Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: Gartom on January 23, 2012, 06:00:47 pm
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John just called to say he is on Football Heaven tonight. He would like Rovers fans support tonight - as he is on the warpath re the poor ref decision against Copps, the lack of quality refs we have had to endure for a long time and the need to voice our discontent yet again.
As that man says at the Keepmoat...c'mon make some noise ! ......
Never heard JR so agitated- but I was at the match and he has a point !
Cheers and thanks for your support,
Gareth
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John just called to say he is on Football Heaven tonight. He would like Rovers fans support tonight - as he is on the warpath re the poor ref decision against Copps, the lack of quality refs we have had to endure for a long time and the need to voice our discontent yet again.
As that man says at the Keepmoat...c'mon make some noise ! ......
Never heard JR so agitated- but I was at the match and he has a point !
Cheers and thanks for your support,
Gareth
Waaaa waaaa waaaa. Everyone is against us. :cry:
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John just called to say he is on Football Heaven tonight. He would like Rovers fans support tonight - as he is on the warpath re the poor ref decision against Copps, the lack of quality refs we have had to endure for a long time and the need to voice our discontent yet again.
As that man says at the Keepmoat...c'mon make some noise ! ......
Never heard JR so agitated- but I was at the match and he has a point !
Cheers and thanks for your support,
Gareth
Could you ask him to leave the legal action to a minimum...
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Make ourselves look bitter and stupid each and every time we go on there bitching about poor decisions and adopting a 'world is against us/ woe is me' attitude.
Just drop it, the ranting and raving is going to do us no favours whatsoever.
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One of the real issues I have with complaining about refereeing decisions on this occasion is that we lost the game because we were unable to defend anything coming in from the wings, nothing to do with the referee. Would we of got anything out of the game had it of been 10 v 10 probably not. Will Copps been out for the rest of the season cost us a place in the league? Debatable but again probably not. If we could concentrate on the next match and not the last I think it would stand us in better steed
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Copps will be a big loss for us and we missed him when he went off. Even when he is not on song he still puts a shift in up and down the pitch.
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John just called to say he is on Football Heaven tonight. He would like Rovers fans support tonight - as he is on the warpath re the poor ref decision against Copps, the lack of quality refs we have had to endure for a long time and the need to voice our discontent yet again.
As that man says at the Keepmoat...c'mon make some noise ! ......
Never heard JR so agitated- but I was at the match and he has a point !
Cheers and thanks for your support,
Gareth
We've been complaining about bad referees for several years now- and has it got us anywhere? No.
Maybe we should take a different tack.
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Complaining about our poor full backs would be more useful.....
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Where is Ilunga when we want someone to blame?
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Ok, I will pass on your thoughts.....and thanks for your views....I just wanted you all to know his ideas, his stance and his actions tonight.
I think he has a point in that we've had some rough decisions over the past few seasons...and I'm not sure they have 'balanced themselves out' on the games I've seen. The Rovers fans on Saturday were not happy at the lack of action from the ref...and you have to admit it happens all too often.
Anyway, tomorrow is another day....lets see what the FA / FL make of it!
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Where is Ilunga when we want someone to blame?
He wasn't playing obviously....but it's not ok to suggest OConnor is pants.
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Complaining about our poor full backs would be more useful.....
I blame the best player to ever where a Rovers shirt leaving Spurr 2 on 1 all game.
Would have been 6 or 7 if Illunga was playing going for his usual Sunday morning stroll style of play.
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Where is Ilunga when we want someone to blame?
He wasn't playing obviously....but it's not ok to suggest OConnor is pants.
No because he isn't a Dean Saunders signing is he.
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Ok, I will pass on your thoughts.....and thanks for your views....I just wanted you all to know his ideas, his stance and his actions tonight.
I think he has a point in that we've had some rough decisions over the past few seasons...and I'm not sure they have 'balanced themselves out' on the games I've seen. The Rovers fans on Saturday were not happy at the lack of action from the ref...and you have to admit it happens all too often.
Anyway, tomorrow is another day....lets see what the FA / FL make of it!
We don't want to shoot the messenger. :)
Please tell him that going down this route is a crock of shit.
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Complaining about our poor full backs would be more useful.....
I blame the best player to ever where a Rovers shirt leaving Spurr 2 on 1 all game.
Would have been 6 or 7 if Illunga was playing going for his usual Sunday morning stroll style of play.
I bet you were livid when Diouf scored.....
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So what was said then? Being as Football Heaven was 18.00 - 19.00.
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Diouf left spurr all game and an unfit spurr against adomah was really harsh on him without any protection from the winger. As for JOC don't see what he did wrong in the game (neither do you benaldo because you wern't there) linked up well with copps and gillett until he went off
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Where is Ilunga when we want someone to blame?
He wasn't playing obviously....but it's not ok to suggest OConnor is pants.
Should we not be blaming Sam Hird?
:scarf:
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I agree with JR we`ve had some pretty harsh decisions against us for months now, with not an inkling of them evening themselves out, not sure moaning about them is going to help our cause though, it`s probably more likely to turn officials against us. A referee assessment panel should be set up to assess referee`s and issue bans to referees for bad performances
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I think J.R have could have a lawsuit against him if he is not careful
what he is saying
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Just a thought if JR is on the warpath about the poor refereeing decision for the Copps challenge and the Beye red card - why can we not use video evidence to get their player charged and the red card recinded? Or does that only apply to the Premier league. The game was video'd so it must show the incident.
