The Climate Crisis

[albie]

RD,

It depends on your location, and the incentives in place to support each option.

For a general summary;
https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

Battery costs are falling at a rapid pace, and are likely to continue to drop in the mid term.
A supply bottleneck could arise if raw materials are constrained, but much of the research is looking at replacing the expensive elements in the battery chemistry.

Edit;
The gas boiler ban applies to new build from 2025.
Bozo announced 2023, and then backtracked.
It may change again, you never know with Bozo.

[drfchound]

Speaking of u turns, I saw today that Merkel has done one in Germany with regards to the Easter holidays.

[albie]

The small modular nuclear option seems to me to only produce high cost electricity with all the downsides of conventional nuclear.

There is a review of the difficulties here;
https://climatenewsnetwork.net/small-nuclear-power-plants-no-use-in-climate-crisis/

This is how vested interests operate in a situation where the political process is captured by incumbents.
Public money is diverted into sidelines that divert from the main objective by the most efficient means, because the established players make a margin on the status quo.

Nuclear does offer low carbon electricity, but at a significant extra cost to providing the capacity via renewables.
The Our World in Data linked I gave above sets this out. The cost per unit of energy is way above that from solar or wind.

As with Hinckley Point, the price of electricity has to be guaranteed by government at a level above market rates.
This means a premium on sales, and customers carry the tab for years.

What happens to those industries whose energy costs will make them uncompetitive at those rates?

[SydneyRover]

Stopping corporate donations to political parties would solve most of the problems.

[Metalmicky]

I don't know why solar panels aren't fitted as standard on every new build that goes up - seems like a cost effective way of generating renewable energy without having to put turbines up or use  the small modular nuclear option mentioned above. 

We bought my panels in mid 2015 and qualified for FiT (Feed in Tariff) payments - renamed SEG (Smart Export Guarantee) payments in 2020.  The initial outlay was £5,200, but we have recouped well over half of that already in FiT/SEG payments alone - about £2,900.  The solar panel company stated that it would take approximately 9-10 years to break even - so this is on par. 

We also save between £20-40 a month on our electricity bills by using the energy created by the solar panels at home - obviously saving less in winter and more summer - we both work, so don't perhaps make the best of the benefits by using more of our produced electricity during the day.  However, even taking the lower figure as a benchmark, we will have saved in excess of £1.3k on top of the SEG payments.  The good thing about this (for us) is that we will continue to receive SEG payments for the next 14 years, and also save on our energy bills beyond this point - I've been told they panels still generate electricity for 25-30 years...

It seems madness not to incorporate these into every new build going forward - I know that FiT/SEG payments are no longer, but there are savings to be made.... both to bills and the environment.
 

[normal rules]

It may not be directly linked to climate change, but regarding water, I’ve never understood why new builds boat have underground water collection tanks fitted in gardens. We have a well from 1930 that’s was built with the house. It collects all the rain water off the house and has an overflow into a 1metre cubed soak away, that we added as a precaution. I use the water to clean the car (no streaks left) and to water the garden. At a time when We should conserve water, it amazes me new houses don’t have this factored in.

[Bentley Bullet]

I've heard that in order to eradicate the water shortage problem, Kier Starmer has suggested diluting it.

[normal rules]

I've heard that in order to eradicate the water shortage problem, Kier Starmer has suggested diluting it.

Perhaps the funniest thing I’ve read on here for a while.

[River Don]

So, it turns out it's not only Western US and Canada experiencing truly extraordinary temperatures again this summer..

Siberia is again too.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/14/siberia-wildfires-russia-army-planes-and-thousands-of-firefighters-battle-blazes

Temperatures 8-10 degrees hotter than the norm. That's not just an usually hot summer. That's really extreme.

And its all happening at the same time as the American North.

I think we're cooked.

[ravenrover]

I wonder how many mammoth remains will be uncovered the Palaeontologists will be swarming all over them. You never know what else might get uncovered

[River Don]

More bad news.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/amazon-rainforest-now-emitting-more-co2-than-it-absorbs

But then, everywhere you look things are going in the wrong direction.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

It is a serious trend in Brazil and western countries should be clear they will not accept imports from there.

[SydneyRover]

It's a serious trend all around the world, it's hard for the western world to lecture others when we are not pulling our weight.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Who is responsible for that all of us or governments? Should governments force us to change our ways?  The UK government has a fairly ambitious programme but it's still too slow.

As an example my new car is taking months and months to be built as they can't get certain parts.  That will hold up the transition from fossil fuel vehicles and it needs to be stronger.

[SydneyRover]

Who is responsible for that all of us or governments? Should governments force us to change our ways?  The UK government has a fairly ambitious programme but it's still too slow.

As an example my new car is taking months and months to be built as they can't get certain parts.  That will hold up the transition from fossil fuel vehicles and it needs to be stronger.

It's a governments job to make the correct decisions for the country, the US and now Europe are changing and will probably introduce tariffs on those countries not having credible greenhouse gas reduction targets. In Australia this will mean a change of lifestyle for many if the government doesn't change and be quick about it. It's a coalition with a conservative liberal party and a right wing national party where the tail wags the dog. All three major parties including labor take millions in donations from fossil fuel companies and so the status quo continues of doing very little.

[River Don]

The German floods.

Another extreme weather event that has surpassed scientists expectations.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/16/climate-scientists-shocked-by-scale-of-floods-in-germany

Things seem to be moving faster than expected.

