Tackle poverty and inequality to reduce crime, says police chief

[SydneyRover]

''''Tackle poverty and inequality to reduce crime, says police chief'''

“The best crime prevention is increased opportunity and reduced poverty. That’s the best way to reduce crime. So there needs to be substantial funding into the infrastructure of our inner cities and our more deprived areas.

“Why do people get involved in crime and serious crime? It’s because the opportunities to make money elsewhere aren’t there for them. And never more so than in our inner cities and in our more difficult to police areas''

''Boris Johnson called working class men 'drunk, criminal and feckless''

There appears to be a party that wants to beat people into submission and then blame them for being there ................. it's well known what johnson thinks.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/18/tackle-poverty-and-inequality-to-reduce-says-police-chief

[Bentley Bullet]

Sydney, as a total outsider, what do you think of the human race?

[SydneyRover]

slippery simon strikes again

[keith79]

Education is the key. Imo.

[SydneyRover]

I agree education being part of a larger problem but if households can't put food on the table, can't get a job, can't get help and are abused by those in government what hope is there in trying to get kids to understand education can change things for them.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Back in the mid 80’s I spent some time volunteering with a youth organisation in East London. One of the aims of the organisation was to help to identify ways in which young men could be drawn away from crime. What I learned was that it’s an incredibly complex subject and there are many reasons why people move into a life of crime. In my view there isn’t a one size fits all answer.

I spent some time in Hoxton which nowadays is gentrified for the better and a nice place to live. Back in 1985/86 though it was like Dodge city. We met with groups of young men who were or had been involved in some forms of criminality during their lives. These discussions were inspiring and depressing in equal measure. For many there was almost an inevitability that they’d become career criminals. They were brought up in criminally minded families going back generations and that was all they knew and few of them were strong enough to break the mould and move on. For others it was a career choice having been brought up on depressed estates with a sense of worthlessness.. Others blamed a lack of male role models in their lives and others said they’d resorted to crime as they had genuinely never been taught right from wrong. Some of them actually got a thrill from it. One thing I found most interesting, and quite depressing though was that they had little respect for themselves or others. They compartmentalised everyone as either a friend, a threat or a potential victim. Many had them had little empathy for others and didn’t understand, nor care, about the impact of their actions. .

The final thing I remember was that almost all of them were very angry people. However, getting them to identify what they were angry at was impossible. Many of them had a rage that they found impossible to release, so it often leaked into violence.

So, I always take these sound bites with a pinch of salt. Undoubtedly, poverty plays a role, however it’s much more complex than that.

[Axholme Lion]

I agree education being part of a larger problem but if households can't put food on the table, can't get a job, can't get help and are abused by those in government what hope is there in trying to get kids to understand education can change things for them.

Can't work or won't work?

[BillyStubbsTears]

HA.

Have you seen how the statistics on violent crime across the developed world have fallen since the 1980s? There's been a massive drop everywhere.

Many people put it down to the banning of lead in petrol. There are studies that show an almost perfect correlation between the levels of lead in the atmosphere when people are kids, and the level of violent crime in society when those kids grow up.

I don't think there is any question that we are a much more violent society in the 1970s and 1980s. So there's a danger in using your experience from 30-40 years ago and applying it to today.

[Herbert Anchovy]

Billy

I’m not making any comparison between now and the 80’s. I agree that the 70’s and 80’s were more violent times than what we see now. When it comes to violence and crime, my own view is that it is more centralised to specific areas nowadays, whereas when I first came to London in 1980 you could quite easily get the shit kicked out of you and your wallet stolen in Covent Garden as you could in Hackney.

I was simply sharing my experience of why some people go down a path of criminality.

[Glyn_Wigley]

As HA says, there are a lot of contributory factors. But every little bit of fighting back against even one of those factors helps in the long run.

[normal rules]

Feckless, what a lovely word, a real gem in the English Language.

[GazLaz]

HA.

Have you seen how the statistics on violent crime across the developed world have fallen since the 1980s? There's been a massive drop everywhere.

