MPs pay award

[ravenrover]

I have just come across an article on Sky news, MPs are to receive a £2,200  pay award from April for dramatically increased duties !!!
Sir Keir Starmer says that all parliamentarians should be saying "that we don't need that pay rise and it shouldn't go ahead" this year.

[BobG]

I'd pay em a helluva lot more. A helluva lot. But there'd be no external jobs. None. Nada. Zilch.

BobG

[scawsby steve]

If they were paid according to attendance in the HOC, most of them would be getting hardly anything.

PMQs on Wednesdays is about it for some of them.

[Glyn_Wigley]

Their pay increase ought to be tied and be the same as the percentage increase in benefits.

[BillyStubbsTears]

If they were paid according to attendance in the HOC, most of them would be getting hardly anything.

PMQs on Wednesdays is about it for some of them.

There's far, far more to an MP's job than attending debates in the Chamber. Most of them work phenomenal hours.

[Colemans Left Hook]

If they were paid according to attendance in the HOC, most of them would be getting hardly anything.

PMQs on Wednesdays is about it for some of them.

There's far, far more to an MP's job than attending debates in the Chamber. Most of them work phenomenal hours.

They are not the only ones it's 4.38 a.m.

[roverstillidie91]

Not enough money for a pay rise for public sector workers though

I bet this will make the front page of the sun, daily mail, daily express...

[wilts rover]

MP's are among the top 10% of UK earners. Since 2010 their pay has RISEN 30%. They also have unlimited expenses including having their utility bills paid.

Since 2010 public sector workers pay has FALLEN 6%. Many are struggling with the cost of living and massive utility price rises.

Since 2010 who has been of more value to the country?

[danumdon]

For MP’s to get their pay rise they have to vote on it, guess which ones voted for it, yes that’s right, the vast majority of them from all sides.

I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required. This should disqualify a good portion in parliament to br replaced by people with some lived experiences, it’s not an age thing more to do with attitude.

If we could have a general reset in this country we should seriously consider a viable method of PR, I’ve changed my mind on this as the alternatives in front of us are extreme and been proven to be unworkable. I would now consider a vote for a party who could get this into statute.

And yes I would pay the resulting parliament more for a good and professional intake, because by god we need this.

[roverstillidie91]

For MP’s to get their pay rise they have to vote on it, guess which ones voted for it, yes that’s right, the vast majority of them from all sides.

I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required. This should disqualify a good portion in parliament to br replaced by people with some lived experiences, it’s not an age thing more to do with attitude.

If we could have a general reset in this country we should seriously consider a viable method of PR, I’ve changed my mind on this as the alternatives in front of us are extreme and been proven to be unworkable. I would now consider a vote for a party who could get this into statute.

And yes I would pay the resulting parliament more for a good and professional intake, because by god we need this.

I've never understood in terms of the requirements for top positions in government.

I believe if as a minister you are in Education, Transport, Defence, Business that you should have some form of experience in that field but it doesn't appear that way.

How many MP's have now covered multiple departments in government now? Namely Grant Shapps, or his other aliases whatever they are

[BillyStubbsTears]

For MP’s to get their pay rise they have to vote on it, guess which ones voted for it, yes that’s right, the vast majority of them from all sides.

I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required. This should disqualify a good portion in parliament to br replaced by people with some lived experiences, it’s not an age thing more to do with attitude.

If we could have a general reset in this country we should seriously consider a viable method of PR, I’ve changed my mind on this as the alternatives in front of us are extreme and been proven to be unworkable. I would now consider a vote for a party who could get this into statute.

And yes I would pay the resulting parliament more for a good and professional intake, because by god we need this.

DD.

Back 200 years ago, we had precisely the situation you're craving. Only men allowed to be MPs. A requirement for them to own a certain amount of land, to debar those who weren't fully committed to the nation.

Now, I wasn't alive then, but from what I read, I'm not sure that panned out right well for people of your social standing. 

[danumdon]

For MP’s to get their pay rise they have to vote on it, guess which ones voted for it, yes that’s right, the vast majority of them from all sides.

I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required. This should disqualify a good portion in parliament to br replaced by people with some lived experiences, it’s not an age thing more to do with attitude.