:scarf:
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JR has a point the referees need to be made accountable for their actions, what will it achieve though?
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JR has a point the referees need to be made accountable for their actions, what will it achieve though?
Don't see how complning to the FA/FL is gunna help us to be honest.
While you're here Gartom, please can you pass on the name BILLY KEE to JR/DS? If we aren't having him watched then we should be!
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
You mean John Ryan, right?
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PS,
I hope Tottenham Hotspur are going to take legal action against that knob 'ed Balotelli!
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
I dont, but when they used to respect us and now dont, and now they hate us, not good!
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
I dont, but when they used to respect us and now dont, and now they hate us, not good!
I don`t give a shit if they respect us or not, i don`t care about other teams or their principles, I don`t want to be known as that nice little team from Yorkshire, I want us to get nasty and ruthless like most other teams are when they play us!
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I stopped caring what other teams thought about us somewehere around 1998. If pushed I could come up with reasons to dislike all the other 91 and a fair few Conference sides.
They can all knackers when it comes to a choice.
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
I dont, but when they used to respect us and now dont, and now they hate us, not good!
I don`t give a shit if they respect us or not, i don`t care about other teams or their principles, I don`t want to be known as that nice little team from Yorkshire, I want us to get nasty and ruthless like most other teams are when they play us!
I could have told you that when Dave Penney left!
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PS,
I hope Tottenham Hotspur are going to take legal action against that knob 'ed Balotelli!
good old squeaky clean spurs :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Balotelli is fantastic - he gives away his wages like a footballing Robin Hood and despises footballer winkers
Got to say that having had a quick glance at the Brizzle site that it's great to meet fans with a mature and intelligent view of the game, pity most on that forum don't fall into the category
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Just a thought if JR is on the warpath about the poor refereeing decision for the Copps challenge and the Beye red card - why can we not use video evidence to get their player charged and the red card recinded? Or does that only apply to the Premier league. The game was video'd so it must show the incident.
:scarf:
We can't get the player involved in the Coppinger foul charged. The referee saw the incident because he gave the free kick. Once a ref has taken action, the FA can't then relook at it as they deem it that the ref has already dealt with it! Only if something is missed can the FA charge someone afterwards.
There are proper procedures Clubs, refs and the FA should follow, we can't just run off threatening legal action, we'll just end up with E3 and E20 charges left right and centre. We've got to be smarter in how we approach the situations to win cases.
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PS,
I hope Tottenham Hotspur are going to take legal action against that knob 'ed Balotelli!
good old squeaky clean spurs :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Balotelli is fantastic - he gives away his wages like a footballing Robin Hood and despises footballer winkers
Got to say that having had a quick glance at the Brizzle site that it's great to meet fans with a mature and intelligent view of the game, pity most on that forum don't fall into the category
Good for Balotelli, he and Saunders could be best friends as their ego's are huge!
Wait a minute..... southwest exile, that near Bristol, you on't cider as well?
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I'm afraid reading that Bristol City forum sums up what the footballing world think of us now, and lets be fair, if this was any other club who had adopted a similar policy regarding transfers and the way we conduct our affairs, we could be saying the same thing.
It is an utter embarrassment to be frank. Why we have to bring attention to ourselves by threatening to take completely unjust legal action is an absolute disgrace.
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Everything the club have done recently has sounded like a publicity stunt to me.
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
I dont, but when they used to respect us and now dont, and now they hate us, not good!
Of course they don't 'hate us', quite honestly I don't give a flying fook if they did. They know the truth and it's not that being espoused on their forum ; they are merely protecting their own player.
We need to let these shite ref. decisions 'game after game' alone.........we won't get anywhere the fuss we've kicked up before is obviously imo leading to more and more biased refereeing, hence being turned down for both penno appeals against Cardiff last week. :angry:
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John just called to say he is on Football Heaven tonight. He would like Rovers fans support tonight - as he is on the warpath re the poor ref decision against Copps, the lack of quality refs we have had to endure for a long time and the need to voice our discontent yet again.
As that man says at the Keepmoat...c'mon make some noise ! ......
Never heard JR so agitated- but I was at the match and he has a point !
Cheers and thanks for your support,
Gareth
I agree with him that refereeing standards are poor- you only have to look at the Premier League to prove that- but complaining and threatening legal action won't improve them.
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http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/143093-doncaster-take-legal-advice/
Let's be honest, we're a laughing stock!
Saunders and that massive ego!
To be perfectly honest, I don`t give a shit about what other teams and their fans think about us!
I dont, but when they used to respect us and now dont, and now they hate us, not good!
Of course they don't 'hate us', quite honestly I don't give a flying fook if they did. They know the truth and it's not that being espoused on their forum ; they are merely protecting their own player.
We need to let these shite ref. decisions 'game after game' alone.........we won't get anywhere the fuss we've kicked up before is obviously imo leading to more and more biased refereeing, hence being turned down for both penno appeals against Cardiff last week. :angry:
As I said earlier, JR complaining about poor decisions is hardly new. Remember the fuss we made over Chris Foy's failure to send off a Hartlepool player for a fairly obvious case of DOGSO? You have to ask yourself whether it is proving to be counter-productive.
