Viking Supporters Co-operative
Viking Chat => Viking Chat => Topic started by: DonnyOsmond on May 07, 2017, 10:43:46 am
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I put it down to the players .
Still can't belive the tripe that was served up in front of me for 70 odd mins untill I switched off and hit the bottle at 1> 1 .
Only the keeper and copps looked good for me rest were all over the place or not putting a full shift in.
Iam not one for wanting the manager out as promotion is the main objective ,but that will not take away how gutted i feal .
The question is can ferggie learn from the end of this season.
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Please let us not forget that the quest for the title was a very clear and unambiguous objective of Ferguson. He pressed this point very hard after promotion was secured. After announcing this objective, the performances have, almost without exception, been absolutely and utterly risible.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
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Please let us not forget that the quest for the title was a very clear and unambiguous objective of Ferguson. He pressed this point very hard after promotion was secured. After announcing this objective, the performances have, almost without exception, been absolutely and utterly risible.
So are we looking at his motivational skills then?
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That's what it points to. As I've said elsewhere, there is a reason that man is yet to win a league title.
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That's what it points to. As I've said elsewhere, there is a reason that man is yet to win a league title.
This regular highlighting of Ferguson's lack of titles is interesting when it comes to gauging our fans' expectations. He may not have won any league titles but he has four promotions. We have to bear in mind that we're Doncaster Rovers and, if and when the job comes up in future, I doubt Antonio Conte will be falling over himself to apply.
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That's what it points to. As I've said elsewhere, there is a reason that man is yet to win a league title.
This regular highlighting of Ferguson's lack of titles is interesting when it comes to gauging our fans' expectations. He may not have won any league titles but he has four promotions. We have to bear in mind that we're Doncaster Rovers and, if and when the job comes up in future, I doubt Antonio Conte will be falling over himself to apply.
He blew a six point lead over second and 10 over third when one win would've done it. It was as good as ours. It may be that "we're Doncaster Rovers" (not sure what your point is with that) but he should never have blown this. He's stubborn as f**k and makes irrational decisions at times (and Peterborough fans will back me up on this) and he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes.
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I don't deny that the capitulation has been really disappointing and leaves a lot to think about in terms of getting us ready for the new season. But we can't disregard what got us into that position in the first place. This has been our only really disappointing sequence of results over the course of the whole season. Our form at any other time would have clinched the title but we blew it when it was ours for the taking. That's particularly frustrating but Brighton fell away similarly after securing promotion. It shouldn't take away from a successful season where our main objective was achieved early.
Any criticism of Ferguson for our recent slump should be balanced with credit where it's due for the fact we bounced back at the first attempt and won promotion early. If we got rid of him on the basis that we need to attract a manager with a better track record of winning league titles, then I suspect we may be in for a frustrating recruitment period.
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But we can't disregard what got us into that position in the first place.
And we can't disregard the fact that the manager let the players slip out of doing the things that got us into that position. Yes, the players have to take some of the blame, but he is responsible for managing the team.
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By his own terms he has failed this season. His target was 2 points per game.
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By his own terms he has failed this season. His target was 2 points per game.
Promotion was achieved , when after loosing our opening game and with injuries piling up and also discovering our first choice keeper was a joke we all thought this isn't going to be easy . DF is going to admit he was lucky at the end ,had this bad spell had come a few games earlier we my have only got into the play offs .
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Who signed that joke of a keeper?
He's said enough times what his target has been. He's missed it. I expect HR will call him in on Monday morning.
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Missed penalties cost us!!
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Combination of all of those things. Mixed messages from Fergie when letting the players (and club) celebrate before the entire job was done, and tinkering with the team.
The work rate and determination in our last 4 games wasn't there and our big game players didn't produce.
Still, it's made it easier for Fergie to sort the wheat from the chaff!
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Who signed that joke of a keeper?
He's said enough times what his target has been. He's missed it. I expect HR will call him in on Monday morning.
We need a fishing emoji.
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It can't be anything other than both surely! The manager cannot put his boots on and be selected to play and the players don't pick the team!!
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Combination of all of those things. Mixed messages from Fergie when letting the players (and club) celebrate before the entire job was done, and tinkering with the team.
The work rate and determination in our last 4 games wasn't there and our big game players didn't produce.