If we could have a general reset in this country we should seriously consider a viable method of PR, I’ve changed my mind on this as the alternatives in front of us are extreme and been proven to be unworkable. I would now consider a vote for a party who could get this into statute.

And yes I would pay the resulting parliament more for a good and professional intake, because by god we need this.

DD.

Back 200 years ago, we had precisely the situation you're craving. Only men allowed to be MPs. A requirement for them to own a certain amount of land, to debar those who weren't fully committed to the nation.

Now, I wasn't alive then, but from what I read, I'm not sure that panned out right well for people of your social standing. 

Completely taken out of context as usual to make some point or another that was never there!

How you can make out from the post that its, "precisely the situation I'm craving" is a ridiculous thing to say. You know full well when i talk about some level of competency i meant members having some grasp of real world lives as in the people they will be expected to represent, not a job for raving ideology led inexperienced collage leavers who have never had to provide for themselves never mind a family.

We need the best people and minds in the country to extract us from abject failure, not people who want to do it as a sideline to their main occupation, pay them correctly to get the right people.

[BillyStubbsTears]

DD.

Why do you think they had the landowner requirement, if it wasn't to prove some level?

Who specifically would YOU exclude and allow as MPs?

[danumdon]

DD.

Why do you think they had the landowner requirement, if it wasn't to prove some level?

Who specifically would YOU exclude and allow as MPs?

Give your head a shake BST for goodness sake. Stop diving down rabbit holes.

[SydneyRover]

dd:

''I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required''

''Nadia Edith Whittome[1] (born 29 August 1996)[2] is the Member of Parliament (MP) for Nottingham East first so elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election. A member of the Labour Party, she was elected at the age of 23, and became the youngest MP. She is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group and describes herself as a democratic socialist''

''Following her election, she said that she would keep what she termed "a worker's wage" of £35,000 (after tax), and would donate the remainder of her £79,468 salary as an MP to local charities.[6][21] Whittome initially supported Clive Lewis in the 2020 Labour Party leadership election but when Lewis withdrew, nominated Emily Thornberry.[22][23][24] On 28 February 2020, Whittome announced that she would be voting for Rebecca Long-Baile''y for leader and Dawn Butler for deputy.[25]

I wonder how many activists fresh out of uni get to be mps for any party?

If there are any, how many of those would get to be ministers?

There are 650 mps in the commons, how many of these fit your criteria quoted above dd?

[danumdon]

dd:

''I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required''

''Nadia Edith Whittome[1] (born 29 August 1996)[2] is the Member of Parliament (MP) for Nottingham East first so elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election. A member of the Labour Party, she was elected at the age of 23, and became the youngest MP. She is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group and describes herself as a democratic socialist''

''Following her election, she said that she would keep what she termed "a worker's wage" of £35,000 (after tax), and would donate the remainder of her £79,468 salary as an MP to local charities.[6][21] Whittome initially supported Clive Lewis in the 2020 Labour Party leadership election but when Lewis withdrew, nominated Emily Thornberry.[22][23][24] On 28 February 2020, Whittome announced that she would be voting for Rebecca Long-Baile''y for leader and Dawn Butler for deputy.[25]

I wonder how many activists fresh out of uni get to be mps for any party?

If there are any, how many of those would get to be ministers?

There are 650 mps in the commons, how many of these fit your criteria quoted above dd?

She also attended Bilborough Sixth Form College, sitting two A Levels. She went on to complete an access course at Nottingham College.[6] She began study for a law degree at Nottingham University but did not complete it. She was later employed as a crime project worker and a carer.[6][5][8] She has lived in The Meadows, Top Valley, and West Bridgford areas of Nottingham.[9]

Whittome says she became interested in politics in 2013 due to the effects of the "Bedroom tax" and austerity on her local community.[7][10] She worked in the constituency office of the Member of Parliament (MP) for North West Durham, Pat Glass, Shadow Minister of State for Europe, during the 2016 European Union referendum campaign.