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I agree with alot JR said but nothing will change and I think Dean and John have to accept incompetent referees are an occupational hazard. To be honest a lot of them are out of their depth and when faced with a highly charged atmosphere and a big decision they'll lean towards the big clubs simply because the backlash is going to carry less weight from the clubs with the smaller fan base.
Fred Graham is a poor referee in my opinion. He was demoted after his first season in the football league yet was subsequently reinstated at a later stage. It says a lot about the quality of referees coming through the system if those initially deemed not good enough are re-employed! His incompetence was there for all to see on Saturday.
We shouldn't let Grahams display paper over the cracks though. He probably missed the Coppinger incident because he wasn't focused and concentrating. Obviously an issue that became infectious because it had clearly infected James Hayter when Diouf's cross found him six yards out with the goal at his mercy and rather than react and thump the ball into the net it literally hit him and bounced into the grateful arms of David James. A wonderful opportunity had gone begging and sixty seconds later Beye lost his man as yet another cross came in from the right and the hosts were one up. On the balance of play they were well worth their lead but just how the game would have played out had Hayter taken that chance we'll never know.
Five minutes later it was 2-0 and Rovers were down to ten men. Yet from that point onwards Rovers who now had to set up a more defensive formation became harder to break down and less vulnerable at the back. So much so that we won the second half 1-0. Rather than dwell on another display of shocking refereeing Saunders would do better to look at how we played with a more solid defensive structure and take that into the game a week tomorrow at the KC Stadium. It's a suggestion that is far more likely to get a much needed positive result as opposed to seeking legal advice over the action of match officials.
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How can you seek legal action when football is a contact sport? Not as if
The player punched Copps in the face.
JR seriously why are you doing this? It will get nowhere same with the Lewis Dunk thing. (Which I'm sick of hearing about.) so basically John. What your saying is every challenge where a player comes off with bad injury due to a challenge that wasn't intended to do that level of damage should seek legal advice? Okay.
Wayne Thomas on Michael Chopra.
Put yourself in the 'culprits' shoes John. What would you say if Bristol was seeking legal advice against Doncaster?.... Everything I've said above?
You do alot of good things for Doncaster Rovers. But these legal battles will never ever work. Concentrate on keeping this club in the league. Not this.
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My two penneth worth already added on the stupid 'legal action' crap, let me say here also that why must we continue bleating on about the referees costing us games? Beye asked for a red card by lunging in with two feet. He was late, we know he has discipline problems. Simply put he deserved to be sent off.
These decisions don't even themselves out over the season? Or do people just ignore it when they actually do? I seem to remember a few weeks ago George Friend utterly flattened an onrushing striker when he was clean through, and not a thing was given. We've gotten away with penalty calls at varying points this season, as well as some other things. Refs have generally been bad but I've noticed them being bad for both sides. It's all just to deflect away from the real problem - our incompetence as a team.
Ryan has acted like this for a while, and Wrexham fans did say that Saunders loved to blame everyone before himself in his interviews when he was there. Accountability really needs to start coming into it for some of our staff.
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It's a disgrace. Was JR on football heaven tonight or not? Maybe he saw sense and decided to keep it shut.
I really despair as to what we are becoming. Saunders ought to take some responsibility for the defeat and how the team is beginning to play with a complete lack of discipline.
I cannot comment on the Coppinger injury as I haven't seen it, but everyone on the Bristol forum says it was a 50/50 ball and an unlucky clash of heads. With the amount of biased drivel I read on here, I think I know who to believe.
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My two penneth worth already added on the stupid 'legal action' crap, let me say here also that why must we continue bleating on about the referees costing us games? Beye asked for a red card by lunging in with two feet. He was late, we know he has discipline problems. Simply put he deserved to be sent off.
These decisions don't even themselves out over the season? Or do people just ignore it when they actually do? I seem to remember a few weeks ago George Friend utterly flattened an onrushing striker when he was clean through, and not a thing was given. We've gotten away with penalty calls at varying points this season, as well as some other things. Refs have generally been bad but I've noticed them being bad for both sides. It's all just to deflect away from the real problem - our incompetence as a team.
Ryan has acted like this for a while, and Wrexham fans did say that Saunders loved to blame everyone before himself in his interviews when he was there. Accountability really needs to start coming into it for some of our staff.
watch it again, it was n`t two footed, his trailing leg was tucked under his arse, he got a block on the ball, thats why the lino awarded a throw in, his direction of travel was no where near the attackers legs
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7884/beyex.jpg)
In fact watch again a few times, he does fly through the air, he touches the ball a split second before the attacker, touching the ball onto the attackers leg before it goes out of play, his foot is on the ground when he makes contact with the ball, his trailing leg at all times is tucked under his arse, watch the lino in the background he`s just as incompetent, he flags for a throw in when it clearly went out for a goal kick!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16673139.stm
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Here's the link to Football Heaven. His interview starts just after 33 minutes into the programme.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/p00mv610
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I despair.
I can see where he is coming from, but seriously. Like someone has pointed out, we've been on the \"right end\" of many a poor descision this season.
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He`s right, he`s only saying what many managers and chairmen dare n`t say for fear of reprisals from the FA, the standard of refereeing is shocking!
