Malaysian Airlines Plane Shot Down In Ukraine??

[The Red Baron]

TRB

Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.

You reckon Obama has a worse rap sheet than that?

I was wrong to say "worst." I should have said "weakest." Putin is emboldened by the fact that he knows Obama is unwilling to back up his windy rhetoric with anything stronger. For Putin also read the Islamists who have caused havoc in Iraq, Nigeria and many other places.

[BillyStubbsTears]

What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?

[Sprotyrover]

What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?

What do you think a strong Us President would have done.

[The Red Baron]

What would a "strong" US leader have done about Ukraine?

Well, I don't think it necessarily involves sending troops in, but he could have offered a lot more logistical support to the Ukranian government. However, the problem is more one of perception. Putin believes that the US has become isolationist on Obama's watch and is probably right.

Having said all that, a lot of the problems in Ukraine were caused by meddling from the EU, for which we must take a share of the responsibility.

A strong President would not have left the Iraqui Government (which the US supposedly supports) without the means to defend itself, either.

[Sprotyrover]

Two good points,there is a lot of sh*t on you tube today concerning the two Malay airliners, some of it quite disturbing.
The stuff about Diego Garcia is interestng.
Sproty did say the Yanks shot that plane down remember!

[BillyStubbsTears]

TRB

A hypothesis. The USA threw away both it's moral high ground and it's domestic stomach for playing the world's policeman in the backstreets of Sadr City and the roadsides of Kandahar.

Obama is the heir to a disastrous few years in madcap foreign intervention and America is a different country as a result.

http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/03/public-sees-u-s-power-declining-as-support-for-global-engagement-slips/

[Sprotyrover]

Christine Lagarde talking about the global currency reset. Is slightly alarming,especially the one when she talks about the significance of the the number 7!

[Sandy Lane]

This situation is very alarming with reports of the rebels' looting, bodies being left in the heat or stolen, now,finally, they are giving limited access.  Even so the black boxes were taken away by who knows whom.  Tbh, my first thought when hearing this and the US' very quick finger pointing at Putin and Russia, was that we had shot it down to get world backing for the Ukraine, against Russia.  I'm the first to admit I read too many spy novels these days, and I'm relieved to see that that does not appear to be the case.

Anyway, my thoughts to the victims and their families, and if Dutch Uncle has any friends or associates among the victims, my condolences.

[Dutch Uncle]

Many thanks for the kind thoughts Sandy. Although we moved back to Bangor, County Down about a year ago after 36 years in NL, obviously I still have many friends still there, and my eldest daughter still lives there. As far as I know I don't know anyone involved. However my daughter's husband is half Malaysian and they have flown that exact flight several times before. Scary.

I just hope all sides handle the crisis sensibily (that does not mean weakly) and it does not unnecessarily cause far greater tragedies and suffering.

[hoolahoop]

TRB

Worse than Dubya? Really? I mean...REALLY? A president who led the country into one illegal war, one unwinnable war and who pissed away the biggest fiscal surplus in a century on tax cuts for the richest few percent, leading directly to the second worst economic collapse since the 1870s.

You reckon O FCCbama has a worse rap sheet than that?

Nah Dubya was a complete the tool. Both the Bush ' s were.......Obama will have to work hard to ever reach their level of all - round incompetence.

[hoolahoop]

Strangely I thought there would be far more interest in this subject.

[RobTheRover]

TBH, Hoola, there seems to be innocent's being murdered all over the world at the moment, and it is beginning to lose its horror.

Ukraine
Gaza
The poor little 5 year old in the USA killed in the crossfire between her abductor and the police.

It seems the rights of the innocent to be safe in their everyday lives have been eroded away.

[not on facebook]

TBH, Hoola, there seems to be innocent's being murdered all over the world at the moment, and it is beginning to lose its horror.

Ukraine
Gaza
The poor little 5 year old in the USA killed in the crossfire between her abductor and the police.

It seems the rights of the innocent to be safe in their everyday lives have been eroded away.

eye for an eye and time to bring back Death penalty ,as society has gone far too soft and laid back for certian crimes

it seems today the world over, that the culprits have far better human rights
than the right to live of the victims and their Familys.

dont give two fcuks what any left wing fcuk says at peodofiles,but they should put to Death aswell instead of trying to understand them and study their so called fcuking sickness

 

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oslo

You'd be at home in Saudi Arabia and Iran mate. They have a very similar outlook to you.

[not on facebook]

Oslo

You'd be at home in Saudi Arabia and Iran mate. They have a very similar outlook to you.

why not BST ,as way society is going the prisons will be rammed full With over crowding and fcukwits on the outside
moaning about the prisoners human rights

read in the paper yesterday about a women from home counties.she had conned 100s thousands out of benafit system,and it would take her 178 years to pay it back at the rate deemed actable by the judge.WTF.ok its not the deatrh penalty but shows how out of grasp Our society is.

why should the Death sentence be not given out to anyone
that murders a person once found guilty as charged

[RedJ]

Because you can't un-execute them if it turns out you've got the wrong bloke.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Oslo

I think the gist of what you're saying is that you reckon Sharia Law has a better take on this than liberal Western democracies do.

[RobTheRover]

I'm a Rosso lad.  I used to love a good stoning in the early 80s.

[keyser_soze]

Oslo

I think the gist of what you're saying is that you reckon Sharia Law has a better take on this than liberal Western democracies do.

Irony is a cruel mistress.

[Filo]

I'm a Rosso lad.  I used to love a good stoning in the early 80s.

Most people in Rosso these days are stoned

[Sprotyrover]

Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:

Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/

in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.

[Dare to dream!]

Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:

Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/

in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.

That is interesting, if true

[Yargo]

Some interesting stuff on PPrune today including this:

Shttp://www.infowars.com/whistleblower-u-s-satellite-images-show-ukrainian-troops-shooting-down-mh17/

in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.

Well that can all be cleared up by those pro- Russians that were claiming to have downed a Ukrainian military jet on the same time and date as the passenger plane was hit explaining where the one they hit went!

[BillyStubbsTears]

Yargo

That's assuming those released tapes were kosher.

[Snods Shinpad 2]

in addition details of a Russian military press conference where they point out that the US had an experimental Satellite over the scene and invite them to release the data they have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bNPInuSqfs

It's a bit long winded but here it is.

Amazing how quickly and with such certainty our media and politicians seem to have come to conclusions with little evidence being offered.

Anyone seen the pictures doing the rounds which supposedly show a Russian seperatist stealing a ring from the crash site? What's to say he wasn't recovering valuables for safe keeping? Is it even a ring anyway? It could be a bloody Ukrainian hoola-hoop for all the picture shows.

It smacks of black propaganda. I imagine Pravda are running pictures of that Sky reporter rummaging through suitcases with the tagline 'Agent of the west caught stealing/ tampering with evidence'.

Who knows what to believe. I certainly don't trust our politicians and security services, or Russia's.

[Yargo]

Those nasty USA  didn't land on the moon it was all filmed in the Nevada desert,strange how Russian scientists now use mirrors placed there in the 70's by astronauts to measure the rate the moon is moving away from us? So says Brian Cox anyway,perhaps the floppy haired Manc is in on it eh?http://www.newrepublic.com/node/118782
Anyway im off to Cleggy