Labour split

[RedJ]

The vermin in parliament who are trying every trick in the book to block Brexit are traitors and should all be executed for treason.

Toddle of to Iran or  Saudi Arabia. That's what they'd do there.

One thing that Brexit has done. It'd smoked out loads of people who claim to be in favour of democracy, but haven't actually got a f**king clue what it means.

Like keep voting until we get the 'right' answer.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

[Bentley Bullet]

If you buy a lottery ticket and lose it doesn't stop you buying another ticket to win next time. If you buy a lottery ticket and win, and then they tell you to f**k off, you haven't won because there's gonna be a re-draw, you'd be rather peeved!

[Not Now Kato]

The vermin in parliament who are trying every trick in the book to block Brexit are traitors and should all be executed for treason.

Toddle of to Iran or  Saudi Arabia. That's what they'd do there.

One thing that Brexit has done. It'd smoked out loads of people who claim to be in favour of democracy, but haven't actually got a f**king clue what it means.

Like keep voting until we get the 'right' answer.

Axholme, perhaps you should read this document, published by the Government yesterday.  Finally, they have admitted the probable impacts to the UK of a No Deal Brexit - you know, the kind that you appear to want.
 
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/781768/Implications_for_Business_and_Trade_of_a_No_Deal_Exit_on_29_March_2019.pdf
 
Having read that, (though somehow I think you won't), do you still want No Deal?  And if so, why?

[Glyn_Wigley]

The vermin in parliament who are trying every trick in the book to block Brexit are traitors and should all be executed for treason.

Toddle of to Iran or  Saudi Arabia. That's what they'd do there.

One thing that Brexit has done. It'd smoked out loads of people who claim to be in favour of democracy, but haven't actually got a f**king clue what it means.

Like keep voting until we get the 'right' answer.

It'll be the will of the people.

[Donnywolf]

The vermin in parliament who are trying every trick in the book to block Brexit are traitors and should all be executed for treason.

Toddle of to Iran or  Saudi Arabia. That's what they'd do there.

One thing that Brexit has done. It'd smoked out loads of people who claim to be in favour of democracy, but haven't actually got a f**king clue what it means.

Like keep voting until we get the 'right' answer.

Yes - but as I keep saying to anyone that will read what I put - and you have not responded so I will repeat it again - we got the right answer in 1976.

Majority then 33 to 34 % ( to Remain)

Majority 2016 3 to 4 % (to Leave)

10 times more people voted first time round to Remain than last time to Leave. Then (mainly) Tory MPs immediately started to disrupt the "will of the British people" and carried on for 40 years till they got their way

Would you be miffed if you were a voter in 76 that they kept going until THEY got the result they wanted

I have no axe to grind with you or anyone - people have opinions one way or another - I just like to point out what happened in 1976 (again) and for the record I voted Leave !

[DonnyOsmond]

If you buy a lottery ticket and lose it doesn't stop you buying another ticket to win next time. If you buy a lottery ticket and win, and then they tell you to f**k off, you haven't won because there's gonna be a re-draw, you'd be rather peeved!

Its more like being told you've got cancer and Aids by the same doctor and then asking for a second opinion.

[Bentley Bullet]

Is it really? I doubt even RedJ would agree with that one..........Mind you, time will tell!

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
That would be a brilliant analogy if it weren't a really shit analogy.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's more like choosing between two beds on the understanding  that you  would stay in the  bed you chose for the rest of your life, then waking up one day to find that Boris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Liam Fox, Chris Grayling, James Dyson, that Kitson from Weatherspoons and Vladimir Putin had all popped in and done massive shits in the bed you chose, then having to decide whether to honour the agreement  to spend the rest of your life in that bed or move to another bed.

[Bentley Bullet]

..... Are you reading Filo?

Can't resist can you Billy lad. I think it's a perfect example of how people will react to a re-vote.

Your reply, following the insulting one, is just a bag of shite that's only worthy of a RedJ 'like'.

[BillyStubbsTears]

BB
I wasn't trying to be insulting. It just was a shit analogy. If you think "people" will think like that (I wouldn't know cos I don't often talk to "people") then as a bright lad, you've got a responsibility not to spread daft analogies like that.