Whittome contested the 2017 Nottinghamshire County Council election as the Labour candidate for the West Bridgford West ward, coming second.[1][11] Before her election, she was a national committee member of the pro-Remain organisations Another Europe Is Possible and Labour for a Socialist Europe

Whittome identifies as queer.[39] She speaks fluent French and German.[40][41] In May 2021, Whittome announced that she had been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and would be taking a leave of absence. On 6 September 2021, she returned to her duties in the House of Commons.[42] She is a vegan.[43] Whittome has described herself as a baptised Catholic who does not follow any religion, and has affirmed rather than taking an oath of office.


She sounds like the living reincarnation of everything i said.

Will this young lady have had experience of dealing with people from all levels of society, would she have some sort of business acumen like having run a successful business or held a senior position in a successful business. Would she have had enough life experiences to be able to give counselling and advice to distressed constituents, would she be considered a rounded individual who could deal  with extremists and megalomaniacs equally.

Sounds to me like she's been involved in politics from a very young age, left school with 2 A levels and failed to complete a law degree, completed an "open access course" worked as a crime project worker and a carer. worked in the back office of a MP, had to have time off for PTSD whilst in office?

Is this is typical of the type of person we now employ as an MP then i don't think we will be successful in getting to the bottom of our nations issues.

I would rather have people who have been qualified teachers, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and business owners and senior managers, people who have been there, had experience in owning or running successful organisations and know the difference in winning and loosing. if we could have people like this who were prepared to set aside their previous careers and give their full and unbridled commitment to being an Mp for an interim period then we may manage to get ourselves out of this awful mess we have made of running this country.

[SydneyRover]

dd:

''I’ve said it before, there should be some sort of qualifying criteria for the job. Fresh out of uni  smart ass activists of all persuasions with a pathological dislike for anyone who has a different outlook on life in general is not required''

''Nadia Edith Whittome[1] (born 29 August 1996)[2] is the Member of Parliament (MP) for Nottingham East first so elected in the 2019 United Kingdom general election. A member of the Labour Party, she was elected at the age of 23, and became the youngest MP. She is a member of the Socialist Campaign Group and describes herself as a democratic socialist''

''Following her election, she said that she would keep what she termed "a worker's wage" of £35,000 (after tax), and would donate the remainder of her £79,468 salary as an MP to local charities.[6][21] Whittome initially supported Clive Lewis in the 2020 Labour Party leadership election but when Lewis withdrew, nominated Emily Thornberry.[22][23][24] On 28 February 2020, Whittome announced that she would be voting for Rebecca Long-Baile''y for leader and Dawn Butler for deputy.[25]

I wonder how many activists fresh out of uni get to be mps for any party?

If there are any, how many of those would get to be ministers?

There are 650 mps in the commons, how many of these fit your criteria quoted above dd?

She also attended Bilborough Sixth Form College, sitting two A Levels. She went on to complete an access course at Nottingham College.[6] She began study for a law degree at Nottingham University but did not complete it. She was later employed as a crime project worker and a carer.[6][5][8] She has lived in The Meadows, Top Valley, and West Bridgford areas of Nottingham.[9]

Whittome says she became interested in politics in 2013 due to the effects of the "Bedroom tax" and austerity on her local community.[7][10] She worked in the constituency office of the Member of Parliament (MP) for North West Durham, Pat Glass, Shadow Minister of State for Europe, during the 2016 European Union referendum campaign.

Whittome contested the 2017 Nottinghamshire County Council election as the Labour candidate for the West Bridgford West ward, coming second.[1][11] Before her election, she was a national committee member of the pro-Remain organisations Another Europe Is Possible and Labour for a Socialist Europe

Whittome identifies as queer.[39] She speaks fluent French and German.[40][41] In May 2021, Whittome announced that she had been suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and would be taking a leave of absence. On 6 September 2021, she returned to her duties in the House of Commons.[42] She is a vegan.[43] Whittome has described herself as a baptised Catholic who does not follow any religion, and has affirmed rather than taking an oath of office.


She sounds like the living reincarnation of everything i said.

Will this young lady have had experience of dealing with people from all levels of society, would she have some sort of business acumen like having run a successful business or held a senior position in a successful business. Would she have had enough life experiences to be able to give counselling and advice to distressed constituents, would she be considered a rounded individual who could deal  with extremists and megalomaniacs equally.