Many people put it down to the banning of lead in petrol. There are studies that show an almost perfect correlation between the levels of lead in the atmosphere when people are kids, and the level of violent crime in society when those kids grow up.

I don't think there is any question that we are a much more violent society in the 1970s and 1980s. So there's a danger in using your experience from 30-40 years ago and applying it to today.

I’ve never heard that about the lead before. Surely it’s a case of correlation not necessarily meaning causation.

[BillyStubbsTears]

It's an interesting one Gaz. You're right of course that correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation, but the correlation is very strong. It covers two humps in lead concentrations (use of lead paint in the early C20th and then lead from petrol in the late C20th.

Some interesting background here.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/02/an-updated-lead-crime-roundup-for-2018/

[wilts rover]

Education is the key. Imo.

I was told by our headteacher when I asked what one single thing could be done to equalise the learning difference between different pupils at our primary school - more support to the parents. Children from poorer families generally do worse at school.

Education by itself is no answer when you have poverty and inequality among pupils.

[drfchound]

As HA says, there are a lot of contributory factors. But every little bit of fighting back against even one of those factors helps in the long run.

I fully agree with this.
It isn’t nearly as clear cut as the OP seems to be suggesting.

[SydneyRover]

As HA says, there are a lot of contributory factors. But every little bit of fighting back against even one of those factors helps in the long run.

This is the key to it all but if the government ignorantly thinks a large portion of the pop is feckless and don't want to work they won't tackle it. If people don't or cannot see themselves out there taking part in the world and being accepted then it's hard to see them having a go. There has to be opportunity and there has to guidance to break the cycle of generational povery,violence and crime, although in certain circumstances one can get to be PM even though they advocate violence.

[SydneyRover]

The government commissions a report on 'race' to see how the country stacks up, doesn't like what it hears and 'doctors' it to make it fit their agenda ............... and because it is ridiculed they then want an inquiry into a think tank that was critical of it ................. pure gold

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/20/tory-mps-demand-inquiry-runnymede-trust-thinktank-race-report-criticism-charity-commission

[SydneyRover]

johnson government grand announcement .............

''Boris Johnson to unveil £3bn bus sector shake-up to drive 'levelling up''

''The prime minister is unveiling a shake-up of the bus sector and planning lower, simpler flat fares in towns and cities, turn-up-and-go services on main routes, and new flexible services to reconnect communities.

The Department for Transport (DfT) said the strategy would see passengers across England benefiting from more frequent, more reliable, easier to use, better coordinated and cheaper bus services with the aim of encouraging more people to take the bus rather than drive''

On the ground in the real world around a month later .................

''Axing of 'lifeline' Derby bus service 'is heartrending'''

''A spokesperson for Derby City Council said: "The council did request funding from the Department for Transport, specifically to support the 17/17A but with many similar requests from around the country, there is not enough funding locally or centrally to support every service."''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/mar/15/boris-johnson-to-unveil-3bn-bus-sector-shake-up-to-drive-levelling-up

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-derbyshire-56816138

[Metalmicky]

That's a bit of a non-story really Syd....... they still have a service, it's just that Greg has to walk up to the top of his road now.  If it was an already subsidised service that was losing money, then I don't think any Government/Council could warrant wasting cash on it - especially when there are much needier causes. 

[SydneyRover]

You hit the nail on the head there MM a subsidised service, public transport should be free which would help many people, reduce pollution and reduce the need for crazy roadbuilding.

[ravenrover]

We used to have a bus service through the village that ran 4 times a day twice between 7 and 9 in the morning and twice between 4 and 6 in the evening, obviously designed for Nottingham city workers. It was packed on each run. For some mysterious reason, which we never got to know about, it was axed, the nearest bus stop now is and was then at the top of the village meaning a 20mins walk each way for those at the lower end of the village . What did the commuters do? Walk, not a chance out came the cars and they all drive to the park and ride now and get the tram, that's if they can find a parking space at the PandR. The bus service at the top of the village runs every 20mins all day and is empty most of the time but is obviously subsidised.
Now tell me the sense and logic in that?

