Coronavirus

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I thought that the WHO were saying that vaccines should be donated to poorer countries to speed up their resilience, instead of vaxxing everyone in the west.

That is a perfectly reasonable position, but if we are NOT doing that, then we are talking about how we give priority at home.

I have not seen what Semple said, but it could relate to this, or refer to priority if there is a supply shortage.

I do not remember seeing this as a recommendation from the whole group, in the Sage minutes.
There are often a variety of opinions within such a group, the overall position is the consensus.

From WHO’s chief scientist

Dr Soumya Swaminathan

So the reason that today, WHO is saying that vaccinating children is not a priority is because children, though they can get infected with Covid-19 and they can transmit the infection to others, they are at much lower risk of getting severe disease compared to older adults. And that is why when we started prioritizing people who should get the vaccination when there are limited supplies of vaccines available in the country, we recommend that we start with health care workers and frontline workers who are at very high risk of exposure to the infection.

Also, elderly, the people who have underlying illnesses that make them at high risk to develop severe disease and start with those groups, protect them first, because we want to reduce the death rates that we are seeing today globally and then gradually come down age-wise in the population till we get to children. And again, while there may be some children who are at higher risk of getting the severe disease because of some underlying illnesses or vulnerabilities or comorbidities, those children potentially could be prioritised for vaccines when they become available.

But children as a group form a much lower priority group. 

Thanks for that, Dickos, it backs up what I thought they meant.

As the UK are not passing on vaccines to the developing world in large amounts at present, it still leaves the question of how the UK should allocate resources inside the country.

What do you reckon...who should get it next?

This is my point to add on that. Are we not better off giving the vaccines to the vulnerable across the world than 12 year olds in this country?

[DonnyOsmond]

Valance didn't miss-speak. Here's his explanation of 60% double jabbed in hospital.

Why the f**k would he then correct himself on twitter?

https://twitter.com/AlgorithmBeat/status/1417179789320986625?s=19

He either miss spoke or was provided the wrong information initially then corrected what he said later on. Let's not turn it into a conspiracy.

[Metalmicky]

Valance didn't miss-speak. Here's his explanation of 60% double jabbed in hospital.

Why the f**k would he then correct himself on twitter?

https://twitter.com/AlgorithmBeat/status/1417179789320986625?s=19

He either miss spoke or was provided the wrong information initially then corrected what he said later on. Let's not turn it into a conspiracy.

I thought that was the whole purpose of the Off Topic section.......

[drfchound]

Cummings is firing off again.

Says he has text messages from last October with Johnson saying lockdowns don't work, only over 80s were dying, he didn't buy the over-stretched NHS line, economy comes first etc. No10 been asked for a response and haven't denied any of it.

And the really explosive one. Cummings claims Johnson was on the verge of going to see the Queen on 18 March last year at a time that loads of Downing Street staff had COVID. Cummings says he had to stop Johnson from going. No10 denies it but Kuenssberg reckons other Johnson advisers have confirmed it happened.

Watch this space.

Forgive me, but what the actual f**k is explosive about that? Yet another nothing to see here story

Is that the words of the Cummings who is a compulsive liar.
And now suddenly Kuensberg is the good reporter after apparently being shite for the last few years.

[SydneyRover]

It's fairly obvious you can't trust everything he says hound and there are not too many doing that, but if he supports it with texts and emails it's hard to dismiss.

[Metalmicky]

IMO Cummings is acting like a petulant kid who has been told to go to bed.  He was finally shown the door in November - when he probably should have lost it after his jolly to Durham 6 months earlier.  I have no doubt that some of what he says has some truth in it; however, his credibility and relevance have been lost on most, and I for one don't think the media should be giving him air-time...  They will of course continue to do so, as long as there is an 'exclusive' story to tell. 
 

[dickos1]

I thought that the WHO were saying that vaccines should be donated to poorer countries to speed up their resilience, instead of vaxxing everyone in the west.

That is a perfectly reasonable position, but if we are NOT doing that, then we are talking about how we give priority at home.

I have not seen what Semple said, but it could relate to this, or refer to priority if there is a supply shortage.

I do not remember seeing this as a recommendation from the whole group, in the Sage minutes.
There are often a variety of opinions within such a group, the overall position is the consensus.

