote from: Metalmicky on May 10, 2021, 11:41:07 amI think that Brexit has thrown a hand grenade into the independence issue. Brexit means that free and easy movements and relationship with England, Northern Ireland and Wales would be greatly impacted - especially if the EU get involved in deciding the border relationships .... and the Barnier bandwagon moves in to decide the protocols required.Scotland would end up being faced with the same kinds of choice that faced the UK in Brexit. Would an independent Scotland have a hard or soft border with England? - in essence a second land border between the UK and the EU.... and we all know how smoothly the other border issue has gone. What would the EU demand from the Scots regarding their border? Will cars and trains need to stop en route for passport checks? - will lorry drivers have their ham sandwiches confiscated? And who decides all this – Barnier and Brussels or Sturgeon and Scotland? It could be very messy and the flow of goods north and south would be inevitably be slowed and probably add costs...... are the Scottish public OK with this?This is without starting on the Euro or £ issue - and that may prove even harder to navigate through. Freedom of movement is already covered by the Common Travel Area which provides the absolute right for people anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to travel, live and work anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This agreement predates, and is not in any way impacted by, Brexit it also provides the added benefits for all people to enjoy associated rights and privileges, including voting in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services of those areas the choose to visit or live. It has nothing to do with the EU in any way, shape or form! The CTA was reaffirmed in 2019 by the governments of the UK and the ROI. Not something you'll read in the right wing media. I wonder why?Once the two areas are working to different standards there would have to be border checks though. For instance, if England allowed hormone injected cattle, the EU would need to check for that at the border with Scotland wouldn't they?
Quote from: Metalmicky on May 10, 2021, 12:25:34 pmQuote from: Not Now Kato on May 10, 2021, 12:09:06 pmQuote from: Metalmicky on May 10, 2021, 11:41:07 amI think that Brexit has thrown a hand grenade into the independence issue. Brexit means that free and easy movements and relationship with England, Northern Ireland and Wales would be greatly impacted - especially if the EU get involved in deciding the border relationships .... and the Barnier bandwagon moves in to decide the protocols required.Scotland would end up being faced with the same kinds of choice that faced the UK in Brexit. Would an independent Scotland have a hard or soft border with England? - in essence a second land border between the UK and the EU.... and we all know how smoothly the other border issue has gone. What would the EU demand from the Scots regarding their border? Will cars and trains need to stop en route for passport checks? - will lorry drivers have their ham sandwiches confiscated? And who decides all this – Barnier and Brussels or Sturgeon and Scotland? It could be very messy and the flow of goods north and south would be inevitably be slowed and probably add costs...... are the Scottish public OK with this?This is without starting on the Euro or £ issue - and that may prove even harder to navigate through. Freedom of movement is already covered by the Common Travel Area which provides the absolute right for people anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland to travel, live and work anywhere in England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland. This agreement predates, and is not in any way impacted by, Brexit it also provides the added benefits for all people to enjoy associated rights and privileges, including voting in certain elections, as well as to access social welfare benefits and health services of those areas the choose to visit or live. It has nothing to do with the EU in any way, shape or form! The CTA was reaffirmed in 2019 by the governments of the UK and the ROI. Not something you'll read in the right wing media. I wonder why?Didn't realise that NNK - I assume that doesn't cover lorries/vans/trade vehicles though...? It does only covers people MM. If Scotland gained independence AND joined the EU then Goods would be subject to the same cross border checks as they are between any third country, (which the UK is), and the EU. However, if Scotland gained independence but did not become a member of the EU then border control for the movement of goods would be something that the UK and Scottish would have to negotiate and agree on. Here's a link to the CTA.... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/common-travel-area-guidance
I think a lot of Scots would vote for independence if EU membership was guaranteed, but that's only my opinion. So the process and time lines would need to be drawn up and of course a probability scale of being accepted.
The irony of the Indyref case is that the SNP will trot out PRECISELY the lies that the Leave side pedalled in 2016. They will say that you can have a trade border between Scotland and the rest of the UK without affecting the Scottish economy. They will appeal to nationalist gut feeling and encourage people to reject expert analysis. And they will say that anyone who suggests Scotland cannot thrive outside its current trading relationship with its much bigger neighbour is belittling the ability and spirit of the Scots.A bunch of shysters they are. Prepared to lie to their people about the costs of independence to sate their quasi-religious determination for a faux freedom.
pros and cons ........ independencehttps://www.schule-bw.de/faecher-und-schularten/sprachen-und-literatur/englisch/unterrichtsmaterialien-nach-kompetenzen/sprechen/kommunikationspruefung/themen/scottishindependence-1.pdf