[BillyStubbsTears]

Privatisation of bus services has been an absolute disaster, in terms of buses being run as a public service.

I moved to Sheffield 24 years ago. I live about 2 miles out of the city centre, in a very densely populated area.  When i moved here there were 14 buses an hour in the rush hour from the end of our road to the city centre. They were always packed. Single fare was 65p.

Today there are 4 buses an hour. They often go past stops in the morning because they are full. If I have a vital train to catch, I'll generally leave the house an hour before the train is due, to allow for missed or full buses. For a journey of 2 miles in what is probably one of the top 50 cities by size in Western Europe. The single fare is £2.

So that's an average annual increase in fares of 4.8%, over a period when inflation has typically been around 2% and a reduction in service of 70%. Shocking way to run a vital service.

And the consequence is that with the additional cars on the road, roads that used to be reasonably clear of traffic are now regularly backed up way over a mile from the city centre in rush hour.

[Axholme Lion]

Privatisation of bus services has been an absolute disaster, in terms of buses being run as a public service.

I moved to Sheffield 24 years ago. I live about 2 miles out of the city centre, in a very densely populated area.  When i moved here there were 14 buses an hour in the rush hour from the end of our road to the city centre. They were always packed. Single fare was 65p.

Today there are 4 buses an hour. They often go past stops in the morning because they are full. If I have a vital train to catch, I'll generally leave the house an hour before the train is due, to allow for missed or full buses. For a journey of 2 miles in what is probably one of the top 50 cities by size in Western Europe. The single fare is £2.

So that's an average annual increase in fares of 4.8%, over a period when inflation has typically been around 2% and a reduction in service of 70%. Shocking way to run a vital service.

And the consequence is that with the additional cars on the road, roads that used to be reasonably clear of traffic are now regularly backed up way over a mile from the city centre in rush hour.

What's a bus? Never see one around here. Is it like a big car that poor people travel in?

[Metalmicky]

We used to have a bus service through the village that ran 4 times a day twice between 7 and 9 in the morning and twice between 4 and 6 in the evening, obviously designed for Nottingham city workers. It was packed on each run. For some mysterious reason, which we never got to know about, it was axed, the nearest bus stop now is and was then at the top of the village meaning a 20mins walk each way for those at the lower end of the village . What did the commuters do? Walk, not a chance out came the cars and they all drive to the park and ride now and get the tram, that's if they can find a parking space at the PandR. The bus service at the top of the village runs every 20mins all day and is empty most of the time but is obviously subsidised.
Now tell me the sense and logic in that?

I can't understand it either - why didn't they just drive to the top of the village and get the bus from there.... no logic or sense there.

[Metalmicky]

Privatisation of bus services has been an absolute disaster, in terms of buses being run as a public service.

I moved to Sheffield 24 years ago. I live about 2 miles out of the city centre, in a very densely populated area.  When i moved here there were 14 buses an hour in the rush hour from the end of our road to the city centre. They were always packed. Single fare was 65p.

Today there are 4 buses an hour. They often go past stops in the morning because they are full. If I have a vital train to catch, I'll generally leave the house an hour before the train is due, to allow for missed or full buses. For a journey of 2 miles in what is probably one of the top 50 cities by size in Western Europe. The single fare is £2.

So that's an average annual increase in fares of 4.8%, over a period when inflation has typically been around 2% and a reduction in service of 70%. Shocking way to run a vital service.

And the consequence is that with the additional cars on the road, roads that used to be reasonably clear of traffic are now regularly backed up way over a mile from the city centre in rush hour.

2 miles..... not sure why you wouldn't walk - especially if you have a spare hour...? 

[Donnywolf]

We used to have a bus service through the village that ran 4 times a day twice between 7 and 9 in the morning and twice between 4 and 6 in the evening, obviously designed for Nottingham city workers. It was packed on each run. For some mysterious reason, which we never got to know about, it was axed, the nearest bus stop now is and was then at the top of the village meaning a 20mins walk each way for those at the lower end of the village . What did the commuters do? Walk, not a chance out came the cars and they all drive to the park and ride now and get the tram, that's if they can find a parking space at the PandR. The bus service at the top of the village runs every 20mins all day and is empty most of the time but is obviously subsidised.
Now tell me the sense and logic in that?