From WHO’s chief scientist

Dr Soumya Swaminathan

So the reason that today, WHO is saying that vaccinating children is not a priority is because children, though they can get infected with Covid-19 and they can transmit the infection to others, they are at much lower risk of getting severe disease compared to older adults. And that is why when we started prioritizing people who should get the vaccination when there are limited supplies of vaccines available in the country, we recommend that we start with health care workers and frontline workers who are at very high risk of exposure to the infection.

Also, elderly, the people who have underlying illnesses that make them at high risk to develop severe disease and start with those groups, protect them first, because we want to reduce the death rates that we are seeing today globally and then gradually come down age-wise in the population till we get to children. And again, while there may be some children who are at higher risk of getting the severe disease because of some underlying illnesses or vulnerabilities or comorbidities, those children potentially could be prioritised for vaccines when they become available.

But children as a group form a much lower priority group. 

Thanks for that, Dickos, it backs up what I thought they meant.

As the UK are not passing on vaccines to the developing world in large amounts at present, it still leaves the question of how the UK should allocate resources inside the country.

What do you reckon...who should get it next?

Sorry albie but she doesn’t mention at all passing on the vaccines to the developing world instead.
She is speaking about making sure the more vulnerable are fully vacccined first.
Which is the point our government have also made,

[SydneyRover]

There has been discussion about mental health problems associated with the virus but maybe not for those at the coalface suffering fatigue etc, the doctors, nurses and everyone else that have been flat out for too long, covering for those that are ill. Will all/most of these people be able to remain at their posts if there is another wave?

There are some personal accounts here

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/20/the-hospitals-are-very-near-to-not-coping-uk-health-workers-speak-out

[dickos1]

Cummings is an embarrassment,
Imagine his family and friends seeing him behaving like this.
I’m deeply embarrassed for him and I don’t know him

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Sydney you could apply that to everybody accross society in different ways and it's a powerful argument for the reopenings we have seen.

It was interesting watching an interview with a leading professor on this last night about long covid. He was talking about how long covid is hard to pinpoint as there are so many variables involved. IE, are people tired because of normal life anyway, the psychological stresses etc. Essentially that a lot of it is more mental than physical.  That's an interesting thing.

[BillyStubbsTears]

That "leading professor" is Robert Dingwall. He has no qualifications in medicine, immunology or epidemiology. He, and several signatoried of the Great Barrington Declaration wrote to the Govt in May demanding an early end to this lockdown.  He has been against lockdowns and social distancing throughout.

He wrote last week that the current wave was "mild illness".

God knows why the BBC put these people up without explanation.

[Ldr]

Suspect it’s because they make waves and headlines BST. The BBC is long past being the respected news authority it was when we were young.

[drfchound]

The other thing is that there are lots of people who aren’t qualified in medicine, immunology and epidemiology that offer “expert” opinions and they sometimes offer an opposing view.
People just don’t know who to believe.

[Herbert Anchovy]

A neighbour of mine has Covid at the moment. He’s been double jabbed and reckons he caught it while out shopping last week. I was chatting to him this morning and he said his symptoms were like a very mild flu. However, he’s sure that if he’d not had the vaccine he’d be feeling much, much worse.

[Herbert Anchovy]

That "leading professor" is Robert Dingwall. He has no qualifications in medicine, immunology or epidemiology. He, and several signatoried of the Great Barrington Declaration wrote to the Govt in May demanding an early end to this lockdown.  He has been against lockdowns and social distancing throughout.

He wrote last week that the current wave was "mild illness".

God knows why the BBC put these people up without explanation.

It’s the legacy of 24 hour rolling news. They have so much telly to fill they’ll roll out any boob with an opinion to fill in some time.

[Ldr]

A neighbour of mine has Covid at the moment. He’s been double jabbed and reckons he caught it while out shopping last week. I was chatting to him this morning and he said his symptoms were like a very mild flu. However, he’s sure that if he’d not had the vaccine he’d be feeling much, much worse.

Surely that’s the point, no vaccine can ever stop you catching something, just prepares your immune system to fight it faster when it does enter your system

[BillyStubbsTears]

That "leading professor" is Robert Dingwall. He has no qualifications in medicine, immunology or epidemiology. He, and several signatoried of the Great Barrington Declaration wrote to the Govt in May demanding an early end to this lockdown.  He has been against lockdowns and social distancing throughout.

He wrote last week that the current wave was "mild illness".

God knows why the BBC put these people up without explanation.