Some experts fear the recent jolts indicate the climate system may have crossed a dangerous threshold. Instead of smoothly rising temperatures and steadily increasing extremes, they are examining whether the trend may be increasingly “nonlinear” or bumpy as a result of knock-on effects from drought or ice melt in the Arctic. This theory is contentious, but recent events have prompted more discussion about this possibility and the reliability of models based on past observations.[i/]

[BillyStubbsTears]

The German floods look utterly horrific. I was in Bad Neuenahr a couple of years ago. Lovely little Rhineland town hugging the Ahr river. It looks devastated today. 80 dead and 1300 missing.

[SydneyRover]

''What does the EU’s carbon tariff proposal mean for Australia?
Trade minister calls the carbon border adjustment mechanism ‘a new form of protectionism’, but experts warn we must prepare''

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-carbon-tariff-proposal-mean-for-australia

Bring it on, do it now ................. force governments sitting on their hands to do something.

[Metalmicky]

Floods have been bad in a few of my old stamping grounds - Valkenburg and Roermond in the Limburg region both under water... after the Meuse burst it's banks... so terrible.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

''What does the EU’s carbon tariff proposal mean for Australia?
Trade minister calls the carbon border adjustment mechanism ‘a new form of protectionism’, but experts warn we must prepare''

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/15/what-does-the-eus-carbon-tariff-proposal-mean-for-australia

Bring it on, do it now ................. force governments sitting on their hands to do something.

This is really interesting and the detail might be quite important. Inevitably the cost will pass to the purchaser so in effect there's a double taxation potentially unless producers receive a rebate.  For example, iron purchased from Australia incurs a tax for carbon, how does that impact upon a steel producer in terms of their carbon credit position?

Also in this circumstance does it lead to a change in approach on say China?  With their cheap steel how does the EU plan to ensure it doesn't just move the issue elsewhere.  The detail must be very complex as surely it impacts on the UK trade deal too?

Worth adding that finding the balance between these things is the greatest challenge our generation faces.  We need to find a way to prevent natural disasters.

[Metalmicky]

Apparently the Germans had fair warning that the floods coming......

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f8f10926-e71b-11eb-8a8d-0766fc17d1b5?shareToken=a71c5419e6f768b7c2dc88da3e0cddcf#

[Campsall rover]

This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told.  We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.

Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.

hound don’t hold your breath on HS2.  They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.

Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. 

[drfchound]

This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told.  We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.

Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.

hound don’t hold your breath on HS2.  They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.

Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. 

Funny that you should mention HS2 Campsall.
Only the other day I was reading a couple of posts on the forum in which prominent Labour supporting contributors were slamming the government for not doing enough to level up the great North South divide sufficiently.
They must have conveniently forgotten that the Torys had decided to press on with HS2 which will of course make a massive difference to the levelling up programme.

[albie]

HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is  evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.

If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.

[drfchound]

HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is  evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.

If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.

Exactly albie, which I why I have been surprised by one poster in particular who says that HS2 is a must despite him saying that there isn’t enough investment in the North.

[SydneyRover]

HS2 will draw economic activity from the weaker to the stronger region, in this case London.
There is  evidence of this from other infrastructure developments.

If you want to boost economic activity in the north, you provide the development there, not reducing journey times to the magnet in the south.

You just sell one-way tickets albie

[normal rules]

I see for the first time ever the met office has issued an extreme heat weather warning for parts of the uk this week.

[SydneyRover]

This virus has had some positive effects on the global climate.
I can only give an example of this very close to home. My wife works for the local council in children’s services. She used to drive around the county clocking up circa 700 miles a month. Since lockdown she has worked form home and conducted meetings with families and other professionals online. She has been told in no un certain terms that her working life is likely to never return to how it used to be. This is the same story across many areas of Lincolnshire County Council staff we are told.  We have got rid of a car going down to being a single car family. I don’t know the exact carbon reduction in this , but it must be significant . She has worked form home for a whole year now so that’s about 8500 miles less travelled in a two litre diesel car. That’s about 1700 kg of co2.

Probably that scenario will apply to loads of people NR.
Even as a retired person, my mileage last year was only 60% of what I usually do and my wife’s car only did 1000 miles instead of the usual 4000.
Lots of businesses have latched on to the fact that they won’t need as many people to go into the office and staff will continue to work from home.
Will we even need to continue with the HS2 project when the last year has shown how business meetings can be done on zoom.

hound don’t hold your breath on HS2.  They seem hell bent on going ahead and wasting ridiculous sums of money on this crazy project.
No it is not required and this money would be so much better spent on modernising the existing rail network across the north of England. That would possibly have a significant effect on the “levelling up “ this government keep talking about but seem incapable of actually carrying it out.

Sydney please read this post. I have just criticised the government. Please take notes. 

I have it all written down, don't you worry bout that, but if modernising the existing system would be better why didn't they do that? what did the scoping study show, they did do one?

[normal rules]

And if anyone wants a sobering read, check out what Holocene Extinction is. It’s been happening for some time, thousands of years in fact. But the extinction rate is accelerating exponentially.

In The Future of Life (2002), Edward Osborne Wilson of Harvard calculated that, if the current rate of human disruption of the biosphere continues, one-half of Earth's higher lifeforms will be extinct by 2100.

[River Don]

I see for the first time ever the met office has issued an extreme heat weather warning for parts of the uk this week.

I'm not sure it's quite as significant as it seems. I think it's a new rating. We've experienced these conditions before but they weren't officially calling it an extreme heat event.

It does look like it's going to be baking hot though, the weatherman said there could be damage to infrastructure. I suppose that means melting road surfaces and suchlike.