An electric vehicle that looks like the future

[glosterred]

If you’re still thinking about buying an electric car, this article will be of interest to you

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2022/05/24/electric-car-revolution-needs-honest-data-to-avoid-consumer-backlash/?sh=3f64608754d3

[albie]

The price of EV will fall with production at scale, and reductions in battery costs.

It is true that models currently on sale in the UK are expensive, but it is not true in China, for example.
Market analysts expect this to move very quickly now take up is increasing across Europe.

The range question is really about consumer anxiety, and assumptions about how people use their vehicle.
Very few journeys are long end to end trips, requiring a recharge en route.

The installation of charging points will answer this problem. With a UK growth rate of 26% last year, this is not a worry which will persist;
https://twitter.com/colinmckerrache/status/1527200333713260546/photo/1

The sales figures across Europe show that the tipping point has been reached in many locations, and the industry is moving to that new  business model.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Very fair points in that article. The range on motorways is really quite poor and drops off considerably the faster you go, but it's more complex than that, there's a number of factors aswell.  Still no doubt that the cost price of the vehicles is too high.

Worth noting that the production is still very slow. I still haven't got the one I ordered this time last year, though it is finally due in the next few weeks.  I've waited that long they've actually discontinued the model.

[normal rules]

With the nearing D year of 2030 approaching, I just cannot see this ban on new petrol/diesel working. I cannot see the price of electric cars coming down either, especially given the current economic climate that will hurt for a good few years yet.
Happy to be proved wrong of course.
The change in infrastructure has to be dramatic. And it just isn’t.
There are still fillings stations being built around the country with no charging points for electric cars, which is beggars belief.
Our local Tesco filling station, which is huge with about 20 pumps, is just undergoing a complete overhaul including full replacement of all the fuel tanks . No provision for electric cars at all. And the car park which holds about 400 cars when full has 4 yes 4 charging points. !
Our local Asda, similar size, has no charging points at all
Some may argue the trip to the local supermarket does not need a charging point . But consider those living in rural areas. You spend an hr in a supermarket. It’s the perfect time to charge your car.
I drive 80 mile round trip to work at Lincoln. The car park there probably holds a few hundred cars. There are no charging points for personal cars. None. And no plans to have any installed either.
Given this is a footy forum, consider an away day. In an electric car. In winter. With a car full of mates. Swindon, Newport, Crawley, Leyton orient, Colchester, Walsall, Carlisle. To name but a few. These are currently trips where unless you have a range busting EV, you are going to have anxieties around getting there. Trips that would take you 2-3 hrs will take you considerably longer if you have to stop to charge. Then there is the issue of actually getting a charging point that is free and working.

[danumdon]

Fair points NR, from my own perspective a full electric would just require too much prior planning at this time to enable me to feel i could fulfill all my requirements. The range and infrastructure is just not there yet. Ive had a hybrid car for a couple of years now, BMW 330e and its a great car but my first thought was that it would cost me £330 a month in BIK less than the diesel version i had previously. The car on electric mode, though only short (high 20ish in good conditions)is nice but it does tend to be petrol mostly as I'm a bit lax in charging the thing.
Like you i feel the supposed big changeover date is still a bit premature but if they do ever sort out the main issues with the economy, build the infrastructure, get the range to something more akin to a ICE car then i could see it eventually taking off.

I still think the initial cost and the strength of the secondhand market for EV's is still something to work on.

[normal rules]

If , and it’s a big if, I ever take the dip into the ev market it will be for an older gen Prius. There is a booming market in the USA already for re balanced, regenerated batteries that you plop in and out of these cars. They are not the most attractive car on the market but who cares. A rebalanced battery in the us costs around $1500. There are YouTube vids showing how they are installed which looks easy too. It’s only a matter of time before a whole garage industry is set up in the uk doing this.I just wish they would build more Ev’s that have removable batteries. Not ones where the power packs are almost integral to the chassis. But we know why they do that don’t we?

[River Don]

In all honesty I do not know what to do about my next car.

I still have pretty low mileage on the one I have now, I've kind of decided to keep running it as long as possible to put off the decision.

In itself keeping an old car going is quite green. The car you have now is probably the greenest, given the energy that goes into building a new one.

[River Don]

I'm just wondering at what point driving instructors shift over to electric?

An electric is like driving a dodgem, do you just get a licence for electrics and automatics?

When we are no longer training people to use gears and a clutch is that it for proper cars?