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And where will it get us exactly? Getting on your soapbox on a local radio show won't change a thing. It's the way he makes it out to be poor old little Donny that annoys me, when shocking refereeing is happening at all levels up and down the country.
I wonder if JR will blame relegation on referee's if we do go down. Won't be anything to do with the players or management not being good enough?
Now isn't the time to be drawing attention to ourselves. We should be digging deep and focusing on the next game. Berating match officials isn't going to win us any points.
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I can't believe some people on here having a go at JR about his stance on the Copps incident. I saw it and it seems most of the anti's here didn't. NO WAY was it 50/50. Having seen it live and the pic that shows head contact (and the ball how far away?!), and now the vid on the Bristol site which also shows the head butt (the arm was thrown in too as he was lunging), its clearly a red card for dangerous play. He made his mind up to go for the challenge and as he got near he should have pulled out, but bludgened his way in. He didn't go for the ball in the end, and had no chance of getting it. Go JR! I hope that player gets a several weeks wages fine and a ban if not something more serious. How the ref didn't at least give a yellow for incompetance is beyond me.
What good does taking legal action against the Bristol player? It lets players know they won't get away with it. Too right John.
Why on earth Rovers Player isn't showing that incident I don't know. Its on the City Player at 2.10 mins at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html)
The issue over unfair treatment of the smaller clubs is more debateable.
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Why do people keep saying Bêye jumped in 2 footed? :headbang:
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I can't believe some people on here having a go at JR about his stance on the Copps incident. I saw it and it seems most of the anti's here didn't. NO WAY was it 50/50. Having seen it live and the pic that shows head contact (and the ball how far away?!), and now the vid on the Bristol site which also shows the head butt (the arm was thrown in too as he was lunging), its clearly a red card for dangerous play. He made his mind up to go for the challenge and as he got near he should have pulled out, but bludgened his way in. He didn't go for the ball in the end, and had no chance of getting it. Go JR! I hope that player gets a several weeks wages fine and a ban if not something more serious. How the ref didn't at least give a yellow for incompetance is beyond me.
What good does taking legal action against the Bristol player? It lets players know they won't get away with it. Too right John.
Why on earth Rovers Player isn't showing that incident I don't know. Its on the City Player at 2.10 mins at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html)
The issue over unfair treatment of the smaller clubs is more debateable.
You're missing the point. Whether the challenge is fair or not is irrelevant as the referee's decision has been made. This is about JR's ridiculous idea that it should warrant legal action. The general concensus on here is that he is wrong and he must stop coming out with these frankly embarrassing statements.
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I listened to the interview. Although I think he's got a point as regards the standards of refereeing, that is more of an issue for general debate. The rest of it came over as sour grapes, I'm afraid to say.
If we're trying to engender some kind of siege mentality to get us through the rest of the season, then the evidence from most posters on here is that it isn't working.
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Why do people keep saying Bêye jumped in 2 footed? :headbang:
He doesn't need to go in two-footed. He went in with excessive force and was out of control. That's why he was sent off.
OK, another day, another ref, he might get a yellow. The point is he put himself in a position where he could have been sent off for a dangerous challenge.
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Beye deserved a red, it was a very dangerous tackle. I was there and we all knew it was coming and you could tell the players knew it was coming ad well, spurr had his hands on his head before the card was dished. Had it been on a rovers player I think most of you that don't think it was a red would have a different view.
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Had it been on a rovers player, it would not have been a red card...............
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No but it doesn't mean it shouldnt have been one and I bet those who feel it wasn't a red would be livid saying it should be one. It shouldn't make a difference that it was a rover.
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He`s right, he`s only saying what many managers and chairmen dare n`t say for fear of reprisals from the FA, the standard of refereeing is shocking!
No it isn't. Football is the most fluid game around controlled by simply 3 (maybe 4) officials who make dozens of decisions a game with little thought focussed on what they get right but maximum exposure on what they get wrong. Also combine it with the fact football is a low scoring/low opportunity sport and sadly referees always have the opportunity to decide a game. Its not helped by the appalling attitude of players and managers - who'd want to be a referee? Its as good as its going to get without technology. We berate officials all game but leave the ground not knowing how many decisions he actually got right or wrong. Even at the game you'll here a massive shout for a corner and when the referee gives a goal kick there'll most likely be someone around you who says \"I think actually he got that right\". Having officiated at a semi-pro level I can tell you the speed of the game, even at that level is unreal and people are bound to make mistakes - even technology can't determine some decisions.
As for accountability for referees, its already there, fans just need to stop being so knee jerk. Would you drop Billy Sharp for the chance he missed against Cardiff? Of course not, one mistake (albeit a big one) by a player on form is not a reason to drop him and a referee giving a decision like the Beye red card (which seems to have split Rovers fans in half no pun intended) is no reason to start throwing words like \"accountability\" around.
And most debates on here aren't to do with referees, they are about interpretation of the rules which aren't set by referees, only applied by them ;)
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He`s right, he`s only saying what many managers and chairmen dare n`t say for fear of reprisals from the FA, the standard of refereeing is shocking!