Actually mine wasn't very good either, but there's one halfway between the two that's just about right.

It's like buying a ticket to the lottery where you don't know what the prize is, but Boris Johnson says he's read the small print and the prize will be f**king brill. You win, then two years later, you read the small print and it says that the winner wins the right to have  Boris Johnson shit in their bed and take £20,000 of future wealth off every man woman and child in the country.

But you do have the right to burn your ticket and pretend it never happened. Or, of course, you can insist on claiming your prize and slag off anyone who points out the downside as being condescending.

[Bentley Bullet]

Billy. I've told you before. As an intelligent guy, you have a responsibility to not mislead vulnerable people who hang on every word you say. It's your duty as a decent guy at least.

Now, what I said is what I feel will be a consequence of another vote. The people who were deprived of their lottery win will be mostly those who support the 'Kitsons' you describe! I'm afraid that it's your analogy that is a really shit one for that reason alone, without looking further into the bullshit.

You must try harder owd lad. That was embarrassing.

[Glyn_Wigley]

What I can't understand then, is why Leavers would want to spurn the chance to rub Remainers noses in it even more by having an even more emphatic and glorious victory?

[wing commander]

What I can't understand then, is why Leavers would want to spurn the chance to rub Remainers noses in it even more by having an even more emphatic and glorious victory?

Oh my Lord..Thats a bit like saying Rovers only beat a team 1-0 so lets forget that one and play them again and try and do better...

[bobjimwilly]

The analogy with lottery tickets is shite. A lottery gives you a tiny chance of winning something based on no knowledge of anything; the consequences of Brexit, whether a no-deal or not, can be safetley predicted using established economic models and has already been backed up with, for example, a steady stream of Global businesses moving their headquarters and factories out of the country.

[Bentley Bullet]

BJW, as with all analogies there are lots of differences in the detail! The basic point of using the lottery ticket as an example of how Brexiteers could react towards a re-vote is an excellent one.

[MachoMadness]

Why are we comparing Brexit to a lottery anyway? I thought it was a sure thing that Brexit was going to be super amazing? Now all of a sudden the goalposts have shifted to a game of random chance? What happened, lads?

[Bentley Bullet]

What's happened is an excellent analogy has been taken out of context by the usual culprits.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Many make the point we didn't know what was voted for, however does that apply after ref2 and a remain win? Do we then go again at every change?

[BillyStubbsTears]

BFYP

No. Of course not. Because we know what Remain means. Just like we now know what May's deal or No Deal means.

The whole point is that in 2016, NO-ONE knew what "Leave" meant. It wasn't a thing. It was a totally ill-defined concept covering a huge spectrum of possible outcomes.

Farage was still saying six months AFTER the vote that a Norway deal was preferable. That's way closer integration with the EU than anything being put forward as acceptable to the Right these days.

I posted a video on here a few weeks ago of a prominent Brexiter during g the ref campaign saying it would be lunacy to leave with No Deal. He's now supporting No Deal. Fox insisted that trade negotiations would be the easiest in history and we'd simply roll over existing EU agreements with other countries. In 2 years he's managed to roll over 7 out of 69. There are countless other examples.

We now have FAR more clarity on precisely what options there are for Leave. It is wilful stupidity to say that the 2016 vote gave a clear mandate and that to revisit that would be anti-democratic.

[Axholme Lion]

If the current generation had be around in 1940 we would have surrendered and been speaking German by now because going to war would be too difficult and cost too much.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If the current generation had be around in 1940 we would have surrendered and been speaking German by now because going to war would be too difficult and cost too much.

And here was me thinking that we were promised that Brexit was going to be easy and save us money!

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

BFYP

No. Of course not. Because we know what Remain means. Just like we now know what May's deal or No Deal means.

But here is the point which is oft used for another vote, we don't no what remain means do we?  Promises on the remain side in the last ref wouldn't have been kept and were untrue also, but nobody seems to mention that....


As for Axholme Lion, your last post is frankly rubbish.....

[bobjimwilly]

Of course we know what remain means? It means as we were before. Simple as that.
What promises are you referring to?