[selby]

  The crunch will come with the private owners at present with EV's in about four or five years time when they realise they own something that is worthless, needs expensive batteries replaced, and the second hand dealerships will give no guarantee on the batteries.
  The hire companies will get rid at two or three years old and pass the problem on. I read a report from America that said batteries on new EV's lost 7% to 15% of their rechargeable power in the first twelve months affecting range when in daily use.
  There could well be a diesel gate legal battle to come for the car industry that could dwarf the original court case involving EV's in years to come in my opinion and governments could well be dragged into it because of their legislation imposing change that could well turn out to be faulty.

[Janso]

I've been driving an electric Hyundai Kona since March. Love it. Not had any issues with charging on public chargers so far, and it's probably the nicest drive I've ever had.

If you can afford it, look into Onto. All-inclusive 750 miles a month and you can buy mileage bolt ons to up that, includes free charging at the major networks other than Gridserve (which annoyingly is at most services, but InstaVolt are everywhere so not really an issue).

I've got a referral code 2db8b that'll get you £50 off your first month if anyone's fussed.

[River Don]

Ah yes, the old referral code 2db8b.

That fills me with confidence for a start.

[normal rules]

In all honesty I do not know what to do about my next car.

I still have pretty low mileage on the one I have now, I've kind of decided to keep running it as long as possible to put off the decision.

In itself keeping an old car going is quite green. The car you have now is probably the greenest, given the energy that goes into building a new one.

Car ownership is changing that’s for sure. Slowly but surely. The days of going out, for some and just buying what you like are slowly ebbing away. It’s about getting just what you need for your budget. My kids have grown up and moved away. I don’t need a big car to get about. The vehicle I have for towing may not be around for too long. It’s a 2.7 v6 diesel. I’m giving serious thought to ditching the caravan too.
My youngest son lives in London. He tells me they have been around for a while but there is a system in the city where cars can be rented per minute. All through an app. It’s called zipcar I think. There are zip vans too. Most are electric. His mate used one recently to pop to ikea to get some furniture. He found a car via the app. Logged on . Got the keys from the secure under car locker and drive it for a couple of hours before parking it back up. All insurance covered for his trip. Only paid for the time he used.
I can see this being a growth area, especially in urban areas.
 Car ownership in the coming years will become a luxury for many.

[Janso]

Ah yes, the old referral code 2db8b.

That fills me with confidence for a start.

I mean I'd recommend it even without a referral code if that's what's bothering you.

[normal rules]

I've been driving an electric Hyundai Kona since March. Love it. Not had any issues with charging on public chargers so far, and it's probably the nicest drive I've ever had.

If you can afford it, look into Onto. All-inclusive 750 miles a month and you can buy mileage bolt ons to up that, includes free charging at the major networks other than Gridserve (which annoyingly is at most services, but InstaVolt are everywhere so not really an issue).

I've got a referral code 2db8b that'll get you £50 off your first month if anyone's fussed.

I’m interested if you have it on pcp. What’s the predicted resale? Depreciation? Battery warranty?

[Janso]

I've been driving an electric Hyundai Kona since March. Love it. Not had any issues with charging on public chargers so far, and it's probably the nicest drive I've ever had.

If you can afford it, look into Onto. All-inclusive 750 miles a month and you can buy mileage bolt ons to up that, includes free charging at the major networks other than Gridserve (which annoyingly is at most services, but InstaVolt are everywhere so not really an issue).

I've got a referral code 2db8b that'll get you £50 off your first month if anyone's fussed.

I’m interested if you have it on pcp. What’s the predicted resale? Depreciation? Battery warranty?

I don't, I've got it on a monthly subscription which includes 750 miles, charging, insurance and maintenance. I'm looking at getting one on PCP though now I'm confident it suits my lifestyle.

[normal rules]

I've been driving an electric Hyundai Kona since March. Love it. Not had any issues with charging on public chargers so far, and it's probably the nicest drive I've ever had.

If you can afford it, look into Onto. All-inclusive 750 miles a month and you can buy mileage bolt ons to up that, includes free charging at the major networks other than Gridserve (which annoyingly is at most services, but InstaVolt are everywhere so not really an issue).

I've got a referral code 2db8b that'll get you £50 off your first month if anyone's fussed.

I’m interested if you have it on pcp. What’s the predicted resale? Depreciation? Battery warranty?

I don't, I've got it on a monthly subscription which includes 750 miles, charging, insurance and maintenance. I'm looking at getting one on PCP though now I'm confident it suits my lifestyle.

Dare I ask what this costs?