Sounds to me like she's been involved in politics from a very young age, left school with 2 A levels and failed to complete a law degree, completed an "open access course" worked as a crime project worker and a carer. worked in the back office of a MP, had to have time off for PTSD whilst in office?

Is this is typical of the type of person we now employ as an MP then i don't think we will be successful in getting to the bottom of our nations issues.

I would rather have people who have been qualified teachers, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs and business owners and senior managers, people who have been there, had experience in owning or running successful organisations and know the difference in winning and loosing. if we could have people like this who were prepared to set aside their previous careers and give their full and unbridled commitment to being an Mp for an interim period then we may manage to get ourselves out of this awful mess we have made of running this country.

''There are 650 mps in the commons, how many of these fit your criteria quoted above dd?''

How many of those MPs would have to fit your criteria to make your statement reasonable, 10%, more?

That is what you appear to be suggesting that there are a number of those MPs influencing parliament and legislation not to your liking.

Nadia Edith Whittome was democratically elected so you are out of step with those in her constituency that elected her.

Put some facts on the table dd.

You could also state what you are doing about the problem that so vexes you.

PS, any chance you could put your reply in a zip file?

[albie]

Discussion about the pay award misses the elephant in the room.......donations from sponsors keen to see their interests promoted.

All parties are implicated in this scam, and there are serious questions about the integrity of those who accept funding from companies and individuals whose activities they control.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/mps-staff-offices-donations-million-business-bosses-gambling-climate-sceptics/

Ethical considerations do not seem very prominent to those caught up in this web of compromise.

[SydneyRover]

No major party is going to vote for that holus bolus so a graduated approach may have more success.

NSW

''Examples of prohibited donors
A prohibited donor is:

a property developer

a tobacco industry business entity

a liquor or gambling industry business entity

any industry representative organisation if the majority of its members are such prohibited donors

a close associate of a prohibited donor''

https://elections.nsw.gov.au/funding-and-disclosure/political-donations/unlawful-political-donations/prohibited-donors#:~:text=A%20prohibited%20donor%20is%3A,or%20gambling%20industry%20business%20entity

''The ACT Government has reduced the risk of corrupt conduct in the electoral system by banning property developer donations to local political parties and candidates in the ACT''

https://www.cmtedd.act.gov.au/open_government/inform/act_government_media_releases/gordon-ramsay-mla-media-releases/2020/property-developer-donations-to-political-parties-banned-in-the-act#:~:text=Property%20developer%20donations%20to%20political%20parties%20banned%20in%20the%20ACT,-Released%2027%2F08&text=The%20ACT%20Government%20has%20reduced,and%20candidates%20in%20the%20ACT.

[BobG]

Now that, Sydney, is something that everybody, of every political persuasion, can  and should support. Well done Aussies.

BobG

[SydneyRover]

What also has been successful in the fight against corruption are the various forms of ICAC (Independent Commission against Corruption) in states around the country all of course with variations on how they operate. These are standing bodies. (the lib/nats reduced funding NSW but it didn't stop the premier last year being caught up in a secondary investigation and resigning, this case is ongoing)

Recently elected federal Labor whom missed the chance the previous time in office (Lib/Nat coalition refusing to do so in their tenure) have finally passed this:

The Australian Government committed to legislating a powerful, transparent and independent National Anti-Corruption Commission by the end of 2022.

https://www.ag.gov.au/integrity/anti-corruption/national-anti-corruption-commission-legislation

3 NSW premiers have fallen on their swords plus a number of other ministers and MPs have gone also with some prosecuted and jailed since the legislation was enacted in 2009.

This is the NSW ICAC and worth a peek.

https://www.icac.nsw.gov.au/

[BobG]

I am re reading 'The Mask of Apollo'. Mary Renault. One of my very, very favourite writers. I have just read a line that, in present circumstances, struck like a thunderclap. Dion, a prince of Syracuse, says

"A city is only a crowd of citizens. If each of them has renounced his private virtue, how can they build a public good?"

That should be writ large. Very large. To politicians everywhere.