I can't understand it either - why didn't they just drive to the top of the village and get the bus from there.... no logic or sense there.

We used to have a bus service through the village that ran 4 times a day twice between 7 and 9 in the morning and twice between 4 and 6 in the evening, obviously designed for Nottingham city workers. It was packed on each run. For some mysterious reason, which we never got to know about, it was axed, the nearest bus stop now is and was then at the top of the village meaning a 20mins walk each way for those at the lower end of the village . What did the commuters do? Walk, not a chance out came the cars and they all drive to the park and ride now and get the tram, that's if they can find a parking space at the PandR. The bus service at the top of the village runs every 20mins all day and is empty most of the time but is obviously subsidised.
Now tell me the sense and logic in that?

I can't understand it either - why didn't they just drive to the top of the village and get the bus from there.... no logic or sense there.

Car security maybe - if they are in a place where they can be accessed at leisure ? Also parking might be tight up there

Pity someone decided [when I was a lad" that mass transport systems had "had their day" Sheffield Leeds etc had extensive inexspesive Tram networks while even we had the Trolley bus aka Tracklesses covering vast swathes of the Town

All went and it was a bad move as I never fail to think when I go to Budapest or Prague . Sheffield even Supertram seems great but imagine how great if the system was 10 or 20 times bigger

[ravenrover]

Or simply no where to park except the pub car park, you can imagine the response that gets from the pub landlord!

[selby]

  Yes RR sell monthly parking passes like one  landlord I know in Leeds. Does vey well out of it.

[BillyStubbsTears]

Privatisation of bus services has been an absolute disaster, in terms of buses being run as a public service.

I moved to Sheffield 24 years ago. I live about 2 miles out of the city centre, in a very densely populated area.  When i moved here there were 14 buses an hour in the rush hour from the end of our road to the city centre. They were always packed. Single fare was 65p.

Today there are 4 buses an hour. They often go past stops in the morning because they are full. If I have a vital train to catch, I'll generally leave the house an hour before the train is due, to allow for missed or full buses. For a journey of 2 miles in what is probably one of the top 50 cities by size in Western Europe. The single fare is £2.

So that's an average annual increase in fares of 4.8%, over a period when inflation has typically been around 2% and a reduction in service of 70%. Shocking way to run a vital service.

And the consequence is that with the additional cars on the road, roads that used to be reasonably clear of traffic are now regularly backed up way over a mile from the city centre in rush hour.

2 miles..... not sure why you wouldn't walk - especially if you have a spare hour...? 

I usually do walk into town to the office. A bit less easy to tramp 2 miles if I'm going away for work with a suitcase, a brief case and a laptop.

Not really the point though is it?

[drfchound]

Privatisation of bus services has been an absolute disaster, in terms of buses being run as a public service.

I moved to Sheffield 24 years ago. I live about 2 miles out of the city centre, in a very densely populated area.  When i moved here there were 14 buses an hour in the rush hour from the end of our road to the city centre. They were always packed. Single fare was 65p.

Today there are 4 buses an hour. They often go past stops in the morning because they are full. If I have a vital train to catch, I'll generally leave the house an hour before the train is due, to allow for missed or full buses. For a journey of 2 miles in what is probably one of the top 50 cities by size in Western Europe. The single fare is £2.

So that's an average annual increase in fares of 4.8%, over a period when inflation has typically been around 2% and a reduction in service of 70%. Shocking way to run a vital service.

And the consequence is that with the additional cars on the road, roads that used to be reasonably clear of traffic are now regularly backed up way over a mile from the city centre in rush hour.

2 miles..... not sure why you wouldn't walk - especially if you have a spare hour...? 

I usually do walk into town to the office. A bit less easy to tramp 2 miles if I'm going away for work with a suitcase, a brief case and a laptop.

Not really the point though is it?

Think of it as a work out.