[Bristol Red Rover]

Scary numbers for Labour in these poll results.

https://medium.com/@theobertram/the-week-that-labour-lost-3307ecd58ce5

We've finally got to the inevitable outcome of Corbynism. The apparent polling support Labour had was always piss and wind. It's rapidly evaporating.

What a mess.

Such emotive comments, and very reactive to one poll. Note the YouGov/Times polls consistently giving the Tories a higher rating than other polls. Anyone would think The Times is biased.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2019

Worth noting that link was to a blog by a former advisor to Blair. It's clear he'd word info in one direction only. The funniest part of was the overtly Blairite comment:

It is absolutely essential to Labour’s campaign at the next general election that Labour voters believe that Labour can win and that a vote for anyone but Labour will put the Tories in office. If Labour voters start to see consistent Tory leads of six points or more, then there is no longer jeopardy in casting their vote in protest with the TIG and they will do so in larger numbers.

Support for TIG is likely to be soft and highly volatile. Ultimately it can be won back by Labour but not by this leader. And unless Labour can quickly respond to the events of this last week, Labour support will decline further.

And that with the added 11% think The Indi Group could win the next election - which looney bin were they polling?

Labour support does appear to have progressively decreased, albeit very gradually, over recent times. However, considering the bullshit put out by the press (the effectiveness of which is ehoed in this forum), and especially the nonsensical antisemitism smears on Corbyn, it is hardly surprising that many are finally being twisted to see things as the scared shitless establishment are wanting them to.

[albie]

BJW

Does Remain need to be just as was?
Maybe a remain and reform package is needed.

All is not well within the EU, as events in Hungary show.
Perhaps now is the time for a review of the way the institution works!

The polls are just a temporary barometer, which give pointers to the big data analytics of where to focus.
Folk should remember Labour improved over 20 points in the polls leading up to the last election.

One or two on here are still living in the past, when polling was the only tool in the toolbox.
Since 2010 or so, that is history.

[i_ateallthepies]

It was a shit analogy BB.  Brexiteers were telling us that we would all be better off without the EU.  I don't ever remember being told everybody would win the lottery.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Albie

Corbyn campaigned superbly in 2017. And May was horrific.

But we KNOW those abilities now. They are priced in. It's not going to be a surprise next time when May is unable to form intelligible sentence. And Corbyn is not going to be able to pull off the sleight of hand of convincing left Leavers and Remainers that he agreed with both of them.

Individuals are meaningless, but look at the drift over the past 12 months. Corbyn has taken Labour's support back down to not much above where it was in early 2017 through a series of entirely avoidable f**k ups, every one of which, as I keep saying, are attributable to his infantile approach to foreign policy.

[Bentley Bullet]

It was a shit analogy BB.  Brexiteers were telling us that we would all be better off without the EU.  I don't ever remember being told everybody would win the lottery.

IAATP. Your misunderstanding of my comparison regarding why I think many Brexiteers will object to a re-vote is your problem. It is, after all, an excellent analogy.

[Bristol Red Rover]

Albie

Corbyn campaigned superbly in 2017. And May was horrific.

But we KNOW those abilities now. They are priced in. It's not going to be a surprise next time when May is unable to form intelligible sentence. And Corbyn is not going to be able to pull off the sleight of hand of convincing left Leavers and Remainers that he agreed with both of them.

Individuals are meaningless, but look at the drift over the past 12 months. Corbyn has taken Labour's support back down to not much above where it was in early 2017 through a series of entirely avoidable f**k ups, every one of which, as I keep saying, are attributable to his infantile approach to foreign policy.

I don't see any of the issues that most read about being about his actual foriegn policies, more to do with Israeli influenced mass media swallowed anti-semite bullshit. The bullshit about him supporting terrorism by Hamas, and then the Venezuela thing thrown on top - minus any mention of the US doing the same as it's done all over the world, for ever. That and the general bullshit swallowing of the Tories having a great economic know how whereas Corbyn is a commie friend of Stalin, once slept with Gadaffi, and has a love child with Sadam Hussain.

As an aside, it would be interesting to hear about your foriegn policy ideas about Venezuela, Israel, and USA.