No it isn't. Football is the most fluid game around controlled by simply 3 (maybe 4) officials who make dozens of decisions a game with little thought focussed on what they get right but maximum exposure on what they get wrong. Also combine it with the fact football is a low scoring/low opportunity sport and sadly referees always have the opportunity to decide a game. Its not helped by the appalling attitude of players and managers - who'd want to be a referee? Its as good as its going to get without technology. We berate officials all game but leave the ground not knowing how many decisions he actually got right or wrong. Even at the game you'll here a massive shout for a corner and when the referee gives a goal kick there'll most likely be someone around you who says \"I think actually he got that right\". Having officiated at a semi-pro level I can tell you the speed of the game, even at that level is unreal and people are bound to make mistakes - even technology can't determine some decisions.
As for accountability for referees, its already there, fans just need to stop being so knee jerk. Would you drop Billy Sharp for the chance he missed against Cardiff? Of course not, one mistake (albeit a big one) by a player on form is not a reason to drop him and a referee giving a decision like the Beye red card (which seems to have split Rovers fans in half no pun intended) is no reason to start throwing words like \"accountability\" around.
And most debates on here aren't to do with referees, they are about interpretation of the rules which aren't set by referees, only applied by them ;)
Actually you are spot on.
The only people to blame are the spineless clowns that run the FA.
The respect idea is a complete joke. Someone should explain to the FA what respect means. (or doesn't it apply to high profile players?)
The rules should be simplified not made more complicated.
The goal Hull scored on Saturday was a prime example. Everyone in the ground saw the Hull striker miles off side make a move for the ball but then left it to another player. How is he not interfering with play?
As the late great Bill Shankly said. \"If he is not interfering with play he shouldn't be on the field\" It was true then and it is now.
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I can't believe some people on here having a go at JR about his stance on the Copps incident. I saw it and it seems most of the anti's here didn't. NO WAY was it 50/50. Having seen it live and the pic that shows head contact (and the ball how far away?!), and now the vid on the Bristol site which also shows the head butt (the arm was thrown in too as he was lunging), its clearly a red card for dangerous play. He made his mind up to go for the challenge and as he got near he should have pulled out, but bludgened his way in. He didn't go for the ball in the end, and had no chance of getting it. Go JR! I hope that player gets a several weeks wages fine and a ban if not something more serious. How the ref didn't at least give a yellow for incompetance is beyond me.
What good does taking legal action against the Bristol player? It lets players know they won't get away with it. Too right John.
Why on earth Rovers Player isn't showing that incident I don't know. Its on the City Player at 2.10 mins at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html)
The issue over unfair treatment of the smaller clubs is more debateable.
Thanks for that, I`ve watched it a few times now, it`s plainly obvious it was a headbut, he`s well late and the only thing he`s focused on is Copps head, he does n`t even get up to the height the ball was at, straight red in my opinion, the ref bottled it with it being so early in the game!
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I can't believe some people on here having a go at JR about his stance on the Copps incident. I saw it and it seems most of the anti's here didn't. NO WAY was it 50/50. Having seen it live and the pic that shows head contact (and the ball how far away?!), and now the vid on the Bristol site which also shows the head butt (the arm was thrown in too as he was lunging), its clearly a red card for dangerous play. He made his mind up to go for the challenge and as he got near he should have pulled out, but bludgened his way in. He didn't go for the ball in the end, and had no chance of getting it. Go JR! I hope that player gets a several weeks wages fine and a ban if not something more serious. How the ref didn't at least give a yellow for incompetance is beyond me.
What good does taking legal action against the Bristol player? It lets players know they won't get away with it. Too right John.
Why on earth Rovers Player isn't showing that incident I don't know. Its on the City Player at 2.10 mins at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html)
The issue over unfair treatment of the smaller clubs is more debateable.
Thanks for that, I`ve watched it a few times now, it`s plainly obvious it was a headbut, he`s well late and the only thing he`s focused on is Copps head, he does n`t even get up to the height the ball was at, straight red in my opinion, the ref bottled it with it being so early in the game!
Cab it be put on here so we dont have to regidter please ?
Or You-Tube ?
... and can we \"capture it\" before it is spirited away ?
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How anyone can defend Beye is beyond me, whether his stud were showing, both feet or not he lunges off the ground for the ball, there is no difference to this challenge and the dunk challenge, both were aimed at the ball, and if anyone thinks differently there is the images of the dunk challenges attatched, his leg is tucked in and he dives in before Sharp moves the ball...
That one was a red for Dunk but our wasnt on Saturday? You can't have it both ways...
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What is it that JR and Saunders don't understand about the rule 'the referee's decision is final'? I think they both know the writing is on the wall for us and are both getting their excuses in early. It won't be either of them to blame when we get relegated it will be the refs fault. Absolutely pathetic.
Imagine if you were a referee and all you ever heard coming out of the Rovers camp was constant criticism. How would you feel? Would you feel resentment towards the club or would you think 'they've got a fair point, I'd better start giving them an advantage in a game by giving some dodgy decisions against the opposition'. Anyone with half a brain would know the answer to that one.
It is unbelievably stupid to criticise refs, the FA etc as all this is going to do is make it more likely that decisions are going to go against us. Imagine if you were a ref and after the match the manager praised you saying something like 'he's got a difficult job and did his best'. How would you then feel as a ref? Isn't it obvious they would more likely be on your side when there was a 50/50 decision? I can't believe I'm having to point out the blindingly obvious to the people running the club.