Still, it's made it easier for Fergie to sort the wheat from the chaff!
At least he's learned a lot about his players.
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Who signed that joke of a keeper?
He's said enough times what his target has been. He's missed it. I expect HR will call him in on Monday morning.
We need a fishing emoji.
I'd prefer a trawling one.
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Who signed that joke of a keeper?
He's said enough times what his target has been. He's missed it. I expect HR will call him in on Monday morning.
We need a fishing emoji.
Do we? There's times when it seems madness to sack a manager but acceptance that he will take us no further is the sensible thing to do and in this case I think we're probably there. I was the biggest supporter of his appointment but he managed to make Paul Dickovs team worse, we entered this League having lost zero players bar the ones the club chose, easily the strongest in the League and collapsed in the worst way possible to win the title. Our motivation was dogshit last season and yet at a point when the players motivation should have been natural it evaporated again.
I've seen Rovers fans genuinely predicting the League 1 playoffs again next season which is no more mad than the idea of sacking Fergie. It'd take a bloody big clear out to even dream of seeing the play offs and one of the best chances of achieving that is clearing the gaffer of his duties first.
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If we were gonna do it it should've been Easter last year. No point getting rid now, even if he is a bit of a pillock.
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Managers leaving successful clubs is not a concept without precedent. Watford got rid of Jokanovic when he took them up to the Premier League, Bruce walked out on Hull and our own Brian Flynn was told thanks but no thanks.
Obviously the outcome of those three decisions varies, as do the motivating factors, but it's not such a crazy idea to tell Darren he's taken us as far as his abilities will allow.
Of course, that won't happen, but i'd be astonished if he can get us top half next season.
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Who signed that joke of a keeper?
He's said enough times what his target has been. He's missed it. I expect HR will call him in on Monday morning.
We need a fishing emoji.
Do we? There's times when it seems madness to sack a manager but acceptance that he will take us no further is the sensible thing to do and in this case I think we're probably there. I was the biggest supporter of his appointment but he managed to make Paul Dickovs team worse, we entered this League having lost zero players bar the ones the club chose, easily the strongest in the League and collapsed in the worst way possible to win the title. Our motivation was dogshit last season and yet at a point when the players motivation should have been natural it evaporated again.
I've seen Rovers fans genuinely predicting the League 1 playoffs again next season which is no more mad than the idea of sacking Fergie. It'd take a bloody big clear out to even dream of seeing the play offs and one of the best chances of achieving that is clearing the gaffer of his duties first.
You say about him taking over Dickov's squad and making it worse, but lets not forget Fergie is a manager who likes attacking football even if it leaves gaps at the back, he took over a squad that struggled at scoring goals and we expected that to work? Of course it didn't. This season he's brought in players that can play he's way in pre-season and we've gone up and other than Etheridge has got every signing spot on. I'd say he'll do well with signings again this Summer then we'll see how were looking around August.
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He got us relegated last season when it was comfortably in our hands to stay up.
He lost us the title this year when it was comfortably in our hands to win.
He got us promoted this season.
Mixed bag really. We have to admit.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
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He got us relegated last season when it was comfortably in our hands to stay up.
He lost us the title this year when it was comfortably in our hands to win.
He got us promoted this season.
Mixed bag really. We have to admit.
Never understood this theory.
Surely you've also got to give the manager credit in the first place to get into those positions.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
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One Item of DF's management has been his decision to bring off James Coppinger in quite a few matches ,this makes me wonder why he made him team captain as surely a team should look to its captain till the end for leadership ? Much better to make him club captain and say Tommy Rowe for team captain as he gives his all like Copps . DF's mind cannot be in sync with what he sees on the field .
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
Who is mr Daniels?
I know the psychologist he's a mate of mine,
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And he's been asked back again for next season
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One Item of DF's management has been his decision to bring off James Coppinger in quite a few matches ,this makes me wonder why he made him team captain as surely a team should look to its captain till the end for leadership ? Much better to make him club captain and say Tommy Rowe for team captain as he gives his all like Copps . DF's mind cannot be in sync with what he sees on the field .
Copps has tendinitis. Hasn't been able to complete full 90.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
Who is mr Daniels?