It’s the legacy of 24 hour rolling news. They have so much telly to fill they’ll roll out any boob with an opinion to fill in some time.

But we are talking about the flagship BBC news analysis programme, Newsnight. What they did was to put up someone who is at the very extreme libertarian end of opinion about how we should deal with COVID, and given the impression that he is mainstream scientific opinion. It is just appalling editorial standards.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Cummings is an embarrassment,
Imagine his family and friends seeing him behaving like this.
I’m deeply embarrassed for him and I don’t know him

I think he is a deeply unpleasant, egotistical t**t who should never have got near Govt and who should have been drummed out the moment he broke the lockdown rules.

None of that has any bearing on what we are talking about here. In a functioning democracy, if there are factual records supporting his claims (and for all that I think Kuenssberg is a second rate journalist, she says there are and she has seen them and I cannot understand why she would lie about that) Johnson would be out of office this very week. But we are totally through the looking glass these days.

[Herbert Anchovy]

A neighbour of mine has Covid at the moment. He’s been double jabbed and reckons he caught it while out shopping last week. I was chatting to him this morning and he said his symptoms were like a very mild flu. However, he’s sure that if he’d not had the vaccine he’d be feeling much, much worse.

Surely that’s the point, no vaccine can ever stop you catching something, just prepares your immune system to fight it faster when it does enter your system

Yes, you’re right. I agree.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

That "leading professor" is Robert Dingwall. He has no qualifications in medicine, immunology or epidemiology. He, and several signatoried of the Great Barrington Declaration wrote to the Govt in May demanding an early end to this lockdown.  He has been against lockdowns and social distancing throughout.

He wrote last week that the current wave was "mild illness".

God knows why the BBC put these people up without explanation.

It’s the legacy of 24 hour rolling news. They have so much telly to fill they’ll roll out any boob with an opinion to fill in some time.

But we are talking about the flagship BBC news analysis programme, Newsnight. What they did was to put up someone who is at the very extreme libertarian end of opinion about how we should deal with COVID, and given the impression that he is mainstream scientific opinion. It is just appalling editorial standards.

His points on long covid may well be correct though, as yet there is minimal physical evidence for it and it is a fair point that there is an element of incorrectly labelling cause and effect.  Almost similar to those dying of covid when they in fact died because of other means.

We should have those alternate views but yes I agree it should be clear to the viewer else how can the media be trusted.  Just like independent sage who have a name implying they are non political when that is far from the case.

[dickos1]

Cummings is an embarrassment,
Imagine his family and friends seeing him behaving like this.
I’m deeply embarrassed for him and I don’t know him

I think he is a deeply unpleasant, egotistical t**t who should never have got near Govt and who should have been drummed out the moment he broke the lockdown rules.

None of that has any bearing on what we are talking about here. In a functioning democracy, if there are factual records supporting his claims (and for all that I think Kuenssberg is a second rate journalist, she says there are and she has seen them and I cannot understand why she would lie about that) Johnson would be out of office this very week. But we are totally through the looking glass these days.

I’m not saying she is, but it’s not too difficult to understand why she may be lying about it. She’s a horrible journalist, can’t stand her or rigby

[normal rules]

Ah, the female devil incarnate Kuenssberg. Utterly despise the woman.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Cummings is an embarrassment,
Imagine his family and friends seeing him behaving like this.
I’m deeply embarrassed for him and I don’t know him

I think he is a deeply unpleasant, egotistical t**t who should never have got near Govt and who should have been drummed out the moment he broke the lockdown rules.

None of that has any bearing on what we are talking about here. In a functioning democracy, if there are factual records supporting his claims (and for all that I think Kuenssberg is a second rate journalist, she says there are and she has seen them and I cannot understand why she would lie about that) Johnson would be out of office this very week. But we are totally through the looking glass these days.

I’m not saying she is, but it’s not too difficult to understand why she may be lying about it. She’s a horrible journalist, can’t stand her or rigby

I think Kuenssberg is a poor quality journalist, in terms of her ability to present nuanced analysis. For example, last year she was just dumbly repeating the Tory mantra of maxing out the nation's credit card on govt spending, which is kindergarten level economics.

But (outside a few truly unprincipled t**ts like...well like Johnson for example when he was a journalist who got sacked for making up a story) very, very few journalists deliberately lie about matters of objective fact. If you and others really think that is widespread, then we are in a very bad place.