So JR and Saunders get a grip and stop making yourselves and our great club more of a laughing stock than we already are.
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I can't believe some people on here having a go at JR about his stance on the Copps incident. I saw it and it seems most of the anti's here didn't. NO WAY was it 50/50. Having seen it live and the pic that shows head contact (and the ball how far away?!), and now the vid on the Bristol site which also shows the head butt (the arm was thrown in too as he was lunging), its clearly a red card for dangerous play. He made his mind up to go for the challenge and as he got near he should have pulled out, but bludgened his way in. He didn't go for the ball in the end, and had no chance of getting it. Go JR! I hope that player gets a several weeks wages fine and a ban if not something more serious. How the ref didn't at least give a yellow for incompetance is beyond me.
What good does taking legal action against the Bristol player? It lets players know they won't get away with it. Too right John.
Why on earth Rovers Player isn't showing that incident I don't know. Its on the City Player at 2.10 mins at http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html (http://www.bcfc.co.uk/articles/20120122/extended-city-2-1-doncaster-rovers_2258724_2583209/0,,10327~2583209~1,00.html)
The issue over unfair treatment of the smaller clubs is more debateable.
You're missing the point. Whether the challenge is fair or not is irrelevant as the referee's decision has been made. This is about JR's ridiculous idea that it should warrant legal action. The general concensus on here is that he is wrong and he must stop coming out with these frankly embarrassing statements.
Most people on here have come to their conclusion without seeing the incident which I find is reactive of them. Lets separate the issues:
[ol]
[li]The referee was wrong, and clearly he was, and that should be challenged. I'm not sure of all the processes there, but the FA does act in some situations with players receiving punishments despite what the referee did in the game. [/li]
[li]Also with this, what was it that the referee was thinking at the time? Was it that he didn't see it or did he honestly think it wasn't even a yellow? This is about transparency, and its right that the referee should make his position clear. What happens from there regarding the referee depends on what he says. If it is evident he is judging the action in the game wrongly then he can be set right. That may involve a demotion, some training or whatever.[/li]
[li]The incident is not as clear cut as someone throwing a punch. Its similar to Balotelli's stamping, which being generous was at best was reckless and hotheaded, but also not purely accidental - though in a court he would ultimately be given the benefit of the marginal doubt. Nonetheless, assualt on a football pitch is assault, and IMO its right that it can be punished through the courts. Some players do have attitude problems that result in violence, just as some people do - do we ignore this?[/li]
[/ol]
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How anyone can defend Beye is beyond me, whether his stud were showing, both feet or not he lunges off the ground for the ball, there is no difference to this challenge and the dunk challenge, both were aimed at the ball, and if anyone thinks differently there is the images of the dunk challenges attatched, his leg is tucked in and he dives in before Sharp moves the ball...
That one was a red for Dunk but our wasnt on Saturday? You can't have it both ways...
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Totally different tackles, dunk`s was from behind and went straight through the back of Billy, Beye`s was side on, and beye got his foot to the ball before the Bristol player got to the ball!
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How anyone can defend Beye is beyond me, whether his stud were showing, both feet or not he lunges off the ground for the ball, there is no difference to this challenge and the dunk challenge, both were aimed at the ball, and if anyone thinks differently there is the images of the dunk challenges attatched, his leg is tucked in and he dives in before Sharp moves the ball...
That one was a red for Dunk but our wasnt on Saturday? You can't have it both ways...
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Totally different tackles, dunk`s was from behind and went straight through the back of Billy, Beye`s was side on, and beye got his foot to the ball before the Bristol player got to the ball!
Unfortunately the argument is largely academic / theoretical and is a matter of opinion and unfortunately the Refs opinion (from his one view) on Beye was that he should be sent off.
With the benefit of multiple replays all from the BBC Player I / we can conjecture forever but it still LOOKED to the Ref that it was a dangerous challenge of the type they are trying to outlaw
That may or may not be correct but it is what the man in charge decided and what we have to accept whether just or not. Unfortunately the injustice does not as they say seem to \"even itself out\"
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You are absolutely right on both calls Filo, this is not about bias at all or being soft . Quite clearly Dunk's tackle was a clear red as was the one on Copps. Personally having looked at the Beye incident a good few times, I can't call it a red in the same way as the linesman (only a few metres away) didn't........the referee obviously has some sort of enhanced eyesight to see summat that only the crowd would call for from that distance.
Basically the referee was a cheating t**t totally led by the crowd not once but twice. Fuming here but all the JR rants in the world won't bring the 3 points back
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Basically the referee was a cheating t**t totally led by the crowd not once but twice. Fuming here but all the JR rants in the world won't bring the 3 points back
True ... just as Man City got 3 points after Balotelli was lucky that Ref did not spot what looks like a clear stamp (same as Karl Henry for Wolves which was spotted)
He then was felled for a Pen and then scored from the spot and got City 3 points - and if Spurs dont get a Champions League spot by one point they will be cursing that decision AND unfortunately Teams DO suffer from these injustices all the time.
Similarly when Players get sent off and should not have been and the Ref looks back later and recinds the Red - fine - but often his Club gets punsihed twice and loses a game but they never get the chance to replay the game 11 v 11
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echo the points really. As soon as I saw the Beye challenge I thought it was red. He is not in control when he leaves the floor.