I know the psychologist he's a mate of mine,
Pass on my congratulations - he's doing a terrific job :ermm:
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I think, and this is based on nothing but my feelings, thats hes a bit of a clever t**t, and each season when he thinks the jobs done he has gobbed off to the players regards who's going and who's staying? Both times the effect has been a collapse in team spirit??
Honestly think he's a nasty little feker and cant help himself.
What else could affect results from both sets of players each season so dramatically?
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The collapse last season happened from January to the beginning of April though.
We actually picked up after the players were told about their futures
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
Who is mr Daniels?
I know the psychologist he's a mate of mine,
Pass on my congratulations - he's doing a terrific job :ermm:
I agree,
Helped transform a side that couldn't win a game to a side that for the majority of the season couldn't lose a game
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Now people are calling Fergie a nasty person. :lol:
He'll be blamed for the holocaust next.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
Who is mr Daniels?
I know the psychologist he's a mate of mine,
Pass on my congratulations - he's doing a terrific job :ermm:
I agree,
Helped transform a side that couldn't win a game to a side that for the majority of the season couldn't lose a game
For the last two years we've lost our bottle big time at key stages of the season. He can join old Dazza in the 'failed my targets club'.
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I hope we don't get into another bad run of results then.
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Listening to Mr Daniels on Radio Sheffield after yesterday's debacle he was of the opinion that a Psychologist was needed for next season. Considering the performance over the last matches I tend to agree.
We already have one, have done for 2 years now
He probably meant a replacement?
Who is mr Daniels?
I know the psychologist he's a mate of mine,
Pass on my congratulations - he's doing a terrific job :ermm:
I agree,
Helped transform a side that couldn't win a game to a side that for the majority of the season couldn't lose a game
For the last two years we've lost our bottle big time at key stages of the season. He can join old Dazza in the 'failed my targets club'.
I'm sure "dazza" has achieved his target
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http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/sport/football/doncaster-rovers/doncaster-rovers-it-ll-drive-me-mad-if-we-don-t-win-title-admits-darren-ferguson-1-8508150
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Not all his targets obviously.
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Getting a bit silly now lads,
What's your arguement? Ferguson didn't want to win the title? Ferguson should have played injured players?
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Just pointing out that Ferguson didn't achieve all his targets.
Is that the truth or not?
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I've no idea what his other targets were other than promotion
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Well you obviously didn't read the link posted by RedJ or more likely, have chosen to ignore it to continue the banal arguments.
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I did read it, he wanted to win the title, which is pretty obvious seeing as he is our manager. I wouldn't really expect him to say I want Plymouth to win the title.
But because we didn't doesn't mean he's failed to meet one of the targets set at the beginning of the season does it.
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Surely wanting to achieve something is setting a target... f**k me.
And by failing to achieve said thing he's failed to hit one of his targets.
I'm sure you argue for the sake of it sometimes. How you can argue that not winning the league when he explicitly said he wants to do just that isn't failing to hit one of his targets is just well beyond my comprehension.
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I'm sure every manager in the league at one point or another wanted to win the league. Should they all lose their jobs now?
The only aim at the beginning of the season was promotion.
Brighton have properly f**ked up the title, probably worse than us. I wonder if their boards are full of all this negativity?
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I'm sure every manager in the league at one point or another wanted to win the league. Should they all lose their jobs now?
The only aim at the beginning of the season was promotion.
Brighton have properly f**ked up the title, probably worse than us. I wonder if their boards are full of all this negativity?
You might be surprised:
http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?351936-Hughton-s-defensive-tactics
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I'm sure every manager in the league at one point or another wanted to win the league. Should they all lose their jobs now?
The only aim at the beginning of the season was promotion.
1) Not every manager in the league has been in a position of being 6 points ahead of their nearest rivals, 10 points ahead of 3rd place and still ended up 3rd, after having more than one chance at sealing it, and even for the majority of the final game of the season having a hand on the trophy.
2) Can we drop this b*llocks? as I've said elsewhere, we are no longer in August, at the start of the season, so what we would've felt then is meaningless.
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Now I'm not arguing here because I'm equally as baffled about our poor shows since Mansfield as anyone, but surely Ferguson should receive some praise for getting us in a position of being 6 points ahead of their nearest rivals, and 10 points ahead of 3rd place, prior to the slump?