[River Don]

NR. Yes my brother in law uses Zipcar occasionally around London. I read BMW are looking into this kind of car rental.

You might well be right about car ownership becoming more of a luxury.

[normal rules]

Just had a look at the website. They have the electric version of my own car, the Vw e up. 750 miles all in £379 per month. But then it’s gets expensive. Very expensive.
The Vw id4 is an watering £900 a month.
They claim car tax is included in the cost lol. It’s zero tax ffs (for now but ev will be taxed soon for sure)

[normal rules]

Just looked at the Kona. £609 per month. Jesus Christ! The last pcp car I had was a brand new bmw 320d m sport. It cost me £379 a month on a 0% deal they had on new 3 series saloons in 2019.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Just looked at the Kona. £609 per month. Jesus Christ! The last pcp car I had was a brand new bmw 320d m sport. It cost me £379 a month on a 0% deal they had on new 3 series saloons in 2019.

Shop around you can get them cheaper, but they absolutely to me aren't worth buying.  Still great for company car drivers.

[River Don]

Double park – don’t lock the door
Push the pedals through the floor
Give it loads and then some more
It’s a hire car baby

Grip the stick – grind the gears
Watch that distance disappear
Never yours in a thousand years
It’s a hire car baby

Hire-car, hire-car
Why would anybody buy a car?
Bang it, prang it, say ta ta
It’s a hire car baby

Bad behaviour on the street
Save yourself a couple of sheets
Collision rate keeps it sweet
It’s a hire car baby

Show this motor no respect
Bump it, dump it, call collect
What else do the firm expect
It’s a hire car baby

Drive the f**ker anywhere
Just like you don’t care
Put it down to wear and tear
It’s a hire car baby

Pray the person who hired it last
Didn’t drive it quite so fast
This dakarum dodgem doesn’t last
It’s a hire car baby

Try not to kill yourself
Or injure anybody else
Don’t forget to fasten your belts

Rent it, dent it, bang it, prang it
Bump it, dump it, scorch it, torch it
Crash and burn it, don’t return it
Lost deposit, let ’em earn it
Who cares, it’s on the firm
It’s a hire car baby

[normal rules]

It will be interesting to see what petrol/ diesel new cars will be sold at in the uk in 2029. They will be sky high, or they will be giving them away.I suspect it won’t be the latter. Depends on the price of fuel I guess. Who wants a car that will cost £300 every time you need to fill up?

[Janso]

Just looked at the Kona. £609 per month. Jesus Christ! The last pcp car I had was a brand new bmw 320d m sport. It cost me £379 a month on a 0% deal they had on new 3 series saloons in 2019.

Yeah, sounds on the steep side, but then when you factor in the cost of fuel (or electric), insurance, maintenance costs that may crop up, it's not a million miles away. My parents have a Ford Kuga 2011 and we pay similar amounts when you add everything up.

[albie]

I think some on here are underestimating the pace of change in battery tech development;
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/tesla-battery-longevity-100-years-nickel-b2086913.html

This is just 1 example, as the sector moves to reduce costs by replacing the most expensive elements from the mix.
The Lithium Ion batteries of today will be replaced by new batteries very quickly as production ramps up.

[danumdon]

I tried to read your link but it kept asking me to answer questions from dodgy solicitors? but if what you state come to fruition then it would be a massive game changer, something that i think the EV campaign needs to change perceptions on this technology, lets hope something materialises from it.

[albie]

Yes, it looks like the link has been moved into the "premium" section on their site.

Same story here, but a shortened version;
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/tesla-works-on-next-generation-high-energy-density-battery-that-lasts-for-a-lifetime-189598.html

Not to over focus on Tesla, but to show that the battery sector is moving quickly.

[SydneyRover]

local news saying a new lithium mine is not far from producing supplies which will see a large drop in prices over the next couple of years but little detail so far.

[SydneyRover]

some good news

''Electric cars could get cheaper as a crucial component in them drops in price''

''"The price increases we saw with lithium over the last 12 months have actually resulted in battery costs increasing around 30 per cent."''

''By the end of next year, Credit Suisse now predicts the spot price to dive by half to  $US2,500 ($3,470) a tonne''

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-09/electric-cars-lithium-price-batteries-credit-suisse/101135860

[albie]

Going solid state, Syd;
https://www.wired.com/story/the-next-challenge-for-solid-state-batteries-making-lots-of-them/

Chinese looking at Q4 this year to roll out.

[SydneyRover]

Some years off yet Albie but the sooner the better.