Not seen the Copps incident, so wont comment.
I think we need to move on to be honest.
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As the late great Bill Shankly said. \"If he is not interfering with play he shouldn't be on the field\" It was true then and it is now.
Wasnt it Brian CLough that said that?...but still a true statement nevertheless
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Some people one here are lightening quick to bad mouth anything to do with the mangerial/board side of the club it's untrue. Makes you want to :suicide:
I sometimes think the club would be better off without all these people. Can you imagine being a floating supporter, half thinking about coming down to watch a game with your kids, then you happen to live next door to one of these negative, doom merchants?? You'd nip off to Leeds instead wouldn't you, or Bramhall lane?
Now I'm not the most clever man who ever lived, but if I can see what the board, the club, the manager, Willie are all trying to do and what the consequences of not doing it are, why can't other people?? I mean, it's really not that difficult is it? :blink:
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A similar point to one I made on the other thread. Really, how much would it take for the 4th official to be able to quickly replay an incident, speak to which ever officials on the pitch were involved and advise the decision. It happens in other sports. The game, in most cases would have stopped briefly, so it wouldn't affect play. And then most of this human error would be avoided.
If they're not going to do that then at least award the team a point, as the game can't be replayed.
Something needs to be done.
To say we shoudln't complain (not lawsuits, but complain) when we feel there has been a significantly bad decision, because future refs might black list us is silly. So we let refs ignore fouls etc against us, so as not to upset them and they continue. We complain and they continue. It's loose loose for us, until something proper is done.
Lets get behind the WHOLE team. We can do this. :scarf:
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The Beye incident needs looking at by the FA, either the ref or the lino need to account for their decision making
1) why did the lino signal ball out of play when he was only a yard away from the incident, why did n`t he signal a foul?
2) The ref, over 60 yards away gives a foul (bionic eyesight) and ignores his lino, who was clearly in a better position to assess the incident, now is the lino or assistant referee as they are know known really assistants or are they just offside spotters?
The copps incident, well it was a straight red, the more I watch it, the more i`m convinced, not only is it a headbut, but the player leads with his elbow as well, all after the ball had gone, the FA need to look at that and issue a retrospective ban!
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How anyone can defend Beye is beyond me, whether his stud were showing, both feet or not he lunges off the ground for the ball, there is no difference to this challenge and the dunk challenge, both were aimed at the ball, and if anyone thinks differently there is the images of the dunk challenges attatched, his leg is tucked in and he dives in before Sharp moves the ball...
That one was a red for Dunk but our wasnt on Saturday? You can't have it both ways...
Point of fact Mr Croft. In Dunk's case, he was never aiming his foot at the ball and never got within 2 feet of it. Also, Sharp didn't touch the ball after Dunk had gone airborne. You can see it much more clearly on the attached file.
Beye's case is difficult to see as clearly, but it does look like a rather silly Hong Kong Phooey attempt to block the cross rather than a malicious shot at someone's leg.
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Spot on BST.
And 1croft......when will anyone or anything new at the club be any good at all? It's now getting to the point where people are making stuff up in thier own heads to justify bashing the club. I can't see the point to it myself? Perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Beye DIDN'T go in two footed, and he got the ball. Is that a red card, or is tackling no longer allowed, not because of the consequences, but because refs know it's going to end in play acting and they don't have the balls to control it?
But to turn this into some JR/Saunders/DRFC bashing is not only stupid, it's not helping anyone or anything. I thought we'd turned a corner on here a week or so ago, but I guess some people won't be happy until we're relegated and JR leaves. Personally I wish you'd go away and take your nonsense to another club because some people are like someone else's fart in your spacesuit.
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Actually, the more I look at that Beye incident on the BBC highlights, the worse a decision it looks by the ref. I can see why he's sent him off, because it looks horrendous on first viewing. Looking at it frame by frame, it actually looks like a perfectly judged, hard but fair block. He's taken off to make the challenge, but he had never once aimed his leg or foot at Skuse, or at where Skuse was heading. He has aimed solely for the ball. By the time he's made the tackle, both feet and legs are on the floor, he's blocked the cross or deflected the ball back onto Skuse (difficult to tell), then Skuse has gone over Beye's leg. That, to me, looks like an excellently judged and executed block.
True, if he's misjudged it, he could have broken Skuse's leg. But he didn;t misjudge it. He got it spot on. If we're disallowing that kind of challenge, then the game has changed beyond recognition.
In addition to that, the referee, thirty yards away, has four or five players running across his field of view of the incident. The linesman is right on the case, 1 yard away. Yet the ref has not even spoken to the linesman before pulling out the red card. He hasn't even asked whether Beye's studs were showing, whether his leg was high, whether he got to the ball first, whether his foot made contact with Skuse or whether Skuse has gone over Beye's leg. All of those of key issues. The ref couldn't possibly judge any of those facts. The linesman had a perfect view of all of them.
Grounds for appeal I'd say.
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The Beye incident needs looking at by the FA, either the ref or the lino need to account for their decision making
1) why did the lino signal ball out of play when he was only a yard away from the incident, why did n`t he signal a foul?
2) The ref, over 60 yards away gives a foul (bionic eyesight) and ignores his lino, who was clearly in a better position to assess the incident, now is the lino or assistant referee as they are know known really assistants or are they just offside spotters?