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Of course. But equally should be criticised for blowing such a position.
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Yes, he should, but you could also consider the other side of the argument that because he was the first manager in the entire football league to get his team promoted (a feat that should receive great praise in itself), he had to keep his side focused longer.
On that basis, you could say he was too successful, too quickly.
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Exactly Bentley, I've never understood this point of view. Criticising a manager for being in such a good position but then letting it slip.
Very rare anyone points out the manager should be also credited for getting us in such a good position in the first place
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Were you praising Ferguson when we got relegated, because, at the end of the day, he did get us up to 11th in January?
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If we end up long term in a better position with Fergie than when he started who gives a f**k about one relegation.
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Just to add to my post above I do like his style and a nasty side is required when dealing with the classroom that is a squad. Just feel he keeps it the right side of things then lets rip once the job is perceived to be done. A bit like Gavins dad or his own. A manager and assistant with fiery manager /dads??
Im very pro Ferguson. Just cant make sense of the last two season ends.
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If we end up long term in a better position with Fergie than when he started who gives a f**k about one relegation.
If.
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Were you praising Ferguson when we got relegated, because, at the end of the day, he did get us up to 11th in January?
He deserved some praise for getting us from bottom to 11th yes
But people who say how can we get relegated from such a good position, forget that it was the same manager that got us into that good position.
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Sorry but what sort of logic is that? he got us relegated in disastrous fashion but it's fine cos he got us up to 11th before we imploded?
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Nobody is saying it's fine. But the arguement came up with Dickov and it came up with Ferguson.
"They got us relegated from a great position" like it's a bad thing they got us into that great position, like it would be ok if we'd been shit all season,
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But it means the square root of f**k all getting into a position if you're going to blow it. He blew safety last year in the most horrific manner, and he's completely blown the title race this season. But it's fine cos he managed to get us up to 11th before we collapsed...
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RedJ, don't bother mate, really.
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Yeah, just carry on moaning about your club being promoted
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Yeah, just carry on moaning about your club being promoted
Just to put this to bed and you in a position where you understand what we are saying, we are happy with getting promoted but not happy at squandering a title winning opportunity.
Now let that sink in before coming back with more twaddle.
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Nobody is happy at squandering the title, but most rationale supporters aren't acting like silly little kids blaming it on all sorts of nonsense.
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And saying "look he got us to 11th" before going on a losing streak of 17 before getting us relegated is obviously rational...
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Can't really say want I want to say on here as it won't get published.
I've backed Fergie after last season's demise, and all through this season but, WTF was that. Nobody else to blame but him. I didn't put a forecast on the DPL page as I couldn't put us down for a defeat, as I new it was coming. These players need to look at themselves and apologise to the fans for letting them down big style.
Fergies substitutions in those games have left me with a very bitter taste in my mouth.
We needed a couple of players for next season, after the last few games I belive we need around 5/6.
As for signing Mason, I can only see him as a bit player. He cannot defend to save his life, he's had a couple of decent displays in holding midfield until it got a bit physical. That role is for big Mac and Houghton. We desperately need a left back a big commanding C/B. How we need somebody in the middle who can tackle as we've been over run far to many times this season.
I hope he gets us the players he needs to get us in the top half of the table and so the fans can have some faith in him.
PS.
I HAD CHELSEA. NEWCASTLE. SHEFFIELD UNITED. LINCOLN. CELTIC and US to win their leagues. Didn't want to pay my mortgage off anyway.
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I tell you what about Ferguson. There is not a single player in that side with any genuine pace. Very rare these days you see teams get promoted without at least a touch of pace here and there. Queues at Centreplate kiosks move quicker than nigh on all our players.
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And saying "look he got us to 11th" before going on a losing streak of 17 before getting us relegated is obviously rational...
I've never said that,
Just pointed out the argument "he got us relegated from such a good position" is a daft one.
I've never said the sentence you've quoted
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I tell you what about Ferguson. There is not a single player in that side with any genuine pace. Very rare these days you see teams get promoted without at least a touch of pace here and there. Queues at Centreplate kiosks move quicker than nigh on all our players.
Marty Blair!!
