'Our fan' base.

[NickDRFC]

It is tribal /societal . I  have lived outside Uk for 50 years  and have not encountered  such phenomena in the social environments  in Belgium France and Italy and Spain . There are other issues which polarise tribal behaviour in football in those countries too but it is not so crassly vulgar.
 Why are rugby crowds in UK so different in their behaviour  too ; an interesting issue . 

Agreed with the differences with the rugby crowds. My brother and I were at Murrayfiled on Saturday, both wearing England shirts. We were the only English fans in our area and were vocally supporting England, singing Swing Low and so on, and didn't have any trouble whatsoever. After the game we even shook hands with 7-8 people around us who we'd had a bit of back and forth with before the game. Both before and after the game we must have been in 6-7 different pubs with mostly Scotland fans but plenty of English, as well as a few Welsh & Irish fans, and it was great fun.

I don't like the generalisation that there seems to be that football fans are thugs and rugby fans are gentlemen, but my experience on Saturday seemingly couldn't be more different to those posting on this thread.

[Donnywolf]

Good for you. It is pleasant to visit Castle Park for exactly that reason. No unpleasantness but you can still be Partisan

They call the Ref sir as well - something I can never do at Rovers games. (usually begins with a K if anyone does not sit within earshot of U641)

[Copps is Magic]

There's a marked difference in which match you attend. An away game in a provincial backwater, the rowdiest thing you see is a gnome being passed around. Bigger away games and you get marginals coked up to the rooftop who only usually exit their mother's basement to collect tab-ends.

[Campsall rover]

I definitely think there's a general deterioration of 'standards' in society. Manners, respect, tolerance and a social responsibility. It's all me, me, me now and don't give a flying f**k about anyone or anything else and someone will clear up the sh*t afterwards.

Let's be right, there's always been d**kheads, teenage angst etc, etc, but there was respect knowing your place, and being prepared to take the consequences if you got it wrong.

I can't see anything improving soon and god help us, if these morons are the next generation of parents.

Thankfully there's still enough 'good' people about to enjoy occasions like Saturday overall but it's getting harder to remain tolerant.

The problem is as you say Respect. It’s gone. No discipline in the home, no discipline at school.
That is not all homes or all schools of course. But if parents don’t draw a line at home as to what is acceptable behaviour and language then those kids will not grow up knowing what is right and what is wrong. It starts in the home and society has gone soft. If children are allowed a free for all by their parents as so many are today then they grow up not having any respect for them and consequently absolutely no respect for any other people or their possessions.
It is a society problem and football is used as platform to show off all their indiscipline to the maximum. Tribalism in all its glory.

[redandwhitewizard]

Been reading this thread with a keen interest and having just walked 9 miles in snow flurries I consider my mind is clear enough  to offer my 2 penath. Right, Rovers regular since circa '76, season ticket holder since 1998 (that was a statement of defiance facing the prospect of the conference and also the year I acquired my 1 and only tattoo, the Rovers badge). I attended the NYS with my 22 yr old son and an armchair Leeds fan who is a close relative of a current Rovers player, I regret to add that my 19 yr old son who had held a season tkt since age 3 has not attended a Rovers game since Barnsley away 2 seasons ago where the antics of Rovers 'fans' simply embarrassed him to the point Rovers have lost him for good. Anyhow, the game on Satdi, having regularly baited said Rovers relative for many years over the vagaries of the significant minority at Leeds, I was left dumbfounded, exasperated and truly embarrassed at what I witnessed. From the mother/grandmother (It  can be difficult to know with some families) who actively encouraged primary aged boys and girls to participate in the vile invective (yes including the pedo offerings), to the  mid 30s idiot who kicked the backs of seats and spat vile abuse at any who dare reason with him including a gent who was trying to protect his 8ish yr old son from the worst of the excess, to the utterly mindless d**khead who proudly proclaimed that alcohol sales were being withdrawn 'because they can't handle us'. In fact as my son was very succinct in his observation that the opposite was actually the case and it was because far too large a minority were unable to handle/conduct themselves and so for their own and others safety no more booze. They were treat like children because they were behaving like spoiled children. I am far from a prude, despite attending uni I cut my teeth in Dunscroft, Hatfield, Stainy, Thorne and Armthorpe. I have never been a fighter, preferring to rely on my wit and humour and have raised my lads the same way. So how do I explain to this armchair fan who was beginning to see the light that those scenes were not the norm. i'm totally gutted and given my elder sons reaction to the events something needs to change quickly or others will lose the faith 

[LincsRover]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

[Copps is Magic]

Except there has to be some defense, LincsRover, because these people don't represent the club. As a number of the critical posters on this thread have pointed out - some of these faces have not been seen at a rovers game before and probably never again. I encountered the same at the first game of last season at Accrington. Some absolute nob cheese giving Etheridge absolute dogs abuse from 2 meters away - a guy I've never seen at a rovers game before or since.