The copps incident, well it was a straight red, the more I watch it, the more i`m convinced, not only is it a headbut, but the player leads with his elbow as well, all after the ball had gone, the FA need to look at that and issue a retrospective ban!
It says in todays Star that the club will not be contesting the Beye red card so the FA will not be looking into it.
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Having viewed both incidents i conclude as follows.
1. The head butt on Coppinger was a sending off offence. No way on gods earth was the BC player ever going to reach the ball first, especially as he was coming from the side, and the only outcome was going to be a Physical assault.
2. Baye was not tackling, when he was \"Airborne\" the BC player was at least 2 yards away, it was an attempt to a) block the ball or b) slide it out of play. If anyone was late ( or malicious ), it was in fact The BC player.
I just wonder what the assistant referee was signaling for though. Certainly not a goal kick, and with angle of flag not a corner, its a mystery.
Still, my opinion counts for nothing.
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Actually, the more I look at that Beye incident on the BBC highlights, the worse a decision it looks by the ref. I can see why he's sent him off, because it looks horrendous on first viewing. Looking at it frame by frame, it actually looks like a perfectly judged, hard but fair block. He's taken off to make the challenge, but he had never once aimed his leg or foot at Skuse, or at where Skuse was heading. He has aimed solely for the ball. By the time he's made the tackle, both feet and legs are on the floor, he's blocked the cross or deflected the ball back onto Skuse (difficult to tell), then Skuse has gone over Beye's leg. That, to me, looks like an excellently judged and executed block.
True, if he's misjudged it, he could have broken Skuse's leg. But he didn;t misjudge it. He got it spot on. If we're disallowing that kind of challenge, then the game has changed beyond recognition.
In addition to that, the referee, thirty yards away, has four or five players running across his field of view of the incident. The linesman is right on the case, 1 yard away. Yet the ref has not even spoken to the linesman before pulling out the red card. He hasn't even asked whether Beye's studs were showing, whether his leg was high, whether he got to the ball first, whether his foot made contact with Skuse or whether Skuse has gone over Beye's leg. All of those of key issues. The ref couldn't possibly judge any of those facts. The linesman had a perfect view of all of them.
Grounds for appeal I'd say.
I thought the Vincent Kompany tackle was never a red card, but the decision was upheld and seems to have set a benchmark for what is considered a dangerous challenge. Kompany himself said he thought it would lead to a flurry of red cards and Beye may well have been an early victim of the \"purge.\"
I will say that I think ANY player who launches himself into a challenge from that distance and at that speed is putting himself at risk of being sent off. Within a month or two's time there will probably be a consensus among referees and you may well find that similar challenges to Beye's are not deemed to be red card material. However, I have to say that, to use that dreaded cliche \"in the current climate\" Beye's challenge put him at risk of being sent off.
You may recall that at one time aerial challenges were under similar scrutiny, although the danger posed to an opponent's safety by the flying elbow or forearm seems to have largely been forgotten (see also under Lescott and Song at the weekend.) In that particular \"climate\" Bolassie would have been very likely to have been sent off for an aerial challenge that injured an opponent.
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TRB.
I couldn't agree more. Beye made it easy for the ref to send him off and I wouldn't dispute that. I still think that according to both the spirit and the letter of the Law, the ref has made an error in his judgement of the incident, and a bigger error in not consulting his linesman.
I'm not usually one for berating refs, but, like Ryan, I'm finding it hard to stay calm at the way the key decisions are regularly going against us this season.
The Dunk incident, the penalty for that foot around O'Connor's neck last week and the two sending-off decisions this week were all crucial ones that could and should have gone the other way. There's a case that we have lost 8 points as a result of those decisions and I can't think of any remotely similar decisions that have gone in our favour. That will have a big bearing on our final position.
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Spot on BST.
And 1croft......when will anyone or anything new at the club be any good at all? It's now getting to the point where people are making stuff up in thier own heads to justify bashing the club. I can't see the point to it myself? Perhaps someone can enlighten me?
Beye DIDN'T go in two footed, and he got the ball. Is that a red card, or is tackling no longer allowed, not because of the consequences, but because refs know it's going to end in play acting and they don't have the balls to control it?
But to turn this into some JR/Saunders/DRFC bashing is not only stupid, it's not helping anyone or anything. I thought we'd turned a corner on here a week or so ago, but I guess some people won't be happy until we're relegated and JR leaves. Personally I wish you'd go away and take your nonsense to another club because some people are like someone else's fart in your spacesuit.
I agree that we shouldn't be looking at this as a stick with which to beat JR, Dean Saunders or even Willie McKay (not sure where he fits in all this) but I have to say we are getting a reputation as a bunch of whingers. By all means have an occasional blast at officials when they've got something badly wrong, but we're in danger of going down the Warnock route of criticising refs almost every week. You have to accept that a lot of clubs and fans don't like what we're doing with regard to bringing in loan players on the cheap, and if we keep on blaming referees for our misfortunes people will think we're not prepared to look at our own shortcomings.
The \"legal advice\" thing came over very badly to me. I think we should pursue such matters within the game before we think about getting lawyers involved, and even then I'm not sure we should be going public.
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Habib Beye a sure candidate for the gold medal in the long jump competition in London!