BobG

PS. I have struggled, and am now about to fail, to avoid saying, 'it should be writ very large. On the side of a bus...

PPS. Later. Mrs Thatcher comes to mind here too. When she said words on the lines of “there is no such thing as society, only groups of individuals” she was speaking in the context of the benefits system. I agree that there are those who take the piss out of the benefits system. But recent Conservative governments have taken the biggest piss out of it. Especially when you put benefits cheats alongside what amounts to legalised middle class tax fraud - tax avoidance schemes put in place by those self same governments solely to prolong their time in government. Some of the tax avoidance devices dreamt up by these governments would make your hair curl.

Without private virtue there really cannot be any public good.

[BobG]

And given that most people who claim benefits, other than state pension, are actually in work, who is the real beneficiary? The companies who don’t pay a living wage and the middle class shareholders who take the resulting dividends and tax perks!

 “What makes you think human beings are sentient and aware? There's no evidence for it. Human beings never think for themselves, they find it too uncomfortable. For the most part, members of our species simply repeat what they are told-and become upset if they are exposed to any different view. The characteristic human trait is not awareness but conformity, and the characteristic result is religious warfare. Other animals fight for territory or food; but, uniquely in the animal kingdom, human beings fight for their 'beliefs.' The reason is that beliefs guide behavior which has evolutionary importance among human beings. But at a time when our behavior may well lead us to extinction, I see no reason to assume we have any awareness at all. We are stubborn, self-destructive conformists. Any other view of our species is just a self-congratulatory delusion. Next question.” ~Michael Crichton

BobG

[Ldr]

Businesses should not be allowed to donate to mps, nor should unions. Parties should get set funding centrally and nothing else

[drfchound]

Businesses should not be allowed to donate to mps, nor should unions. Parties should get set funding centrally and nothing else

Would the people who grumble about businesses donating to the Tory Party accept that any Union donations to the Labour Party be stopped.

[Ldr]

Businesses should not be allowed to donate to mps, nor should unions. Parties should get set funding centrally and nothing else

Would the people who grumble about businesses donating to the Tory Party accept that any Union donations to the Labour Party be stopped.

Be hypocritical about if they did, it’s all money for influence

[wilts rover]

Of the 650 MP's elected in 2019, 21 are under 30. 316 are over 50 with 21 over 70.

Yet it is the elegibilty of the ones under 30 (who represent 10 million people, all of working age) rather than the ones over 70 (around 6 million people, only a small percentage of which will be working) that people question. Strange?

Nadia Whittome was a care worker before she became an MP. A job she returned to, as a volunteer, during the pandemic in order to help out:

When I returned to work during the pandemic, I had to retrain. My day would look like: getting up at 5, making notes in handover, administering medication, dealing with someone who had a fall, hoisting someone almost twice my size, being alert to small changes that could indicate a more serious medical problem, trying my best in 15 minutes to brighten someone’s day and make them feel valued, knowing that I would probably be the only person they see that day, all whilst meticulously recording everything that happened on every call.

https://nadiawhittome.org/blog/nadia-whittome-defends-migrant-workers-in-immigration-bill-speech/

Or maybe some people don't think care workers are 'proper workers'? Unlike several Tory MP's, including Johnson, whose only 'work' was a journalist or researcher for a right-wing 'think tank?

[SydneyRover]

This sort of fits in with MPs pay ....... and rewards, it is a question looking for an important answer.

I'm surprised that those that get news from morning tv haven't posted it. I found it following an article in the Guardian'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARjDXjs3SJQ

The question posed shouldn't be that difficult to answer.

[big fat yorkshire pudding]

Their pay increase ought to be tied and be the same as the percentage increase in benefits.

Not sure you'd actually agree with that this year.  MP's expected to get something like 2.9% increase.  Benefits are going up over 10% (which would be over 8k for MPs).

[SydneyRover]

Their pay increase ought to be tied and be the same as the percentage increase in benefits.

Not sure you'd actually agree with that this year.  MP's expected to get something like 2.9% increase.  Benefits are going up over 10% (which would be over 8k for MPs).

That is true but wouldn't they have already benefitted from all the other raises to MPs pay and therefore not be so far behind?