[bpoolrover]

From what I have read and seen he has provided little to none important evidence even to the bbc at the minute, so only time will tell

[ravenrover]

Cummings is firing off again.

Says he has text messages from last October with Johnson saying lockdowns don't work, only over 80s were dying, he didn't buy the over-stretched NHS line, economy comes first etc. No10 been asked for a response and haven't denied any of it.

And the really explosive one. Cummings claims Johnson was on the verge of going to see the Queen on 18 March last year at a time that loads of Downing Street staff had COVID. Cummings says he had to stop Johnson from going. No10 denies it but Kuenssberg reckons other Johnson advisers have confirmed it happened.

Watch this space.

Forgive me, but what the actual f**k is explosive about that? Yet another nothing to see here story

Is that the words of the Cummings who is a compulsive liar.
And now suddenly Kuensberg is the good reporter after apparently being shite for the last few years.

Who do you think was Kuensburgs inside informer when her and Peston were getting all the leaks from their source at No10?

[albie]

"Sorry albie but she doesn’t mention at all passing on the vaccines to the developing world instead.
She is speaking about making sure the more vulnerable are fully vacccined first.
Which is the point our government have also made",

Dickos,

The WHO is concerned with the overall situation, across the world.
They are not talking specifically about the UK, but about the international dimension.

Equity of access is core to the message they have been setting out across the pandemic;
https://youtu.be/dDVDMQvpH2Q
This is the background to the quote you posted. 

Now the UK is NOT distributing vaccines to developing countries in large amounts at the moment, so how do we prioritise at home. All the older groups have been offered, and we still have to mop up significant numbers in the under 30's.

What people have suggested is focus on the adolescents after that, not because they have a high death risk, but to drive down infection rates from that route of transmission.
Here is Mike Ryan of the WHO talking about it;
https://youtu.be/y0qZPzTI0m0

I hope that is useful.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yes of course Kuenssberg was used by Cummings to direct the news agenda when he was in No10.

And yes of course he is using that relationship with her now to get his story out.

That doesn't automatically mean that his story is wrong or untruthful.

The point about Kuenssberg's weakness as a journalist is that she's tended to rely exclusively on these relationships, and often doesn't give the nuanced analysis that a story really needs. But this isn't about nuanced analysis. It's about the basic facts of what the PM said and did at crucial moments in the development of the appalling second wave.

And like I said last night, the key part of this that no-one is talking about in here is this. No10 have not contradicted any of the direct accusations that Cummings has made about what the PM said and did in October last year. Not one of them. and they are such brutally dangerous accusations to leave on the record that I cannot begin to imagine a senior politician's team allowing them to stand if they were lies.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

I guess there is a question as to how much internal conversation is both relevant and needs to be outed.  Is it not right that privately these discussions are had whether we like them or not and shouldn't they be judged solely on the final actions taken not what was discussed?

[belton rover]

Billy. If Cummings joined the Flat Earth Society, married David Icke and went on a mudering spree, you’d say ‘yes but what has any of that got to do with the bitter shit stirring regarding Johnson and his government? He should be respected and commended’.

[dickos1]

"Sorry albie but she doesn’t mention at all passing on the vaccines to the developing world instead.
She is speaking about making sure the more vulnerable are fully vacccined first.
Which is the point our government have also made",

Dickos,

The WHO is concerned with the overall situation, across the world.
They are not talking specifically about the UK, but about the international dimension.

Equity of access is core to the message they have been setting out across the pandemic;
https://youtu.be/dDVDMQvpH2Q
This is the background to the quote you posted. 

Now the UK is NOT distributing vaccines to developing countries in large amounts at the moment, so how do we prioritise at home. All the older groups have been offered, and we still have to mop up significant numbers in the under 30's.

What people have suggested is focus on the adolescents after that, not because they have a high death risk, but to drive down infection rates from that route of transmission.
Here is Mike Ryan of the WHO talking about it;
https://youtu.be/y0qZPzTI0m0

I hope that is useful.

Of course, yes I know they’re not talking about the U.K. but it’s been mentioned on here frequently that other nations are vaccinating minors so why aren’t we.
I honestly couldn’t care less what the USA are doing or what Germany are doing or what Australia are doing.
I think the message was clear from the WHO, that we should be concentrating on all our adults becoming fully vaccinated at the moment. Once that’s done then we think about the children.
I think she explained it perfectly.