And let's not associate the actions of some mongrels with standing. Two different debates.

[Nudga]

I've stopped going, can't be doing with people barging my 9 year old boy into a concrete wall so that they can get out if the stadium 5 seconds quicker.
That and the in fighting and also what's been posted above.
The funny banter has gone, it's just constant abuse of anyone and everyone. Not my idea of fun so I don't waste money on it now.

[Axholme Lion]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

[Axholme Lion]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

[Filo]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Did you drag her by her hair, with a club in your other hand? 😀

[Axholme Lion]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Did you drag her by her hair, with a club in your other hand? 😀

How did you know that?

[Filo]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Did you drag her by her hair, with a club in your other hand? 😀

How did you know that?

An educated guess

I remember the Millwall Bushwackers

https://youtu.be/vKoYjOGOzXQ

[Axholme Lion]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Did you drag her by her hair, with a club in your other hand? 😀

How did you know that?

An educated guess

I remember the Millwall Bushwackers

https://youtu.be/vKoYjOGOzXQ

A long time ago now. There's still an intimidating atmosphere from the fans, but that's all it is nowadays.

[Glyn_Wigley]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Go on then, tell us all how effective the self-policing of the use of smoke bombs is going.

Oh, and would the 'swearing and stuff' that it seems you're not too worried about include the shouting of 'paedo' that you also seemed not to be worried about in that thread you started?

[andysly]

Axholme Lion wasn’t it Millwall fans fighting like f**k amongst themselves at Wembley a couple of years ago ?

[Axholme Lion]

Axholme Lion wasn’t it Millwall fans fighting like f**k amongst themselves at Wembley a couple of years ago ?

Day trippers probably. Not likely to be the type to go to Hull or the like on a Tuesday night.

[Axholme Lion]

If they were all youths/teenagers I could understand and potentially forgive - we all get older and many grow up responsibly. However many of the venom spitting, selfish, ignorant b*st*rds we’re over 30, some I’d say over 40/50 as well. With them showing the younger ones how to behave I despair that it will only get worse.

I hate to sound like my dad, but if we ended up in another WW2 we’d be f*ck*d as a nation because there are too many selfish, state reliant wasters who just wouldn’t turn up. My war hero grandad must be doing somersaults in his grave having won freedom for these pr*cks to live lives unshackled from any responsibility and common decency.

I note the lack of the usual defenders of such behaviour - the “stand and sing all game or don’t bother turning up, even if you’ve supported rovers for 50years” brigade. Perhaps some of them are starting to see that behaviour like this is just not normal! One can only hope but I won’t be holding my breath!

 

Despite what everyone thinks about Millwall due to the odd bit of agg in the past, this wouldn't have happened at our games because we have respect for each other and if anyone didn't then we'd sort it out amongst ourselves.

Bullshit.

So how many Wall away matches have you been to? I'm writing of my personal experience not what i've been told on Sky or read in the Sun.
Believe what you want. My Mrs used to think the same as you due to all the tales about us but she was amazed at how well behaved and polite most people were when i eventually dragged her to a game, apart from the swearing and stuff.

Go on then, tell us all how effective the self-policing of the use of smoke bombs is going.

Oh, and would the 'swearing and stuff' that it seems you're not too worried about include the shouting of 'paedo' that you also seemed not to be worried about in that thread you started?

No smoke bombs at Burton on Saturday. I was referring to how we treat each other, such as not knocking old folk, women and kids out of the way in a selfish manner.

[Filo]

Axholme Lion wasn’t it Millwall fans fighting like f**k amongst themselves at Wembley a couple of years ago ?

Day trippers probably. Not likely to be the type to go to Hull or the like on a Tuesday night.

Were they day trippers at Upton Park in that Cup Game?

[Not Now Kato]

Axholme Lion wasn’t it Millwall fans fighting like f**k amongst themselves at Wembley a couple of years ago ?

It was, in the FA Cup Semi Final against Wigan.  I was there.

[ravenrover]

I wouldn’t get dewy eyed about the past. The lad who lived next door to me 40 years ago used to drop bricks off a bridge over the Don onto the old disco boat. Another lad at 15 ripped a school bus seat base off its mountngs and threw it out the window onto a car. There’s always been sociopathic kids in every society.