One of the fastest players I've seen in a rovers shirt
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Often struggles to get behind full back. Exeter was case in point. Not saying he is bad player at all, but he doesn't have genuine pace in way someone like Tyson did.
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He's being played full back though, there's been many games this season when he's played further upfield where he's destroyed full backs with his pace.
The late winner v Barnet being a case in point
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And saying "look he got us to 11th" before going on a losing streak of 17 before getting us relegated is obviously rational...
I've never said that,
Just pointed out the argument "he got us relegated from such a good position" is a daft one.
I've never said the sentence you've quoted
That's what you implied. That he must be good because he got us to 11th. Despite the fact that the team fell apart for reasons everyone but him could see.
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At the end of the day Fergie admitted that he stubbornly continued with a system that wasn't working. With hindsight given the chance he would have changed it.
When the dust has settled I'm sure that he will look back on these last five games the same way.
What's done is done, we should just learn from it and move on.
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You make a good point Idler but sadly he seemed to have learned nothing from the collapse at the end of last season. Let us all hope that it is third time lucky next season and we don't spend the last half dozen games staring at the clouds.
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You make a good point Idler but sadly he seemed to have learned nothing from the collapse at the end of last season. Let us all hope that it is third time lucky next season and we don't spend the last half dozen games staring at the clouds.
The collapse wasn't at the end of last season. It was halfway through the season. The last 5 or 6 games were good.
All be it too late, but people keep saying two years on the trot the last 5/6 games have been terrible which simply isn't the case
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You make a good point Idler but sadly he seemed to have learned nothing from the collapse at the end of last season. Let us all hope that it is third time lucky next season and we don't spend the last half dozen games staring at the clouds.
I haven't read back through, but taking that point I assume there's a disagreement over the fact that I think we won two and drew two of our last five games last season, thus essentially arresting the slump that preceded it. The good form kind of followed into the first 41 games of this season, before a very frustrating capitulation. Had we ended this season anything like the way we ended last season (looking purely at the snapshot people are rightly upset about) we would be champions.
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Exactly Jonathan
People are re-writing history just to prove their points
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You make a good point Idler but sadly he seemed to have learned nothing from the collapse at the end of last season. Let us all hope that it is third time lucky next season and we don't spend the last half dozen games staring at the clouds.
I haven't read back through, but taking that point I assume there's a disagreement over the fact that I think we won two and drew two of our last five games last season, thus essentially arresting the slump that preceded it. The good form kind of followed into the first 41 games of this season, before a very frustrating capitulation. Had we ended this season anything like the way we ended last season (looking purely at the snapshot people are rightly upset about) we would be champions.
OK, he changed the system to late by his own admission. He said that he didn't have the players to play the system that he wanted and was trying to play. This made it all the more galling when finally after changing to a back four we improved.
It is history now but hopefully his stubbornness will be a thing of the past.
It's great to be promoted but the icing was well and truly taken off the cake in our last five games. I feel that our players had enough confidence and ability which somehow made it harder for them rather than easier. We had better players in those games but a worse team than the opposition.
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If.
If you can keep your head when players about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it all on you,
If you can trust yourself when your supporters doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can dream of success—and work to make your dreams come true;
And think 'win' even when you're down—and strive to see your thoughts through;
If you can know you've given everything when the final whistle blew;
Yet aim to give even more next game, no more can be asked of you;
If you can fill each unforgiving minute of the ninety;
With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Game, and everything that’s in it,
And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!
with apologies to Rudyard Kipling.
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Stubbornness is an innate characteristic, let me tell you...
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Arrogance cost us last season and this with the manager. He talks a good game and says he will learn from his mistakes in my opinion to learn from mistakes you firstly have to believe you made one in the first place-i don't think he blames himself for anything so hasn't learned a thing.
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........waiting for some dickos logic here.........
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Listen to his interview this week, where he states he made a mistake with the Hartlepool line up
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Perhaps worth a thought how he threw away that six point lead and massive goal difference advantage from five games previously rather than pondering a cack handed team selection on the final day of the season when the outcome was out of our hands already?
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Ha ha
You are funny you lot,
Sammy said he never admits a mistake, I'm just pointing out he only admitted a mistake this week.
So then one of the "don't like fergie whatever he does" mob try and change the arguement of which they had no involvement in.