I do think there were structures in place to tame the wild ones as they grew up. The pit, the union, the miners’ welfare and working men’s clubs, the associated sports teams. They gave a structure and a discipline. Gave people opportunities to work and play and learn discipline and reward. And threatened a clip round the f**king ear hole if you acted like a prick. Those structures have mostly evaporated now and I’m not sure that Twitter and Facebook are replacing them in a positive way.

Don't know if I am a lot older than you BST but I was never threatened with a clip round the earhole I used to get one, and when I got home I'd get another one  usually because the person who gave me the 1st one knew my Dad. That for me is amajor difference, because you tended to stay and play/socialise in an area close to your home everyone knew everyone else, was a relative or worked with your parents, in my case my Dad at the pit. Discipline was dished out when merited and a good hiding didn't do me any harm but the worse was the phsycological threat from my Mum, "just wait till your Dad comes home" the hours of dreading hearing the whistling and the back door opening and knowing what would be shortly coming your way!

[Filo]

I wouldn’t get dewy eyed about the past. The lad who lived next door to me 40 years ago used to drop bricks off a bridge over the Don onto the old disco boat. Another lad at 15 ripped a school bus seat base off its mountngs and threw it out the window onto a car. There’s always been sociopathic kids in every society.

I do think there were structures in place to tame the wild ones as they grew up. The pit, the union, the miners’ welfare and working men’s clubs, the associated sports teams. They gave a structure and a discipline. Gave people opportunities to work and play and learn discipline and reward. And threatened a clip round the f**king ear hole if you acted like a prick. Those structures have mostly evaporated now and I’m not sure that Twitter and Facebook are replacing them in a positive way.

Don't know if I am a lot older than you BST but I was never threatened with a clip round the earhole I used to get one, and when I got home I'd get another one  usually because the person who gave me the 1st one knew my Dad. That for me is amajor difference, because you tended to stay and play/socialise in an area close to your home everyone knew everyone else, was a relative or worked with your parents, in my case my Dad at the pit. Discipline was dished out when merited and a good hiding didn't do me any harm but the worse was the phsycological threat from my Mum, "just wait till your Dad comes home" the hours of dreading hearing the whistling and the back door opening and knowing what would be shortly coming your way!

My Mum had an ornamental camel whip which my Gran fetched back from a holiday to Morrocco, it was n't hung on the wall like most people did with them, my mum used it to give me and my brother a good hiding with it

[drfchound]

It is tribal /societal . I  have lived outside Uk for 50 years  and have not encountered  such phenomena in the social environments  in Belgium France and Italy and Spain . There are other issues which polarise tribal behaviour in football in those countries too but it is not so crassly vulgar.
 Why are rugby crowds in UK so different in their behaviour  too ; an interesting issue . 

Agreed with the differences with the rugby crowds. My brother and I were at Murrayfiled on Saturday, both wearing England shirts. We were the only English fans in our area and were vocally supporting England, singing Swing Low and so on, and didn't have any trouble whatsoever. After the game we even shook hands with 7-8 people around us who we'd had a bit of back and forth with before the game. Both before and after the game we must have been in 6-7 different pubs with mostly Scotland fans but plenty of English, as well as a few Welsh & Irish fans, and it was great fun.

I don't like the generalisation that there seems to be that football fans are thugs and rugby fans are gentlemen, but my experience on Saturday seemingly couldn't be more different to those posting on this thread.

It appears that not all rugby fans are the well behaved people that they are sometimes made out to be.
The verbal and physical abuse afforded to Eddie Jones after the Scotland v England game is nothing to be proud of.

[ravenrover]

Pissed up Scots yes, rugby fans? I doubt it

[Glyn_Wigley]

Pissed up Scots yes, rugby fans? I doubt it

If they weren't rugby fans, how come they recognised him? I'm English and have no idea what he looks like, but then I'm not a rugby fan.

[drfchound]

Pissed up Scots yes, rugby fans? I doubt it

We don’t know that they are not rugby fans either do we.
Probably England fans pissed off at losing the game.

[ravenrover]

Correct we don't know that they were or were not rugby fans which is why I said I doubt it, but English fans with broad Scottish accents mmm

[drfchound]

Yep, the legend goes on then.
No rugby fans are going to cause any bother, what a nice bunch of chaps.

[German Rover]

Yep, the legend goes on then.
No rugby fans are going to cause any bother, what a nice bunch of chaps.

Rugby union fans don't need segregation to stop them ripping each other's heads off.